Rally for The Quinn-were you there?

thebaz

Noreen1 wrote: »

Can those (not you, in particular, Biggins) who are screaming for Sean Quinns head, spot their double standards in meekly accepting all the other injustices that have been meted out, then whitewashed by propaganda in the media?

Does any other individual owe the irish state more than the Quinn's ?

Has any other individual/banker/developer gone to such lengths to put his assets beyond the state , Eastern European maze of complications , selling stuff for laptops ?

rational explanation , will go some way to restoring my faith in the Quinns, and understanding his support

M three

Il Trap wrote: »

Listen folks..I am considerably knowledgeable and centrally involved in the Quinn case -bottom line is, the guy is a crook. Those who support him are either ill--informed or deluded. Sad indictment of a section of Irish soc.

Biggins,

Am sure you'll be even handed and make sure Il Trap tells us in what way he is centrally involved in the Quinn case .

I think he works for anglo or their associates and he's busy posting anto quinn stuff on here which raises a whole other question

Happyman42

tayto lover wrote: »

Fully agree. Quinn is a criminal but there are others hiding behind this case too. I can't see it but I can smell it.

Totally agree with the above, I hope and I suspect (that's a guess!) that Quinn is playing a wily old game here.
I think he has a good chance of proving that Elderfield sent in the administrators illegally. It completely smacks of ignoring due process to me. If he manages to do that does anybody know what happens then? (Just for hypotethical fun)

duinegorm

M three wrote: »

Il Trap wrote: »

Listen folks..I am considerably knowledgeable and centrally involved in the Quinn case -bottom line is, the guy is a crook. Those who support him are either ill--informed or deluded. Sad indictment of a section of Irish soc.

Biggins,

Am sure you'll be even handed and make sure Il Trap tells us in what way he is centrally involved in the Quinn case .

I think he works for anglo or their associates and he's busy posting anto quinn stuff on here which raises a whole other question

Is Anto Quinn gettin a few grand a month of us too?

Noreen1

thebaz wrote: »

Does any other individual owe the irish state more than the Quinn's ?

Has any other individual/banker/developer gone to such lengths to put his assets beyond the state , Eastern European maze of complications , selling stuff for laptops ?

rational explanation , will go some way to restoring my faith in the Quinns, and understanding his support

You've just proved a point I made earlier - that anyone who asks questions about the other players in this whole sorry saga is assumed to be a supporter of the Quinns.

We don't know what lengths other individuals have gone to - because Anglo management have yet to appear in court, as have numerous developers.

Sean Quinn may owe the state (by the Governments choice, I might add) more than any other individual - but the management of Anglo are collectively responsible for reckless loans of 30 odd Billion - yet any mention of that means I am automatically dubbed a Quinn supporter.

Let me be quite clear.
I support a thorough, and truthful investigation, of all financial wrongdoings in this Country.
I support Political, and Banking reform, to ensure that people are never again forced to pay the debts of a bunch of testosterone fuelled, reckless, arrogant gits.
I support punishment for all wrongdoing.

Unfortunately, this thread proves that this will never happen - because people don't want justice, reform, and a better future for our children - they want revenge, and they want it now - and Sean Quinns head will do nicely, since the powers that be have so far refused to offer up any more significant players heads on a platter.

uch

Why do these people think they are entitled to something they gambled away

stepbar

stepbar wrote: »

Happyman42 wrote: »

stepbar wrote: »

What question??? Please link the question.

It's a two part question:

1. What evidence have we that Quinn did something illegal when Anglo was functioning as a bank?
Sources and links please in the answer.

2. Assuming that you provide the evidence of wrongdoing, please give us your opinion on the reason for Quinn not being arrested, charged and punished for those crimes in particular.

Please link your question. Funny that's it's now turned into 2 questions. I couldn't be arsed searching through 25 pages on an iPhone TBH.

