Michael f*cking Carrick

Liam O

Well it worked somewhat in the Liverpool thread with Lucas and it's become tiresome to read in the United thread. I think he's a quality centre-mid, others disagree. Mods can close if they think it's not needed but I do.

Al Capwned

I rate him. Others don't.
That's fine....

Samich

One of Man Utds best players last season.
Winning experience.
Works well with a good passer like Scholes.
Great at interceptions and reading the game.

Leiva

Marmite ?

Paully D

One of the most underrated players in the league. Excellent player.

G.K.

Has the game of the complete midfielder without having the quality to be a top-class one.

Excellent against the typical English opponent. Not great against continental/pressing opposition.

cson

From what I can see he suffers from some United fans thinking he should be a creative force as well as a hooverer upper in front of the defence. One of those solid but unspectacular players every winning team needs.

_blank_

He's rubbish.

endabob1

If he was Spanish I think he would be looked on differently. He's a class player, reads the game exceptionally well, doesn't win the ball with lunging tackles, steps up and intercepts a huge amount of ball, plays it very simply and retains possession very well.

I'm surprised he never chanced his arm in Europe, he reminds me a lot of Ray Wilkins as a player.

Samich

Des wrote: »

He's rubbish.

Uh-oh. Utd fans don't like you saying things without backing them up.

Fowler87

He's not a patch on Lucas prior to his injury as he got overrun too much in big games but he's a decent midfielder and had a good to end to last season

LostBoy101

Here we go again...

Chucky the tree

Lacks the athletic ability to be top quality.

_blank_

Fowler87 wrote: »

He's not a patch on Lucas

DM_7

Des wrote: »

He's rubbish.

It could be said that the suggestion that Carrick is rubbish is actually rubbish.







So I'll say it, your talking rubbish:p

Vic Vinegar

G.K. wrote: »

Has the game of the complete midfielder without having the quality to be a top-class one.

Excellent against the typical English opponent. Not great against continental/pressing opposition.

Nail on head there!

G.K.

endabob1 wrote: »

I'm surprised he never chanced his arm in Europe, he reminds me a lot of Ray Wilkins as a player.

He would be found out - his biggest weakness is coming under pressure, an area where the British game still lags behind, unfortunately.

Carrick is a top, top player for playing against a typical English team. He's top class defensively and in England often gets lots of space for his passing.

Giggsy11

G.K. wrote: »

He would be found out - his biggest weakness is coming under pressure, an area where the British game still lags behind, unfortunately.

Carrick is a top, top player for playing against a typical English team. He's top class defensively and in England often gets lots of space for his passing.

IMO would have done well in Serie A too.

Pro. F

Carrick is good defensively and extremely good at not committing fouls, which is a great asset in the modern game.

But he has a week first touch and close control, so he needs a lot of space to be able to use the ball. So overall he is not a very good central midfielder at all.

JaMarcus Hustle

G.K. wrote: »

Carrick is a top, top player for playing against a typical English team. He's top class defensively and in England often gets lots of space for his passing.

Yakult

Not very good technically, but hes a smart chap on the pitch and that makes up for what he lacks.

GSPfan

For the first season or two he was at United I actually loved him. Thought he was an absolute all rounder. Then something changed and he became this tippy tappy slow defensive shell of what he was.

Last season was a nice step in the direction of old times but I will be happy when United have better players to replace him.

SantryRed

This should be merged with the United superthread.

OctavarIan

SantryRed wrote: »

This should be merged with the United superthread.

No, please. The United superthread derails into an absolute shambles every time Carrick is mentioned.

JaMarcus Hustle

SantryRed wrote: »

This should be merged with the United superthread.

It has been.

For every fúcking minute of every fúcking day of every fúcking week since the bastard signed for us.

KombuchaMshroom

I don't post often in the United thread, usually just lurk to keep up to date on any news, especially don't like to get involved when the conversation goes downhill when Carrick is brought up, but since there's a specific thread for him now suppose I'll have my 2 cents.

For me he's grand, its as simple as that. He is clearly nothing spectacular but he does his job pretty well. For a few years I completely despised the man but this year I have started to see his use, as he does provide important support to the defence.
He provides us with absolutely nothing going forward any more though which is a big problem for me. Think it was away to Bolton in the 5th or 6th game of last season where he assisted a Hernandez goal, and it was his first time providing a goal or an assist in two years. If United played 3 men in the middle then that would be acceptable as then there is space for a purely defensive midfielder, but when you play only 2 there you can't have a player who is so limited i feel. Personally I think he needs to be replaced by a much more all round player like Fellaini.

