Just a thought on why John F Kennedy was killed

snafuk35

darced wrote: »

Explain to me the magic bullet then not even the trajectory but the pristine condition after smashing two bones making seven wounds after travelling through two bodies,it does'nt make any sense.

There is nothing magical about a high velocity rifle bullet going through the bodies of two men and creating multiple wounds. The 6.5mm round nosed bullet used by the Mannlicher-Carcano is designed to have terrific penetrative ability relative to rounds such as the 7.62mm NATO round or various hunting rounds which tumble or fragment inside the body.

The bullet was not in pristine condition. It was flattened in cross section and the lead core was extruding from the base of the copper jacket.

JFK was seated to the extreme right of the raised rear seat of the limo while Connolly was seated several inches below him and on the left side of the right jumpseat while turned around to his right when the shot struck both men about frame 223 of the Zapruder film.

The bullet fired from above and behind and to the right from the sixth floor of the TSBD hit Kennedy at the base of the back of the neck below the rear of the collar of both his jacket and shirt which were bunched up as he seat in the seat passed to the right of the spine, exited the base of his windpipe and nicked the knot of his neck tie. It hit Connally in the upper back to the rear of his right arm pit and travelled downward and to the left exiting his right chest below the nipple, smashing four inches of his fifth rib. The bullet had yawed and rapidly decelerated and struck the rib sideways which explains the oval cross-section. The bullet was travelling much slower when it passed throug his right wrist. A low speeds full metal jacket bullets can break bones but not sustain significant damage unlike at higher speeds which cause them to mangle significantly. The bullet was tumbling when it lodged base first in the flesh of Connally's left thigh. The bullet had punctured the flesh but was probably sticking out his leg which is why it fell out on the stretcher at Parkland hospital.

The markings on the bullet were matched to Oswald's rifle excluding all other weapons.

Also how could the full 20 or so medical staff at parkland see a wound at the back of his head that is later not in the autopsy?

Kennedy's head was a mass of caked blood, matted hair and a significant portion of brain was extruding from the massive head wound with flaps of skull and scalp were hanging open. It is not unusual at all for emergency doctors to have mistaken view of the wounds in a dead body before the corpse is brought to the autopsy room and properly examined.

The x-rays and photographs of JFK's body at Bethesda Naval Hospital clearly show a wound of entry in the back of Kennedy's neck, the path of the bullet through the neck, the bullet hole in the throat which was expanded so to insert a tube to help the President breath, a small entrance wound in the back of the head around the area of the cowlick and a massive wound in the top front right side of the skull.

The x-rays also show that when the bullet struck the skull it created a bevelled or cone shape in the back of the skull strongly suggesting a wound of entry.

The distribution of fragments in the skull clearly suggest a shot from above and behind.

The crack on the inside of the windshield of the limo, the spatter of blood and brain tissue forward into the jumpseats and into faces of Greer and Kellerman in the front seats and the presence of two large bullet fragments on the left front seat indicate a shot from behind. The explosion of JFK's head in the Zapruder film clearly shows matter shooting from a wound in the front top right of the head.

The position of James Tague, a witnesses wounded on the cheek by a bullet fragment or a piece of concrete shed by kerb hit by a bullet or bullet fragment relative to the limo and the TSBD clearly indicates a shot from the 6th floor.

asherbassad

Assassinations and attempts on presidents' live don't happen without facilitation or foreknowledge.
It's not rocket science.
Best way to cover your tracks after committing a crime is to make suckers believe that somebody else did it. Tried and true method.

snafuk35

asherbassad wrote: »

Assassinations and attempts on presidents' live don't happen without facilitation or foreknowledge.
It's not rocket science.
Best way to cover your tracks after committing a crime is to make suckers believe that somebody else did it. Tried and true method.

Have you been reading this thread?

How do you explain the rock solid evidence that shows Oswald and only Oswald could have fired the fatal shots that killed JFK and wounded Connolly?

How do you explain the rock solid evidence shows Oswald and only Oswald could have killed Tippet?

Kennedy was traveling in an open car through a city with countless windows over looking the route. There was none of the understandably paranoid security protecting Obama today. Obama rides in an armored vehicle and surrounded by a small army armed to the teeth while Kennedy had only eight secret service in the follow up Cadillac riding behind his limo and none had been trained to respond to gunfire like modern agents.

All anybody had to do was to be crazy enough to pull a knife or revolver at close range when Kennedy mingled with the crowd, throw a grenade or bomb into his open car or fire from a building overlooking a motorcade with a high powered rifle. A lunatic in Florida was arrested after he planned to attack Kennedy with a dynamite laden car.

buried

Another book worth checking out for those that are interested, is Paris Flammonde's 'The Kennedy Conspiracy'.
It is Flammonde's 1969 account of the New Orleans investigation of President Kennedy's assassination. The main interest of the book concerns the individuals who revolved around the dual addresses of 531 Lafayette Place and 544 Camp Street.

This milieu was a vio­lently anti-communist, racist and fas­cist organisation inex­tri­ca­bly linked with the covert oper­a­tions against Fidel Castro’s Cuba. Yet the media and judi­cial estab­lish­ments of the United States have gone along with the pre­vail­ing fic­tion that Lee Har­vey Oswald was a pro-Castro com­mu­nist sym­pa­thiser, whose “Fair Play for Cuba” orga­ni­za­tion oper­ated out of those dual addresses.

Describ­ing the begin­nings of New Orleans DA Jim Garrison’s inves­ti­ga­tion, Paris tells how the dis­trict attor­ney focused on Guy Bannister’s detec­tive agency and its employee David Fer­rie. It out­lines the dual addresses 531 Lafayette Place, 544 Camp Street. One was the address on Lee Har­vey Oswald’s “Fair Play for Cuba Com­mit­tee” literature where Oswald was its only mem­ber. The other was the address of Guy Bannister’s detec­tive agency, which served as an epi­cen­ter of the para­mil­i­tary covert oper­a­tions against Fidel Cas­tro. Both of the addresses were entrances to the same building! The New Orleans DA found this to be highly suspicious. Ban­nis­ter worked as a FBI Spe­cial Agent and he was in charge of Chicago office of FBI. Even­tu­ally, Ban­nis­ter (who had also worked for Naval Intel­li­gence) moved to New Orleans and served in the law enforce­ment there.

