British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

its_phil

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

It is a hard call to make. The Lions captain will need to start every test so has to be nailed on for place in team. The last 2 captains have been Irish so I think Warburton could well be captain. He seems to have the attitude Gatland likes too. He doesnt drink either I believe.

Warburton is no where near guaranteed to start. And what's him not drinking got to do with anything? No one is guaranteed a test place and I think it's going to be a case of tour captain and test captain on the Lions from now on. The XV everyone chooses will have changed significantly by the first test and if your on the plane your in with a shout.

Gatland won't care if there has been two Irish captains before, who cares where they come from as long as they are a good leader.

Tigerandahalf

I dont think ODriscoll needs the captaincy. He just needs to stay fit and get his place in the team for without him at 13 you would worry about the Lions backline.

Buer

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Gray would be going as the loosehead second row, or the man to dominate the lineout. However his strengths are not in the lineout. He is typical of many flashy players who make swashbuckling runs thay catch the eye of fans. I would much prefer to take D Ryan. I dont think he has got credit here in Ireland for the great job he did in the lineout. Much of the failings in the lineout were down to Best's poor throwing. For me he has been Ire player of the championship. He also has been carrying a shoulder injury. I also think he uses his talents effectively, catching in the lineout and making tackles. Unlike Paul OConnell he doesnt take on ball which is sensible given he doesnt have the bulk.

AW Jones and Hines would be a very strong partnership.

Grey is a tighthead lock generally. AWJ and Hines both are primarily too so that won't be a combination.

Don't know how you could say Ryan did a great job at the line out. He's a line out specialist that stole zero in the whole tournament. He called plenty to himself and won a good number but had several pinched too that weren't due to the throw. Italy simply tracked him at the weekend and got up in front of him.

The guy that runs the lineout has to shoulder a chunk of blame when a team has the worst line out in the tournament. It was disappointing because he's a better player than that and far more dynamic in the loose than he showed. The lack of bulk is precisely what made him such an effective carrier around the park, popping up in midfield and powering through.

Tigerandahalf

The Irish dont have a defensive lineout fullstop. We seem happy to give the opposition the ball. Ryan had some ball stolen but not a surprise since there was nobody else to throw it to other than POM, especially once it went beyond two in the lineout. I feel his hands are excellent. He has taken some excellent ball in wet conditions.
However the Lions are likely to target the Aussie scrum so playing too biggish second rows could be possible.
A tight five of Healy Best Jones Hines and Jones would pack a punch.

Buer

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The Irish dont have a defensive lineout fullstop. We seem happy to give the opposition the ball. Ryan had some ball stolen but not a surprise since there was nobody else to throw it to other than POM, especially once it went beyond two in the lineout. I feel his hands are excellent. He has taken some excellent ball in wet conditions.

We have a defensive line out. Ryan himself stole several throws in last season's tournament among others.

There seems to be a belief that we had no jumpers and that's why Ryan had to call ball on himself. That's not true. POM obviously is an excellent jumper. McCarthy is one of the top line out winners in this season's HEC. Heaslip has always been a very solid jumper (he won 11 throws in the 2012 6N). Even SOB is a solid enough option on his own ball and has been used plenty of times for Leinster and Ireland in the past.

Tox56

Interesting stats on the BBC's team of the tournament page, number of defenders beaten in this 6N:

Louis Picamoles (Fra) 15
Mathieu Bastareaud (Fra) 15
Rob Kearney (Ire) 14
George North (Wal) 14
Alex Cuthbert (Wal) 14

Strange to see Kearney there I must say. Thought he had a poor tournament (and by his standards he did), but he's right up there in that stat at least. The likes of Hogg and Fofana don't even feature on that list.

Paddywiggum

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Against the Head picked the following team
Sheehan's picks 1 to 5
Jenkins
Best
Jones
Hamilton
Jones

Quinlan picked 6 to 10
Robshaw
Warburton
OBrien
Phillips
Sexton

Thornley picked 11 to 15
North
Roberts
ODriscoll
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

Thornley picked Warburton as captain, Sheehan went for Jenkins while Quinlan went for Best.

Just watched this on RTE player.

4 Irish men in team. 1 English man.

Completely ridiculous.

Im sorry but if you flipped Ireland and England in the championship, and 3 BBC analysts had 4 English and 1 Irish in Team, we'd be hopping mad.

Unreal bias there.

Tox56

Paddywiggum wrote: »

Just watched this on RTE player.

4 Irish men in team. 1 English man.

Completely ridiculous.

Im sorry but if you flipped Ireland and England in the championship, and 3 BBC analysts had 4 English and 1 Irish in Team, we'd be hopping mad.

Unreal bias there.

Ok go on then, what English player should be in that team that isn't? Tuilagi maybe, possibly one of the second rows. 1 maybe 2 more. If anything I'd have Healy ahead of Jenkins or SOB ahead of Robshaw (can understand the latter but it's a tight call)

thomond2006

Paddywiggum wrote: »

Just watched this on RTE player.

