New Regulations January 2013

Faith+1

Notch000 wrote: »

True, I have the bike already just need to take washers out, IBT ??? spent 600 already so more expensive again but plenty of time to save, A harder test is hardly a bad thing overall.

1 yr is plenty to be restricted, i ve done 5K already in last 6months. Nearly the same as another friend has done in the last 5 years.

I wonder how the insurancre companies will react to the increased power bikes V restricted ones............

I'd love to know how long the Module 5 will be and the cost!? Not to mention that the driving test is being increased due to the cost of implimenting changes to the industry (January 19th) and lower government subsidies.

Anyone starting out from stratch next year will certainly deserve their full licence.

war_child

Faith+1 wrote: »

Don't forget though that it will be a harder test, you have to do a module 5 and you'll need a more powerful bike test day! I passed only 4 months ago but I'm not bitter in any way about these new rules, I'm just glad I don't have to go throught all that sh*te again!:cool:

I feel sorry for new guys who want to get on the road but might be put off as a result.

I think Faith when it comes to it Biking is a way of life as opposed to getting a car, alot of people get a car out of necessity either family reasons or there just not brave enuff to jump on the 2 wheels, and cars seem more socially acceptable.:eek:

Weve had this conversation before ive never had 4 wheels i just cant be doin with traffic , but biking is a def lifestyle choice and also a large commitment, the majority of Bikers i know take extremly good care of their machines:cool: , the same can not be said of most car drivers, so in relation to the testing and changed requirements i honestly believe if lads want to bike they wont let a little thing like an extra module stand in their way and put them off.:D

Faith+1

war_child wrote: »

[/B]
i honestly believe if lads want to bike they wont let a little thing like an extra module stand in their way and put them off.:D

As do I war_child but with every little thing they seem to be adding you'd want to be printing it! I can see alot of guys just riding on LP's in the future.

Bawnmore

Q13 I am 24 or over and currently hold a learner permit in Category A. I’m not planning to sit my practical driving test until after the 19th January 2013. What do the changes mean for me?

A13 If you pass your test and get a full Category A licence after the 19th January 2013 and you are aged 24 or over, you will be issued with a full licence in Category A with no restriction attached to the licence. If your first learner permit was issued on or after the 6th December 2010, you are required to complete Initial Basic Training, before you sit your driving test.

So just so I have this crystal clear.

I'm 25 right now and have my learner permit for years. I was going to book my full test for sometime soon. Are my options now as follows:

a) Take my test before 19th January and be restricted for 2 years, albeit with a slightly higher restriction than there is currently. Once the 19th January has passed, I have the choice of taking Module 5 at a huge cost to unrestrict my licence.
b) Wait until the 19th January next year, take my test and have an unrestricted licence immediately.

Correct? So if this is the case then there would be very little reason for taking my test before January right?

rat_race

Bawnmore wrote: »

So just so I have this crystal clear.

I'm 25 right now and have my learner permit for years. I was going to book my full test for sometime soon. Are my options now as follows:

a) Take my test before 19th January and be restricted for 2 years, albeit with a slightly higher restriction than there is currently. Once the 19th January has passed, I have the choice of taking Module 5 at a huge cost to unrestrict my licence.
b) Wait until the 19th January next year, take my test and have an unrestricted licence immediately.

Correct? So if this is the case then there would be very little reason for taking my test before January right?

Well, as others have pointed out, the test will be harder and you'll have to pay more for your IBT (extra module).

I don't know where you're getting the "have the choice of taking Module 5 at a huge cost to unrestrict my licence" idea from...but I'd love to know!

I don't think that's an option, and I doubt it will be.

Faith+1

Bawnmore wrote: »

So just so I have this crystal clear.

I'm 25 right now and have my learner permit for years. I was going to book my full test for sometime soon. Are my options now as follows:

a) Take my test before 19th January and be restricted for 2 years, albeit with a slightly higher restriction than there is currently. Once the 19th January has passed, I have the choice of taking Module 5 at a huge cost to unrestrict my licence.
b) Wait until the 19th January next year, take my test and have an unrestricted licence immediately.

Correct? So if this is the case then there would be very little reason for taking my test before January right?

The module 5 only applies to people who take the test after January 19th. If you pass before then you have a 2 year restriction which you can't change.

war_child

Faith+1 wrote: »

As do I war_child but with every little thing they seem to be adding you'd want to be printing it! I can see alot of guys just riding on LP's in the future.[/QUOTE

This i fear may very well be the truth , but such is the nature of this thread that its our responsibility to make sure new lads cominon to bikin do what they must so we dont receive anymore negative press....there just linin up to take pot shots at us ...lets not make it easy for em....:D

Bawnmore

rat_race wrote: »

I don't know where you're getting the "have the choice of taking Module 5 at a huge cost to unrestrict my licence" idea from...but I'd love to know!