Paris also studies the back­ground of New Orleans Mafia capo Car­los Marcello—born in North Africa of Sicil­ian background. Even­tu­ally, Mar­cello became New Orleans capo (Mafia member who heads a 'crew') Attor­ney Gen­eral Robert Kennedy went after this pow­er­ful capo, hav­ing Mar­cello deported to Guatemala. Marcello’s influ­ence extended to Dal­las. The House Select Com­mit­tee on Assas­si­na­tions impli­cated Mar­cello in the assas­si­na­tion. David Fer­rie worked as an inves­ti­ga­tor for Guy Ban­nis­ter, and also worked for Car­los Mar­cello. Oswald also had links to Fer­rie, dat­ing back to their time together in the Civil Air Patrol along with the likes of Barry Seal. Oswald was part of his unit. Paris relates that Fer­rie ran guns for Cas­tro and then turned against him. Fer­rie may have asso­ci­ated with Mafia lord San­tos Traf­fi­cante and anti-Castro Cuban Ser­gio Arcacha Smith.

It is a brilliant book, it first opened my eyes to the shocking lies and supressed information in the assassination concerning the "Oswald the Commie" theory and strengthens the case that there was plenty of other vicous people involved than just Oswald, people that were then currently or formerly in the employment of the intelligence services of the United States. Its worth noting that Garrison believed Oswald was the lone killer until he investigated the case and eventually came to the conclusion that Oswald was a patsy.

If you are interested in the assassination then have a search for this book, it has since become out of print, but it is worth the search and price.

snafuk35

buried wrote: »

Another book worth checking out for those that are interested, is Paris Flammonde's 'The Kennedy Conspiracy'.
It is Flammonde's 1969 account of the New Orleans investigation of President Kennedy's assassination. The main interest of the book concerns the individuals who revolved around the dual addresses of 531 Lafayette Place and 544 Camp Street.

This milieu was a vio­lently anti-communist, racist and fas­cist organisation inex­tri­ca­bly linked with the covert oper­a­tions against Fidel Castro’s Cuba. Yet the media and judi­cial estab­lish­ments of the United States have gone along with the pre­vail­ing fic­tion that Lee Har­vey Oswald was a pro-Castro com­mu­nist sym­pa­thiser, whose “Fair Play for Cuba” orga­ni­za­tion oper­ated out of those dual addresses.

Describ­ing the begin­nings of New Orleans DA Jim Garrison’s inves­ti­ga­tion, Paris tells how the dis­trict attor­ney focused on Guy Bannister’s detec­tive agency and its employee David Fer­rie. It out­lines the dual addresses 531 Lafayette Place, 544 Camp Street. One was the address on Lee Har­vey Oswald’s “Fair Play for Cuba Com­mit­tee” literature where Oswald was its only mem­ber. The other was the address of Guy Bannister’s detec­tive agency, which served as an epi­cen­ter of the para­mil­i­tary covert oper­a­tions against Fidel Cas­tro. Both of the addresses were entrances to the same building! The New Orleans DA found this to be highly suspicious. Ban­nis­ter worked as a FBI Spe­cial Agent and he was in charge of Chicago office of FBI. Even­tu­ally, Ban­nis­ter (who had also worked for Naval Intel­li­gence) moved to New Orleans and served in the law enforce­ment there.

Paris also studies the back­ground of New Orleans Mafia capo Car­los Marcello—born in North Africa of Sicil­ian background. Even­tu­ally, Mar­cello became New Orleans capo (Mafia member who heads a 'crew') Attor­ney Gen­eral Robert Kennedy went after this pow­er­ful capo, hav­ing Mar­cello deported to Guatemala. Marcello’s influ­ence extended to Dal­las. The House Select Com­mit­tee on Assas­si­na­tions impli­cated Mar­cello in the assas­si­na­tion. David Fer­rie worked as an inves­ti­ga­tor for Guy Ban­nis­ter, and also worked for Car­los Mar­cello. Oswald also had links to Fer­rie, dat­ing back to their time together in the Civil Air Patrol along with the likes of Barry Seal. Oswald was part of his unit. Paris relates that Fer­rie ran guns for Cas­tro and then turned against him. Fer­rie may have asso­ci­ated with Mafia lord San­tos Traf­fi­cante and anti-Castro Cuban Ser­gio Arcacha Smith.

It is a brilliant book, it first opened my eyes to the shocking lies and supressed information in the assassination concerning the "Oswald the Commie" theory and strengthens the case that there was plenty of other vicous people involved than just Oswald, people that were then currently or formerly in the employment of the intelligence services of the United States. Its worth noting that Garrison believed Oswald was the lone killer until he investigated the case and eventually came to the conclusion that Oswald was a patsy.

If you are interested in the assassination then have a search for this book, it has since become out of print, but it is worth the search and price.

Oswald only came in contact with Ferrie when he was leader of the CAP unit in New Orleans when Oswald was just a teenage kid in the mid 1950s. There no proof whatsoever that both men crossed paths ever again.



Oswald used the address 544 Camp Street on his leaflets to embarrass Guy Banister who was a well-known figure in New Orleans and whose connections to anti-Castro figures were no secret.

Oswald was playing his own game - he was a loner who funded his own trip to Russia, grew bored of life working in a radio factory and took his wife and two daughters back to America expecting press attention. His brother Robert Oswald is still amused by his late brother's disappointment at not getting press recognition as a defecter returning home.

Oswald craved attention and Cuba was the hot button issue in New Orleans and the New Orleans chapter of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee consisted of just Oswald himself. He deliberately engineered the fracas with anti-Castro militant Carlos Bringuier to get attention and it payed off - he got a radio and television interview in which he could appear as a pseudo intellectual Marxist intellectual.

A good parallel is Adolf Hitler - another ex-military man with extremist views who happened upon a tiny extreme nationalist party he could call his own. Oswald, an ex-Marine sought a similar avenue - appearing on the press, on radio and television would hopefully make him a player. It didn't work and he was forgotten within a day.

His plot to kill General Walker did not go according to plan and his hairbrain attempt to get to Cuba didn't work either. The alternative would have been for Oswald to grow up and get a real job and support his wife and family which would have meant leaving behind his fantasies about becoming a great man of history.

