British and Irish Lions Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

I don't know about that - Gatland knew he played for Munster A last week.

“

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gatland-opens-door-for-oconnell-lions-return-226212.html

The most relevant part of what you quoted:

said the Lions coach when asked if it might be too late for the 2009 Lions captain to make the plane after five months out with injury.

We're talking about him being made captain here, not just touring

Tox56

trouttrout wrote: »

Mother of god, when was that taken? He's huge

Last Friday

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

The most relevant part of what you quoted:

We're talking about him being made captain here, not just touring

Podge made the point he (Gatland) wouldn't rate Rabo games. He does, because its mainly Rabo games that most those players will get to play over the next 6 weeks.

I don't get why there would be a difference in ability to just tour, but not captain the team - particularly of a guy who has captained a tour that Gatland coached the last time as forwards coach.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Podge made the point he (Gatland) wouldn't rate Rabo games. He does, because its mainly Rabo games that most those players will get to play over the next 6 weeks.

I don't get why there would be a difference in ability to just tour, but not captain the team - particularly of a guy who has captained a tour that Gatland coached the last time as forwards coach.

Are you seriously saying you cant see the difference in the scale of the problem you face in having to replace your captain pre/mid tour and replacing a normal touring player?

siochain

Foxtrol wrote: »

Are you seriously saying you cant see the difference in the scale of the problem you face in having to replace your captain pre/mid tour and replacing a normal touring player?

There will be vice captains nominated from the start, simples.

Foxtrol

siochain wrote: »

There will be vice captains nominated from the start, simples.

There are always vice captains/leaders in a side so that makes no difference to the point at issue. It would be an unnecessary gamble to pick a guy as captain that has had an atrocious recent injury record, especially as he isn't head an shoulders above other potential choices.

irishbucsfan

siochain wrote: »

There will be vice captains nominated from the start, simples.

There were vice captains from the start in 2005 but it was still a major disruption to lose the tour captain.

This should surely rule out Warburton as well though? He's injured all the time as well. As is BOD

Robshaw just seems to tick the most boxes.

Foxtrol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There were vice captains from the start in 2005 but it was still a major disruption to lose the tour captain.

This should surely rule out Warburton as well though? He's injured all the time as well. As is BOD

Robshaw just seems to tick the most boxes.

Possibly, but would he be close to starting, let alone a nailed on choice?

Has Warburton or even more so BOD had near the poor run of injuries as POC has?

irishbucsfan

Foxtrol wrote: »

Possibly, but would he be close to starting, let alone a nailed on choice?

Has Warburton or even more so BOD had near the poor run of injuries as POC has?

POC would be starting if fit. Not sure he will be.

Warburton has been constantly getting injured since the world cup. BOD seems to be constantly carrying something these days. BOD should be fine hopefully but I wouldn't put too much money on him lasting the tour.

siochain

Foxtrol wrote: »

There are always vice captains/leaders in a side so that makes no difference to the point at issue. It would be an unnecessary gamble to pick a guy as captain that has had an atrocious recent injury record, especially as he isn't head an shoulders above other potential choices.

It's like any risk you weight up the returns, see how you can mitigate the risk and make a call.

POC on his day is head and shoulder above the other rows.

I would prefer to see BOD get it but see greater competition for his place.

Teferi

siochain wrote: »

I would prefer to see BOD get it but see greater competition for his place.

Do you reckon? I think there is far more of a fight for second row.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

Are you seriously saying you cant see the difference in the scale of the problem you face in having to replace your captain pre/mid tour and replacing a normal touring player?

Its not ideal but they managed it when Brian O'Driscoll got injured - you find someone else to step up. If you took that view, considering his injury history on two tours, you wouldn't bring Brian O'Driscoll.

Hopefully POC's injury problems are ended now that he had the back operation (the same one as Rob Kearney had).

ormond lad

Referees for opening game v BaBas and the 3 tests have been announced
Steve Walsh will ref match v Barbarians and Chris Pollock, Craig Joubert and Romain Poite will ref the 3 Tests

.ak

ormond lad wrote: »

Referees for opening game v BaBas and the 3 tests have been announced
Steve Walsh will ref match v Barbarians and Chris Pollock, Craig Joubert and Romain Poite will ref the 3 Tests

Jeez, Joubert and Poite? :rolleyes: I'd have preferred Walsh in there.

FellasFellas

.ak wrote: »

Jeez, Joubert and Poite? :rolleyes: I'd have preferred Walsh in there.

Walsh isn't allowed to referee the tests as he's affiliated with the Australian Union. I think Pollock is a good ref, I'd rather see Barnes take the last test over Poite, and that's saying something.

irishbucsfan

No problem with those refs. All very strong.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Its not ideal but they managed it when Brian O'Driscoll got injured - you find someone else to step up. If you took that view, considering his injury history on two tours, you wouldn't bring Brian O'Driscoll.

Being assaulted does not count as having an injury history.

POC has likely one high profile game that's even remotely in the vicinity of lions test standard (and it's still way off) to play this season. He has simply done nothing to earn the captaincy and would be a massive risk. There is **** load of competition at lock too.

Hype710

Jaco Peyper would have been a good shout instead of Joubert IMO.

Swiwi

ormond lad wrote: »

Referees for opening game v BaBas and the 3 tests have been announced
Steve Walsh will ref match v Barbarians and Chris Pollock, Craig Joubert and Romain Poite will ref the 3 Tests

Obviously Australian refs (technically includes Walsh) plus Lions countries ruled out so on the experience front that pretty much leaves the refs they have chosen. Should be fine.

Swiwi

Hype710 wrote: »

Jaco Peyper would have been a good shout instead of Joubert IMO.

I think peyper Jackson etc would be seen as still too junior for a lions test match.

PurpleSt4in

Don't claim to know much about rugby but I would say the only Irish players with a shout of starting for the Lions are O'Driscoll & O'Brien, possibly Healy. Sexton when back to full fitness. O Connell there or thereabouts too.

What's the general consensus on Madigan? Just a season or two too soon? I'd like to see him go. Would stand to him big time experience-wise, but not optimistic on him getting a foot on the plane.

Podge_irl

If Gatland sees the sweet majestic light and picks Madigan I'm going back to find my post from before the season where I suggested he might make it. I'm convinced he would be a real candidate if Kidney had actually seen sense and picked him for Ireland squads.

rchendz92

PurpleSt4in wrote: »

Don't claim to know much about rugby but I would say the only Irish players with a shout of starting for the Lions are O'Driscoll & O'Brien, possibly Healy. Sexton when back to full fitness. O Connell there or thereabouts too.

What's the general consensus on Madigan? Just a season or two too soon? I'd like to see him go. Would stand to him big time experience-wise, but not optimistic on him getting a foot on the plane.

If Leinster were still in the HEC he'd have a slim chance. No chance as it is I reckon, though I'd expect him to be there on the next tour if he keeps up his form over the next few years.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Being assaulted does not count as having an injury history.

POC has likely one high profile game that's even remotely in the vicinity of lions test standard (and it's still way off) to play this season. He has simply done nothing to earn the captaincy and would be a massive risk. There is **** load of competition at lock too.

I can't see many locks being assaulted the way BOD was.

It seems experience counts in Gatland's book (and the bookies!).

Gatland: “The older players with a bit more experience have the upper hand because they have that behind them, don’t they?

“We know a lot about Paul O’Connell. We know what he brings to the party so we will be keeping a pretty close eye on him.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

If Gatland sees the sweet majestic light and picks Madigan I'm going back to find my post from before the season where I suggested he might make it. I'm convinced he would be a real candidate if Kidney had actually seen sense and picked him for Ireland squads.

If Gatland thinks that zebo is inexperienced & a bit risky (having played against NZ, SA & Argentina & England), he is hardly going to select Madigan in one of the key positions on the pitch who has never started an international match and its not as if he will get many chances to start any big games in the meantime.

Gatland: He [zebo] is inexperienced about at the top level but you can’t deny that there is something about him in terms of scoring tries and something happens when he is on the field.

twinytwo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There were vice captains from the start in 2005 but it was still a major disruption to lose the tour captain.

This should surely rule out Warburton as well though? He's injured all the time as well. As is BOD

Robshaw just seems to tick the most boxes.

Injury could hit anyone on the tour....

If being the most experienced and respected player to potentially go on the tour as well as the most experienced/capped international captain of all time not make BOD the prime canditate for Lions captain... there is something wrong.

If gatland wants a captain that will lead form the front there is only one real choice for the job.

.ak

Replace [zebo] with [madigan] and that quote would still make sense. Considering our lack of depth at OH I wouldn't be surprised to see Madigan as a bolter.

totallegend

Podge_irl wrote: »

Being assaulted does not count as having an injury history.
.

Don't forget getting injured throwing his entire body into a massive Bok in a heroic tackle in 2009. Yep, definitely don't want guys like that on tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCVCXiVecl4

Swiwi

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm sorry, but the guy has played in 3 internationals since the RWC and is only 1 real game back into his comeback from yet another injury. At absolute most he'll have 7 games before the plane takes off (and likely only 5). There is not the minutest chance the guy is being named captain.

I agree. If you look at it from a Lions and not Irish perspective, I dont think the other 3 nations would be too thrilled if POC effectively came from nowhere to be named captain. English press would have a field-day. He needs to demonstrate some consistent injury-free form just to get on the plane let alone be the captain.

Edit: Reckon it will be BOD, Warburton or Alun Wyn-Jones, with the Wales v England match probably having scuppered Robshaw's claims, as I don't think he's an automatic pick at 7.

Swiwi

.ak wrote: »

Replace [zebo] with [madigan] and that quote would still make sense. Considering our lack of depth at OH I wouldn't be surprised to see Madigan as a bolter.

I would be surprised to see Madigan on the plane. His credit in the bank basically comes from the Rabo direct competition, due to sitting behind Sexton in the Leinster pecking order. Much like the ABs no longer select bolters from the ITM cup, I'd be surprised if Gatland did the same from the Pro-12. However, he has form in this area, so it's possible, but I doubt Madigan is generating the same enthusiasm on the Scottish/Welsh/Eng rugby forums as he is on the Irish one.