4 Irish men in team. 1 English man.

Completely ridiculous.

Im sorry but if you flipped Ireland and England in the championship, and 3 BBC analysts had 4 English and 1 Irish in Team, we'd be hopping mad.

Unreal bias there.

What English players would you have in there yourself? It's easy to throw around accusations without offering an alternative view.

irishbucsfan

We won the Grand slam in 09 and had about 4 players in the team. Why? Because the number of players on the team should have nothing to do with how their national team performed, rather how good the players are.

Rightwing

JoeyDoh wrote: »

On that merit Warburton doesn't deserve it either. He was terrible at the beginning of the tournament.

That's a valid point. No player stands out like POC/BOD/MJ over the years as the obvious choice.

Rightwing

Paddywiggum wrote: »

Just watched this on RTE player.

4 Irish men in team. 1 English man.

Completely ridiculous.

Im sorry but if you flipped Ireland and England in the championship, and 3 BBC analysts had 4 English and 1 Irish in Team, we'd be hopping mad.

Unreal bias there.

I agree, they should maybe have 4. Scrum half is probably nailed down to be English.

H Cup will have a say though, the likes of POC, & Murray can fight for places yet.

Paddywiggum

Tox56 wrote: »

Ok go on then, what English player should be in that team that isn't? Tuilagi maybe, possibly one of the second rows. 1 maybe 2 more. If anything I'd have Healy ahead of Jenkins or SOB ahead of Robshaw (can understand the latter but it's a tight call)

thomond2006 wrote: »

What English players would you have in there yourself? It's easy to throw around accusations without offering an alternative view.

Id have Best and O'Brien on bench.

Replaced with Hibbard and Robshaw, back row reshuffled. Id have Tuilagi in 12 or at 13, o'driscoll at 12.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We won the Grand slam in 09 and had about 4 players in the team. Why? Because the number of players on the team should have nothing to do with how their national team performed, rather how good the players are.

I agree but it should go with form too.

However in reality we all know that politics plays big part in Lions selection. Look at the staff, all English and Welsh, team Doctor is Scottish. No Irish man in sight.

Now you could say they'll even it up by picking more Irish players. But id take the view theyve set their stall out and its going to be a predominantly Welsh/English squad. We'll get 5 and Scotland 3 is my prediction.

Also if Gatland doesnt go for O'Driscoll Capt. then it'll be a Welsh Capt.

Tigerandahalf

Politics and the business case will also play a part. A lot of Lions jerseys and travel packages have to be sold and that means a strong English presence.

The Guardian

Tipuric has to be no 7
warburton might yet squeeze himself into 6 tho

i'd have no issue with toby making up the backrow

o'brien might feature, maybe

best hasnt a hope a in hell
doubt he'll even travel tbh

ireland will have the following on the flight - healy, sexton, drico, kearney and o'brien
sexton will start without a doubt

that dope stephen jones had craig gilroy as a possibility

thomond2006

Paddywiggum wrote: »

However in reality we all know that politics plays big part in Lions selection. Look at the staff, all English and Welsh, team Doctor is Scottish. No Irish man in sight.

The team doctor has been there for many tours now, wouldn't read anything into that.

Would you have any of the Irish management on the coaching panel given the crap we serve up? I wouldn't. I'd say the call to leave out Edwards may have been a bit political alright though.

schools rugby

thomond2006 wrote: »

The team doctor has been there for many tours now, wouldn't read anything into that.

Would you have any of the Irish management on the coaching panel given the crap we serve up? I wouldn't. I'd say the call to leave out Edwards may have been a bit political alright though.

RALA is going so we will be grand

Teferi

Yep, Rala is the bagman.

thomond2006

schools rugby wrote: »

RALA is going so we will be grand

Teferi wrote: »

Yep, Rala is the bagman.

Is he? Good for him.

Fireball07

penybont exile wrote: »

I stopped reading this after the scrum-half selections.
How you do not pick Phillips is beyond me.
He is by far the best 9 in the NH.
Barring injury he will be the starting 9 for the first test.

Are you serious????


Phillips is one of the most overrated players in the NH, he's so so slow to get the ball away. His pass is average at its absolute best. Okay, he's good defensively, he's decent at carrying the ball but his kicking isn't overly great either. If he played for Ireland, he would be slaughtered, he's like Murray at his worst.


Parra is a different class to him, and so are Yachvili and Machenaud imo.

As for the Lions choices....both English ones are more effective scrum-halves, and Murray is a similar-type player, in better form, with a better pass and a better box-kick.

Dublin Red Devil

I would sellect my Halfback pair from the same country.

Sexton with Murray

Farrell with Youngs

Bigger with Philips

toomevara

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

I would sellect my Halfback pair from the same country.

Sexton with Murray

Farrell with Youngs

Bigger with Philips

I would love to see Sexton play with a running scrum half like Youngs or Philips who pose a genuine threat to defences and make them commit. Could really free up his game....We generally don't make them like that..I wouldn't discount Greig Laidlaw either. A classy player who, unfortunately for him tends to play behind beaten/plodding packs....