When he learned JFK was going right under the windows of the Texas School Book Despository where he worked it was like winning the lottery. This was his golden chance to make his mark - as the assassin of a President. They would have to listen to him now!

The job at the Texas School Book Depository was arranged for Oswald as a favour for Marina who was staying with Ruth Paine. A neighbour of Paine whose son Wesley Buell Frazier worked at the building told her there was a job opening. Paine told Oswald who was interviewed and got the job.

When he was making his fist salutes to the press and coming across as a victim of police brutality and mouthing about being a patsy he was already trying to protray himself as a cult revolutionary figure. Another Billy The Kid or John Dillinger or Che Guevera.

He was going to use his trial as his big podium until Ruby robbed him of the chance to "change" the world.

buried

snafuk35 wrote: »

Oswald only came in contact with Ferrie when he was leader of the CAP unit in New Orleans when Oswald was just a teenage kid in the mid 1950s. There no proof whatsoever that both men crossed paths ever again.

What do you make of the credible eyewitness testimony of Corrie Collins, the chairman of the Clinton chapter for the Congress Of Racial Equality, who testified that while he was monitoring a Louisiana voter registration drive in August 1963 , he noticed the arrival of a car and believing it may be the FBI, Collins studied the car and the occupants. He witnessed a young male leave the car and enter the registration line, while the other two occupants remained in the vehicle. Under oath, at the trial of Shaw in 69 and in his testimony to the HSCA in 78, Collins identified the driver as Clay Shaw, passenger David Ferrie and the young male who entered the registration line as Lee Harvey Oswald.

dogmax

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Thomas Hale Boggs


v Primary Sources v
Thomas Hale Boggs was born in Long Beach, Mississippi, on 15th February, 1914. He graduated from the law department of Tulane University in 1935 and soon afterwards started work as a lawyer in New Orleans.
A member of the Democratic Party he was elected to Congress and served from January 1941 to January 1943. He left politics in 1943 to enlist in the United States Naval Reserve and served in the Potomac River Naval Command during the rest of the Second World War.
After the war Boggs returned to politics and in January 1946 was once again elected to the Senate. He held several posts including majority whip, chairman of the Special Committee on Campaign Expenditures and majority leader.
On the death of John F. Kennedy in 1963 his deputy, Lyndon B. Johnson, was appointed president. He immediately set up a commission to "ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy." Boggs was invited to join the commission under the chairmanship of Earl Warren. Other members of the commission included Richard B. Russell, Gerald Ford, Allen W. Dulles, John J. McCloy and John S. Cooper.
The Warren Commission reported to President Johnson ten months later. It reached the following conclusions:
(1) The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally were fired from the sixth floor window at the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository.
(2) The weight of the evidence indicates that there were three shots fired.
(3) Although it is not necessary to any essential findings of the Commission to determine just which shot hit Governor Connally, there is very persuasive evidence from the experts to indicate that the same bullet which pierced the President's throat also caused Governor Connally's wounds. However, Governor Connally's testimony and certain other factors have given rise to some difference of opinion as to this probability but there is no question in the mind of any member of the Commission that all the shots which caused the President's and Governor Connally's wounds were fired from the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository.
(4) The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald.
(5) Oswald killed Dallas Police Patrolman J. D. Tippit approximately 45 minutes after the assassination.
(6) Within 80 minutes of the assassination and 35 minutes of the Tippit killing Oswald resisted arrest at the theater by attempting to shoot another Dallas police officer.
(7) The Commission has found no evidence that either Lee Harvey Oswald or Jack Ruby was part of any conspiracy, domestic or foreign, to assassinate President Kennedy.
(8) In its entire investigation the Commission has found no evidence of conspiracy, subversion, or disloyalty to the US Government by any Federal, State, or local official.
(9) On the basis of the evidence before the Commission it concludes that, Oswald acted alone.
Boggs had doubts that John F. Kennedy and J. D. Tippit had been killed by Lee Harvey Oswald and that Jack Ruby was not part of any conspiracy." According to Bernard Fensterwald: "Almost from the beginning, Congressman Boggs had been suspicious over the FBI and CIA's reluctance to provide hard information when the Commission's probe turned to certain areas, such as allegations that Oswald may have been an undercover operative of some sort. When the Commission sought to disprove the growing suspicion that Oswald had once worked for the FBI, Boggs was outraged that the only proof of denial that the FBI offered was a brief statement of disclaimer by J. Edgar Hoover. It was Hale Boggs who drew an admission from Allen Dulles that the CIA's record of employing someone like Oswald might be so heavily coded that the verification of his service would be almost impossible for outside investigators to establish."
It has been claimed by John Judge that when Alan Dulles was asked by Hale Boggs about releasing the evidence, he replied, "Go ahead and print it, nobody will read it anyway."
According to one of his friends: "Hale felt very, very torn during his work (on the Commission)... he wished he had never been on it and wished he'd never signed it (the Warren Report)." Another former aide argued that, "Hale always returned to one thing: Hoover lied his eyes out to the Commission - on Oswald, on Ruby, on their friends, the bullets, the gun, you name it."
Thomas Hale Boggs disappeared while on a campaign flight from Anchorage to Juneau, Alaska, on 16th October, 1972. Also killed in the accident was Nick Begich, a member of the House of Representatives. No bodies were ever found and in 1973 his wife, Lindy Boggs, was elected in her husband's place.
The Los Angeles Star, on November 22, 1973, reported that before his death Boggs claimed he had "startling revelations" on Watergate and the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

snafuk35

buried wrote: »

What do you make of the credible eyewitness testimony of Corrie Collins, the chairman of the Clinton chapter for the Congress Of Racial Equality, who testified that while he was monitoring a Louisiana voter registration drive in August 1963 , he noticed the arrival of a car and believing it may be the FBI, Collins studied the car and the occupants. He witnessed a young male leave the car and enter the registration line, while the other two occupants remained in the vehicle. Under oath, at the trial of Shaw in 69 and in his testimony to the HSCA in 78, Collins identified the driver as Clay Shaw, passenger David Ferrie and the young male who entered the registration line as Lee Harvey Oswald.

