Unpopular hip hop opinions.

CecilBlunt

Live rap albums are rubbish.

Talib Fiasco

CecilBlunt wrote: »

Live rap albums are rubbish.

I'd agree were it not for Live at The Middle East by Mr. Lif and Live from Planet X by DOOM. Them two are great.

pragmatic1

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Also, Illmatic is better than anything Tupac ever recorded, as far as I'm concerned.

Easily. Tupac is like the Kurt Cobain of hip hop.

Da Shins Kelly

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

They do it because they respect his music and/or he influenced them. I do not see what a multi-millionaire like Dre has to gain by falsely pushing 2pacs legacy (he made nothing from the hologram performance after you take out the donation and the time, effort and money put into it and he hardly needs the promotion).

That is where it comes down to opinion. Some people prefer production over lyrics for example or even just prefer one album over another even if they are both solid. That is not really a good way to compare albums/artists though imo. A pool of critics comes to a consensus yes they are going to leave out certain artists but on the whole they and fans and the other 2 come up with the best way to compare things imo.

It is called a consensus and of course it is not definitive and of course people do not agree with it.

It is the unpopular thread and I am not trying to change anyones mind. On Biggie as I have said before he is far from top 5 he is not top 5 from Brooklyn and he is not even the best dead fat NY rapper with Big in his name.

Of course it's all down to opinion which is why it's pretty pointless arguing these things, but if it's consensus you're looking for I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that All Eyez On Me is better than Illmatic. Like, ever.

floggg

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

(1)Sales, (2)Notoriety/impact/longevity and (3)reviews (by critics and fans).

A mix of all 3 is the best way I can think of to compare albums and rappers to each other.

Agreed on Ras Kass. On a related note, HRSMN were better than Slaughterhouse.

Imagine that at the start of his career, 2pac had somehow got himself blacklisted from radio and tv (e.g. for doing whatever Trae the Truth is meant to have done in Houston), so that he never blew up or got famous. However, he did still release every single one of the albums he released in real life, so that his body of work is the same in this imaginary universe.

Somehow you stumble upon his catalogue and listen to everything by this unknown dead rapper.

Are his albums any worse because they have no sale/notoriety? Do you recognise his talent but feel compelled to exclude him from G.O.A.T. lists for not being famous?

Or does skill and talent speak for itself regardless of what MTV think?

As to why he is over estimated by people, there are many reasons:

- to quote Jadakiss, dead rappers get better promotion;

- people tend to say overly nice things about dead people in life generally;

- his early death allows him to be romanticised;

- he is seen as a kind of tragic hero/anti-hero, standing up for the poor and fighting injustice while still embroiling himself needlessly in controversy and violent situations;

- the East v West beef and the resulting "with us or against us attitude" galvanised fans of either side into die hard;

- his paranoid predictions of his death, copious amount of work he left behind and unsolved murder feed conspiracy theories which just feeds into his "legend"; and

- like many rappers, his charisma and character allows people to gloss over his relative lack of skills compared to genuine G.O.A.T. contenders.

Now, I can entirely understand why he would be your favourite rapper, but there is a difference between favourite and greatest. For example, Murs is one of my favourite rappers, but I know he doesn't have the skills to honestly compete for Top 5 dead or alive status.

You put Murs or Pac up against Nas, Phaorohe Monch, Jay-Z, Andre or Big Boi, and they will be out rapped everyday of the week (Big Boi's flow and delivery outweighs any perceived weakness in lyrical ability compared to the others in my book).

As hip-hop fans, surely most of us would prefer to go with skills over radio play when considered the greatest?

Camac Hibs

Cant say any of Tupac's music appeals to me, I find his flow boring. Although theres a couple of digital underground tunes with him on it that are decent.

other unpopular opinions

more an uncomfortable one - when I listen to wu-tang related output now that I used to love, im not feeling a lot of it. I think Ghostface and Raekwon in particular are a little overrated. I have no idea what they are on about most of the time.

Even more uncomfortable - Black Thought remains one of my favourite emcees of all time, but Im not sure he has it anymore. Roots releases are still pretty good overall but he sounds like hes getting a bit lazy.

Outkast - first 3 albums are classics and Southernplayalistic would be in my top 5, but they lost me a little when they started getting freaky with it.

Kanye West is a bellend of the highest order but is capable of producing some great music. The College Dropout is a masterpiece.

Irish hip hop is in good health at the moment. Serious and professional sounding music is starting to emerge and it is maturing from what has been perceived, apparently even by some artists themselves, as a novelty genre. There is a lot of cringeworthy ****e around but there is no point in focusing on it. On that note, G.I. of Workin Class Records is for me one of the top young producers around, not in Ireland but in the whole game.

