Killing people to protect animals?

Scioch

Interesting how most people would call the death penalty barbaric but will always be able to justify it to themselves in some way.

Killing someone who poaches rhino's and justifying it by saying he was caught in the act is no different than saying its ok to kill a shoplifter if you catch him in the act.

And this isnt about human life vs animal life its about human actions which contradict the laws and aims of society at large. If you say kill them then I assume all you people support police shooting to kill when hapening on a crime in progress ? A crime is a crime and thats all poaching is, I see no reason it should be treated or seen any differently than any other crime or why the judicial system should be ignored in relation to those who commit this particular crime.

el dude

In a way, the kind of hurt and suffering people inflict on their own animals and pets is way more sickening than what the poachers do, who I'd imagine are mostly people who do it just to feed themselves. Yet what happens to anyone here that's found to be cruel to animals, a soft fine in most cases. For really deplorable acts of cruelty that has gone on for years.

bradknowell

Someone goes near my dog , its war.
Never gonna happen that anyone goes for my dog with a gun and I go chuck Norris on them, get the gun and shoot them but ya never know.
So yes, I would kill a person to protect an animal.
Them seal clubbers deserve to be killed slowly

IvySlayer

I have no problem with poachers getting shot.

Mickeroo

LordSmeg wrote: »

Interesting how most people would call the death penalty barbaric but will always be able to justify it to themselves in some way.

Killing someone who poaches rhino's and justifying it by saying he was caught in the act is no different than saying its ok to kill a shoplifter if you catch him in the act.

And this isnt about human life vs animal life its about human actions which contradict the laws and aims of society at large. If you say kill them then I assume all you people support police shooting to kill when hapening on a crime in progress ? A crime is a crime and thats all poaching is, I see no reason it should be treated or seen any differently than any other crime or why the judicial system should be ignored in relation to those who commit this particular crime.

If criminals are armed then I have no problem with the police shooting to kill tbh, if they're unarmed then no it would make no sense.

As for comparing the extinction of an entire species to shoplifting, well not every crime is comparable and the consequences of shop lifting are miniscule in this comparison, by that logic(or lack there of) you could argue a serial killer is no worse than a shop lifter.

If the animal is not endangered then your argument stands up better, I don't think someone should be shot for fishing a river without a license for example. Each case has to be taken in context.

ejmaztec

They should stake them out in lion territory, and if the poachers can persuade the lions not to kill them, they should be released without charge.

Scioch

Mickeroo wrote: »

If criminals are armed then I have no problem with the police shooting to kill tbh, if they're unarmed then no it would make no sense.

Well if they are shot while armed would only be because they posed a threat to people. If poachers posed a threat to wildlife park workers or those who attempt to stop them then it would be acceptable to defend themselves by taking necessary action.

As for comparing the extinction of an entire species to shoplifting, well not every crime is comparable and the consequences of shop lifting are miniscule in this comparison, by that logic(or lack there of) you could argue a serial killer is no worse than a shop lifter.

No but the point was you are not guilty until proven to be in a court, you have the right to due process. No matter what the crime its still only a crime to be dealt with using the judicial system.

If the animal is not endangered then your argument stands up better, I don't think someone should be shot for fishing a river without a license for example. Each case has to be taken in context.

Endangered or not you cannot justify summary execution. If they failed to stop when told and continued shooting animals then action to stop that would be acceptable. But that goes beyond what poachers do, thats the work of a nutbag with a gun killing things and refusing to listen to authority. For a poacher caught killing an endangered animal to kill them without due process is murder.

So your effectively arguing that the murder of a human being is more acceptable than the illegal shooting of an animal. Its not, it never will be nor should it be. Because it undermines the rights of human beings and the system that protects them.

Mickeroo

LordSmeg wrote: »

Well if they are shot while armed would only be because they posed a threat to people. If poachers posed a threat to wildlife park workers or those who attempt to stop them then it would be acceptable to defend themselves by taking necessary action.

No but the point was you are not guilty until proven to be in a court, you have the right to due process. No matter what the crime its still only a crime to be dealt with using the judicial system.

I agree with that, I thought we were talking about a fracas breaking out in a reserve or an armed stand off between rangers/conservationists and poachers. If the poachers are caught alive then they should be trialed of course.

LordSmeg wrote: »

Endangered or not you cannot justify summary execution. If they failed to stop when told and continued shooting animals then action to stop that would be acceptable. But that goes beyond what poachers do, thats the work of a nutbag with a gun killing things and refusing to listen to authority. For a poacher caught killing an endangered animal to kill them without due process is murder.

Some poachers are nutbags with guns unfortunatley. 7 people were killed at an Okapi reserve in the Democratic Republic of Congo earlier this month unfortunately. I don't agree with executing them if they're caught alive but at the end of the day thats up to that country's judical system, either way I think a punishment which ensures they don't repeat offend would be acceptable.