As has been mentioned Carrick is effective against the majority of English opposition because United will for the most part be dominating teams and they will sit back, but when we've played against quality footballing teams in past few years he has been massively caught out.

The biggest problem I have with Carrick though is Ferguson's opinion of the man. To see Fergie in the media a few days ago saying that Carrick is key to our success next year is nothing short of frightening.
If someone else isn't brought in before then end of the transfer window to replace Carrick or at least provide more competition/support in that midfield I will be very worried about the season ahead.

Paul Tergat

I like Carrick. Does his job for us and does it well. The problem is who plays alongside him and not Carrick himself

bullvine

Decent player, had a decent season, does the simple things well but in no way should he be first choice in a Manchester United side looking to win the title back.

Sgt Pepper 64

Good enough for Utd

McGrath5

A very solid midfielder who will never do anything amazing, an asset to any squad IMO.

froog

an average centre mid. capable in the premiership. not really man united standard.

Pro. F

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I like Carrick. Does his job for us and does it well. The problem is who plays alongside him and not Carrick himself

He doesn't do the keeping effective possession aspect of his job well imo. He's fine against standard PL opposition who give acres of space, but he can't do anything when the opposition press up the pitch. He ends up contributing very little in those circumstances.

Sgt Pepper 64

The thing with Carrick, is, like a lot of the Utd squad, when you look at them individually, they seem kinda average.
But, as a team, they play well together and well, all those medals dont lie do they?

Mr Alan

endabob1 wrote: »

If he was Spanish I think he would be looked on differently.

Correct, but not in the way you mean. If he was Spanish, we'd never have heard of him.

froog wrote: »

an average centre mid. capable in the premiership. not really man united standard.

He's not average. He's a good player & he's clearly Utd standard.

DM_7

I think Carrick is a very good player. It was mid November before he got into the side as a regular last season and he steadied the team after a poor start defensively.

he is an intelligant guy capable of performing the role asked of him by the manager.

He is held back at United and turned into a deep lying player. He could actually do more in attack, as he has good attacking attributes we rarely get to see. He has really good ball striking ability, good vision, good passing ability, strong runner and height that would suit Uniteds attack since United put a lot of ball in the box from the wing.

I wish United had a player that freed him up to contribute to the attack but SAF isn't going to get one in.

as it is though he uses his defensive abilities well to help the team. He reads the game well allowing him make many interceptions. He moves the ball well and provides a good platform to build from. When the likes of Evans/Jones/Smalling bring the ball out of defence he provides good cover.

he gets criticised a lot for his problems when put under pressure. I think many of his problems come from it being too easy to pressure him. He is usually playing with Scholes or Giggs who are of little help to him and has a static rigid attack ahead of him so no real passing options when he does get on the ball.

I think Kagawa should help him a lot in the regard. Kagawa should provide a point in attack that allows some more movement from likes of Nani, Rooney, Welbeck where they can travel into space. This will give the midfield good passing options and/or take pressure off midfield as the opposition wont be able to press without leaving space behind them.

if another midfield player sould be found to partner him on a regular basis i'd be delighted.

in case its not obvious I like Carrick :-)

Will I Amnt

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

The thing with Carrick, is, like a lot of the Utd squad, when you look at them individually, they seem kinda average.
But, as a team, they play well together and well, all those medals dont lie do they?

Rooney,Scholes,Nani,Vidic,Kagawa,Valencia....and then there's the arguable ones.

I certainly wouldn't associate the word average with any of those players.
Look at most squads at big clubs and you would probably pick out a similar number of players you could say the same about,excluding Madrid and Barca obviously.
It's par for the course,every team has its players that do a job without standing out so much.

Paul Tergat

Pro. F wrote: »

He doesn't do the keeping effective possession aspect of his job well imo. He's fine against standard PL opposition who give acres of space, but he can't do anything when the opposition press up the pitch. He ends up contributing very little in those circumstances.

I would kinda agree with that. Good enough for the 90% but lacking for the other 10%. Again though, he does what he's told to do and I don't expect anymore from him than he shows. Its the player needed alongside him thats the problem.

Pro. F

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I would kinda agree with that. Good enough for the 90% but lacking for the other 10%. Again though, he does what he's told to do and I don't expect anymore from him than he shows. Its the player needed alongside him thats the problem.

I guarantee if you put Xavi or a young Scholes alongside Carrick he would still struggle in those games where the opposition close down the space.

Pro. F

DM-ICE wrote: »

He is held back at United and turned into a deep lying player. He could actually do more in attack, as he has good attacking attributes we rarely get to see. He has really good ball striking ability, good vision, good passing ability, strong runner and height that would suit Uniteds attack since United put a lot of ball in the box from the wing.