Some rappers need to know when to bow out gracefully. Im thinking Ice Cube, Rakim specifically but there are several more

Masta Ace should get more props. An influence to countless rappers who made it big and he still puts out quality albums.

I could have probably survived in the past year or so purely on a diet of releases by Mello Music Group.

Boom_Bap

Camac Hibs wrote: »

On that note, G.I. of Workin Class Records is for me one of the top young producers around, not in Ireland but in the whole game.


I could have probably survived in the past year or so purely on a diet of releases by Mello Music Group.

GI is also the best Irish rapper out there at the moment. Has serious skills.

Mello Music Group are excellent. I have big news related to Mello that I have to keep under wraps for the time being, something I shouldnt know but do
All their releases are outstanding, specifically Oddisee's new album. I also regularly listen to Everything Changed Nothing by Trek Life.

An uppopular but perhaps popular opinion of mine is that Drake and that other producer dude have NO business touching Aaliyah's unreleased work. It should be Missy, Timbo and R.Kelly involved.

conor.hogan.2

floggg wrote: »

Are his albums any worse because they have no sale/notoriety?

I never said lyrics and production were not important, I said they are pretty much down to personal taste and comparing them is very very very hard as some people will not rate albums because of lack of good production which has no bearing on the rapper imo.

Sage Francis is one of my favorite rappers, does not mean he is in my top 5. 2pac is up there not just because I like his music. His lyrics, style, charisma and sales speak for themselves also his influence on hip-hop speaks for itself. But it is easier to brush him off as hip-hops Nirvana.

floggg wrote: »

As hip-hop fans, surely most of us would prefer to go with skills over radio play when considered the greatest?

I rarely hear him on the radio. I do however hear his multiple classic albums and his constant influence on new great rappers and constant reference to his work. Ie he is respected by your favorite rapper most likely.

Also are people deliberately ignoring the impact/longevity aspect and the 2 other aspects? It is a mix of those 5 things that imo is best when comparing things as otherwise you get bogged down in lyrics over beats for example when they play their part in reviews/critics.

Da Shins Kelly

Boom_Bap wrote: »

An uppopular but perhaps popular opinion of mine is that Drake and that other producer dude have NO business touching Aaliyah's unreleased work. It should be Missy, Timbo and R.Kelly involved.

How has it transpired that Drake has ended up working on it?

conor.hogan.2

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

How has it transpired that Drake has ended up working on it?

I imagine he/his label bought the rights off the owner/label or the owner/label gave it to him to put out so they could make more money off it.

Da Shins Kelly

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I imagine he/his label bought the rights off the owner/label or the owner/label gave it to him to put out so they could make more money off it.

I don't understand why it's not Timbaland.

conor.hogan.2

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I don't understand why it's not Timbaland.

The owner wants more money I imagine and Drake outsells Timbaland.

Da Shins Kelly

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

The owner wants more money I imagine and Drake outsells Timbaland.

Does he? I would have thought that Timbaland was far more successful as a producer?

Boom_Bap

Drake is apparently an uber Aaliyah fan and somehow wangled the executive production on the album. Maybe the rights are owned by the same label or something.

But, I've heard that Timmy and Missy will now be involved, but not as exec producers.

Father Damo

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Could you have picked worse comparisons? Busted are a bunch of gimps and Skrillex is a complete turkey.

So is Andre.

Except his dress sense is nearly, but not quite, as bad as that of Skrillex.

You strike me as the type of person who heard, "Roses" and "Hey ya!" and just decided andre was shít, and if that's true you're simply being ignorant.
.

Roses
Hey Ya
BOB
Ms Jackson
Prototype
Ghetto Music
The Whole World


How much rubbish like the above can an artist put out and still be rated as innovative and unique?

conor.hogan.2

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Does he? I would have thought that Timbaland was far more successful as a producer?

He has gotten a ft on the first track, that will do much more for sales than ft Missy in 2012+ unfortunately.

Bobby Baccala

Father Damo wrote: »

So is Andre.

Except his dress sense is nearly, but not quite, as bad as that of Skrillex.




Roses
Hey Ya
BOB
Ms Jackson
Prototype
Ghetto Music
The Whole World


How much rubbish like the above can an artist put out and still be rated as innovative and unique?

BOB is considered one of their greatest tracks, I'm not a fan of it though, too fast paced for my liking.

Ms Jackson won a grammy. In fact it's one of the best songs of the 00s if you ask me, both men put their heart and soul into their verses, kidding yourself if you're calling that rubbish.

Hey Ya , won a grammy.

The Whole World, won a grammy.

Not much rubbish there pal.

Maybe Andre just isnt for you but from what i can tell, most people that are into a bit of hip hop like him and his talent.

Da Shins Kelly

Father Damo wrote: »

So is Andre.

Except his dress sense is nearly, but not quite, as bad as that of Skrillex.




Roses
Hey Ya
BOB
Ms Jackson
Prototype
Ghetto Music
The Whole World


How much rubbish like the above can an artist put out and still be rated as innovative and unique?

:rolleyes:

Jimmy Iovine

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

BOB is considered one of their greatest tracks, I'm not a fan of it though, too fast paced for my liking.

Ms Jackson won a grammy. In fact it's one of the best songs of the 00s if you ask me, both men put their heart and soul into their verses, kidding yourself if you're calling that rubbish.

Hey Ya , won a grammy.

The Whole World, won a grammy.

Not much rubbish there pal.

Maybe Andre just isnt for you but from what i can tell, most people that are into a bit of hip hop like him and his talent.

Not worth your time even responding to that post. Save yourself for other ones.

Father Damo

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

BOB is considered one of their greatest tracks, I'm not a fan of it though, too fast paced for my liking.

Ms Jackson won a grammy. In fact it's one of the best songs of the 00s if you ask me, both men put their heart and soul into their verses, kidding yourself if you're calling that rubbish.

I thought it was quite decent when it first came out. Then again at the time I was about 14 and also thought that Scooter were the pinacle of German electronica and dance culture, so my tastes have advanced somewhat since then.

It is cheese. And the hook, like most Andre hooks, is woeful.

Ms Jackson won a grammy.

Hey Ya , won a grammy.

The Whole World, won a grammy.

Brings us nicely back to my point about Skrillex, that you dont necessarily have to make good music to win one.


Answer me this- would you gladly pay money to see Outkast live performing the above pop nonsense, or would you rather their set consist mostly of their first album? I just find it unbelieveable that the first alum can be of such quality (there is not one filler track on it) and when they put out atrocious radio friendly cheese the music press laud it as innovative, unique, experimental, and whatever other buzzword they can pull out of their arse.

Da Shins Kelly

So moving on from the above nonsense...

Don't know exactly how unpopular the following are but, I'm not a huge fan of Childish Gambino. Could take him or leave him. Like some of his stuff, but wouldn't be rushing out to get his album or to see him live. Also, Lupe has released some good stuff in the past, but for the most part I've been pretty disappointed with his material. I think he could have been a lot better than he is.

Jimmy Iovine

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

So moving on from the above nonsense...

Don't know exactly how unpopular the following are but, I'm not a huge fan of Childish Gambino. Could take him or leave him. Like some of his stuff, but wouldn't be rushing out to get his album or to see him live. Also, Lupe has released some good stuff in the past, but for the most part I've been pretty disappointed with his material. I think he could have been a lot better than he is.

Some of the tunes off his first mixtape/album (can't remember which) were very good. Same with his second one. Some very, very good tunes on that. Haven't bothered listening to it all.

Seaneh

In my opinion, Snoop is ****e, always has been, like, absolute muck.

I'd say that's fairly unpopular.


Same goes for Pac actually, never been a fan, lyrics as deep as a puddle.

conor.hogan.2

^^^

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

So moving on from the above nonsense..

Childish Gambino is easily one of the better new rappers out atm. (well he originally came out in 2008 but 2011 was his debut album)

Jimmy Iovine

Seaneh wrote: »

In my opinion, Snoop is ****e, always has been, like, absolute muck.

Some of the stuff he has put out in recent years has been muck enough but "Doggystyle" is a classic and sure "The Chronic" was pretty much his album considering the amount of appearances that he made on it.

Seaneh

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Some of the stuff he has put out in recent years has been muck enough but "Doggystyle" is a classic and sure "The Chronic" was pretty much his album considering the amount of appearances that he made on it.

Just never liked snoop, ever.

mufcboy1999

It's a shame pac and snoop can't be as good as mr "we da best" dj kahled.

Da Shins Kelly

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

^^^

Childish Gambino is easily one of the better new rappers out atm. (well he originally came out in 2008 but 2011 was his debut album)

In your opinion.

Seaneh

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

In your opinion.

An opinion a lot of people would disagree with.

I think he's ok. has a few decent songs, camp wasn't bad.

Would he have a music career if he wasn't already known as a writer for 30 Rock and starred in Community? Not a bloody chance.
There are infinitely better rappers who've emerged since 2008 who don't get as much love as him.

conor.hogan.2

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

In your opinion.

Who else? Of course it is my opinion.

His fame as an actor/comedian has if anything hindered his success as a rapper. Oh and just assume imo is after every single word above if it helps you.

I can think of one rapper who people would say is better but CG is not a carbon copy on a WTC member so imo is better.

Seaneh

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

It's a shame pac and snoop can't be as good as mr "we da best" dj kahled.

Well one of them's dead and the other writes about as much of his lyrics as Khaled does and doesn't make half as much money.

All in all, I'd say Khaled is winning here.


Also, I'm not a Khaled fan but that track ****s on anything Snoop has released in 20 years, from a very high height.

Go listen to some G-unit mixtapes and fantasise about "slinging rock" if 50.
You've probably as much "g" credentials as he does.

Bobby Baccala

Temperature's Rising by Mobb Deep is one of the greatest hip hop songs of all time. Q-Tips production on it is just brilliant.

mufcboy1999

Well one of them's dead and the other writes about as much of his lyrics as Khaled does and doesn't make half as much money.

All in all, I'd say Khaled is winning here.

Both of them are legends full stop. Khaled should not be in the same conversation as pac and snoop ever! even if snoop has fallen off. Please dont make me post up some khaled songs , because this is the first decent song iv ever heard from him and tbh its not his song at all either. This is a nas/scarface collab please do not kid yourself.

Also, I'm not a Khaled fan but that track ****s on anything Snoop has released in 20 years, from a very high height.

ye right cough cough :rolleyes:. Anything snoop has released in 20 years, are you serioulsy just stupid? gin & juice, whats my name etc all a ring a bell as being better than this. Doggystyle is a classic dont insult yourself even more by saying its not.

Go listen to some G-unit mixtapes and fantasise about "slinging rock" if 50.
You've probably as much "g" credentials as he does.

im not even replying to this part as 50 is irrelevant to the topic despite him having a real connection/beef with the supreme team i.e not just rolling with them as a youth like nas only to fall in with them proper after he blew up just like ja rule and murder inc. btw you do relies 50 use to be with nas's bravehearts? educate yourself before you start talking rubbish.

but please tell me where i said nas was fake and stop bringing up 50 and showing yourself up as a fool.

Seaneh

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Khaled should not be in the same conversation as pac and snoop ever!

Then why did you bring his name into it?

mufcboy1999

Seaneh wrote: »

Then why did you bring his name into it?

it was an expression as in you cant pretty much call snoop & pac sh*t and on the other hand defend a dj in khaled who's milking a nas/scarface song.

Seaneh

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

it was an expression as in you cant pretty much call snoop & pac sh*t and on the other hand defend a dj in khaled who's milking a nas/scarface song.

I didn't.

I posted a song, I don't care who's name's on it.

You're the one obsessed with Khaled.

Only thing I like about Khaled is he has a a good ear for beats, period.

wish he's stop shouting over beats but that's no different than swizz beats or a million other dj's/producers/mixtape dj's.

Jimmy Iovine

Seaneh wrote: »

Also, I'm not a Khaled fan but that track ****s on anything Snoop has released in 20 years, from a very high height.

It's a good track but that is a ridiculous statement to make.

mufcboy1999

Seaneh wrote: »

I didn't.

I posted a song, I don't care who's name's on it.

You're the one obsessed with Khaled.

Only thing I like about Khaled is he has a a good ear for beats, period.

wish he's stop shouting over beats but that's no different than swizz beats or a million other dj's/producers/mixtape dj's.

i said it was a good song though because it is, infact its defiantly one of the better tracks this year so far. I just said its no thanks to khaled and happened to call him and his click frauds and because thats how i feel about them.

I said i shouldn't of called nas up on his lyrics which conor was right about but thats just how i felt but it wasnt the thread for it. I wasn't calling nas fake at all not by any means. I love the hip hop especially out of that queens borough infact more so than any other borough in new york. They've produced some great talents and some of my favorite rappers, nas is hands down their best MC. I know everything that went down with supreme team, nas, murder inc, 50, jam master jay etc tbh it fascinated me because I use to always hear about supreme in queens rappers rhymes i.e nas memory lane, 50 ghetto quaran (that pretty much got him shot), the jam master jay murder etc.

Iv never heard khaled rapping at all, his game is shouting on tracks thats why i often refer to him as talentless, harsh but its how i feel. I personally don't like 9/10 of his beats from what i heard of them but i dont listen to him at all really he's not on my radar.

Seaneh

Khaled is a mixtape DJ, like Clue or Drama or KJ Slay or Green Lantren or Don Cannon.... etc... He just picks a beat and gets some rappers to lay verses and then publishes it.

Bobby Baccala

Seaneh wrote: »

He just picks a beat and gets some rappers to lay verses and then publishes it.

so where's the talent in that?

Seaneh

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

so where's the talent in that?

There is none, besides an ear for beats, but he's living off it so fair ****ing play to him.

mufcboy1999

Seaneh wrote: »

Khaled is a mixtape DJ, like Clue or Drama or KJ Slay or Green Lantren or Don Cannon.... etc... He just picks a beat and gets some rappers to lay verses and then publishes it.

if he's a mixtape dj he should stick to mixtapes and not release albums. Mixtapes are about paying the dj to promote your music, khaled is paying rappers to promote his music even though it cant really be called his music because he contributes nothing other than a few shouts.

tbh i started to hate khaled when he ran from gunit after the vma's in the mid 00s, he's a b*tch. When 50's beef with officer ross started to get out of control a few years ago, khaled got involved 50 sent people to his mothers work after he mocked 50s son and khaled done nothing the same way that fat cop done nothing when 50 had his kids and his ex wife at floyd mayweathers house. Khaled and his crew are bi*hes, so when i see them portraying this tough image and lyrics it makes me laugh because on the topic of being real and being a "g" like you said, there sure isnt much proof other than one was a cop and the other is too much of a woman to retaliate when someone is at his mothers troat. funk flex and a whole host of other hip hop heads had to intervene and stop this beef after this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GynEb3CYJo

Talib Fiasco

I got one. Prodigy was the 'King of New York' from 95-97. Yes above Nas, Jay-Z, BIG etc.

Seaneh

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

if he's a mixtape dj he should stick to mixtapes and not release albums. Mixtapes are about paying the dj to promote your music, khaled is paying rappers to promote his music even though it cant really be called his music because he contributes nothing other than a few shouts.

tbh i started to hate khaled when he ran from gunit after the vma's in the mid 00s, he's a b*tch. When 50's beef with officer ross started to get out of control a few years ago, khaled got involved 50 sent people to his mothers work after he mocked 50s son and khaled done nothing the same way that fat cop done nothing when 50 had his kids and his ex wife at floyd mayweathers house. Khaled and his crew are bi*hes, so when i see them portraying this tough image and lyrics it makes me laugh because on the topic of being real and being a "g" like you said, there sure isnt much proof other than one was a cop and the other is too much of a woman to retaliate when someone is at his mothers troat. funk flex and a whole host of other hip hop heads had to intervene and stop this beef after this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GynEb3CYJo

THEY ARE ALL FAKE.

NONE OF THEM ARE "G".

THEY ARE ****ING ENTERTAINERS.



Wow people didn't "retaliate" when some gob****e trie to intimidate them, whoop.


50 ran to ****ing Connecticut when he was stabbed ffs, he didn't retaliate.

He got the **** beaten out of him in Marcy by someone he'd know since they were 12 and then tried to say it never happened, he didn't retaliate.

50's as much of a "fake" as any of them.

And he makes **** music.

Bobby Baccala

Seaneh wrote: »

THEY ARE ALL FAKE.

NONE OF THEM ARE "G".

THEY ARE ****ING ENTERTAINERS.

Will you ever calm the fúck down.

Seaneh

TheComeUp wrote: »

I got one. Prodigy was the 'King of New York' from 95-97. Yes above Nas, Jay-Z, BIG etc.

Bobby Baccala

TheComeUp wrote: »

I got one. Prodigy was the 'King of New York' from 95-97. Yes above Nas, Jay-Z, BIG etc.

That is a controversial one alright, there was a shít load of talent in that area in the mid-late 90s but it was mostly diddys artists that got all the aclaim because of how big he was at the time. I do rate Prodigy extremely high though, everything he did on The Infamous was pure perfection.

Personally i rate Reasonable Doubt ahead of both of bigs albums and the Infamous and I'd probably rate it about even with Illmatic.

Talib Fiasco

Seaneh wrote: »

Well in that period he had two great albums. Nas had one. BIG had one. Jay had one great one and one decent one. So based on material released he is the best in those years. And had he one bad verse or even track in those two albums? Jay had more than one average track (I can think of one already on RD), so had BIG and It Was Written isn't really loved eventhough it's my favourite album by Nas. Damn right it's a controversial pick as Paddy said but you can't deny there isn't proof or logic to it. Prodigy was up there with the most respected and feared rappers of that time, if not the most.

Seaneh

Seaneh

There was a lot of good stuff coming out of NY at the time... calling anyone "King og New York" is silly IMHO.