LordSmeg wrote: »

So your effectively arguing that the murder of a human being is more acceptable than the illegal shooting of an animal. Its not, it never will be nor should it be. Because it undermines the rights of human beings and the system that protects them.

If its done in defense of an endangered animal, something which is among the last of its kind, then its not murder in my eyes. Human's are animals at the end of the day, we have no more right to life than anything else. As humans we're smart enough to know how we effect the planet we live on and the other things that live here. There's no justifiable reason to kill an animal on the verge of extinction.

I repeat just to be clear, if the poachers are taken alive then they deserve the right to a trial like any other criminal as you said. The punishment they receive is up to the authorities of the country they offend in.

pookiesboo

If anyone watched Gorillas In the Mist, I dont see how anyone wouldnt want to give those poachers a taste of their medicine.
We (humans) think we're topdog and everything else is fair game. Like how the great white shark is a protected species in Oz but theyre thinking of lifting the hunting ban because swimmers have gotten attacked by still going in the water after there have been fatalities in the area. Or going into a swamp frequented by crocs/alligators and being attacked. Its their territory and you should beware of the consequences. So yes I'm all for poachers, animal abusers etc getting taste of their own medicine like using their hands as ashtrays or being kicked around a bit.

Why not capture the poachers and put them in a zoo.
To just look, point and laugh,.......i'd pay.

Scioch

Mickeroo wrote: »

I agree with that, I thought we were talking about a fracas breaking out in a reserve or an armed stand off between rangers/conservationists and poachers. If the poachers are caught alive then they should be trialed of course.

I thought we were talking about a shoot to kill policy. Yeah if its a fracas while authorities attempt to enforce the law then death are acceptable.

Some poachers are nutbags with guns unfortunatley. 7 people were killed at an Okapi reserve in the Democratic Republic of Congo earlier this month unfortunately. I don't agree with executing them if they're caught alive but at the end of the day thats up to that country's judical system, either way I think a punishment which ensures they don't repeat offend would be acceptable.

I dont disagree with execution as long as the person is awarded due process. I'm not sure I'd see execution as a valid punishment for poaching though.

If its done in defense of an endangered animal, something which is among the last of its kind, then its not murder in my eyes. Human's are animals at the end of the day, we have no more right to life than anything else. As humans we're smart enough to know how we effect the planet we live on and the other things that live here. There's no justifiable reason to kill an animal on the verge of extinction.

To me that falls under the law again though. If they are killed while authorities attempt to enforce the law in relation to poaching endangered species then ok. And personally I'd probably value the animals lives over the poachers. But as far as killing them without trial because they committed the crime I couldnt accept because it undermines human rights for everyone. You just cant go around executing people like that without destroying everything else we hold in high regard such as the protection on the rights of the human being.

I repeat just to be clear, if the poachers are taken alive then they deserve the right to a trial like any other criminal as you said. The punishment they receive is up to the authorities of the country they offend in.

I think we are on the same page in regards to that yeah. If its possible to arrest them and deal with them by affording them their rights in accordance with the law then thats what should be done. If they refuse that and decide to attack authorities then thats their own lookout and authorities must do all in their power to neutralise the threat.

Cú Giobach

Poachers are armed and ready to kill (people) in order carry out their business.
If you try to commit armed robbery in most countries in the world there is a fair chance you will be shot.
Many African countries are turning to tourism for their income and nature reserves are their "cash crop" and not much good without the animals, basically there isn't much difference between poachers who get shot while at work and someone who walks into a bank with a shotgun in the US and gets shot.

Just to add, anyone trying to hurt any of my dogs would be risking their life if I caught them at it.

foxyboxer

Unfortunately when such animals are being protected then any potential poachers are going to be armed. Those assigned to protecting them will be armed in kind, and deaths will be inevitable. The only solution would be to let the animals use firearms themselves. Gorillas with semi-automatics would be bad-ass.

Cú Giobach

foxyboxer wrote: »

Gorillas with semi-automatics would be bad-ass.

How about Cows With Guns.

steddyeddy

When I say killing poachers is ok Im saying that it should be used as a deterrent to stop the poaching. I dont think poachers should be killed if they are caught and jail is an option. Sometimes though jail isnt an option as certain countries dont legislate for the protection of animals.

Another point I would make is that the days of poor poachers are all but over in some parts of the world. In the 70s and 80s poachers had spears. nowadays they have helicopters and military grade weapons. Recently in Africa a stack of ivory worth two million euros was captured from poachers and burnt on a fire. Link here. In their own words "Destroying ivory is a way of saying that elephant tusks should not be an asset unless they are on living elephants,". Last year south Africa lost 448 rhinos to poaching.Something needs to be done and force is needed.

steddyeddy

http://news.mongabay.com/2012/0705-hance-okapi-massacre-update.html

Link here to a recent poacher attack which left 7 people and thirteen okapis dead. I have no sympathy either for trophy hunters as often they bribe poachers like this to be allowed hunted endangered animals.