I have never heard anyone trying to say that he is any good in the air. I'm surprised you would see that as an asset of his.

I'd also say on his ability to strike the ball, he can hit a good long pass, but his shot is quite weak.

I don't really know what you mean by saying he is a strong runner. He's neither fast nor good at dribbling.

DM-ICE wrote: »

he gets criticised a lot for his problems when put under pressure. I think many of his problems come from it being too easy to pressure him. He is usually playing with Scholes or Giggs who are of little help to him and has a static rigid attack ahead of him so no real passing options when he does get on the ball.

I think Kagawa should help him a lot in the regard. Kagawa should provide a point in attack that allows some more movement from likes of Nani, Rooney, Welbeck where they can travel into space. This will give the midfield good passing options and/or take pressure off midfield as the opposition wont be able to press without leaving space behind them.

Nani, Welbeck, Rooney, Young, Evra, Rafael all move well and give good passing options. Rooney is probably one of the best forwards in the world for getting into good positions, both outside the box in build up play and inside for finishing off moves. I agree that Scholes and Giggs aren't the most mobile beside Carrick, but he still shows the same limitations when he has played beside more mobile players like Anderson and Fletcher.

Samich

What about Roy Keane, are you saying he was exceptional in possession? I don't think he was exceptional. Was still one of the best midfield partnerships to play in the PL. The stats show it was when Scholes was missing was when we lost points.

Pro. F

Samich wrote: »

What about Roy Keane, are you saying he was exceptional in possession? I don't think he was exceptional. Was still one of the best midfield partnerships to play in the PL.

Keane was very good on the ball. Light years ahead of Carrick in terms of controlling the ball.

Samich wrote: »

The stats show it was when Scholes was missing was when we lost points.

As I already pointed out to you Scholes was so essential last season because Anderson and Cleverley were injured and then Cleverley had some sort of falling out with Fergie, and Giggs is a poor CM. So Scholes was the only proper creative CM we had to call on in the second half of last season. It's not surprising points were dropped when he was out.

The same problem could arise this year if Cleverley and Anderson continue to be crocks. Powell might step up or he might not. If you think another creative CM is needed, fine. That doesn't mean that Carrick can't be improved on as well.

Samich

Pro. F wrote: »

Keane was very good on the ball. Light years ahead of Carrick in terms of controlling the ball.


As I already pointed out to you Scholes was so essential last season because Anderson and Cleverley were injured and then Cleverley had some sort of falling out with Fergie, and Giggs is a poor CM. So Scholes was the only proper creative CM we had to call on in the second half of last season. It's not surprising points were dropped when he was out.

The same problem could arise this year if Cleverley and Anderson continue to be crocks. Powell might step up or he might not. If you think another creative CM is needed, fine. That doesn't mean that Carrick can't be improved on as well.

Well I think it's harder to get a player like Scholes, who controls the tempo of a game.

But I'll agree to disagree.

Pro. F

Samich wrote: »

Well I think it's harder to get a player like Scholes, who controls the tempo of a game.

So?

Samich

Pro. F wrote: »

So?

What do you mean so?

Pro. F

Samich wrote: »

What do you mean so?

I mean, so what? What does it matter if it's harder to get a player like Scholes? How does that mean that Carrick is good enough for the United first team?

Samich

Pro. F wrote: »

I mean, so what? What does it matter if it's harder to get a player like Scholes? How does that mean that Carrick is good enough for the United first team?

It matters who Carrick plays with, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread.

FlawedGenius

DM-ICE wrote: »

I think Carrick is a very good player. It was mid November before he got into the side as a regular last season and he steadied the team after a poor start defensively.

he is an intelligant guy capable of performing the role asked of him by the manager.

He is held back at United and turned into a deep lying player. He could actually do more in attack, as he has good attacking attributes we rarely get to see. He has really good ball striking ability, good vision, good passing ability, strong runner and height that would suit Uniteds attack since United put a lot of ball in the box from the wing.

I wish United had a player that freed him up to contribute to the attack but SAF isn't going to get one in.

as it is though he uses his defensive abilities well to help the team. He reads the game well allowing him make many interceptions. He moves the ball well and provides a good platform to build from. When the likes of Evans/Jones/Smalling bring the ball out of defence he provides good cover.

he gets criticised a lot for his problems when put under pressure. I think many of his problems come from it being too easy to pressure him. He is usually playing with Scholes or Giggs who are of little help to him and has a static rigid attack ahead of him so no real passing options when he does get on the ball.