Any chance you could link the 'question' you want answered?

tayto lover

uch wrote: »

Why do these people think they are entitled to something they gambled away

They saw the Bondholders getting it and probably said that they'd have some of that too.

afterburn1

uch wrote: »

Why do these people think they are entitled to something they gambled away

Would you back a horse that had already fallen?

homerjay2005

uch wrote: »

Why do these people think they are entitled to something they gambled away

quinn is starting to come across just like Bertie. was the bees knees when things were going well which helped to cover their mistakes and now, that the luck and money has run out, are shown up to be nothing but gamblers, cheats and frauds.

i do laugh at the pathetic attempts to defend them.

andrewdeerpark

Thought Quinn came across pretty ok in the Vincent Browne interview It would have been nicer to have an unedited full version (maybe that could turn up on youtube!).

Happyman42

Noreen1 wrote: »

You've just proved a point I made earlier - that anyone who asks questions about the other players in this whole sorry saga is assumed to be a supporter of the Quinns.

We don't know what lengths other individuals have gone to - because Anglo management have yet to appear in court, as have numerous developers.

Sean Quinn may owe the state (by the Governments choice, I might add) more than any other individual - but the management of Anglo are collectively responsible for reckless loans of 30 odd Billion - yet any mention of that means I am automatically dubbed a Quinn supporter.

Let me be quite clear.
I support a thorough, and truthful investigation, of all financial wrongdoings in this Country.
I support Political, and Banking reform, to ensure that people are never again forced to pay the debts of a bunch of testosterone fuelled, reckless, arrogant gits.
I support punishment for all wrongdoing.

Unfortunately, this thread proves that this will never happen - because people don't want justice, reform, and a better future for our children - they want revenge, and they want it now - and Sean Quinns head will do nicely, since the powers that be have so far refused to offer up any more significant players heads on a platter.

Here's my suspicions (guess!) about what is going on here.
They are blatantly making sure that Fitz and cronies don't make court until Quinn has been dealt with & destroyed and the sheeple think he is the main culprit.(working so far) Whether Quinn is playing into their hands or playing a wily game remains to be seen.
They have taken Quinn down, without allowing him into to court, (by not charging him with anything criminal in his dealings with Anglo) in the hope that they destroy him without revealing fully what went on in Anglo.
Then, enter Fitz, into the courtroom, in return for him not fingering anybody he gets a slap on the wrist and a comfy jail sentence.
Sheeple might object a little, rant and rave on a few forums, but still believe the destroyed Quinn was the main culprit. Order is restored.
But so far Quinn is not playing ball.......interesting times. Would love to know what was said about Fitz that had to be cut out of the Vinnie Browne programme tonight.

Happyman42

stepbar wrote: »

Any chance you could link the 'question' you want answered?

1 and 2 in the quote you provided. If you are gonna play pedantic games like the other fella, rock on. The thread has moved on without you.

thebaz

Noreen1 wrote: »

Y and Sean Quinns head will do nicely, since the powers that be have so far refused to offer up any more significant players heads on a platter.

to the second part of my question , has any other individual gone to such lengths to hide assets from the state? - I am well aware that the sorry state of the Irish Exchequer is not down to Sean Quinn alone, but he was a serious player - and the facts are today the Irish state now owns Anglo - Sean Fitzpatrick lacks much of the grassroot support the Quinns have - somehow I doubt the people in Wicklow would be marching to save his rep

narddog

If you attended the rally in Cavan, in support of Quinn, or voted for Lowry in Tipperary, or voted for Flynn in Mayo, don't turn around and complain about how Policiticans/Builders/Developers have wrecked the place.

Because you tolerate and re-elect these crooks and buffoons the country continues to suffer. Fed up hearing about how these people have destroyed the country........... BUT............ 'ol billy mac big balls up the road is a decent sort.

flynnlives

afterburn1 wrote: »

Would you back a horse that had already fallen?

bollox.

Quinn was/is a supposed businessman of note. He should have done his homework.

he didnt.

Loans were backed against assets. We own the assets now. We want our money back!
Quinn has down everything in his power to whittle and hide away the properties and has admitted so.

He is basically giving us the finger!
how 5 thousand people can show up and support this man is beyond me. No wonder the country is ****ed.

