Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality/End of World?

Sonics2k

Hey all,

I did a brief recording for CRY104 FM, a local radio station in Cork, for a two part documentary called Life Behind the Radio, and it's managed to get a decent amount of attraction. The podcast itself should be available soon enough, so I can post an update when it's out. A good group of people from all backgrounds of the LGBT community took part in it, so may be worth a listen.

robindch

Russia leads a vote within the UN to deny staff benefits to same-sex couples working for the UN. And loses. I wonder what the reaction amongst the Russian media is going to be - either no coverage at all or open homophobia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32031238

robindch

An organization named the "Christian Institute" holds a mass rally in Belfast for the people who refused to bake a cake for a gay couple. More than 2,500 people turned up to express their solidarity. Some were able to chew gum at the same time.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gay-cake-row-christian-institute-rally-for-ashers-baking-company-held-at-the-waterfront-hall-belfast-31093145.html

PopePalpatine

Isn't that the same "Christian Institute" (I would have thought the UK had stricter rules on what constitutes an "institute" than over here) that has called for creationism in schools, or am I confusing them with the Caleb Institute?

Hoagy

robindch wrote: »

An organization named the "Christian Institute" holds a mass rally in Belfast for the people who refused to bake a cake for a gay couple. More than 2,500 people turned up to express their solidarity. Some were able to chew gum at the same time.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/gay-cake-row-christian-institute-rally-for-ashers-baking-company-held-at-the-waterfront-hall-belfast-31093145.html

That picture reminds me of Ian Paisley's third force marches in 1981 when the marchers held up firearms certificates.

Or the KKK.

Nodin

Hoagy wrote: »

That picture reminds me of Ian Paisley's third force marches in 1981 when the marchers held up firearms certificates.

Or the KKK.

Some of the same personnel, less balaclavas and torches.

Bannasidhe

Going Strong

More of this sort of thing please.

Loony letter in today's Irish Examiner. Keep up the in-fighting lads.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/priests-too-cowardly-to-preach-on-nature-of-marriage-320858.html

Priests too cowardly to preach on nature of marriage

Congratulations to Alan Whelan (Irish Examiner, Letters, March 25) for rightly identifying the dereliction of duty inherent in the cowardly decision by the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP0 not to preach the Church’s teaching regarding the nature of marriage.

The Norwegians used the term Quisling to describe those who were traitorous during WWII; from a Catholic perspective, the same label now seems most applicable to the ACP.

Shrap

Going Strong wrote: »

The Norwegians used the term Quisling to describe those who were traitorous during WWII; from a Catholic perspective, the same label now seems most applicable to the ACP.[/I]

Quisling: A quisling is a person who collaborates with an enemy occupying force.

Woah. Bit strong lads? Keep it up. We'll all be enemy soon, and you can have your very own conspiracy theory - Infiltration of government by the "gaystapo", so well loved by the No campaign, but so unknown to the rest of us.....

PopePalpatine

The term "homofascist" is like calling a Jew a "k**enazi".

Hotblack Desiato

It never ceases to amuse watching the 'holy catholic ireland' types get their tighty whities in a twist.

robindch

Shrap wrote: »

Keep it up. We'll all be enemy soon, and you can have your very own conspiracy theory - Infiltration of government by the "gaystapo", so well loved by the No campaign, but so unknown to the rest of us.....

One of the terms bandied about by the Kremlin's media controllers is "gayropa" - "Gay" + "Europe" to indicate the subversion of the EU by the gay Mafia and their liberal agenda.

swampgas

robindch wrote: »

One of the terms bandied about by the Kremlin's media controllers is "gayropa" - "Gay" + "Europe" to indicate the subversion of the EU by the gay Mafia and their liberal agenda.

"Je suis gayropa" ?

robindch

There's a #RingYourGranny hashtag doing the rounds for the upcoming referendum. Here's one guy's video with the country's worst skip edits, but coolest granny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdZvbJ5t6dU

silverharp

^^

You should put that in the You feels you lose thread.


I had the first Yes callers to my door today , caught me by surprise. will there be a likelihood of No callers or are they not that dumb?

PopePalpatine

Ronan Mullen (my phone's spellchecker tried to change that to "Sullen" :pac:) has thrown his toys out of the pram.

Again.

Penn

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Ronan Mullen (my phone's spellchecker tried to change that to "Sullen" :pac:) has thrown his toys out of the pram.

Again.

How When Where?

efb

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Ronan Mullen (my phone's spellchecker tried to change that to "Sullen" :pac:) has thrown his toys out of the pram.

Again.

