New Regulations January 2013

carsQhere

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

In an ideal world, sure we can get rid of the 2 yrs but we are not living in an ideal world and as I said there are alot of un-responsible people out there.

The day we started organising our world around the needs and whims of the "un-responsible people out there" was the day we started going wrong.

When we did that we disconnected the irresponsible people from the consequences of their own behaviour, and transferred the burden of their irresponsible actions onto ourselves.

I alone am responsible for my actions when I ride. My life, my bike, my choice. Don't go accepting any restrictions or prohibitions on my behalf, thanks. As a responsible adult, I alone am responsible for the risks I take every time I go out, bike, car, whatever.

Believing a power restriction makes you safer actually makes you a higher risk, because it is just another way of disowning responsibility for your own actions.

carsQhere

urbanledge wrote: »

its not like you'll be able to get insured on a R1 or 1000 gsxr with 6 months experience anyway !

The irresponsible (and the criminal element) won't care about insurance. they'll just go out and if/when they get injured or worse their actions will be used as a justification to enforce further restrictions on the rest of us.

carsQhere

carsQhere wrote: »

The irresponsible (and the criminal element) won't care about insurance. they'll just go out and if/when they get injured or worse their actions will be used as a justification to enforce further restrictions on the rest of us.

True but thats the case now anyway,

Wonda-Boy

carsQhere wrote: »

The day we started organising our world around the needs and whims of the "un-responsible people out there" was the day we started going wrong.

When we did that we disconnected the irresponsible people from the consequences of their own behaviour, and transferred the burden of their irresponsible actions onto ourselves.

I alone am responsible for my actions when I ride. My life, my bike, my choice. Don't go accepting any restrictions or prohibitions on my behalf, thanks. As a responsible adult, I alone am responsible for the risks I take every time I go out, bike, car, whatever.

Believing a power restriction makes you safer actually makes you a higher risk, because it is just another way of disowning responsibility for your own actions.

The key phrase there is "Responsible Adult" not everybody is. So therefore we have to tailor the legislation the best we can. Its not gonna suit everyone.

I would have no problem with no restriction for my own situation, as I would wait to gain experience before getting a big bike and learn the ropes on a smaller one. And I consider myself to be a safe responsible rider. I dont need a GSXR 1400 trophy bike and not be able to ride it like some people.

If everyone is perfect on bikes and we all responsible adults why have any restriction at all even for learners on a first time permit. Why not, just from the get go take away the power restriction aswell and be able to ride a big bike and see how we get on.

There is a reason why you start off on a smaller c.c bike and take your knocks and learn the ropes you know....but according to the logic on here after 6 mths and passing a relatively easy full test its fine to buy any bike you want regardless of your age.

If a 17/18 yr old came to any parent on here starting out in biking and said I am getting a R1 after 6 mths I bet you a pound to a penny no responsible parent on here would let there own flesh a blood do it, no matter how macho the posts on here are. But yet they preach away on here about freedom of speech and I do what I want its my life yadda yadda yadda.

Any who, back to the topic on hand....

bluefinger

Everytime i come into this thread it gives me a new headache. :mad:

I was operating on the assumption that this was correct.

Q13 I am 24 or over and currently hold a learner permit in Category A. I’m not planning to sit
my practical driving test until after the 19th
January 2013. What do the changes mean for me?
A13 If you pass your test and get a full Category A licence after the 19th
January 2013 and you
are aged 24 or over, you will be issued with a full licence in Category A with no restriction
attached to the licence. If your first learner permit was issued on or after the 6th December 2010,
you are required to complete Initial Basic Training, before you sit your driving test.

Can someone confirm this for me so. am way over 24. got my ibt and A license around June this year. was hoping to do the test next year. If i pass do i get a full a license with no restriction or do i have to do extra ibt modules/get a different learner permit?

not too pushed about the restriction but am on a cbf 250 at the mo and might see a nice 400cc or something in the next year and would be good if i had the option to go for it without the mess of having to restrict etc.

daenerysstormborn3

bluefinger wrote: »

Everytime i come into this thread it gives me a new headache. :mad:

I was operating on the assumption that this was correct.



Can someone confirm this for me so. am way over 24. got my ibt and A license around June this year. was hoping to do the test next year. If i pass do i get a full a license with no restriction or you have to do extra ibt modules/get a different learner permit and then get your full licence with no restriction?

not too pushed about the restriction but am on a cbf 250 at the mo and might see a nice 400cc or something in the next year and would be good if i had the option to go for it without the mess of having to restrict etc.

Bit in bold. That seems to be what the RSA are saying now. I don't believe that the meeting with instructors is going to change this, I believe the meeting with instructors is merely to inform them of the new rules and their role in implementing them so I'd refer you to this post - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80939168&postcount=170 - that is the most up-to-date information I have from the RSA.

Hotblack Desiato

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

In an ideal world, sure we can get rid of the 2 yrs but we are not living in an ideal world and as I said there are alot of un-responsible people out there.

Irresponsible people weren't going to take training and do the direct access test
Probably not bother with the test (or restriction) at all. That's a matter for the guards to enforce, not bring in laws to punish all bikers.

Every other EU country does not have the mandatory 2 year restriction. What was so special about Ireland?

It won't matter under the new rules anyway as the accelerated access option will be there.

thomashood10

Booked my full test for the 19th of this month, they called me to say they haven't received the IBT I did back on August 5th so they'll have to cancel. Querying how it was my responsibility to provide it I asked 'How do I send it to you?'. Apparently the instructor has to sign it in or the people you have done it with, I asked if I could just bring it with me on the test day and she said no.

She left me 3 voicemails and emailed me about it, you'd think in that time they could have talked to my instructor and just confirmed it with him.

Why not just let me bring the certificate to the test? It's a certificate not a piece of paper.

So more advice to add to the pile, when you do your IBT make sure they process it I guess? I'd wager anything my instructor passed the forms onto them and they lost 'em. Cue him having to resend them and the test getting cancelled, plus since I'm outside the 7 day cancellation period I'm sure I'll lose my money.

I don't know how they intend to implement all these new regulations and remain functional if the benchmark is having me chase people up for this when I have the damn cert in my hand.

Did anyone else have this problem when applying for their test?

Wonda-Boy

Usually IBT instructors send the paperwork off in batches, so say 5 at a time. Obviously depending on how busy they are. Ring your instructor and ask him did he (a) send it in (b) was it in a batch (c) if so what was the other cert numbers and see if they can find that one with your attached.

Terrible the run around you get. Best of luck with the test when you get it.

Faith+1

ninja900 wrote: »

Every other EU country does not have the mandatory 2 year restriction. What was so special about Ireland?

Good point. Maybe because they know us Irish won't kick up a fuss, "Sure it'll be grand":rolleyes:

Please Kill Me

Faith+1 wrote: »

Good point. Maybe because they know us Irish won't kick up a fuss, "Sure it'll be grand":rolleyes:

Yeah, just like everything else... :mad:

Roadskill

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Usually IBT instructors send the paperwork off in batches, so say 5 at a time. Obviously depending on how busy they are. Ring your instructor and ask him did he (a) send it in (b) was it in a batch (c) if so what was the other cert numbers and see if they can find that one with your attached.

Terrible the run around you get. Best of luck with the test when you get it.

They are to be sent in every week regardless of how many ibt's are done. The problem is the RSA are a bit slow in processing IMO. I got a message from them regarding an issue with one of the Certs saying they couldn't process it because it wasn't my book of certs but someone else's. they sent me the wrong book so it was their fault. The thing is I had sent it in 6 months ago :eek:

Please Kill Me

So from what I'm reading here, the RSA really has a lot to answer for. Seems to be run by a bunch of monkeys from what I've read! FFS how is anyone gonna have faith/trust in them if they're this useless!!?? :rolleyes:

Wonda-Boy

Would love to be a fly on the wall when they meet instructors soon, we really need the instructors to let them know how confused the public are in relation to the new proposed laws.

carsQhere

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Would love to be a fly on the wall when they meet instructors soon, we really need the instructors to let them know how confused the public are in relation to the new proposed laws.

Bump!

That meeting is happening this weekend. Should be the definitive word on the new licensing regulations which would be good seeing as the RSA has published contradictory information on the subject to date.

cojomo2

I have always been tempted to get back on a bike, but the whole driving restricted for 2 years after passing the test put me off..I'm hoping they stick to whats on their site, stating that if you are over 24 and pass the test, power restriction no longer apply...I've already booked my theory test based on this, fingers crossed..

the drifter

Been having a read through this. I'm 28 and riding a shadow 750 ( non restricted legal on the power to weight ratio). I've been on the road since Easter this year and i'm going to leave the test off until the new year. From what i gather I'm still going to come out with a restricted licence?

It doesn't really bother me either way. It doesn't mean i cant bike for 2 years it just means i have something to look forward too

Roadskill

Just a heads up on one point from today's meeting with the RSA.
Module 5 will be done in two ways
1. If you already did your IBT previously (modules 1,2,3,4) and are moving up to another category of licence e.g an A1 to an A2 the module 5 will be 11 hours. Basically a repeat of modules 2 and 4 but on the larger bike (over 395cc & below 35kw for A2)
2. If you are over 24 and want to get an unrestricted A then module 5 will be 13 hours.
A repeat of modules 2 & 4 with some extra elements included so, IBT modules 1,3 & 5 if not done before or just module 5 if IBT done in another category of permit. This is to be completed on a bike over 595cc & over 50kw power and over 180 kg weight.

Q. if you have a restricted cat A LP now, can you change it after 19th Jan for an unrestricted one if over 24.
A. "yes"

Q. Will the exchanged permit mean another 6 month wait
A. "No"

Module 5 of 13 hours will be required before doing unrestricted test.

Now before you scream at me don't shoot the messenger. Also take into consideration direct access in the UK means 5 days intensive training on a school bike at around £450 and getting there and accommodation which a lot of people thought about doing to bypass the restriction before.

Richard tea

Whats the likely cost of mod 5?

Roadskill

There will be no change for you as yet. The RSA have a few final issues with the EU and one of them is that there should be a way of getting rid of your full licence restriction if over 24. The problem is the test was passed on a bike under the new regulation power and weight ratios so that sticks. They are pushing for a way around it and we won't know on that one for a while longer.

prunudo

Like I've said before, anyone who can try and pass the test before jan 19th, should. This new set up looks like its gonna cost a fortune.

Another nail in the coffin of motorcycling in Ireland. No hope of young lads getting into it in the future

daenerysstormborn3

Any idea if the RSA or MAG intend on releasing accurate information dealing with all queries put to them over the past few months in line with any information they received at the meeting? Will they be releasing a final document which will be the final say on everything?

Roadskill

jvan wrote: »

Like I've said before, anyone who can try and pass the test before jan 19th, should. This new set looks like its gonna cost a fortune.

Another nail in the coffin of motorcycling in Ireland. No hope of young lads getting into it in the future

How much to restrict a bike now? That won't need to be done. Young lads are not affected really its if you want to bypass the restriction, don't forget a lot of people have been calling for direct access for years. Did you think it would be free. It's not just Ireland it's the EU. All member states have to conform.

Coyote

Hi Roadskill

thanks for providing some of the info you got today.
do you know what would be needed for me to get my full licence restriction removed. I passed my test about 5 months ago and have done the 4 module's that could be done at that time.
do i just need to do part 5(all 13 hours) and then retest
or just a shorter part and hand in the cert with my full licence?

thanks

Coyote

Roadskill

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Any idea if the RSA or MAG intend on releasing accurate information dealing with all queries put to them over the past few months in line with any information they received at the meeting? Will they be releasing a final document which will be the final say on everything?

There will be soon but they want all of their concerns addressed before doing that. We could have been there for 2 days tbh as questions were thick & fast but they are 95% sure that what is proposed will come in. There may be other changes like my other post regarding current full licence holders with restriction but that needs clarification from the EU first.

Roadskill

Coyote wrote: »

Hi Roadskill

thanks for providing some of the info you got today.
do you know what would be needed for me to get my full licence restriction removed. I passed my test about 5 months ago and have done the 4 module's that could be done at that time.
do i just need to do part 5(all 13 hours) and then retest
or just a shorter part and hand in the cert with my full licence?

thanks

Coyote

Hi Coyote
Refer to my post #201

daenerysstormborn3

Roadskill wrote: »

There will be soon but they want all of their concerns addressed before doing that. We could have been there for 2 days tbh as questions were thick & fast but they are 95% sure that what is proposed will come in. There may be other changes like my other post regarding current full licence holders with restriction but that needs clarification from the EU first.

Yeah I think most sensible people figured that the bones of the proposals would come in with a few tweaks here and here after this meeting. Looking forward to reading the finalised document as soon as possible so I can make a decision, hopefully they'll get it out there soon to allow people to make an informed decision about whether to sit their test before January if they so wish.

Coyote

Roadskill wrote: »

Hi Coyote
Refer to my post #201

thanks Roadskill

the post was not there when I hit reply. only showed up after I hit the post button.

prunudo

Roadskill wrote: »

jvan wrote: »

Like I've said before, anyone who can try and pass the test before jan 19th, should. This new set looks like its gonna cost a fortune.

Another nail in the coffin of motorcycling in Ireland. No hope of young lads getting into it in the future

How much to restrict a bike now? That won't need to be done. Young lads are not affected really its if you want to bypass the restriction, don't forget a lot of people have been calling for direct access for years. Did you think it would be free. It's not just Ireland it's the EU. All member states have to conform.

Will some bikes still not have to be restricted to comply with the new rules.
Another 13hrs of ibt and a second test to get the full A plus pre-test lessons. It's not exactly gonna be cheap. It could cost €800-1000 to get an upgrade to your license. I didn't expect to be free but my intial thought is that 13hrs seems excessive.

Roadskill

jvan wrote: »

Will some bikes still not have to be restricted to comply with the new rules.
Another 13hrs of ibt and a second test to get the full A plus pre-test lessons. It's not exactly gonna be cheap. It could cost €800-1000 to get an upgrade to your license. I didn't expect to be free but my intial thought is that 13hrs seems excessive.

Jvan
It's all age related.
The new A2 licence can be kept as long as you want. If the option for a bigger machine is required it can be done. At least there is the option. Also if the A2 full permit has been held for at least 2 years you can move up to the full A without taking another test by completing just module 5 on the A permit and the instructor can sign it off, you then exchange your module 5 cert for a full unrestricted A licence.
Essentially the instructor has become the tester meaning no extra pre-test lessons or a second test.