Happyman42

narddog wrote: »

If you attended the rally in Cavan,

Nobody on this thread has said they were at it that I have seen.

in support of Quinn,

Haven't seen very many support what he did either. Sorry.

stepbar

Happyman42 wrote: »

stepbar wrote: »

Any chance you could link the 'question' you want answered?

1 and 2 in the quote you provided. If you are gonna play pedantic games like the other fella, rock on. The thread has moved on without you.

Are you going to continue to dodge the question? Funny how 1 question turns into 2. Please LINK the question you want answered. Simple request to be honest.

M three

flynnlives wrote: »

bollox.

Quinn was/is a supposed businessman of note. He should have done his homework.

he didnt.

Loans were backed against assets. We own the assets now. We want our money back!

Cool, lets start with the 30 billion that was pumped into anglo by the government. I'm sure you will recognise that that amount is over 10 times the maximum possible amount quinn may owe anglo.

Whats your plan for getting that back?

Happyman42

stepbar wrote: »

Are you going to continue to dodge the question? Funny how 1 question turns into 2. Please LINK the question you want answered. Simple request to be honest.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Asked here:

Happyman42 wrote: »

As I said yesterday......do we know the full facts of what went on at Anglo yet? That is all the proof necessary, due process has not been followed here and IMO there is a reason for that.
If Quinn broke the law in his dealings with Anglo, WHY WAS HE NOT CHARGED AND BROUGHT TO TRIAL?
I believe it's because the bank and the government don't want us to know what went on, certainly not at the moment anyway. Does that not tell all of you 'educated' people something?
They had enough 'evidence' and 'information' to take away his business without due process and they had enough evidence to charge Fitz, and the ringleaders from the get go, yet how long did we have to wait for them to be charged? ( the ringleaders of banking fraud in other juristictions are in court on charges and tried with-in months, but here???)
Quinn has never been charged with an offence relating to his role. I call bull**** on your reasoning for that, 'that it was because Quinn hid the facts'. The government has been prattling on with certainty about what he was up to...but has he been charged?

I am as critical of Quinn and what he did as the next man, however as this develops it is plain as the nose on your face that the potential is there for this to be another cover-up of what really went on. Quinn is the sideshow to keep the hysterical sheeple happy, and you are all falling for it.

Then here again

Happyman42 wrote: »

I have expressed my 'opinion'. You are being pedantic for a second day.

Tell us all Biggins, why do YOU think Quinn hasn't been charged with a criminal offence for what he did at Anglo?

Again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

If investigations are continuing....how do we know Quinn did anything wrong when the bank was functioning? On what basis or evidence are you claiming that he did? Or is it 'just your opinion' that he did?
You can't have it both ways Biggins, either there is evidence that he broke the law or there isn't, which is it?
If there is evidence, which I believe there is plenty, that he broke the law, WHY has he not been charged.
And you know why I and others think that is.

again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

Playing to the gallery Biggins, or the sheeple cavalry?

On what are you basing your 'opinion' that Quinn engaged in criminal activity when Anglo was a functioning bank? It's a simple question.

Yet again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

What allegations? I have given my opinions and the facts that I base those opinions on.
Again.......I am asking you to provide the 'facts' for your opinion that Quinn broke the law in relation to what he was doing while Anglo was a functioning bank. Do these 'facts' exist or not?

Yawn.....again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

:D
it's a tough one to answer Biggins, eh?

Yet Again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

We are still waiting for you to tell us what he did illegally when Anglo functioned as a bank Biggins.

Again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

Now, now Biggins, that was answered comprehensively. I give the facts and then I gave my opinion of the facts. Have you?.....eh....NOPE.

I didn't lie, you presented a spurious transcript from the court, about something unrelated to what I was asking you about. You acknowledged that yourself yesterday, but you tried it on again today. NO JUDGE OR JURY HAS PROUNOUNCED AN OPINION OR VERDICT ON WHAT QUINN DID WHEN ANGLO WAS FUNCTIONING AS A BANK.
You said it was a fact that he did something illegal, but you STILL have not told us what that was and presented the facts of that. And we all know why you won't present that. Less of the hissy fits and answer the question you were asked.