Tbh I haven't got a clue where I go that from

Surely it'd make sense though to let people who have passed their test and are in the restriction period take the Module 5 and de-restrict themselves if they want to. Not at all saying it will happen, but would it not make sense?

It might be worth booking in for the test before then so. I don't think the restriction would bother me - gives about the right amount of time to get used to a bike anyway.

rat_race

Bawnmore wrote: »

Tbh I haven't got a clue where I go that from

Surely it'd make sense though to let people who have passed their test and are in the restriction period take the Module 5 and de-restrict themselves if they want to. Not at all saying it will happen, but would it not make sense?

It might be worth booking in for the test before then so. I don't think the restriction would bother me - gives about the right amount of time to get used to a bike anyway.

Well, they'd have to do the extra module, but it would also have to be assessed somehow without needing the person to re-sit their test...that will probably be their reason for not allowing it.

Can anyone give some examples of 35kW bikes?

MurderFace

nope but theres plenty of 250's that come in at a few kw more, also theres the power to weight ratio changes which will also make a lot more bikes learner legal, the increased range will give the rider so much more choice, at the same time it may artificially rise the market value of these for a while

war_child

rat_race wrote: »

Well, they'd have to do the extra module, but it would also have to be assessed somehow without needing the person to re-sit their test...that will probably be their reason for not allowing it.

Can anyone give some examples of 35kW bikes?

Thats actually a really good question , if anyone knows what bikes fall in this category would help lads decide ..cheers

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.magireland.org/2012/campaigns/training/rsa-announcement-on-direct-access/

Edit: already posted a couple of pages ago
but there's no reason why not, if you are on the two year A2 restriction and over 24, that you can't get an unrestricted A learner permit, go through the hoops as if you were a new rider, and take test and get a full unrestricted licence after 6 months

The 6 month wait for a test is stupid!

thomashood10

Just in!

RSA announces new rules and regulations for 2014

New A3 license, also 2 new mandatory courses including ABT and SBT (advanced bike training, and super bike training)

For the test you must be able to jump 10 double decker buses through a ring of fire, without blinking, while doing all the hand signals in quick succession.

All bikes will need to be painted luminous yellow at your expense, and you will need to wear a giant 'I road safety' light bulb provided by the RSA, on top of your helmet. Completely reflective clothing is now mandatory too.

Should you incur 1 penalty point, you will be stripped of your light bulb and your license. Then taken to court, where we will try our best to beat some sense into you.

After the beating, you will then be restricted to riding a scooter with about 50 L stickers plastered all over ye.

These new rules are being implemented to bring down the BILLIONS of people killed on the roads of Ireland every day.

---

:rolleyes:

war_child

thomashood10 wrote: »

Just in!

RSA announces new rules and regulations for 2014

New A3 license, also 2 new mandatory courses including ABT and SBT (advanced bike training, and super bike training)

For the test you must be able to jump 10 double decker buses through a ring of fire, without blinking, while doing all the hand signals in quick succession.

All bikes will need to be painted luminous yellow at your expense, and you will need to wear a giant 'I road safety' light bulb provided by the RSA, on top of your helmet. Completely reflective clothing is now mandatory too.

Should you incur 1 penalty point, you will be stripped of your light bulb and your license. Then taken to court, where we will try our best to beat some sense into you.

After the beating, you will then be restricted to riding a scooter with about 50 L stickers plastered all over ye.

These new rules are being implemented to bring down the BILLIONS of people killed on the roads of Ireland every day.

---

:rolleyes:

HA HA HA HA HA BLEEDIN MARVELLOUS

Faith+1

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet but I E-mailed the RSA and asked them the situation regarding someone(Over 24) who passes their test now but waits until after January 19th so they can recieve an unrestricted licence?

"ANSWERED BY RSA"
Thank you for your query if you have already sat your bike test for category A then you will be restricted for 2 years on your full licence regardless if you submit the certificate of competency after the 19th January ,the only change to the restriction is that it will change from 25Kw to 35kW on the 19th January 2013.Once you have held your full licence for two years the restriction is lifted automatically.

carsQhere

thomashood10 wrote: »

Just in!

RSA announces new rules and regulations for 2014...These new rules are being implemented to bring down the BILLIONS of people killed on the roads of Ireland every day.

---

:rolleyes:

Bike fatalities were at record lows of 17 for 2010 & 2011. According to Garda figures, we're already at 17 so far this year (10 riders, 7 pillions).

If so much as one more individual dies on a bike this year those figures will - to use the official parlance - be trending upwards.

