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Michael f*cking Carrick

2»

Comments

  • #52
    Samich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    Pro. F wrote: »
    What the fúck are you talking about? You asked me if I thought Keane was exceptional in possession and you mentioned about United dropping points when Scholes was out. I responded to both of those and then you tell me that you think it's harder to get a player like Scholes. So fúcking what? That wasn't what you asked me about and it doesn't make an argument for Carrick being good enough for United.

    My God Pro F, it's very hard to engage in debate with ya. You always want direct answers to YOUR post. A man can't go off slightly at all to expand on a point.


  • #53
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    DM-ICE wrote: »
    I said his height would be useful. If a guy like him broke in the box it would cause problems as he would need to be marked because of his height. Its not really worth getting bogged down in, he is not going t be asked to be the guy that breaks forward anyway.

    All players need to be marked when they break into the box tbf. It doesn't matter what height they are.
    DM-ICE wrote: »
    He has a pretty accurate shot on him. He is composed and doesn't murder the ball. There is nothing wrong with that.

    Strong runner is possibly a bad wording. I think he is a dangerous runner in regards, when gets in his stride he is very dangerous, if you back off he can get a shot off, if you press he has the vision to lay the ball off. He has good strength making him hard to get off the ball once he gets into his stride.

    I think you are ascribing strengths to Carrick that he doesn't have. His shot isn't impressive in the slightest, his dribbling isn't impressive in the slightest and he's not quick. So he is not that much of a threat when he is breaking forward with the ball imo.
    DM-ICE wrote: »
    Carrick is a deep player, he needs people close to him finding space. Rooney, Welbeck, Nani, are all brilliant at finding space in advanced positions when the ball is already up the field. Often when Carrick is in possession they are too far away for him to give a pass. Kagawa though will bring a passing option closer to Carrick on a regular basis. If the player is not close then there is a good chance possession will be lost if Carrick tries to pass towards them.

    Evra, Rafae are full backs, they only go up and down the wing, its easy to close off that passing option.

    I doubt Kagawa will make Carrick better in possession. We'll see I suppose.


  • #54
    Samich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Completely meaningless drivel. Knowing how to win is no use if he hasn't got the skills. Which he doesn't.


    Commentators often say "they've been there, done that".

    Having the Man Utd mentality and never say die attitude can't be bought from a market.


  • #55
    Paul Tergat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,772 ✭✭✭✭Paul Tergat


    Pro. F wrote: »
    I guarantee if you put Xavi or a young Scholes alongside Carrick he would still struggle in those games where the opposition close down the space.

    Cant really guarantee that now can ya?

    I get Carrick has limitations but he's a good player and some are way too critical of him.


  • #56
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Samich wrote: »
    Commentators often say "they've been there, done that".

    Having the Man Utd mentality and never say die attitude can't be bought from a market.

    None of that refutes what I said. Attitude is not enough if the player doesn't have the skill.


  • #57
    Samich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    Pro. F wrote: »
    None of that refutes what I said. Attitude is not enough if the player doesn't have the skill.

    Carrick is not skill-less. He's not the best player ever. Gets the required job done.

    We were an absolute shambles in the CL last season, replacing Carrick won't make a massive massive difference to that.


  • #58
    DM_7
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,428 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    FlawedGenius wrote: »
    Thats one thing he most certainly doesn't have. In his years at United I've never see him take a goal really well. There usually feeble little shots that trickle in. Don't think Ive ever seen him smash a shot on target that goes more than a foot off the groud, there always daisy cutters.

    Your right, I meant he has an accurate shot on him.
    He has scored a few nice goals in his time. Two excellent strikes against Roma spring to mind (I know its a long time ago:P).


  • #59
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Samich wrote: »
    Carrick is not skill-less. He's not the best player ever. Gets the required job done.

    We were an absolute shambles in the CL last season, replacing Carrick won't make a massive massive difference to that.

    I didn't say that he is skill-less. He just doesn't have the level of skill required.

    He absolutely does not get the job required done. When the opposition presses up he becomes useless as a central midfielder.

    Replacing Carrick would make a big difference to how the team competes in Europe.


  • #60
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Paul Tergat wrote: »
    Cant really guarantee that now can ya?

    I get Carrick has limitations but he's a good player and some are way too critical of him.

    Yeah I can. I guarantee it 100%

    I'm not way too critical of him. You just go to easy on him. You think that it is ok for a central midfielder to need time and space on the ball, but it just isn't. It holds the team back a lot.