And now you want to start: :rolleyes:

Happyman42 wrote: »

Do you want to have a go at the question Biggins won't answer?

p.s. I am blue in the face saying Quinn did wrong.

stepbar

M three wrote: »

flynnlives wrote: »

bollox.

Quinn was/is a supposed businessman of note. He should have done his homework.

he didnt.

Loans were backed against assets. We own the assets now. We want our money back!

Cool, lets start with the 30 billion that was pumped into anglo by the government. I'm sure you will recognise that that amount is over 10 times the maximum possible amount quinn may owe anglo.

Whats your plan for getting that back?

Quinn is part of that 30bil owed to the taxpayer. I hope your not trying to make light of that fact.

flynnlives

M three wrote: »

Cool, lets start with the 30 billion that was pumped into anglo by the government. I'm sure you will recognise that that amount is over 10 times the maximum possible amount quinn may owe anglo.

Whats your plan for getting that back?

another injustice on the Irish people.

But it doesnt get Quinn of the hook.

M three

flynnlives wrote: »

another injustice on the Irish people.

But it doesnt get Quinn of the hook.

Of course, but you stated "We want our money back!"

Most of the money buried in Anglo was put in there by the government to pay off bondholders, foreign bondholders.

I'm interested in how you propose this money should be gotten back, and be specific please.

Happyman42

M three wrote: »

Of course, but you stated "We want our money back!"

I'm interested in how you propose this should be done, and be specific please.

They are not interested in getting money back though, if they where Fitz would not have been walking around for the last 4 years. Into court, sworn testimonies and life sentences for deluding the courts. And that goes for Quinn as well. But of course, he hasn't been charged with any criminality for his dealings with Anglo.
Look at how swift justice was delivered to those who committed fraud in the States banking scandals.
4 freaking years and they talk about seeking justice????

flynnlives

M three wrote: »

Of course, but you stated "We want our money back!"

Most of the money buried in Anglo was put in there by the government to pay off bondholders, foreign bondholders.

I'm interested in how you propose this money should be gotten back, and be specific please.

we cant cause the FF traitors gauranteed those bondholders.

Bondholders, senior and depositors are first in line to be repaid.

Quinn wasnt a bondholder.

stepbar

Happyman42 wrote: »

stepbar wrote: »

Are you going to continue to dodge the question? Funny how 1 question turns into 2. Please LINK the question you want answered. Simple request to be honest.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Asked here:

Happyman42 wrote: »

As I said yesterday......do we know the full facts of what went on at Anglo yet? That is all the proof necessary, due process has not been followed here and IMO there is a reason for that.
If Quinn broke the law in his dealings with Anglo, WHY WAS HE NOT CHARGED AND BROUGHT TO TRIAL?
I believe it's because the bank and the government don't want us to know what went on, certainly not at the moment anyway. Does that not tell all of you 'educated' people something?
They had enough 'evidence' and 'information' to take away his business without due process and they had enough evidence to charge Fitz, and the ringleaders from the get go, yet how long did we have to wait for them to be charged? ( the ringleaders of banking fraud in other juristictions are in court on charges and tried with-in months, but here???)
Quinn has never been charged with an offence relating to his role. I call bull**** on your reasoning for that, 'that it was because Quinn hid the facts'. The government has been prattling on with certainty about what he was up to...but has he been charged?

I am as critical of Quinn and what he did as the next man, however as this develops it is plain as the nose on your face that the potential is there for this to be another cover-up of what really went on. Quinn is the sideshow to keep the hysterical sheeple happy, and you are all falling for it.

Then here again

Happyman42 wrote: »

I have expressed my 'opinion'. You are being pedantic for a second day.

Tell us all Biggins, why do YOU think Quinn hasn't been charged with a criminal offence for what he did at Anglo?

Again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

If investigations are continuing....how do we know Quinn did anything wrong when the bank was functioning? On what basis or evidence are you claiming that he did? Or is it 'just your opinion' that he did?
You can't have it both ways Biggins, either there is evidence that he broke the law or there isn't, which is it?
If there is evidence, which I believe there is plenty, that he broke the law, WHY has he not been charged.
And you know why I and others think that is.

again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

Playing to the gallery Biggins, or the sheeple cavalry?