CORE chairman Corrie Collins was intimidated into changing his story by Jim Garrison's investigators because the two of the other "witnesses" who placed Shaw, Ferrie and Oswald in the car were Henry Earl Palmer and John Manchester who were both Klansmen. Corrie Collins and colleague William E. Dunn, Sr originally identified the occupants as Estus Morgan and Winslow Foster.

snafuk35

dogmax wrote: »

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Thomas Hale Boggs


v Primary Sources v
Thomas Hale Boggs was born in Long Beach, Mississippi, on 15th February, 1914. He graduated from the law department of Tulane University in 1935 and soon afterwards started work as a lawyer in New Orleans.
A member of the Democratic Party he was elected to Congress and served from January 1941 to January 1943. He left politics in 1943 to enlist in the United States Naval Reserve and served in the Potomac River Naval Command during the rest of the Second World War.
After the war Boggs returned to politics and in January 1946 was once again elected to the Senate. He held several posts including majority whip, chairman of the Special Committee on Campaign Expenditures and majority leader.
On the death of John F. Kennedy in 1963 his deputy, Lyndon B. Johnson, was appointed president. He immediately set up a commission to "ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy." Boggs was invited to join the commission under the chairmanship of Earl Warren. Other members of the commission included Richard B. Russell, Gerald Ford, Allen W. Dulles, John J. McCloy and John S. Cooper.
The Warren Commission reported to President Johnson ten months later. It reached the following conclusions:
(1) The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally were fired from the sixth floor window at the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository.
(2) The weight of the evidence indicates that there were three shots fired.
(3) Although it is not necessary to any essential findings of the Commission to determine just which shot hit Governor Connally, there is very persuasive evidence from the experts to indicate that the same bullet which pierced the President's throat also caused Governor Connally's wounds. However, Governor Connally's testimony and certain other factors have given rise to some difference of opinion as to this probability but there is no question in the mind of any member of the Commission that all the shots which caused the President's and Governor Connally's wounds were fired from the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository.
(4) The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald.
(5) Oswald killed Dallas Police Patrolman J. D. Tippit approximately 45 minutes after the assassination.
(6) Within 80 minutes of the assassination and 35 minutes of the Tippit killing Oswald resisted arrest at the theater by attempting to shoot another Dallas police officer.
(7) The Commission has found no evidence that either Lee Harvey Oswald or Jack Ruby was part of any conspiracy, domestic or foreign, to assassinate President Kennedy.
(8) In its entire investigation the Commission has found no evidence of conspiracy, subversion, or disloyalty to the US Government by any Federal, State, or local official.
(9) On the basis of the evidence before the Commission it concludes that, Oswald acted alone.
Boggs had doubts that John F. Kennedy and J. D. Tippit had been killed by Lee Harvey Oswald and that Jack Ruby was not part of any conspiracy." According to Bernard Fensterwald: "Almost from the beginning, Congressman Boggs had been suspicious over the FBI and CIA's reluctance to provide hard information when the Commission's probe turned to certain areas, such as allegations that Oswald may have been an undercover operative of some sort. When the Commission sought to disprove the growing suspicion that Oswald had once worked for the FBI, Boggs was outraged that the only proof of denial that the FBI offered was a brief statement of disclaimer by J. Edgar Hoover. It was Hale Boggs who drew an admission from Allen Dulles that the CIA's record of employing someone like Oswald might be so heavily coded that the verification of his service would be almost impossible for outside investigators to establish."
It has been claimed by John Judge that when Alan Dulles was asked by Hale Boggs about releasing the evidence, he replied, "Go ahead and print it, nobody will read it anyway."
According to one of his friends: "Hale felt very, very torn during his work (on the Commission)... he wished he had never been on it and wished he'd never signed it (the Warren Report)." Another former aide argued that, "Hale always returned to one thing: Hoover lied his eyes out to the Commission - on Oswald, on Ruby, on their friends, the bullets, the gun, you name it."
Thomas Hale Boggs disappeared while on a campaign flight from Anchorage to Juneau, Alaska, on 16th October, 1972. Also killed in the accident was Nick Begich, a member of the House of Representatives. No bodies were ever found and in 1973 his wife, Lindy Boggs, was elected in her husband's place.
The Los Angeles Star, on November 22, 1973, reported that before his death Boggs claimed he had "startling revelations" on Watergate and the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

The only cover up by the FBI was the destruction of Oswald's letter to the FBI about "harrasment" of his wife Marina sent to Agent James P. Hosty. The FBI had been routinely monitoring Oswald and his wife along with many other people with potentially subversive politics and backgrounds who were also routinely monitored. The letter was destroyed because it was considered embarrasing that Oswald was in communication with the FBI before the killings on 22 November and they had not acted on the letter.

dogmax

If this was a football team snafuk35 you would definitely be goalkeeper, anyway, try this for size.


　　

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Ford Told FBI of Skeptics on Warren Commission

　　
By Joe StephensWashington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 8, 2008

Confidential FBI files released this week to The Washington Post detail the inner workings of a secret back channel that Gerald R. Ford opened in 1963 between J. Edgar Hoover's FBI and the Warren Commission's independent investigation into the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

The existence of the private conduit has long been known, first disclosed in documents released 30 years ago. Now, newly obtained, previously classified records detail one visit Ford made to one of Hoover's deputies in December 1963 -- three weeks after being named to the commission.

Declassified FBI memos on Ford's interactions with the bureau are among scores of documents in the FBI's previously confidential file on the former president, , who died in December 2006. At the request of The Post, the FBI this week released 500 pages of the bureau's voluminous file.

A December 1963 memo recounts that Ford, then a Republican congressman from Michigan, told FBI Assistant Director Cartha D. "Deke" DeLoach that two members of the seven-person commission remained unconvinced that Kennedy had been shot from the sixth-floor window of the Texas Book Depository. In addition, three commission members "failed to understand" the trajectory of the slugs, Ford said.

Ford told DeLoach that commission discussions would continue and reassured him that those minority points of view on the commission "of course would represent no problem," one internal FBI memo shows. The memo does not name the members involved and does not elaborate on what Ford meant by "no problem."