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  • #61
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Carrick: Looks ok when given time & space but goes missing when put under pressure.Any team that plays a pressing game gives Carrick nightmares.
    A lot of bull talked about him being a 'quarterback' type player,Scholes is more like this as he can spray the ball about at will whereas Carrick's limit is usually 5 yards.

    For a while he looked as if his days at United were numbered but Fergie has a new found love for him for some reason yet we are crying out for a central midfielder.


  • #62
    Samich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    zerks wrote: »
    Carrick: Looks ok when given time & space but goes missing when put under pressure.Any team that plays a pressing game gives Carrick nightmares.
    A lot of bull talked about him being a 'quarterback' type player,Scholes is more like this as he can spray the ball about at will whereas Carrick's limit is usually 5 yards.

    For a while he looked as if his days at United were numbered but Fergie has a new found love for him for some reason yet we are crying out for a central midfielder.

    He was vital last season.


  • #63
    DM_7
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,428 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    Pro. F wrote: »
    All players need to be marked when they break into the box tbf. It doesn't matter what height they are.

    Well yes, but players with height are more likely to catch the eye of a centre half and pull him out of position.
    Pro. F wrote: »
    I think you are ascribing strengths to Carrick that he doesn't have. His shot isn't impressive in the slightest, his dribbling isn't impressive in the slightest and he's not quick. So he is not that much of a threat when he is breaking forward with the ball imo.

    Carrick scores what? Two goals last season its not a great return I know but his normal role was to sit deep. Both goals were accurate shots.
    He scored a left footed, curled into far post v Bolton.

    One of them he won the ball in midfield and ran a long way with it. Initially intercepted the ball, held off the QPR midfielder. Nice bit of skill to make space, ran forward, cut back across the QPR player that couldn't catch him and in the end he hit an accurate shot and scored nice goal (Which is an example of why I think he could contribute more going forward).

    Again its never going to happen as its not the role SAF will be asking of him.
    Pro. F wrote: »
    I doubt Kagawa will make Carrick better in possession. We'll see I suppose.

    I am basing my hope/belief on how Carrick often finds himself in possession with no United attacker or midfielder within 10 yards of him. I am hoping Kagawa's positioning will help with that and lessen number of times likes of Giggs, Cleverley, Anderson to burst forward and take a close passing option away.

    Of course it might not work like that but I hope it will - it doesn't look like another player is coming in.

    EDIT: I should add I like Carrick, but that doesn't mean I can't see its possible to improve on him.

    I think he has a role to play and if United go back to way they played when Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez were up front I would be fine with Carrick being one of the two midfield players.


  • #64
    Paul Tergat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,772 ✭✭✭✭Paul Tergat


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Yeah I can. I guarantee it 100%

    I'm not way too critical of him. You just go to easy on him. You think that it is ok for a central midfielder to need time and space on the ball, but it just isn't. It holds the team back a lot.

    The second part of the post wasnt actually aimed at you mate. It was a general observation. There's no way I am too easy on him. He does the job he is there for. A lot of people expect things from him that he isnt in the side to do.

    One last time though, you cannot guarantee it and its pretty stupid to try and claim its 100%


  • #65
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Samich wrote: »
    He was vital last season.

    Had a decent season but got found out in Europe especially when teams squeezed the spaces,he didn't have the guile or strength to deal with the pressing game.
    A mate of mine calls him "the man with no heart".For a big guy,he gets bullied on the field too easily then panic sets in.

    In years to come when we are talking about United legends & icons,I doubt he'll crop up much in any debate.


  • #66
    Samich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭Samich


    zerks wrote: »
    Had a decent season but got found out in Europe especially when teams squeezed the spaces,he didn't have the guile or strength to deal with the pressing game.
    A mate of mine calls him "the man with no heart".For a big guy,he gets bullied on the field too easily then panic sets in.

    In years to come when we are talking about United legends & icons,I doubt he'll crop up much in any debate.

    Neither will Berbatov, was still vital the season before last.


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  • #67
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Paul Tergat wrote: »
    The second part of the post wasnt actually aimed at you mate. It was a general observation. There's no way I am too easy on him. He does the job he is there for. A lot of people expect things from him that he isnt in the side to do.

    You can't have a central midfielder who isn't in the side to link the back four with the rest of the team. That is an essential part of a CMs job and any CM who struggles doing that is a liability to a top tier team. Carrick struggles doing that job.
    Paul Tergat wrote: »
    One last time though, you cannot guarantee it and its pretty stupid to try and claim its 100%
    That was just a joke man.