On what are you basing your 'opinion' that Quinn engaged in criminal activity when Anglo was a functioning bank? It's a simple question.

Yet again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

What allegations? I have given my opinions and the facts that I base those opinions on.
Again.......I am asking you to provide the 'facts' for your opinion that Quinn broke the law in relation to what he was doing while Anglo was a functioning bank. Do these 'facts' exist or not?

Yawn.....again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

:D
it's a tough one to answer Biggins, eh?

Yet Again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

We are still waiting for you to tell us what he did illegally when Anglo functioned as a bank Biggins.

Again:

Happyman42 wrote: »

Now, now Biggins, that was answered comprehensively. I give the facts and then I gave my opinion of the facts. Have you?.....eh....NOPE.

I didn't lie, you presented a spurious transcript from the court, about something unrelated to what I was asking you about. You acknowledged that yourself yesterday, but you tried it on again today. NO JUDGE OR JURY HAS PROUNOUNCED AN OPINION OR VERDICT ON WHAT QUINN DID WHEN ANGLO WAS FUNCTIONING AS A BANK.
You said it was a fact that he did something illegal, but you STILL have not told us what that was and presented the facts of that. And we all know why you won't present that. Less of the hissy fits and answer the question you were asked.

And now you want to start: :rolleyes:

Happyman42 wrote: »

Do you want to have a go at the question Biggins won't answer?

p.s. I am blue in the face saying Quinn did wrong.

Finally....

Quinn done nothing illegal by entering into CFD's to buy Anglo shares. What was illegal was that he dipped into the reserves of QIL to pay for same. Subsequently, QIL was fined 3.25 mil for solvency breaches. SQ himself was fined 200k and was forced to resign as chairman of QIL.

M three

flynnlives wrote: »

we cant cause the FF traitors gauranteed those bondholders.

Bondholders, senior and depositors are first in line to be repaid.

Quinn wasnt a bondholder.

So first you say you "want the money back!" that has gone into anglo but now say that we, taxpayers, wont get it? I see you havent thought this through.

If you want to go after the cash then shouldnt we be focusing on the big huge 63 billion that has been given to banks, by the current and last government?? which we then have to repay to the EU and IMF.

Is the whole quinn thing just a tool to divert us away from looking at the bigger picture?

People are banging on here about 2% levys.
FFS 63 billion divided by about 3 million taxpayers equals 21000 euro per taxpayer.
Clear enough that the quinn thing is a nice little sideshow by the powers that be to distract people

Happyman42

stepbar wrote: »

Finally....

Quinn done nothing illegal by entering into CFD's to buy Anglo shares.

Did he pay?
Has he been charged for non payment of the debt and allowed to defend himself the way anybody else would expect due process?

*My failure to reply will be because I am off on hols tomorrow....no other reason. Nite all.

stepbar

Happyman42 wrote: »

stepbar wrote: »

Finally....

Quinn done nothing illegal by entering into CFD's to buy Anglo shares.

Did he pay?
Has he been charged for non payment of the debt and allowed to defend himself the way anybody else would expect due process?

*My failure to reply will be because I am off on hols tomorrow....no other reason. Nite all.

Did he pay???

His family now owns 15% of a nationalised bank.

Did he pay :rolleyes: FFS.

Noreen1

thebaz wrote: »

to the second part of my question , has any other individual gone to such lengths to hide assets from the state? - I am well aware that the sorry state of the Irish Exchequer is not down to Sean Quinn alone, but he was a serious player - and the facts are today the Irish state now owns Anglo - Sean Fitzpatrick lacks much of the grassroot support the Quinns have - somehow I doubt the people in Wicklow would be marching to save his rep

Probably not.
Have several players gone to great lengths to ensure that the Irish taxpayer picks up the tab? Over 96% of the total tab, in Anglos case alone? Do we have any details to judge what lengths they've gone to to protect either their own, or vested interests?
Absolutely not.
But - shh - let's not mention them, because, you know, it would detract from a good rant.

I'm off out for several hours.