He's going to challenge every part of the child protection bill

wampyrus77

gay marriage works well in american why not here

pH

efb wrote: »

He's going to challenge every part of the child protection bill

It seems some are determined to use adoption and care of children as a form of attack, you can ignore these people as dishonest RL trolls, who know that in 2015 adoption is an absolute non-issue in Ireland - the last figures (2012 I think) show there were 16 non-family adoptions in Ireland in that year - ie only 16 children were adopted by "strangers" - in the adoption process we all think of (couple visiting an orphanage etc etc.)

The other 33 adoptions in Ireland that year were within existing family units, step-parents adopting a child for example.



I don't know about anyone else but the comparing the 2012 figures to the 1984 figures to me shows a huge positive step, non of which in my opinion can be credited to the religious whose system of shaming and imprisoning young pregnant women is almost as big a stain on our nations as the activities of paedophile priests.

tl;dr anyone worried about hordes of godless gay couples making off with the best straight Christian kids from orphanages is 30 years behind the times.

Zemuppet

Found this lovely peach on the Irish subreddit section. Unsurprisingly enough the comments were disabled and the video disliked heavily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_nmxXYIUqA

Doctor Jimbob

Zemuppet wrote: »

Found this lovely peach on the Irish subreddit section. Unsurprisingly enough the comments were disabled and the video disliked heavily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_nmxXYIUqA

I don't even know where to begin with that.

Morradge.

Threatening religious freedom

Acting as if something should be law because it's in the rules of a religion (surely advocating this is in itself threatening religious freedom?)

Think of the children. Lol.

Promotion of homosexuality :pac: to those poor impressionable children. It's not like being homosexual is something one is born with or anything...wait, no, it absolutely is. It's like giving out about people promoting gingers to children.

If only they had the same attitude to promotion of things that can be changed. Like, say, religion.

B0jangles

Anyone know where to go/who to contact to get badges in favour of marriage equality? I've seen a couple of people with them here in Bray so I'm hoping there's somewhere in the locality with them

recedite

pH wrote: »

I don't know about anyone else but the comparing the 2012 figures to the 1984 figures to me shows a huge positive step..
anyone worried about hordes of godless gay couples making off with the best straight Christian kids from orphanages is 30 years behind the times.

I agree its very positive that those formerly classed as "illegitimate" are more likely to be raised by their natural parent nowadays. The graph also shows the huge drop in "supply" of Irish born babies available to would-be adoptive parents, and the time period corresponds to the rise in popularity of foreign adoptions; Russia, Romania, Vietnam, Ethiopia etc..
So I wonder will the reality of the situation mean that gay couples will be more likely to be subject to foreign laws and whims? ie if they are competing with a straight Irish couple in a foreign country, how will the Irish legislation help them? And would a change in the Irish rules to facilitate the repatriation and "legitimisation" of all babies adopted abroad actually make more difference to them?

fisgon

Zemuppet wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_nmxXYIUqA

This is the new thing now with the religious right in many countries, the appeal to "Free speech and religious liberty". The idea that these guys, who throughout history have done everything in their power to restrict or annihilate free speech in any real form are now bleating about their own being infringed is laughable.

Also, the appeal to "religious liberty" is contemptible, like the advocates of catholic education complaining about "parental choice" in education. The fact is that the only liberty that they are being deprived of is the liberty to impose their beliefs on society.

It's interesting that these guys make no attempt to hide the absolute religious motivations for their "no" vote. Iona produced a similar video recently but the religious overtones were toned down in that one.

oscarBravo

Zemuppet wrote: »

Found this lovely peach on the Irish subreddit section. Unsurprisingly enough the comments were disabled and the video disliked heavily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_nmxXYIUqA

It goes back to what I've said before: it's becoming increasingly clear that objections to marriage equality are founded almost exclusively on either bigotry or religious woo, albeit disguised to a greater or lesser (this specimen is obviously of the lesser variety) extent.

The video talks about churches in Denmark being required to carry out same-sex marriages. That's something else I've talked about before: there is essentially no separation of church and state in Denmark. The Church of Denmark is heavily financed by the state, and there's a Minister for Ecclesiastical Affairs in the cabinet (although I think that's been subsumed into another ministerial role lately).

If the Church of Denmark has a problem with complying with the law, it could always decide to seek full separation of church and state, which would in turn require that it eschew state funding. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's...

seamus

Hah, the vast majority of "Oh no, think of the children" stuff in that video reads like a vote in favour of SSM to me.

"English schools now discuss homosexual, transexual and bisexuality with 3-11 year olds". Great!
"Parent will lose the right to withdraw their children from sex education classes" Awesome!

shruikan2553

Wow, all state churches have to follow state laws? Oh no.

If priests being forced one way or the other in terms of allowing SSM is against their freedom does that mean that unless the RCC allows priests to do as they wish they are attacking the priests religious freedom? Must be a pain keeping track of them all.