I think Kagawa should help him a lot in the regard. Kagawa should provide a point in attack that allows some more movement from likes of Nani, Rooney, Welbeck where they can travel into space. This will give the midfield good passing options and/or take pressure off midfield as the opposition wont be able to press without leaving space behind them.

if another midfield player sould be found to partner him on a regular basis i'd be delighted.

in case its not obvious I like Carrick :-)

Thats one thing he most certainly doesn't have. In his years at United I've never see him take a goal really well. There usually feeble little shots that trickle in. Don't think Ive ever seen him smash a shot on target that goes more than a foot off the groud, there always daisy cutters.
Like O Shea, Wes Brown, Chadwick etc and many other players Fergie has let go over the years they always end up looking rubbish at there new club. Carrick would be one of those, as would Fletcher.
Put it this way, would Carrick get into any of the top 4 sides and even Liverpool in the league? NO.
Slow, lanky, awkward, rubbish touch, can pick out a half decet ball when he has a minute of time on the ball with no one pressurig him, only knows how to play 4 yard passes against invisible walls. Thats Carrick.

Samich

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Thats one thing he most certainly doesn't have. In his years at United I've never see him take a goal really well. There usually feeble little shots that trickle in. Don't think Ive ever seen him smash a shot on target that goes more than a foot off the groud, there always daisy cutters.
Like O Shea, Wes Brown, Chadwick etc and many other players Fergie has let go over the years they always end up looking rubbish at there new club.
Carrick would be one of those, as would Fletcher.
Put it this way, would Carrick get into any of the top 4 sides and even Liverpool in the league? NO.
Slow, lanky, awkward, rubbish touch, can pick out a half decet ball when he has a minute of time on the ball with no one pressurig him, only knows how to play 4 yard passes against invisible walls. Thats Carrick.

Knows how to win!

Also he does have a sweet strike. Doesn't move much in the air which is why they're easy to save. And tries to get it on target more than not. Will never score if you don't hit the target. Anyways he's not there to score goals.

Pro. F

Samich wrote: »

It matters who Carrick plays with, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread.

What the fúck are you talking about? You asked me if I thought Keane was exceptional in possession and you mentioned about United dropping points when Scholes was out. I responded to both of those and then you tell me that you think it's harder to get a player like Scholes. So fúcking what? That wasn't what you asked me about and it doesn't make an argument for Carrick being good enough for United.

Pro. F

Samich wrote: »

Knows how to win!

Completely meaningless drivel. Knowing how to win is no use if he hasn't got the skills. Which he doesn't.

Samich wrote: »

Also he does have a sweet strike. Doesn't move much in the air which is why they're easy to save. And tries to get it on target more than not. Will never score if you don't hit the target. Anyways he's not there to score goals.

Carrick does not have an impressive shot on him. I agree that scoring goals is not what he is there for, but people try to say that he has a good shot as a justification for why they think he is a good player.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

I have never heard anyone trying to say that he is any good in the air. I'm surprised you would see that as an asset of his.

I said his height would be useful. If a guy like him broke in the box it would cause problems as he would need to be marked because of his height. Its not really worth getting bogged down in, he is not going t be asked to be the guy that breaks forward anyway.

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd also say on his ability to strike the ball, he can hit a good long pass, but his shot is quite weak.

I don't really know what you mean by saying he is a strong runner. He's neither fast nor good at dribbling.

He has a pretty accurate shot on him. He is composed and doesn't murder the ball. There is nothing wrong with that. In th middle of a long post i said good ball striking, when i should have said accurate shot

Strong runner is possibly a bad wording. I think he is a dangerous runner in regards, when gets in his stride he is very dangerous, if you back off he can get a shot off, if you press he has the vision to lay the ball off. He has good strength making him hard to get off the ball once he gets into his stride.

Pro. F wrote: »

Nani, Welbeck, Rooney, Young, Evra, Rafael all move well and give good passing options. Rooney is probably one of the best forwards in the world for getting into good positions, both outside the box in build up play and inside for finishing off moves. I agree that Scholes and Giggs aren't the most mobile beside Carrick, but he still shows the same limitations when he has played beside more mobile players like Anderson and Fletcher.

Carrick is a deep player, he needs people close to him finding space. Rooney, Welbeck, Nani, are all brilliant at finding space in advanced positions when the ball is already up the field. Often when Carrick is in possession they are too far away for him to give a pass. Kagawa though will bring a passing option closer to Carrick on a regular basis. If the player is not close then there is a good chance possession will be lost if Carrick tries to pass towards them.

Evra, Rafae are full backs, they only go up and down the wing, its easy to close off that passing option.