Ford also told DeLoach that Chief Justice Earl Warren, who headed the commission, had told its members that "they should strive to have their hearings completed and the findings made public prior to July, 1964, when the Presidential campaigns will begin to get hot. He stated it would be unfair to present the findings after July." They missed their deadline, concluding in a report issued Sept. 24, 1964, that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination.

Much of the material in the FBI file concerns intelligence about Ford's political adversaries when he was president, especially organizations that the bureau thought might disrupt Ford's appearances around the country. But the file also sheds light on the investigation into Kennedy's assassination and the FBI's relationship with Ford, and it shows how the bureau strove to curry favor with powerful politicians.

Another memo in the file, previously released with Warren Commission materials in 1978, details how Ford approached DeLoach in 1963 and offered to secretly inform the bureau about the inner workings of the then-ongoing Warren Commission investigation.

"Ford indicated he would keep me thoroughly advised as to the activities of the Commission," DeLoach wrote. "He stated this would have to be done on a confidential basis, however he thought it should be done."

Five days later, DeLoach had a second meeting with Ford and filed another confidential memo. DeLoach recounted that he "carefully" informed Ford that the FBI had released none of its investigative findings to the media. Instead, he said, it looked as though commission members were beginning to leak portions of the FBI report.

"I referred to this week's issue of 'Newsweek' magazine which contains a rather clear analysis of the report," DeLoach wrote. "I told Congressman Ford that 'Newsweek' was owned by the 'Washington Post' and that apparently some one was trying to curry favor. I told him we, of course, did not get along very well with either the 'Washington Post' or 'Newsweek.' He [said] that he was in the same boat, that he liked neither one of these publications."

The conversation, which has apparently not been previously reported, concluded with Ford saying he would like to take a confidential FBI report on the assassination with him on a family ski trip to Michigan. DeLoach offer to lend him an "Agent briefcase" with a lock, so Ford could safeguard the document.

Tipsy McSwagger

@snafuk - there is no point debating the JFK assassination anymore as the evidence is so overwhelming that LHO carried it out on his own it's a closed case. The same thing happens
in every debate, Conspiracy Theorists will always revert back to either,

(a) the evidence was fabricated
(b) they lied
(c) they covered it up

They won't ever give an honest opinion on what they thought happened because they don't have one.

enno99

Anybody seen this stuff before ?

I will leave it here if anyones interested


Louis Mortimer Bloomfield


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Bloomfield


Louis was born in Montreal to Harry Bloomfield in 1906. He received a Bachelor of Arts from McGill University in 1927 and his Master of Laws from the University of Montreal in 1930. A Zionist, Bloomfield joined the British military prior to World War II and served in Palestine as an Intelligence Officer under General Charles Orde Wingate.[1] Bloomfield was involved in training the Jewish army, Haganah (1936-1939).



Bloomfield, Permindex and the CIA


When we combine the E. H. Hunt’s revelation, the information form the Bloomfield archives and some little known documents released by NARA under the JFK documents program, we start to sketch a coherent picture in which the JFK assassination seems to be carried by (rogue?) members of the CIA using Permindex as part of the Italian Gladio network put in place to combat Soviet Communism

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16780




PERMINDEX, BLOOMFIELD LINKED

TO FREEMASONS AND ROTHSCHILDS

http://somesecretsforyou.blogspot.ie/2010/04/revelations-from-bloomfield-archives-2.html



It seems Maurice Philipps has been fighting for years to have the files released from the Canadian archives

darced

This post has been deleted.

snafuk35

dogmax wrote: »

If this was a football team snafuk35 you would definitely be goalkeeper, anyway, try this for size.


　　

washingtonpost.com > Nation

» Follow The Post On:

&&



　

Ford Told FBI of Skeptics on Warren Commission

　　
By Joe StephensWashington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 8, 2008

Confidential FBI files released this week to The Washington Post detail the inner workings of a secret back channel that Gerald R. Ford opened in 1963 between J. Edgar Hoover's FBI and the Warren Commission's independent investigation into the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

The existence of the private conduit has long been known, first disclosed in documents released 30 years ago. Now, newly obtained, previously classified records detail one visit Ford made to one of Hoover's deputies in December 1963 -- three weeks after being named to the commission.

Declassified FBI memos on Ford's interactions with the bureau are among scores of documents in the FBI's previously confidential file on the former president, , who died in December 2006. At the request of The Post, the FBI this week released 500 pages of the bureau's voluminous file.

A December 1963 memo recounts that Ford, then a Republican congressman from Michigan, told FBI Assistant Director Cartha D. "Deke" DeLoach that two members of the seven-person commission remained unconvinced that Kennedy had been shot from the sixth-floor window of the Texas Book Depository. In addition, three commission members "failed to understand" the trajectory of the slugs, Ford said.

Ford told DeLoach that commission discussions would continue and reassured him that those minority points of view on the commission "of course would represent no problem," one internal FBI memo shows. The memo does not name the members involved and does not elaborate on what Ford meant by "no problem."

Ford also told DeLoach that Chief Justice Earl Warren, who headed the commission, had told its members that "they should strive to have their hearings completed and the findings made public prior to July, 1964, when the Presidential campaigns will begin to get hot. He stated it would be unfair to present the findings after July." They missed their deadline, concluding in a report issued Sept. 24, 1964, that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination.

Much of the material in the FBI file concerns intelligence about Ford's political adversaries when he was president, especially organizations that the bureau thought might disrupt Ford's appearances around the country. But the file also sheds light on the investigation into Kennedy's assassination and the FBI's relationship with Ford, and it shows how the bureau strove to curry favor with powerful politicians.

Another memo in the file, previously released with Warren Commission materials in 1978, details how Ford approached DeLoach in 1963 and offered to secretly inform the bureau about the inner workings of the then-ongoing Warren Commission investigation.

"Ford indicated he would keep me thoroughly advised as to the activities of the Commission," DeLoach wrote. "He stated this would have to be done on a confidential basis, however he thought it should be done."

Five days later, DeLoach had a second meeting with Ford and filed another confidential memo. DeLoach recounted that he "carefully" informed Ford that the FBI had released none of its investigative findings to the media. Instead, he said, it looked as though commission members were beginning to leak portions of the FBI report.