What about none Christians, wouldnt voting no be affecting their religious freedom?

Can a person marry a child? We dont want to attack their freedomz.

jobbridge4life

fisgon wrote: »

This is the new thing now with the religious right in many countries, the appeal to "Free speech and religious liberty". The idea that these guys, who throughout history have done everything in their power to restrict or annihilate free speech in any real form are now bleating about their own being infringed is laughable.

Also, the appeal to "religious liberty" is contemptible, like the advocates of catholic education complaining about "parental choice" in education. The fact is that the only liberty that they are being deprived of is the liberty to impose their beliefs on society.

It's interesting that these guys make no attempt to hide the absolute religious motivations for their "no" vote. Iona produced a similar video recently but the religious overtones were toned down in that one.

The right and conservative elements both here and abroad have learned to master the victim status. Its a narrative they are pushing all across the Western world

robindch

Mike Pence, the governor of Indiana, has brought in a new law named the "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" which permits religious people to act as they wish, so long as it's in accordance with their interpretation of their religious beliefs.

To say the least, this has not gone down well and many people, companies and even states, have said they're taking economic action of one kind or another:

BBC - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32126346
Tim Cooke of Apple in the WaPo - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/pro-discrimination-religious-freedom-laws-are-dangerous-to-america/2015/03/29/bdb4ce9e-d66d-11e4-ba28-f2a685dc7f89_story.html
Andy Borowitz in the New Yorker - http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/indiana-governor-stunned-by-how-many-people-seem-to-have-gay-friends?intcid=mod-most-popular

PopePalpatine

jobbridge4life wrote: »

The right and conservative elements both here and abroad have learned to master the victim status. Its a narrative they are pushing all across the Western world

I guess they may have learned how to "play the victim" because of all of the victims they themselves have created.

Nodin

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Promotion of homosexuality :pac: to those poor impressionable children. It's not like being homosexual is something one is born with or anything...wait, no, it absolutely is. It's like giving out about people promoting gingers to children.

If only they had the same attitude to promotion of things that can be changed. Like, say, religion.

PopePalpatine

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Promotion of homosexuality :pac: to those poor impressionable children. It's not like being homosexual is something one is born with or anything...wait, no, it absolutely is. It's like giving out about people promoting gingers to children.

I'd say this crowd are so frustrated that they can't go on "safaris" like their skinheaded, jackbooted comrades in Russia.

TheChizler

robindch wrote: »

Mike Pence, the governor of Indiana, has brought in a new law named the "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" which permits religious people to act as they wish, so long as it's in accordance with their interpretation of their religious beliefs.

To say the least, this has not gone down well and many people, companies and even states, have said they're taking economic action of one kind or another:

BBC - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32126346
Tim Cooke of Apple in the WaPo - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/pro-discrimination-religious-freedom-laws-are-dangerous-to-america/2015/03/29/bdb4ce9e-d66d-11e4-ba28-f2a685dc7f89_story.html
Andy Borowitz in the New Yorker - http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/indiana-governor-stunned-by-how-many-people-seem-to-have-gay-friends?intcid=mod-most-popular

I was reading about that a few days ago and assumed it must be up here somewhere but I missed it! Surely it's open to challenge?

silverharp

An unsigned printed postcard calling for No sent to Maynooth Students Union claims that Yes voters are in league with Jimmy Saville, Gary Glitter and Rolf Harris




https://twitter.com/AnTaobhRua/status/582859253846814720/photo/1

shruikan2553

silverharp wrote: »

An unsigned printed postcard calling for No sent to Maynooth Students Union claims that Yes voters are in league with Jimmy Saville, Gary Glitter and Rolf Harris




https://twitter.com/AnTaobhRua/status/582859253846814720/photo/1

I really wouldnt be trying to claim the yes side are in league with child abusers when the biggest part of your side is the RCC.

silverharp

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I really wouldnt be trying to claim the yes side are in league with child abusers when the biggest part of your side is the RCC.

Aren't there pics of the pope meeting saville ;-)

Links234

That's just sick... :mad:

pH

Surely Harris, Glitter and Savile were exclusively heterosexual paedophiles, and made no (or very few if any) statements concerning any aspects of homosexuality - including gay marriage

could be SU being trolled by someone with a colour laser printer.

efb

And Savile got a papal knighthood...

robindch

efb wrote: »

And Savile got a papal knighthood...

Did he have to kiss the pope's ring?

Links234

On a much happier note, WOO HOO GO JAPAN!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/31/tokyos-shibuya-ward-same-sex-marriage

robindch

TheChizler wrote: »

I was reading about that a few days ago and assumed it must be up here somewhere but I missed it! Surely it's open to challenge?

Following what seems to have been a bumpy few days - including the decoration of many shops and business in Indiana with "no discrimination here" notices - it seems that the good Governor has asked the legislature to "clarify" that the law which "prohibits state laws that 'substantially burden' a person's religious beliefs" (and which "defines 'person' to included religious institutions, businesses and associations") in fact "does not [...] give business a right to deny services to anyone":

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32136892

Zubeneschamali

silverharp wrote: »

Aren't there pics of the pope meeting saville ;-)

And cardinal O'Brien:

obplayer

robindch wrote: »

Mike Pence, the governor of Indiana, has brought in a new law named the "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" which permits religious people to act as they wish, so long as it's in accordance with their interpretation of their religious beliefs.

To say the least, this has not gone down well and many people, companies and even states, have said they're taking economic action of one kind or another:

BBC - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32126346
Tim Cooke of Apple in the WaPo - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/pro-discrimination-religious-freedom-laws-are-dangerous-to-america/2015/03/29/bdb4ce9e-d66d-11e4-ba28-f2a685dc7f89_story.html
Andy Borowitz in the New Yorker - http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/indiana-governor-stunned-by-how-many-people-seem-to-have-gay-friends?intcid=mod-most-popular

They're starting to lash out because they can feel power slipping away. Remember, a cornered rat is dangerous.

Brian Shanahan

robindch wrote: »

Mike Pence, the governor of Indiana, has brought in a new law named the "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" which permits religious people to act as they wish, so long as it's in accordance with their interpretation of their religious beliefs.

This kind of legislation is doubly damning of the people who bring it in and sponsor it. Not alone is it exonerating and encouraging bigotry, it is also gumming up the system with needless and expensive legislation and lawsuits (it'll be struck down as violating the 1st as soon as it get's near the courts, and Mr. Pence would surely know this, having been told so by his legal aides).

silverharp wrote: »

Aren't there pics of the pope meeting saville ;-)

Not only that, but Pope Karol W. made him a Knight Commander of the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the great.

silverharp

Here is the clown behind the "mandate for marriage" channel who is too chicken or "clever" to leave the comments open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPDWdDtwAzk

K4t

silverharp wrote: »

Here is the clown behind the "mandate for marriage" channel who is too chicken or "clever" to leave the comments open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPDWdDtwAzk

You can sense the fear in his voice in that video and subsequently from reading the website; I don't think there is as much of a sinister element as with say the likes of Iona however.

What I wish to God people like Sean Burke would do is simply abstain from voting in the referendum. I know they have fears but that doesn't mean same sex marriage itself is wrong, even if his religious beliefs tell him otherwise. I would say to him, hold onto your religious belief and speak out against same sex marriage, but don't actively attempt to enforce your belief on others by advocating a NO vote. Same sex marriage is not a belief, it is the extension of a right to marry to same sex couples which will not affect man woman marriages one iota.

obplayer

K4t wrote: »

You can sense the fear in his voice in that video and subsequently from reading the website; I don't think there is as much of a sinister element as with say the likes of Iona however.

What I wish to God people like Sean Burke would do is simply abstain from voting in the referendum. I know they have fears and some of the points he makes on the website are worth looking at, (for example of how Denmark has forced churches to perform same sex marriages, which is obviously wrong) but that doesn't mean same sex marriage itself is wrong, even if his religious beliefs tell him otherwise. I would say to him, hold onto your religious belief and speak out against same sex marriage, but don't actively attempt to enforce your belief on others by advocating a NO vote. Same sex marriage is not a belief, it is the extension of a right to marry to same sex couples which will not affect man woman marriages one iota.

There is a very simple solution to that problem and that is for the churches to give up the right to perform legal marriage ceremonies, restrict that right to government appointed places like registry offices which have to agree to the rules, and let the churches carry on with their ceremonies as a blessing. It works in France, but I bet if you suggest it here the howls from the religious will be heard on mars. They hate losing power.

Peregrinus

obplayer wrote: »

There is a very simple solution to that problem and that is for the churches to give up the right to perform legal marriage ceremonies, restrict that right to government appointed places like registry offices which have to agree to the rules, and let the churches carry on with their ceremonies as a blessing. It works in France, but I bet if you suggest it here the howls from the religious will be heard on mars. They hate losing power.

Actually, while there may be good arguments for separating civil and religious marriage in the way suggested, this isn't one of them. Equal status laws don't just apply to agencies providing services that carry some legal significance. If an organisation providing, say, wedding cakes or wedding photography can't lawfully refuse to provide those products or services to a same-sex couple, can an organisation provided wedding blessings or wedding celebrations refuse? The question will still arise, regardless of whether the blessing/celebration has any legal effect.