.ak

penybont exile wrote: »

I stopped reading this after the scrum-half selections.
How you do not pick Phillips is beyond me.
He is by far the best 9 in the NH.
Barring injury he will be the starting 9 for the first test.

In fairness Phillips will travel, but he had a fairly poor six nations (apart from the England game, where he stepped it up a gear when it counted, fair enough).

'by far the best 9 in NH' is a bold overstatement, and I think you've got your red tinted glasses on when typing that. All of the French SH's are better. Youngs is better too imo. Care has the potential of being better, but needs to put in a complete performance to change my mind.

jm08

toomevara wrote: »

I would love to see Sexton play with a running scrum half like Youngs or Philips who pose a genuine threat to defences and make them commit. Could really free up his game....We generally don't make them like that..I wouldn't discount Greig Laidlaw either. A classy player who, unfortunately for him tends to play behind beaten/plodding packs....

I can't see Sexton & Phillips working together. They are too alike in that they both like to control the game. Sexton is better with a scrumhalf he will be able to boss.

ajmcginnz

This is my starting 15 and i know it will be highly critisied especially because i am going to feature a couple of players that are injured.. And its bias to ireland.. But the mentioned players will be back in time for the lions.. and they are of such hight calibre i think they will prove themselves... They are superior in individual skill consistently rather than the in form players of a lackluster 6 nations. They will redeem themselves in the later stages of the heiniken cup. Here it is:


1. cian healy
2. Ross Ford
3. Adam jones
4. Richie gray
5. Courtney Lawes
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Chris Robshaw
8. Sean O'Brien
9. Mile phillips
10. Jonathan sexton
11. Tommy Bowe
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Rob Kearney

Some might criticise that the backline has too many irish.. But leinster have very slick backline moves which are going to come into play

P.Walnuts

ajmcginnz wrote: »

This is my starting 15 and i know it will be highly critisied especially because i am going to feature a couple of players that are injured.. And its bias to ireland.. But the mentioned players will be back in time for the lions.. and they are of such hight calibre i think they will prove themselves... They are superior in individual skill consistently rather than the in form players of a lackluster 6 nations. They will redeem themselves in the later stages of the heiniken cup. Here it is:


1. cian healy
2. Ross Ford
3. Adam jones
4. Richie gray
5. Courtney Lawes
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Chris Robshaw
8. Sean O'Brien
9. Mile phillips
10. Jonathan sexton
11. Tommy Bowe
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Rob Kearney

Some might criticise that the backline has too many irish.. But leinster have very slick backline moves which are going to come into play

Ferris won't be back in time
Bowe has a shot depending on form when he returns
Kearney is third choice FB now

Lawes won't travel

There is no way Gatland wont pick one of Tipuric, Warburton or Faleteau in the back row.

So overall yeah, that's a very unrealistic team imo.

sting60

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Healy
Best (has no competition)
Jones
Parling
Jones
OBrien
Tipuric
Faletau
Phillips
Sexton
Roberts
ODriscoll
North
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

Injuries likely to happen and could change things. Warburton could play 6 too. Lineout is weak with a small 6 so Tom Wood could be an option. Is he the guy that played in last lions or was it Croft? If it was Croft then him at 6 maybe.

Ireland had one of the worst stats per line outs won ever against Italy[poor throwing mainly] and you state Best has no competition.According to your selections Ireland won the Six Nations and not finish where they did.

ajmcginnz

You make a couple of valid points however, ferris is confident he will be back in april, kearney is the best fullback in the northern hemisphere. He didnt put a single bad performance in this six nations. All be it not a great one either but he still managed to shine through a pathetic ireland team couched by an idiot and even if gatland favours halfpenny which im sure he does, in the lions warm up games kearney will prove he is far superior and he has to go with the lions if he doesnt it would be ludacris.

Perhaps lawes wont travel but he should, incredible athlete. And the welsh backrow is glorified. Last year i definately would have put warburton over robshaw but now he doesnt deserve it. Tuperic had a couple a good performances but has always been a background player. He will be off the international stage soon. Maybe falatau should start over o'brien. To be honest o'brien is nothing like he used to be and is just a decent player. Not great anymore

CIARAN_BOYLE

ajmcginnz wrote: »

You make a couple of valid points however, ferris is confident he will be back in april, kearney is the best fullback in the northern hemisphere. He didnt put a single bad performance in this six nations. All be it not a great one either but he still managed to shine through a pathetic ireland team couched by an idiot and even if gatland favours halfpenny which im sure he does, in the lions warm up games kearney will prove he is far superior and he has to go with the lions if he doesnt it would be ludacris.

Was this since his most recent surgery in late February because if so great news.

Latest injury report I read was in early march and it said 3 months.

irishbucsfan

Ferris will be lucky to play before the end of the season. Doubt he'll be going on tour.