"I referred to this week's issue of 'Newsweek' magazine which contains a rather clear analysis of the report," DeLoach wrote. "I told Congressman Ford that 'Newsweek' was owned by the 'Washington Post' and that apparently some one was trying to curry favor. I told him we, of course, did not get along very well with either the 'Washington Post' or 'Newsweek.' He [said] that he was in the same boat, that he liked neither one of these publications."

The conversation, which has apparently not been previously reported, concluded with Ford saying he would like to take a confidential FBI report on the assassination with him on a family ski trip to Michigan. DeLoach offer to lend him an "Agent briefcase" with a lock, so Ford could safeguard the document.

So what? Leaks to the media, political pressure to get the Commission wrapped up and politicians who are amateurs in firearms and wound ballistics have differences of opinion over the shots? Nothing strange about that at all.

snafuk35

there are no fragments missing from the supposed bullet

The Warren Commission never claimed the bullet had no missing fragments. The fragments of the bullet in Connolly's body were minute.

20 or so medical staff were not all wrong about the head wound some of them were inches from it,connelly himself stated he turned to his right as he heard shots fired and as he looked back he was hit,the zapruder film shows kennedy is already hit as connelly looks to his right.

This is the x-ray of JFK's head:



The top front right of the skull is shattered.

This is a frame of the Zapruder film clearly showing the wound in the top front right of the head:



These are the autopsy photos:






The top front right of the head was blasted out.

The third photo above shows a bullet wound in the cowlick area of the head.

snafuk35

This simplified drawing is based on the x-rays and the autopsy photos



Clearly the shot came from above and behind.

This diagram traces the trajectory of the shot through JFK's head back to the 6th floor window:



The position of Kennedy at frame 313 (the moment of the fatal shot) relative to the cameraman Zapruder and the 6th floor window.

buried

snafuk35 wrote: »

CORE chairman Corrie Collins was intimidated into changing his story by Jim Garrison's investigators because the two of the other "witnesses" who placed Shaw, Ferrie and Oswald in the car were Henry Earl Palmer and John Manchester who were both Klansmen. Corrie Collins and colleague William E. Dunn, Sr originally identified the occupants as Estus Morgan and Winslow Foster.

Interesting, could I have a source for that? Not being smart, I have never seen that claim before. It seems to me that Collins was not a man who could be intimidated easily, he withstood pressure to stop registering black voters in the deep south, then he commits perjury due to pressure from Garrison?

snafuk35

buried wrote: »

Interesting, could I have a source for that? Not being smart, I have never seen that claim before. It seems to me that Collins was not a man who could be intimidated easily, he withstood pressure to stop registering black voters in the deep south, then he commits perjury due to pressure from Garrison?

This is a key passage that completely undermined Collins evidence at Clay Shaw trial when he was under cross-examination by Dymond:

Q: Did you give the District Attorney's Office or any law enforcement officers information to the effect that you could be a witness in this case at any time shortly before you had your first interview with a representative of the District Attorney's Office?
A: No.
Q: Well, then you don't know what caused them to come to you, do you?
A: I don't.
Q: Now, you were aware that the Warren Commission was conducting an extensive investigation into the assassination of President Kennedy, were you not?
A: I was aware that they were investigating it.
Q: I see. At the time that you were aware of the fact that this investigation was being conducted, you knew that you had seen Lee Harvey Oswald in Clinton, did you not?
A: That is true.
Q: Did you report this to the Warren Commission or the FBI or any Federal agency?
A: No.
Q: Why not?
A: No one asked me.
Q: You didn't consider it your duty to report it?
A: Beg your pardon?
Q: You didn't consider it your duty to report it?
A: Well, I felt like if they wanted to know they would ask me.
Q: Were they supposed to just guess that you had information, or what?

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/collins.htm

buried

snafuk35 wrote: »

This is a key passage that completely undermined Collins evidence at Clay Shaw trial when he was under cross-examination by Dymond:



http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/collins.htm

The fact that Collins did not report his sighting of Oswald does not prove the man was lying or committing perjury in court. Collins was a man who distrusted the FBI and other federal agencies. Collins believed the FBI had been carring out surveilance on his activites in CORE and given the racist & facist factions within the intelligence services based in the south during that time, Collins belief was more than likely correct. I can fully understand why he did not report his information to the same people who were covertly monitoring him.
Many individuals felt intimidated, for whatever reason, not to testify to The Warren Commision/FBI and even the New Orleans investigation. That does not prove their information was false or fabricated

snafuk35

buried wrote: »

The fact that Collins did not report his sighting of Oswald does not prove the man was lying or committing perjury in court. Collins was a man who distrusted the FBI and other federal agencies. Collins believed the FBI had been carring out surveilance on his activites in CORE and given the racist & facist factions within the intelligence services based in the south during that time, Collins belief was more than likely correct. I can fully understand why he did not report his information to the same people who were covertly monitoring him.
Many individuals felt intimidated, for whatever reason, not to testify to The Warren Commision/FBI and even the New Orleans investigation. That does not prove their information was false or fabricated

What it does prove is the testimony is not reliable to say the very least.
The jury were convinced that Garrison's entire case was BS from start to finish and it was thrown out after an hour of deliberation.
Clay Shaw had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK and there is no credible evidence that demonstrates Shaw ever knew Oswald.
The whole Shaw trial was a farce.
The triangulation of crossfire story is crap and the whole grassy knoll story is even nuttier.
I call BS on this whole conspiracy.
The only plot to kill JFK was in the mind of a crazed lonely man who sought fame and got it briefly by killing the President.

I think I have shown referred enough to the ample evidence that proves Oswald's sole guilt in the shooting the President. I don't think anyone on this thread seriously questions that Oswald and Oswald alone fired the fatal shots and that Oswald also killed Officer Tippet.

It defies belief that anyone else would have risked exposing themselves by hiring such a bum and then hiring another crazy like Ruby to rub him out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JktLkQbtVbE

The link below takes you to a detailed timeline of Lee Harvey Oswald's life from birth to death:

http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/chrono.htm

Treora

Jonny7 wrote: »

As someone who's on the fence about the JFK assassination I'm not seeing many good counterpoints here. Most seem to be driven by the 'there must be a conspiracy' stable rather than actual good concise evidence.

This was a posting device designed to point to snafuk35's use of the same form, so as to encourage to use more links and evidence instead of one line retorts. And as you can see the posting quality improved. Job done.