  • #68
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    DM-ICE wrote: »
    Well yes, but players with height are more likely to catch the eye of a centre half and pull him out of position.

    I don't agree that it makes much if any difference.
    DM-ICE wrote: »
    Carrick scores what? Two goals last season its not a great return I know but his normal role was to sit deep. Both goals were accurate shots.
    He scored a left footed, curled into far post v Bolton.

    One of them he won the ball in midfield and ran a long way with it. Initially intercepted the ball, held off the QPR midfielder. Nice bit of skill to make space, ran forward, cut back across the QPR player that couldn't catch him and in the end he hit an accurate shot and scored nice goal (Which is an example of why I think he could contribute more going forward).

    Again its never going to happen as its not the role SAF will be asking of him.

    I don't think a few runs and goals proves anything. Carrick doesn't have an impressive shot or impressive dribbling skills or much pace. I don't think any of that should be up for debate tbh.
    DM-ICE wrote: »
    EDIT: I should add I like Carrick, but that doesn't mean I can't see its possible to improve on him.

    I think he has a role to play and if United go back to way they played when Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez were up front I would be fine with Carrick being one of the two midfield players.

    I don't think Carrick was impressive back when Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney were playing either. United mostly played a defensive counter attacking style in Europe at that time and just left it up to those guys to get goals on the break. Carrick still played the same then as he does now, i.e. not particularly well in possession.


  • #69
    Paul Tergat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,772 ✭✭✭✭Paul Tergat


    Pro. F wrote: »
    You can't have a central midfielder who isn't in the side to link the back four with the rest of the team. That is an essential part of a CMs job and any CM who struggles doing that is a liability to a top tier team. Carrick struggles doing that job.

    He doesnt against the 90% of teams we come up against. Again, the problem is lack of help alongside him imo. I've no doubt we can sign better players than Carrick but he isn't the immediate problem.

    Pro. F wrote: »
    That was just a joke man.

    D'oh


  • #70
    SirDelboy18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭SirDelboy18


    Some people won't remove the blinkers no matter what. The best English CM in the league last year and is perfect for the way United play.

    Had a bad spell in 2010 but has bounced back and has performed very well on a consistent basis.

    Often him being caught under pressure is when he plays next to the likes of Giggs, who likes to have a stroll around the middle and offers little to nothing in the way of help. Had a spell playing alongside Fletcher too in 10-11 when Fletch was complete sh*te.

    Clicks with Scholes more often than not, but the two need help when they play 3-man midfields.


  • #71
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Paul Tergat wrote: »
    He doesnt against the 90% of teams we come up against. Again, the problem is lack of help alongside him imo. I've no doubt we can sign better players than Carrick but he isn't the immediate problem.

    Yeah I agree that he doesn't struggle against 90% of the teams United faces. He's grand for those types of games and the fact that he doesn't pick up bookings, lose concentration, get injured or act the bollocks in any way is a big bonus for those 90% type games.

    I disagree that it is the lack of help alongside him that is the problem when playing the more difficult 10%. I think he would struggle no matter who was playing beside him in those games. But that is where we disagree.
    Paul Tergat wrote: »
    D'oh
    :)


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  • #72
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    SirDelboy18 wrote: »
    Some people won't remove the blinkers no matter what. The best English CM in the league last year and is perfect for the way United play.

    That's hardly something to be lauded over. English CMs are a particularly talentless bunch in general.

    And he wasn't even the best anyway. Leon Britton was.
    SirDelboy18 wrote: »
    Had a bad spell in 2010 but has bounced back and has performed very well on a consistent basis.

    Often him being caught under pressure is when he plays next to the likes of Giggs who likes to have a stroll around the middle and offers little to nothing in the way of help. Had a spell playing alongside Fletcher too in 10-11 when Fletch was complete sh*te.

    Clicks with Scholes more often than not, but the two need help when they play 3-man midfields.

    Carrick struggles when the opposition press even when he plays beside Scholes. And he has also struggled when played in three man central midfields.


  • #73
    Paul Tergat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,772 ✭✭✭✭Paul Tergat


    Pro. F wrote: »

    I disagree that it is the lack of help alongside him that is the problem when playing the more difficult 10%. I think he would struggle no matter who was playing beside him in those games. But that is where we disagree.


    :)

    Aye I think thats pretty much where we differ. I think he is capable.


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