Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality/End of World?

Mr. CooL ICE

Something about marrying toasters and goats?

Vivisectus

Ah yes the wedge argument! Forgot about that one.

- If we allow gay people to marry, then we will face a situation where we will have to allow other non-traditional marriages too

aloyisious

@Paris Hong: your "I think it have the impact on nature of the growth and evolution rule . This is why there have male and female" refers.

Re marriage, I don't think allowing homosexual couples the civil marriage rights that heterosexual couples have will have a causal effect on "nature of the growth and evolution rule". On paper, it might seem that there was a decrease in births due to the increased numbers of marriages (if the change in law was approved) and no pro-rata increase in births. However, if you were to look at any actual figures, you might see a subset on heterosexual married couples and births and see that there was no fall-off in births at all. So growth and evolution would not be affected at all, nature's baby-production business will continue unchanged. But all this business about growth and evolution rule is pure speculation, nothing else. There has been no change in civil marriage law,,,,,,,,,, yet (wink's).


I don't see there being a rush from within the heterosexual ranks to engage in civil marriage and sexual congress with homosexuals, so on those grounds those against the equalization of civil marriage law should be able to breathe easy (even if they don't want to). An equalization in the law will lead closeted homosexuals (even those in heterosexual lifestyle marriages and/or relationships) to see that the state see's them of equal value to their heterosexual counterparts in humanity and society, and come out of the closet despite the risk of dislike, shunning, or verbal and/or physical attack from homophobes. It's probable that that coming-out is what homophobes fear most, that they'll be neutered and powerless to express their hate.

Brian Shanahan

Paris Hong wrote: »

If gay marriage was legalized, so, it is open to everyone. Will the people follow this trend? Especialy the impact on the teenagers. I think it will affect social stability.

So that's why the population of Europe fell by a third in the 1300's. It wasn't because of the bubonic plague it was because of gay marriages.

But in all seriousness your assertion is sheer idiocy. Sexual orientation is genetic and not a matter of choice, therefore if we legalise gay marriage we won't have a flood of men wanting to run of with Ricky Martin or women wanting to run off with Alison Bechdel (well any more than there is currently anyways). It simply doesn't work the way you think it does.

Oh and on the whole population collapse nonsense you were spouting earlier, if that were plausible humanity wouldn't have lasted this long. The species has too few homosexuals, asexuals or those unlucky enough to not have successfully mated (and the third category is by far the biggest numbers wise) to actually make this idea possible.

Brian Shanahan

Paris Hong wrote: »

evolution

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0814/637085-bai/

Dónal O'Latchford-Sullivan of the Family and Media Association said there were no voices opposing same-sex marriage and the discussion amounted, in his opinion, to a debate where one side was forcibly absent.

Family and Media Association -their principal message seems to be that they need money.

I think RTE made a mistake in the complainant's name - Donal O'Sullivan-Latchford is also the Media Secretary of the Fraternity of St Genesius - Praying for those involved in cinema and theatrehttp://www.stgenesius.com/council.html

rainbow kirby

They should give me money to compensate for the loss of brain cells that their pathetic site design just caused me...

Brian Shanahan

rainbow kirby wrote: »

They should give me money to compensate for the loss of brain cells that their pathetic site design just caused me...

But never fear, here's a nice picture of the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to bathe your poor eyes in.

robindch

Oops - Wife of top Texas anti-gay crusader divorces him to be with lesbian partner

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/13/wife-of-top-texas-anti-gay-crusader-divorces-him-to-be-with-lesbian-partner/

Raw Story wrote:

The leader of an anti-LGBT group who has joined with Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott to ban same-sex marriage had his own marriage end after his wife began a romantic relationship with another woman. According to court documents obtained by Lone Star Q, Corrine Morris Rodriguez Saenz was dating another woman when she filed for divorce from Jonathan Saenz in 2011. Less than six months later, Jonathan Saenz took over as the president of the state’s top anti-gay group, Texas Values.

Corrine Saenz told the court that she wanted to end her marriage on the grounds that it was “insupportable due to discord or conflict of personalities … that destroys the legitimate ends of marriage and prevents reasonable expectations of reconciliation.” Jonathan Saenz initially asked the court to refuse to grant the divorce, and to bar “any unrelated adult, with whom the parent has an intimate, romantic, emotional, and/or dating relationship to remain in the presence of the children, including but not limited to Ercimin Paredes, a/k/a Ercilia M. Paredes.”

Paredes was reportedly Corrine Saenz’s girlfriend, and the two worked together at as teachers at Becker Elementary School in the Austin Independent School District. Nearly two years after the divorce battle began, Jonathan Saenz filed a counterpetition for divorce in May of 2013, accusing Corrine Saenz of adultery. The petition also asked that Paredes be permanently barred from access to the children. The divorce became final on Aug. 1, 2013, and the Agreed Final Decree of Divorce made no mention of Paredes.

The Final Decree stated that both parents had the right “to direct the moral and religious training of the children.” Earlier this year, U.S. District Judge Orlando Garcia ruled that Texas’ ban on same-sex marriage violated the Equal Protection clause of the U.S. Constitution. Jonathan Saenz has been working alongside Attorney General Abbott, the Republican Party’s nominee for governor, to overturn the decision.

“There is wide support for the state’s rights and for marriage to remain between one man and one woman. That cuts across political lines, across faith lines and across demographic lines,” Jonathan Saenz said earlier this month.

aloyisious

Disgraceful, they can't even get Dónal's family name spelt right. Tsk, using the licence-fee to forcibly keep free-speech off the national airwaves, has anyone told Derek he was a naughty boy?l

Saw this on facebook... http://m.independent.ie/life/family/parenting/two-mums-two-dads-one-mum-meet-irelands-modern-families-30499529.html

krudler

aloyisious wrote: »

Disgraceful, they can't even get Dónal's family name spelt right. Tsk, using the licence-fee to forcibly keep free-speech off the national airwaves, has anyone told Derek he was a naughty boy?

...whut?

krudler

Vivisectus wrote: »

Is anyone in a position to recap all proffered reasons not to allow gay marriage so far?

Because as far as I can tell they are:

- Unspecified negative impacts on society as a whole.
- Unspecified negative impacts on heterosexual marriages.
- Unspecified negative impacts on our ability to reproduce and raise children.

Maybe people with objections can actually specify the risks they see, and substantiate why they feel these risks are significant?

It usually boils down to "I'm not a homophobe but..."
Usually followed with "I oppose gay marriage because *insert unfounded claims passed of as fact*"
Then "Figures of my claims? oh I'm not here to google things for you"
Then question dodging, accusing others of question dodging when they do anything but, then storming off in a huff.

aloyisious

Sorry, Krudler, I was referring to this from Dónal, the "forcibly absent" bit made me laugh ([/QUOTE]Dónal O'Latchford-Sullivan of the Family and Media Association said there were no voices opposing same-sex marriage and the discussion amounted, in his opinion, to a debate where one side was forcibly absent.)

I suppose he meant that his God's army had no one present to ensure that the straight and narrow was followed.

Turtwig

Absolutely brilliant.

waterfordwhispernews wrote:

Large sections of Irish society have reacted with joy at the news that gay couples will have to require the presence of a bigot in studio on the occasions that they express the view that being gay isn’t on par with being Hitler.
Despite gay couples inherent evilness being a matter of scientific fact many clearly insane individuals have contested that, contrary to science and the constitution, gay people are people too.
The BAI upheld a complaint made by a member of the public in regards to a section of the Mooney Show on RTÉ Radio 1 which purportedly made wild claims about homosexuality and equality, suggesting that a couple interviewed thought gay marriage wasn’t an abomination. . .

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/08/15/gay-couples-not-allowed-appear-on-radio-without-a-bigot-rules-bai/

Vivisectus

Thank god we do not have a referendum on an Irish space program going. For the sake of fairness we would have to give equal airtime to representatives of the Flat Earth society.

Brian Shanahan

Vicky Beeching, christian singer and theologian (amongst other things) recently came out as being lesbian. As a result she got a fairly long plug on channel 4 news yesterday, the first five minutes talking about her experience as a lesbian and her belief that the bible is ok with gays (from her studies, segment starts at c. 33 minutes in). After that we get a panel discussion between herself, the newsreader (whose name escapes me) and Mr. Scott Lively (where did he get his supposed doctorate does anyone know?), where she proceeds to utterly pwn his n00biness (from c.38:15 in).

Highlights include:
1) Lively: "My sister was a lesbian...I was also the person she turned to when lesbianism almost destroyed her. She became a christian and overcame lesbianism."
a) Scott, she's still lesbian, it's just that your bullying her has put her in denial.
b) It wasn't her lesbianism that nearly destroyed her, Scott. It was your bullying.

2) L: "She [Beeching] has given into the lie that she is homosexual"...
Beeching: "That is very much what I have been raised to believe [she no longer believes same, obviously]. I think, psychologically, that's actually very damaging for people, because it makes you feel like you are fighting against yourself...accept sexual orientation as who you are, and a god given gift."

3) L: "There is no such thing as a gay person"
B: "So you think there is no such thing as being gay?"
L: "It is an identity that you adopt"
B: "So you think I can change the way I feel? [further questions emphasising this point]"...
L: "Vicky, god has the power to help you overcome your homosexual inclinations."

4)B: "[denial of homosexuality, assertion that you can stop being gay]is one of the things that has been so psychologically scarring."
L: "[a lot of stumbling verbally, he's really flustered] Vicky, you keep referring to psychology rather than a spirituality, I think that's your problem. You have adopt [sic] the thinking of the world including the idea"
B: "Like science you mean?"
L: "that being criticised damages" B [talking over Lively]: "so science is not god ordained?"
L: "No, true...true science...no true science and biblical theology are perfectly consistent."

5)L: "Don't you care what god thinks, Vicky?"
B: "I do, and that is why I am here today, so that young people don't have to listen to the ideas you peddle [Good girl Vicky!]

6)Presenter: "You helped the Ugandan government draft an anti-homosexuality law that includes the death penalty"
L: "No I didn't [he's being sued in Massachusetts by a Ugandan gay rights group over his work in inspiring the drafting of the law]. No I didn't. No I didn't. I've been on your show before, that's a lie [technically true, he was simply the inspiration for the law with his homosexual rantings in Uganda, not the writer of same, but he bears full responsibility for it along with it's drafters and supporters]"

7) L: "I have a thd myself, and I also have a doctor of law [apparantly from a diploma mill as far as I can see]"
B: "Good, so we can agree to differ then on the fact that those texts can be read in different ways."
L: "<pauses, annoyed over a mere woman contradicting him> No there's [sic] some things that are ambiguous in the scripture [including homosexuality, and how god allegedly created the universe, but clearly from the interview Lively believes that god definitely and definitively abominated the ghey]."

8) P: "Let me ask you one last question: Have you ever had any homosexual thoughts" L [talking over presenter]: "Yes [o-ho!]" "yourself?"
L: "of <stops himself, long pause>. No I fortunately haven't for me have experience [sic] same sex attraction [What are the odds that there are a number of rent-boys sharing Scott's closet with him? This whole passage shouts to me tha Lively is lying to himself about his sexual orientation]."

Ok that took a bit longer than I thought [edit: to give you a clue I started a bit before Vivisectus' post above], no subtitles. Hope ye enjoy the video.

PeteFalk78

Harold Weiss wrote: »

When I think of problems humanity needs to solve, Gay Marriage is definitely top of the list.

Yeah gay marriage is certainly more important that resolving world poverty, civil wars, starvation, terrorism, refugeeism and disease. :eek::rolleyes:

marienbad

Harold Weiss wrote: »

I was just thinking the other day this is indeed one of the most challenging problems facing mankind today.

When I think of problems humanity needs to solve, Gay Marriage is definitely top of the list.

even our politicians can s**t and chew gum at the same time . Why cant we try and do both ?

Nodin

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Yeah gay marriage is certainly more important that resolving world poverty, civil wars, starvation, terrorism, refugeeism and disease. :eek::rolleyes:

Gay marriage is indeed an issue, and one that can be addressed fairly easily.

PeteFalk78

Nodin wrote: »

Gay marriage is indeed an issue, and one that can be addressed fairly easily.

Yes but not "top of the list". These issues need to be put in context or categories.

Real problems affect whether people live or die, gay marriage affects how people live.

MrPudding

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Yeah gay marriage is certainly more important that resolving world poverty, civil wars, starvation, terrorism, refugeeism and disease. :eek::rolleyes:

Whilst you as an individual might not be able to do more than one thing at a time, the government is a massive organisation that can, and thankfully does, work on more than one thing at a time. Fixing the problem of marriage equality is, thankfully a relatively easy task I d is one that was/is unlikely to detract lagoon much from Ireland's efforts, or otherwise, to help fix the other things you mention.

It is funny, I have come accross this idea from a few anti-marriage equality people. Is the thought that the massive structure that is government is capable of Ono. Being turned to one thing at a time unique to them?

MrP

Turtwig

Hey!

Homeless person in Dublin your homelessness isn't as serious as poverty in Africa because you're not that likely to die. Henceforth we're not going to discuss your problem.

:rolleyes:

MrPudding

Turtwig wrote: »

Hey!

Homeless person in Dublin your homelessness isn't as serious as poverty in Africa because you're not that likely to die. Henceforth we're not going to discuss your problem.

:rolleyes:

And don't forget all those non-lethal gripes that tax payers have. What? The queues are too long in A&E? Well, the poor people of Africa don't even have A&E so I am afraid that improvments to A&E as well as the myriad of other fixes that governments need to implement on a daily basis will have to wait until we fix all the really big problems in the world. One at a time, obviously.

MrP

PeteFalk78

You got to laugh when posters don't understand context when looking at post.

Every quoting the original post one is referring to still doesn't cut make it sink in. So to clarify I was referring specifically to this post.

Harold Weiss wrote: »

When I think of problems humanity needs to solve, Gay Marriage is definitely top of the list.

lazygal

I love how Gay Marriage needs capital letters. Like Divorce. Or Abortion. Or Secular.

Pherekydes

lazygal wrote: »

I love how Gay Marriage needs capital letters. Like Divorce. Or Abortion. Or Secular.

In some countries they are considered capital offences, like Atheism!

lazygal

One wants to stay Alive! after all.

aloyisious

Originally Posted by Harold Weiss View Post
When I think of problems humanity needs to solve, Gay Marriage is definitely top of the list.

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

You got to laugh when posters don't understand context when looking at post.

Every quoting the original post one is referring to still doesn't cut make it sink in. So to clarify I was referring specifically to this post.

Pete, if you scroll back again to that post and have a look at the others before it, you might come to the conclusion that Harold was being sarcastic. I blinked at the post, the re-read twice before i saw that.

krudler

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Yeah gay marriage is certainly more important that resolving world poverty, civil wars, starvation, terrorism, refugeeism and disease. :eek::rolleyes:

Misunderstanding Sarcasm is pretty rampant as well these days. Awful condition.

aloyisious

iS iT tIME tO sTART a nEW tREND?

lynski

I wish people would stop saying gay marriage, there is no such thing, only marriage. Like there is no such thing as gay birth, death or taxes; it is just marriage.

robindch

lynski wrote: »

I wish people would stop saying gay marriage, there is no such thing, only marriage. Like there is no such thing as gay birth, death or taxes; it is just marriage.

I think the term "marriage equality" is much better. Time to change the thread title

robindch

Life is not easy in Pakistan if you need gender reassignment surgery - but the need for "a religious scholar" to approve it?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28693456

aloyisious

Remember the MarriagEquality March, Dublin, this Sunday, 3 PM at (the side of) City Hall, walking time. The Outhouse will be open from 1 PM as a gathering spot for LGBT-Noise and others before the march.

nozzferrahhtoo

lazygal wrote: »

I love how Gay Marriage needs capital letters. Like Divorce. Or Abortion. Or Secular.

I am a funny one when it comes to this and having read your post I am not sure why. But.... I will give capitals to subjects that are the current context where I otherwise would not.

So for example if I were discussing atheism and I was listing common focal points atheists seem to generally (generally!) get behind I would not usually capitalise. I would write a list like "abortion, gay marriage, evolution Theory" and so forth (Theory getting a capital T for other reasons).

But were I on a thread specifically about Gay Marriage like this one I would have more a tendency to capitalize it.

And I can see no actual rhyme or reason behind my tendency there. For example I am pretty sure I should always capitalize Evolution if I am writing "Evolution Theory" but I am not sure on that either.

Perhaps living in Germany does not help. Their CAPS rules differ from our own so I am in some kind of mid limbo.

To make a long point short though.... if we are commenting on peoples tendency to capitalize Gay Marriage then one should check if the sample set of anecdote behind the comment includes predominantly threads on the subject itself or threads in general. I would recommend a double blind but equal testing of a shared sample set on that one

lynski wrote: »

I wish people would stop saying gay marriage, there is no such thing, only marriage. Like there is no such thing as gay birth, death or taxes; it is just marriage.

robindch wrote: »

I think the term "marriage equality" is much better. Time to change the thread title

Totally Agree. Alas I think the term "gay marriage" is less about the goal and more about the point of contention. In that we say "gay marriage" not to identify what we want to create, install, or promote.... so much as to label the point of contention we have on the general subject of marriage.

It is like the Sam Harris speech on doing away with the term "atheism". And the contentious point that made most people rise against his speech was that it is not exactly that we want to call ourselves atheists to identify ourselves.... but to identify our issue.

As Sam Harris said the IDEAL society to live in for us may be one where the term "atheist" has no meaning just like calling yourself an "a-racist". And just like you say above..... the IDEAL society is one where we just have the term "marriage" and we do not have to sub define it in pointless ways.

When not having a word for your beliefs becomes the norm..... quite often one has reached ones goal.

Cabaal

This must be what Iona & Co think will happen....SHOCKING STUFF :eek::eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ervtik_7jYQ

aloyisious

Bring a brolly with you on Sunday if you're walking for equality.

Corkfeen

aloyisious wrote: »

Bring a brolly with you on Sunday if you're walking for equality.

Smiting us with meteor strikes is the worst.

eyescreamcone

Dear Joe

I got married to Mrs. Eyescreamcone a few years back.
Great day and lots of great days since also.

A bridesmaid on the day was/is gay.
As bridesmaid she also doubled as a legal witness to the civil marriage.

Is my marriage legally binding as we used a gay person as a legal witness.
If gays are not allowed to get married, surely they are not allowed to be a witness to a marriage either???

Is my marriage null and void because we had a gay witness??
Please help.

Vivisectus

Dear Eyesceam

We will let that one slide - you are still married. But gaying up your wedding does mean you cannot be SUPERmarried. So if you want to hold the exact same opinion about everything, finish each others sentences and show up to the team night out from work with your spouse, you will have to get a divorce and then try again.

lazygal

My friends got married and don't have any children and don't intend to. If the gays can marry does that mean they'll have to get divorced?

Bannasidhe

Dear Joe.

As a gay if gay marriage comes in will I have to get gay married?

aloyisious

Dear Joe, are wedding dresses/suits needed?

Cabaal

Dear Joe,

I got married back in 2009, if the gays are allowed to marry will that mean I'll have to get the level 2 upgrade because the gays will have ruined the normal marriage?

rainbow kirby

Dear Joe,

I'm bi and I'm getting married next year. If the gays are allowed to marry does that make mine extra awesome?

Cabaal

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Dear Joe,

I'm bi and I'm getting married next year. If the gays are allowed to marry does that make mine extra awesome?

Dear rainbow kirby,

It means you get the level 2 marriage upgrade at no extra cost!

Vivisectus

If Kirby gets married, does that count as marrying or gay-marrying? Should we also get a vote on Bi-marrying?

Ohmygod I think I may be There-Was-This-Curious-Phase-In-College married and never realized!

robindch

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Is my marriage null and void because we had a gay witness??

I'd like to know whether marriages are null and void if the priest was gay.

rainbow kirby

Well I'm marrying a guy, so it's a relatively straight but slightly queer marriage, but still fabulous

Pro Hoc Vice

robindch wrote: »

I'd like to know whether marriages are null and void if the priest was gay.

That would cause a serious problem!!!