Treora

snafuk35 wrote: »

It defies belief that anyone else would have risked exposing themselves by hiring such a bum and then hiring another crazy like Ruby to rub him out.

I saw no posts proposing that LHO or Ruby were hired. Most with a view counter to yours probably think that they were used and manipulated without their knowledge through their egos and networks.

snafuk35

Treora wrote: »

I saw no posts proposing that LHO or Ruby were hired. Most with a view counter to yours probably think that they were used and manipulated without their knowledge through their egos and networks.

How? The only reason LHO got the job in the TSBD is because Wesley Buell Frazier was working there and his mother told Mrs Paine who was putting up Marina Oswald, that a job was going and maybe Oswald would be interested.

So from the get go if Oswald was "manipulated" then Mrs. Paine, the neighbour, Wesley Buell Frazier and Roy Truly who hired Oswald would all have to be involved in the conspiracy wouldn't they?
How else would Oswald have been able to get the job in the TSBD if it was all a plot to put him in position to be set up as a patsy or if he was the trigger man to kill JFK? Nobody has ever discovered any evidence that Mrs. Paine, her neighbour or her son Wesley or Truly were in on the plot.

Of course the route past the TSBD was only decided a few days before the visit to Dallas and and Oswald was already hired there in October 1963.
So the conspirators must have been psychics or something?:D

LHO left plenty of bread crumbs behind to implicate himself in the killing. Why would the conspirators wait two days before having him killed presumably by which time he would have sung like a canary to cops who were not involved in the plot? He was facing certain execution wasn't he? So why wouldn't he talk if he was going to die? And to eliminate him they "manipulated" Ruby and that means they risked Ruby being apprehended before he bumps Oswald or talking after he killed Oswald?

buried

snafuk35 wrote: »

The whole Shaw trial was a farce.

Well, HSCA documents declassified in the early 1990's pretty much validates what Garrison had to say and supported his thesis - HSCA Chief Coun­sel, G. Robert Blakey, once referred to the Committee’s work as ‘the last inves­ti­ga­tion.’ Really then, it is only proper that the HSCA have the last word on Clay Shaw. On Sep­tem­ber 1, 1977, staff coun­sel Jonathan Black­mer, authored a 15-page mem­o­ran­dum addressed to Blakey, as well as staff mem­bers, Gary Corn­well, Ken Klein, and Cliff Fen­ton. Black­mer was lead coun­sel for team 3, the HSCA team respon­si­ble for the New Orleans and Cuban angles of the inves­ti­ga­tion.

After an inves­tiga­tive trip to New Orleans, Black­mer con­cluded in his memo: ‘We have rea­son to believe Shaw was heav­ily involved in the anti-Castro efforts in New Orleans in the 1960’s and [was] pos­si­bly one of the high level plan­ners or ‘cut out’ to the plan­ners of the assas­si­na­tion.’ The last report of the HSCA stated that the commitee "inclined to believe that Oswald was in Clinton [Louisiana] in late August, early September 1963, and that he was in the company of David Ferrie, if not Clay Shaw,"

The former director of the CIA, Richard Helms, testified in 1979 that Clay Shaw was a domestic contact of the CIA. Shaw always denied he was connected to the CIA.

Concerning the 'nuttieness' of the grassy knoll story, I find the story that Oswald could fire three straight shots with his ordinary marksman range of 212, that all three shots hit his intended target through dense foliage, dealing with a recoiling weapon and while his target was moving, to be slightly nutty claims to be honest. Especially when the FBI's expert marksman with a range of 400 was unable to duplicate the accuracy and timing of the supposed shots.

A British foren­sic sci­en­tific study from 2001 proved that there was a fourth (and fatal shot) from the grassy knoll. “The House Assas­si­na­tions Com­mit­tee may have been right after all: There was a shot from the grassy knoll. That was the key find­ing of the con­gres­sional inves­ti­ga­tion that con­cluded 22 years ago that Pres­i­dent ‘John F. Kennedy’s mur­der in Dal­las in 1963 was ‘prob­a­bly the result of a con­spir­acy.’ A shot from the grassy knoll meant that two gun­men must have fired at the pres­i­dent within a split-second sequence. Lee Har­vey Oswald, accused of fir­ing three shots at Kennedy from a perch at the Texas School Book Depos­i­tory, could not have been in two places at once. . . . A new, peer-reviewed arti­cle in Sci­ence and Jus­tice, a quar­terly pub­li­ca­tion of Britain’s Foren­sic Sci­ence Soci­ety. . . . said it was more than 96 per­cent cer­tain that there was a shot from the grassy knoll to the right of the president’s lim­ou­sine, in addi­tion to the three shots from a book depos­i­tory win­dow above and behind the president’s lim­ou­sine.” (“Study backs The­ory of ‘grassy knoll’” by George Lard­ner Jr.; The Wash­ing­ton Post; 26/3/2001.)

buried

I fear this debate is about to begin to go around in circles so I may leave it for a while, all I will say is that anyone with a interest for this history should study The HSCA's 1979 declassified reports, the events surrounding Cuba, David Ferrie, Guy Banister, the CIA assassination squad known as Operation 40, its members Frank Sturgis & Barry Seal, Seals connections to The 20th Special Forces Group whose Green Berets were sent to Memphis to carry out a unknown mission the day the day Mar­tin Luther King was assas­si­nated...
Facist people inextricably linked to the JFK assassination and the situations that have followed and have shaped the modern world that we all find ourselves in today.

Tipsy McSwagger

buried wrote: »

I fear this debate is about to begin to go around in circles so I may leave it for a while, all I will say is that anyone with a interest for this history should study The HSCA's 1979 declassified reports, the events surrounding Cuba, David Ferrie, Guy Banister, the CIA assassination squad known as Operation 40, its members Frank Sturgis & Barry Seal, Seals connections to The 20th Special Forces Group whose Green Berets were sent to Memphis to carry out a unknown mission the day the day Mar­tin Luther King was assas­si­nated...
Facist people inextricably linked to the JFK assassination and the situations that have followed and have shaped the modern world that we all find ourselves in today.

Ye all of them were involved and not one person has ever spoken out about it, gimme a break.

buried

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Ye all of them were involved and not one person has ever spoken out about it, gimme a break.