That'll be the excuse needed to justify the proposal to hit bikers with double points. Joke about it all you like, but unless/until we stop getting killed and seriously injured the restrictions and prohibitions will keep on coming.

daenerysstormborn3

carsQhere wrote: »

Bike fatalities were at record lows of 17 for 2010 & 2011. According to Garda figures, we're already at 17 so far this year (10 riders, 7 pillions).

If so much as one more individual dies on a bike this year those figures will - to use the official parlance - be trending upwards.

That'll be the excuse needed to justify the proposal to hit bikers with double points. Joke about it all you like, but unless/until we stop getting killed and seriously injured the restrictions and prohibitions will keep on coming.

And how many people in cars have been killed since the beginning of the year? 17 bikers/pillions vs probably at least 100 other vehicle user deaths - yet for some reason they're proposing to hit us with double points?

carsQhere

pixiebean22 wrote: »

And how many people in cars have been killed since the beginning of the year? 17 bikers/pillions vs probably at least 100 other vehicle user deaths - yet for some reason they're proposing to hit us with double points?

57 drivers, 16 passengers so far in 2012.

The problem for us as riders is that bikes are about 2% of traffic as far as we know.

In 2011 a total of 186 people died on the roads.

Roughly 2% of those 186 would be about 4 bike fatalities. In fact we had 17.

The RSA sees this for what it is. A disproportionate number of bike fatalities. The response? Disproportionate suggestions like double points.

thomashood10

17 people out of 186 is roughly 10% of overall deaths lets say.

Lets say next year 50 people die on the roads, and only 5 people die on a bike.

That's 10% of all road deaths still. Yet we have improved our numbers

By using percentages we're kidding ourselves, we'll be chasing our tails until no one dies on the roads.

My point is so few people are getting killed that measuring in percentage is pointless at this stage. We're talking about a handful of people, so using statistical analysis on a small section of people, where the actions are highly circumstantial and down to the individual, makes no sense.

It's not like there's only 50 bikes out there on the roads of Ireland either, there's easily thousands of us. Aren't we breaking a Guinness world record sometime today?

The RSA always deals in percentages because it's afraid of doing the obvious thing, comparing us to other countries, which we actually stack up pretty well against for a country with a population of 6 million now.

Aside from all this I believe the statistics include people who are simply using the vehicle, whether they're licensed/reg'd or not.

If the RSA give bikes double penalty points, I don't know why they're doing it. Why is a motorcycle user more prone to breaking the law than a regular car user?

Are they giving us more points because we should know better? Bikes are more dangerous because we're more exposed. A car is just as lethal in the wrong hands, in fact more so.

Here's the real reason they're doing it.

Motorbikes are always a test bed for new road laws being brought in, if it can work for motorbikes, it will work for the major car population.

..and so those anal retarded dorks can justify their existence for another year. Being our big nanny friend and coming up with new ways to charge us under the moniker of road safety.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the government aren't trying to up the cost of existing to cover other problems, and I'm just overthinking all of this. :rolleyes:

carsQhere

thomashood10 wrote: »

17 people out of 186 is roughly 10% of overall deaths lets say.

Lets say next year 50 people die on the roads, and only 5 people die on a bike.

That's 10% of all road deaths still. Yet we have improved our numbers

By using percentages we're kidding ourselves, we'll be chasing our tails until no one dies on the roads.

My point is so few people are getting killed that measuring in percentage is pointless at this stage. We're talking about a handful of people, so using statistical analysis on a small section of people, where the actions are highly circumstantial and down to the individual, makes no sense.

You're missing the point. If riders/pillions are 10% of the total fatalities and just 2% of the traffic we stand out. We're the easy target for anyone looking to bring the 10% number down inline with the rest.

thomashood10 wrote: »

It's not like there's only 50 bikes out there on the roads of Ireland either, there's easily thousands of us. Aren't we breaking a Guinness world record sometime today?

The RSA always deals in percentages because it's afraid of doing the obvious thing, comparing us to other countries, which we actually stack up pretty well against for a country with a population of 6 million now.

We've been compared to other countries using all sorts of measures, and we don't stack up well.

thomashood10 wrote: »

Aside from all this I believe the statistics include people who are simply using the vehicle, whether they're licensed/reg'd or not.

This is true. This Norwegan study found somthing like 1 in 5 of the riders killed didn't have a license, and 1 in 3 involved extreme behaviour/criminality.

thomashood10 wrote: »

If the RSA give bikes double penalty points, I don't know why they're doing it. Why is a motorcycle user more prone to breaking the law than a regular car user?

Are they giving us more points because we should know better? Bikes are more dangerous because we're more exposed. A car is just as lethal in the wrong hands, in fact more so.

It was actually the Dept. of Transport came up with the double points idea. It makes no difference who comes out with it - all these ideas like mandatory high viz, double points, roadworthiness testing - they're all because our casualty rates are sky high compared to other road users.

thomashood10 wrote: »

Here's the real reason they're doing it.

Motorbikes are always a test bed for new road laws being brought in, if it can work for motorbikes, it will work for the major car population.

..and so those anal retarded dorks can justify their existence for another year. Being our big nanny friend and coming up with new ways to charge us under the moniker of road safety.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the government aren't trying to up the cost of existing to cover other problems, and I'm just overthinking all of this. :rolleyes:

It's really very simple as I see it. So long as we keep ending up dead on the roads, the "authorities" will keep dreaming up new and often useless ways to put a stop to that.

Our casualty rates have improved dramatically over the past few years, but they're still way out of proportion.

We all know that if it comes down to a crash we'll come off worst. The only way we will bring down casualties is by avoiding the crash in the first place.

The only proven way to reduce you chances of being in a crash is proper training. Trained riders simply don't get killed or injured as often as untrained riders. Their chances are dramatically better.

All this bull**** about high-viz, or double points, and NCTtests for bikes is just that - bull****. If you want to tip the odds in your favour, do some advanced training.

daenerysstormborn3

At the end of the day though, you can train all you want but that's still not going to make a difference to other road users being seemingly unaware that we exist and they don't appear to be targeted enough with campaigns about our safety.

carsQhere

pixiebean22 wrote: »

At the end of the day though, you can train all you want but that's still not going to make a difference to other road users being seemingly unaware that we exist and they don't appear to be targeted enough with campaigns about our safety.

True, but only half of bike accidents are down to the other vehicle. The other half we manage all by ourselves.

Much as we'd like to see aware and competent drivers, it'll take a generation or more to happen.

daenerysstormborn3

carsQhere wrote: »

True, but only half of bike accidents are down to the other vehicle. The other half we manage all by ourselves.

Much as we'd like to see aware and competent drivers, it'll take a generation or more to happen.

Yeah and they can target us but not the other half.

Please Kill Me

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Yeah and they can target us but not the other half.

Aye. F**kers!!! :mad:

thomashood10

Percentages make it sound scary

90% of the other road deaths were something else other than a motorbike. Probably involving a car.

I don't understand what number they want to see from bike deaths.. do they want 2%? .. Then 2 people need to die on a bike in the whole year.

For a country with a population of 6 million, that's highly centralized, with roads that (let's face it) aren't perfect.. accidents will happen. I don't see that happening.

In my opinion as a country we have done an exceptional job of bringing down road deaths, even the RSA acknowledge that. To carry on heaping on more penalties and restrictions doesn't make sense without a figure to aim for.

chasm

I have nothing against rider/driver training, in fact i think the Govt should have brought in the IBT and EDT years ago. The problem is that they didn't and because of this there are a lot of people who drive on a daily basis totally oblivious to the dangers of their driving.

The fact that the govt gave out 60,000 driving licences in 1979 without people ever having to sit a test is testament to their totally lack of responsibilty to road safety in the past imo.
I have to agree with carsQhere in that it will take another generation or two before we see any major improvement on road death statistics, however doubling penalty points for motorcyclists is ridiculous, but then consdering they brought in laws that make it ok to have a higher level of drink in your system if you hold a full licence i am beyond being surprised by any law or regulation they try to implement!

/rant

kevin-46

i have my full about 4 months now im 21 in January i was goin to sell the bike and get car then after a year on the car o back to the bike so i could drive any cause my 2 years would be up can i still do that ?

rat_race

kevin-46 wrote: »

i have my full about 4 months now im 21 in January i was goin to sell the bike and get car then after a year on the car o back to the bike so i could drive any cause my 2 years would be up can i still do that ?

Yep.

RATM

Just wondering if anyone could clarify my own situation. I'm over 25 and on my 2nd learner permit which is valid till April 2013.
But here's the thing- it was issued in April 2009, before any of these new rules came in. Does that mean I fall out of the scope of the new (and even newer) rules ? I think I heard before that it does but wanted to make sure.

I'm just getting back on bikes now after a 2 yr absense so intend on getting some refresher lessons in the next week and then to apply for my test asap with the hope of doing it in November / December

daenerysstormborn3

I'm pretty sure you fall outside the new and newer rules but if you were to wait until after 19th January 2013 to apply, sit and pass your test and complete one IBT conversion module, you would get your full unrestricted licence straight away without having to wait out the two year restriction period. I'm in a similar position to you and intend waiting until after 19th January to sit (and hopefully pass) my test.