If you take the time to read about some of these characters and the people who were close to them you will find many who did speak about it. As I have previously shown, people such as E. Howard Hunt who was CIA, Seal's own wife Deborah for instance "Barry Seal flew the getaway plane out of Dallas the day Kennedy was killed". Many others such as Seal cannot speak about it as they were assassinated/murdered themselves. All you have to do is read the history yourself but I suspect you will not do so. If your comfortable enough in believing what you believe about the assassination, then that is fair enough, but for me, after reading the history of the likes of OP40, the HSCA report etc. I do not share your beliefs, and that is fair enough too. Now, I shall give you and also myself a break by leaving this thread for a while as it is going around in a circle as I supposed it would.

snafuk35

Well, HSCA documents declassified in the early 1990's pretty much validates what Garrison had to say and supported his thesis. HSCA Chief Coun­sel, G. Robert Blakey, once referred to the Committee’s work as ‘the last inves­ti­ga­tion.’ Really then, it is only proper that the HSCA have the last word on Clay Shaw. On Sep­tem­ber 1, 1977, staff coun­sel Jonathan Black­mer, authored a 15-page mem­o­ran­dum addressed to Blakey, as well as staff mem­bers, Gary Corn­well, Ken Klein, and Cliff Fen­ton. Black­mer was lead coun­sel for team 3, the HSCA team respon­si­ble for the New Orleans and Cuban angles of the inves­ti­ga­tion.

There is no credible evidence linking Lee Harvey Oswald with anybody.
As I have already shown you, Oswald only got the job at the TSBD by pure chance.
He could not have got the job with the help of the CIA, Mafia, Cubans or anybody else.
Roy Truly met Oswald and gave him the job in October 1963.
The route of the motorcade was only decided on four days before the killing.
All the official investigations in the killing - Warren , HSCA, Ramsey Clark and Rockfeller all concluded that Oswald fired three shots and he killed the President.
No serious historian of the assassination doubts Oswald was the trigger man.

After an inves­tiga­tive trip to New Orleans, Black­mer con­cluded in his memo: ‘We have rea­son to believe Shaw was heav­ily involved in the anti-Castro efforts in New Orleans in the 1960’s and [was] pos­si­bly one of the high level plan­ners or ‘cut out’ to the plan­ners of the assas­si­na­tion.’ The last report of the HSCA stated that the commitee "inclined to believe that Oswald was in Clinton [Louisiana] in late August, early September 1963, and that he was in the company of David Ferrie, if not Clay Shaw,"

As has already been shown, the testimony of Corrie Collins is full of holes and is simply not believable.
Oswald only came in contact with Ferrie as a 15 year old member of the CAP.
That's it.

The former director of the CIA, Richard Helms, testified in 1979 that Clay Shaw was a domestic contact of the CIA. Shaw always denied he was connected to the CIA.

What does this prove? It certainly doesn't prove Shaw was involved in a plot to kill JFK

Concerning the 'nuttieness' of the grassy knoll story, I find the story that Oswald could fire three straight shots with his ordinary marksman range of 212, that all three shots hit his intended target through dense foliage, dealing with a recoiling weapon and while his target was moving, to be slightly nutty claims to be honest. Especially when the FBI's expert marksman with a range of 400 was unable to duplicate the accuracy and timing of the supposed shots.

This approximates what a rifleman in the 6th floor would have seen through the 4X scope of the Mannlicher Carcano while tracking the limousine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU69lMs2FMg

The Warren Commission's panel of riflemen DID replicate Oswald's shots.
CBS also assembled a panel of riflemen and they also replicated Oswald's shots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovyEqfR8Hg

Oswald had trained to hit targets on a Marine rifle range at much greater distances than in Dealey Plaza.

The range to the target was approximately 88 yards and reduced to 22 yards by the scope. With one round in the chamber and with a bolt cycle rate of about 2.3 secs the feat of shooting three shots could have been achieved in 4.6 secs.
From Dale Myers' analysis of the Zapruder film there are three reactions to gunfire at frames 157 (the first shot that missed) at frame 223 (when both JFK and Connolly were hit simultaneously) and frame 313 (the fatal headshot). Zapruder's camera was operating at 18.3 frames were second.
So the time frame of the three shots is actually about 8.5 secs.
More than enough time to get two hits out three.

A British foren­sic sci­en­tific study from 2001 proved that there was a fourth (and fatal shot) from the grassy knoll. “The House Assas­si­na­tions Com­mit­tee may have been right after all: There was a shot from the grassy knoll. That was the key find­ing of the con­gres­sional inves­ti­ga­tion that con­cluded 22 years ago that Pres­i­dent ‘John F. Kennedy’s mur­der in Dal­las in 1963 was ‘prob­a­bly the result of a con­spir­acy.’ A shot from the grassy knoll meant that two gun­men must have fired at the pres­i­dent within a split-second sequence. Lee Har­vey Oswald, accused of fir­ing three shots at Kennedy from a perch at the Texas School Book Depos­i­tory, could not have been in two places at once. . . . A new, peer-reviewed arti­cle in Sci­ence and Jus­tice, a quar­terly pub­li­ca­tion of Britain’s Foren­sic Sci­ence Soci­ety. . . . said it was more than 96 per­cent cer­tain that there was a shot from the grassy knoll to the right of the president’s lim­ou­sine, in addi­tion to the three shots from a book depos­i­tory win­dow above and behind the president’s lim­ou­sine.” (“Study backs The­ory of ‘grassy knoll’” by George Lard­ner Jr.; The Wash­ing­ton Post; 26/3/2001.)

Witnesses would have been only feet away from hypotheical knoll assassin and Lee Bowers (who was looking at the back of the fence from the railroad control tower) mentions NO gunman behind the fence. No photos or films show anyone behind the fence at the time of the shooting. No shell cases or rifle. No forensic evidence whatsoever. JFK's head wounds were caused by a bullet entering the back of the head and exiting the top front right of his skull. If Kennedy had been shot from the knoll the bullet would have have made a small hole in the skull in the front right side and created a large exit hole on the rear left side of the head.

HelloYoungBoy

When did he die?

Conas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MLc0udf_74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSWSgcuYqDo