Rally for The Quinn-were you there?

darkhorse

kr7 wrote: »

More censorship by our 'leaders'?

Quinn is wrong, very wrong but surely FG gagging their members is wrong too.

We're entitled to know who we vote for and what they stand for!

Two words

---

George Lee. They seem not to want people that really want to get to the heart of the truth and try and make a difference.

Icepick

seamus wrote: »

putting a lot of people's kids through college.

This is not the US. Ordinary taxpayers are putting kids through college.

darkhorse

JustAddWater wrote: »

In 1 tweet ...

Quinn took a risk, lost. Bank want money, he won't pay. Why do some people support him?

interesting to know wrote: »

I'm not, I'm just an average Joe. I just wanted to relay the facts. I have been asked by a number of people to attend the rally and when I ask them why they are attending, they state, Anglo is on a witchhunt.

Anglo is on a hunt alright for irish taxpayers money currently residing in eastern Europe.

I do not the know the Quinns. I just speak after hearing all the facts in any story. Now, it seems to me that Mr Quinns biggest mistake was that was that he was not a bondholder, think about it. Also, I do certainly believe that Anglo is attempting to deflect all the muck from themselves and the have the govt. on side. Lastly, I want to say that the irish taxpayers money that the average Joe(I'm an average Joe myself,btw) is talking about is another ploy to pit the majority of citizens against the Quinns, because as we know at this stage, that no matter how much money is recovered on behalf of the taxpayer, the powers that be will make sure that taxpayer is that last person to benefit, ie bondholders have to be paid, advisers have to be paid---I could go on and on but whats the point, and they will just keep thinking up new tax headings in which to suck every last penny from the normal average Joe. Yes, I do believe that its a witchhunt and it makes me angry that there is a whole bunch worse than Sean Quinn walking around and funded by the taxpayers for the rest of their lives, and then some.

stepbar

darkhorse wrote: »

I do not the know the Quinns. I just speak after hearing all the facts in any story. Now, it seems to me that Mr Quinns biggest mistake was that was that he was not a bondholder, think about it. Also, I do certainly believe that Anglo is attempting to deflect all the muck from themselves and the have the govt. on side. Lastly, I want to say that the irish taxpayers money that the average Joe(I'm an average Joe myself,btw) is talking about is another ploy to pit the majority of citizens against the Quinns, because as we know at this stage, that no matter how much money is recovered on behalf of the taxpayer, the powers that be will make sure that taxpayer is that last person to benefit, ie bondholders have to be paid, advisers have to be paid---I could go on and on but whats the point, and they will just keep thinking up new tax headings in which to suck every last penny from the normal average Joe. Yes, I do believe that its a witchhunt and it makes me angry that there is a whole bunch worse than Sean Quinn walking around and funded by the taxpayers for the rest of their lives, and then some.

Sean Quin's biggest mistake was betting on a bank. Betting money he didn't have. Simple as. And lets be clear - his gambling was done without reference to Anglo - they were absolutely horrified when they found out he amassed a 28% position in Anglo (shareholding is the wrong word here as at that point he had not closed out the CFD's). The taxpayer is now picking up the tab.

interesting to know

darkhorse wrote: »

I do not the know the Quinns. I just speak after hearing all the facts in any story. Now, it seems to me that Mr Quinns biggest mistake was that was that he was not a bondholder, think about it. Also, I do certainly believe that Anglo is attempting to deflect all the muck from themselves and the have the govt. on side. Lastly, I want to say that the irish taxpayers money that the average Joe(I'm an average Joe myself,btw) is talking about is another ploy to pit the majority of citizens against the Quinns, because as we know at this stage, that no matter how much money is recovered on behalf of the taxpayer, the powers that be will make sure that taxpayer is that last person to benefit, ie bondholders have to be paid, advisers have to be paid---I could go on and on but whats the point, and they will just keep thinking up new tax headings in which to suck every last penny from the normal average Joe. Yes, I do believe that its a witchhunt and it makes me angry that there is a whole bunch worse than Sean Quinn walking around and funded by the taxpayers for the rest of their lives, and then some.

You may be right in relation to where the recovered monies end up. But that does not mean you should support Quinn. He is not the victim here. One evil does not justify another.

In the UK as well bondholders come before shareholders. That is just the regulations. Sean Quinn chose to bet on the contracts for difference and when he lost , he bought the shares to rally the price.

He chose not to be a bondholder because the returns are not as high as CFDs. He lost and should pay up, simply as.

I mention you may be right in relation to where the recovered monies go. But you are missing a very important point here. Bondholders will be paid regardless if the monies are recovered or not from reckless developers etc.

The less we recover the more the Irish taxpayer has to fork out..

So why are you supporting Quinn & Co when you know for every asset they hide it is costing you more in tax (or should I say monies diverted from public services such as hospitals and roads

The longer this debacle goes on the more it is also costing in solicitors fee. Who do you think is picking up the tab for it.

If Quinn has any respect towards the people that support him, it would give up all the assets.

HalloweenJack

OT, I know, but it would be great if Peter Quinn would have a look at this story:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19153650

So an American singer being questioned regarding the death of a fan at his concert is going to cooperate with the Czech courts when he could end up being charged with murder/manslaughter.

Some choice quotes (the capitalised words are present in the article):

On returning to the US, he said: "If it is deemed necessary for me to do so, I WILL return to Prague to stand trial."

He said it would be "irresponsible and immoral" not to return for any trial.

In a statement he said: "While I maintain my innocence 100%, and will do so steadfastly, I will NOT hide in the United States, safe from extradition and possible prosecution."

"I am a man," he continued. "I was raised to face my problems head on, not run from them like a petulant child.

"I feel VERY STRONGLY that as an adult, it would be both irresponsible and immoral for me not to return to Prague if I am summoned."

He thinks he did no wrong, like Peter Quinn, but he has the decency to cooperate with the justice system, instead of throwing his toys out of the pram like a little baby.

darkhorse

interesting to know wrote: »

You may be right in relation to where the recovered monies end up. But that does not mean you should support Quinn. He is not the victim here. One evil does not justify another.

In the UK as well bondholders come before shareholders. That is just the regulations. Sean Quinn chose to bet on the contracts for difference and when he lost , he bought the shares to rally the price.

He chose not to be a bondholder because the returns are not as high as CFDs. He lost and should pay up, simply as.

I mention you may be right in relation to where the recovered monies go. But you are missing a very important point here. Bondholders will be paid regardless if the monies are recovered or not from reckless developers etc.

The less we recover the more the Irish taxpayer has to fork out..

So why are you supporting Quinn & Co when you know for every asset they hide it is costing you more in tax (or should I say monies diverted from public services such as hospitals and roads

The longer this debacle goes on the more it is also costing in solicitors fee. Who do you think is picking up the tab for it.

If Quinn has any respect towards the people that support him, it would give up all the assets.

Hi,

Just because I am stating the facts here as I have read them so far and listened to several interviews about this case, does not mean that I support or condone what he has done. But I reckon that if he and his family are going to be dragged through the courts, it is only proper that everyone involved should be held to account. Don't forget, we have already heard that this man offered to pay back every penny over a few years, but his offer was refused. Were you, as a taxpayer, consulted about this offer to pay back all of this money, I know I was'nt.
Regarding my remark where I said that it was a big mistake on his part that he was'nt a bondholder, what I meant by that was, that no matter how much he would have gambled as a bondholder, he would have got his money back. But that is a well known fact, I don't have to tell ya how that works. The last thing I would say is that if he get as fair a shake as Anglo seems to be getting, well, the truth will prevail in the end. So I hope that I made my point a bit clearer. Goodnight, all.

fasttalkerchat

Fermanagh District Council is to offer its "moral wishes of support" to bankrupt billionaire Sean Quinn and his family.
Chief Executive Brendan Hegarty will be sending a letter in light of the "significant contribution" by the Quinns to the border area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19164383

listermint

darkhorse wrote: »

Hi,

Just because I am stating the facts here as I have read them so far and listened to several interviews about this case, does not mean that I support or condone what he has done. But I reckon that if he and his family are going to be dragged through the courts, it is only proper that everyone involved should be held to account.[B] Don't forget, we have already heard that this man offered to pay back every penny over a few years, but his offer was refused. Were you, as a taxpayer, consulted about this offer to pay back all of this money, I know I was'nt.[/B]
Regarding my remark where I said that it was a big mistake on his part that he was'nt a bondholder, what I meant by that was, that no matter how much he would have gambled as a bondholder, he would have got his money back. But that is a well known fact, I don't have to tell ya how that works. The last thing I would say is that if he get as fair a shake as Anglo seems to be getting, well, the truth will prevail in the end. So I hope that I made my point a bit clearer. Goodnight, all.

Firstly The Garda are compiling many cases of fraud in fact its a vast job for them to complete so be patient.

Secondly

He was saying this while at the same time sifting vast assets out of reach in russia and elsewhere.


Your blind if you think that Sean Quinn is the end of it, in fact its the beginning.

Noreen1

interesting to know wrote: »

Whether you have an interest or not, Sean Quinn former business magnate and billionaire has been making the media headlines constantly over the past number of years.

The most recent headline – has been the rally and show of solidarity for Quinn and his supposedly beleaguered family.
However, the key question is, do these people really understand what they are supporting?

I will attempt to explain the downfall of Sean Quinn, without sounding condescending in layman terms, so joe public can make an informed decision.

The purpose of this article is to provide the FACTS only.
(1) Long before the banking crisis. In 2002 Sean Quinn signed over the majority of his assets (including the following companies: Quinn Insurance, packaging, glass and cement) to his five children (to be divided equally among them).Whilst remaining an incredibly wealthly man, the “cash cow” highly profitable companies were under control of his children.

(2) Sean Quinn is not the victim of Anglo Irish “toxic” Bank blowing all his investment wrecklessly on crazy lending during the boom without him knowing.

(3) Mr. Quinn in 2006 only owned a small share of Anglo Irish Bank.

(4) Where things went badly wrong was when Sean Quinn entered into highly risky bets called “contracts for difference”. Without boring you with the financial terms, it quite simply means that two parties place a wager against each other. One bets that the share price of a company will rise by a certain date, the other person bets it will fall.

(5) Mr Quinn bet the price of Anglo Irish bank would rise, however as we all know the construction industry collapsed and Anglo’s share price quickly followed (quite simply because all the money it lent was into to the construction industry).

(6) Now the key thing of contracts for difference is that you don’t simply lose your initial bet. You are liable for the entire difference in share price, whether is rises or falls.

(7) For example. I place a stake that Facebook’s share will increase (go long) by a certain date. Another guys reckons it will fall (go short) by the same date. We quite simply place our bets. So I put my stake down (usually 20% of the current share price x by the number of shares I want. So I want 10 facebook shares. They are currently trading at £50 each. So that is £500 worth of shares and I need to put up 20% of this, which is £100. The other guy does the same. Facebook’s shares take a big tumble and are trading at £25 per share now. This is really bad because it means that I owe the other guy the difference between the original share price and the price the shares are when then the contract for difference is up. This means I owe the other guy 10 x £25 – my original stake of £100= which means I owe the other guy £150.

(8) Sean Quinn made this same bet with another guy on Anglo only on a much bigger scale. So you recognise the amount he owes to the other party. Anglo share price was trading at a high over €10 a share. They now are worthless.
(9) The guy he made the contract for difference with is unknown.

(10) Now this is the really juicy bit. Once the share price collapsed Mr. Quinn could have went bankrupt because quite simply he didn’t have enough money to cover his losses.

(11) But he chose not to for some really strange reason. He thought he could fix things. So he decided to buy these shares that he bet on previously (28% of Anglo in total) which he hoped would raise the price of the shares and recover some of his losses. However, as we know this was very poor advice he received as the construction industry was in no way about to recover. But the key thing here is as we know from earlier Mr.Quinn did not have the wealth himself to purchase the share as remember he signed over all his companies to children in earlier years.

(12) He somehow convinced Anglo to loan him money to buy Anglo’s own shares which is completely illegal under company law.

(13) Realising the share price was not going to recover, he knew he had to offload the shares, but also realised that he couldn’t offload all of this shares at once because speculators know when large amount of shares come under to the market all once that the company is in trouble.

(14) So he sold his shares to the following: 15% of Anglo went to the Quinn family and children and the other 10% went to the maple ten, investors and friends of Sean Quinn.

(16) However, what he did was pretty much transfer the debt (that he owed Anglo from the loan he took from them to buy the share for himself) to his children and friends and the Quinn companies which were pretty much debt free up and until now.

(17) With the downturn, the Quinn businesses such as cement and packaging were not performing as well as they were previously. The loan payments were due and the only Quinn company that could make payment was the insurance business.

(18) The family took €200 milllion from the insurance business to service the repayments for the anglo loan. However, this money was essentially from the insurance reserve, money kept in reserve to pay out claims on car accidents etc. The insurance regulator quickly recognised that if Quinn Insurance got an influx of large claims all once it didn’t have the money to pay them and stepped in and took control of the insurance arm.

(19) It meant that the Quinn family were left to service the anglo debt but were no longer in control of the cash cow insurance arm. Without this insurance company the Quinn family didn’t have a chance of repaying the anglo loans. And the rest is history. So when the Quinn family defaulted on the loan repayments Anglo took control of the remaining Quinn companies in an effort to recoup their losses.

(20) The Quinns quickly moved to put their international assets, namely a Russian hotel among other outside of the control of Anglo, in a web of complex companies.


Points to Note.
You as the taxpayer have bailed out the banks. Now the banks are trying to repay back to the taxpayer these monies through clawing back as much as possible from the sale of assets from developers and other it has loaned money originally.Anglo is doing the same with Sean Quinn and is obviously is trying to claim back more money.

Quite simply, the less assets Anglo can recover the more the taxpayer has to fork out.

So by hiding assets in complex transactions, the Quinn family is costing the taxpayer more money. They are also disputing the legality of the money Anglo lent Sean originally to buy the shares. However, if the shares had have increased instead of dropped, they wouldn’t be disputing the legality of the loans.

So the question has to be asked, will you rally to support Sean Quinn and family knowing they are hitting your back pocket as they hid assets?

Why didn’t Sean Quinn go bankrupt instead of asking his children’s companies to take over his debt. If he went bankrupt before transferring the debt (the worthless shares) to his children and their companies, the Quinn Family would still be in control on the Quinn Group as the children did not owe the debt to Anglo, Sean did.

Excellent explanation.

There are some things that I believe the public need to know, though.

1: Who did Sean Quinn take advice from re: CFDs?
2: Who was the other party in the CFDs?
3: Sean Quinn somehow persuaded Anglo to loan him money to buy shares? Link?

I am not defending the hiding of assets. But so many things don't fit.
For example: Sean Quinn was known as a man who didn't gamble excessive amounts. Yet he took out CFDs?
On whose advice?
Who was the other party?
Was there a link between that other party, and either the adviser, or Anglo?

Not only that - when he lost the bet - he then engaged in taking out massive loans to buy shares.
That doesn't sound like a move someone who built a massive business empire from nothing would easily consider, especially if he is known as someone who doesn't gamble anything other than modest amounts.
So, why did he? On whose advice?

One thing is certain. No businessman would either gamble on CFDs, and then take out massive loans, unless he was very sure that Anglo was financially sound. So - how did he reach that conclusion, and on whose assurances?

For me, those are the questions that need to be answered before anything resembling the full picture emerges.

tayto lover

I'd like to hear those answers too Noreen, just out of curiosity.
I have a suspicion that there is something very fishy behind this and some people being protected and would love to know who.

newport2

Noreen1 wrote: »

One thing is certain. No businessman would either gamble on CFDs, and then take out massive loans, unless he was very sure that Anglo was financially sound. So - how did he reach that conclusion, and on whose assurances?

I think it came down to things booming for year after year for over a decade. It was ingrained into peoples heads that banks and property were a winner, the only way was up. You just couldn't lose. Things like auditing/regulating/risk assessment to validate the soundness of your investments were neglected.

newport2

darkhorse wrote: »

I do not the know the Quinns. I just speak after hearing all the facts in any story. Now, it seems to me that Mr Quinns biggest mistake was that was that he was not a bondholder, think about it.

Agreed. And was he willing to settle for a nice annual return on his money he would have been. But greed did not allow him to settle for this and he went down the far riskier path of other financial instruments that could return multiples of what bonds could. So his biggest mistake was being far greedier than bondholders.

fasttalkerchat

newport2 wrote: »

I think it came down to things booming for year after year for over a decade. It was ingrained into peoples heads that banks and property were a winner, the only way was up. You just couldn't lose. Things like auditing/regulating/risk assessment to validate the soundness of your investments were neglected.

I knew that house prices would eventually fall and you can be sure as hell that Sean Quinn knew it too.

listermint

Noreen1 wrote: »

Excellent explanation.

There are some things that I believe the public need to know, though.

1: Who did Sean Quinn take advice from re: CFDs?
2: Who was the other party in the CFDs?
3: Sean Quinn somehow persuaded Anglo to loan him money to buy shares? Link?

I am not defending the hiding of assets. But so many things don't fit.
For example: Sean Quinn was known as a man who didn't gamble excessive amounts. Yet he took out CFDs?
On whose advice?
Who was the other party?
Was there a link between that other party, and either the adviser, or Anglo?

Not only that - when he lost the bet - he then engaged in taking out massive loans to buy shares.
That doesn't sound like a move someone who built a massive business empire from nothing would easily consider, especially if he is known as someone who doesn't gamble anything other than modest amounts.
So, why did he? On whose advice?

One thing is certain. No businessman would either gamble on CFDs, and then take out massive loans, unless he was very sure that Anglo was financially sound. So - how did he reach that conclusion, and on whose assurances?

For me, those are the questions that need to be answered before anything resembling the full picture emerges.

Ah jesus, this reads like the whos who of conspiracy theories. If there really was a big bad devil sitting on his shoulder feeding him this advice (even from government) would you not think giving his circumstance it would be all over the media from the quinn side.

Just because he built a huge business empire doesnt mean he is void from making bad decisions.

newport2

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I knew that house prices would eventually fall and you can be sure as hell that Sean Quinn knew it too.

I know that house prices will eventually rise in the future. I know that house prices will eventually fall in the future. Of these two things I'm a 100% certain.

As to when they do and by how much, totally different. If Sean knew the property crash was coming, he would have cleaned up. He didn't. He just knew - like you and me - that at some point in the vague future that property prices would fall.

fasttalkerchat

newport2 wrote: »

I know that house prices will eventually rise in the future. I know that house prices will eventually fall in the future. Of these two things I'm a 100% certain.

As to when they do and by how much, totally different. If Sean knew the property crash was coming, he would have cleaned up. He didn't. He just knew - like you and me - that at some point in the vague future that property prices would fall.

Given that he had already planned where his money would go when he handed over the business to his family surely he wasn't still gambling it on a market that he knew was going to fall in the coming years?
Its much more likely that with his close dealings and inside knowledge that he knew (or thought he knew) something that made continued investment a good move.

darkhorse

listermint wrote: »

Ah jesus, this reads like the whos who of conspiracy theories. If there really was a big bad devil sitting on his shoulder feeding him this advice (even from government) would you not think giving his circumstance it would be all over the media from the quinn side.

Just because he built a huge business empire doesnt mean he is void from making bad decisions.

Maybe there is a lot that he cannot put in the meeja, cause of the impending court case. Does that sound feasable.

Blured

This is a very good piece on it from the BBC website

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19063419

On who the other side of the CFD is/was - dont think that information has ever made it out into the public. More than likely it was a CFD Broker for a large Hedge Fund - they are the only ones with the money to really be taking on risks/opportunities like this

Noreen1

listermint wrote: »

Ah jesus, this reads like the whos who of conspiracy theories. If there really was a big bad devil sitting on his shoulder feeding him this advice (even from government) would you not think giving his circumstance it would be all over the media from the quinn side.

Just because he built a huge business empire doesnt mean he is void from making bad decisions.

I neither mentioned the word conspiracy, nor big bad devils sitting on his shoulders. I certainly never mentioned the Government.

I questioned what appears to be behaviour that is completely out of character for Sean Quinn.
I sought further information. That, my friend, is logic - not conspiracy!

In any case - I'm sure much of this information should come to light, whenever Sean Quinns dispute case manages to make it to court.
I just have this strange habit of trying to look at both sides of the story, and motives, and such like, before I reach for a hangmans noose. (or a few of them, as the case may be)
Strange habit, I know - but there ya go!:D

darkhorse

Blured wrote: »

This is a very good piece on it from the BBC website

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19063419

On who the other side of the CFD is/was - dont think that information has ever made it out into the public. More than likely it was a CFD Broker for a large Hedge Fund - they are the only ones with the money to really be taking on risks/opportunities like this

What I find most ironic, after reading this story, is the fact that the relevant authorities did not want to work with Sean Quinn to try and recover something in the way of cash or assets, while at the same time, allowing failed developers to manage their former businesses, even getting lucratively paid. I can't understand that.

Noreen1

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd like to hear those answers too Noreen, just out of curiosity.
I have a suspicion that there is something very fishy behind this and some people being protected and would love to know who.

I have to admit to being very suspicious. Then again, I'm automatically suspicious of anything to do with Anglo - after all, weren't we going to provide the cheapest bailout in history?
Someone told some massive whoppers there - the question is - was it the banks, or the politicians? A combination of both? Or a scheme dreamed up between them?

What it most certainly was not, was a miscalculation - not of that magnitude!!
The whole thing reeks - especially the golden handshakes, and no prosecutions to date, except Sean Quinn.

dj jarvis

Noreen1 wrote: »

I have to admit to being very suspicious. Then again, I'm automatically suspicious of anything to do with Anglo - after all, weren't we going to provide the cheapest bailout in history?
Someone told some massive whoppers there - the question is - was it the banks, or the politicians? A combination of both? Or a scheme dreamed up between them?

What it most certainly was not, was a miscalculation - not of that magnitude!!
The whole thing reeks - especially the golden handshakes, and no prosecutions to date, except Sean Quinn.

3 anglo executives have been prosecuted and are awaiting trial - sean quinn has not be prosecuted of anything as far as i can see,
contempt of court is not a prosecution ( as far as i know - open to correction )

with he news that has been released today - that on top of the money he cost US with the anglo gamble , his actions now are going to cost us 1.6 billion extra - and he was trying to hide 500 million that belong's to us.

he should be banged up - his family should get NO living allowances , why should they , go out and get f2ucking jobs like everyone else
stripped of all assets to repay the state

and to the people who went to that rally - you are a bunch of clowns
country people have more intelligence ??? on this evidence they are easily led

we will see how many now will stick their head's above the parapet - well , the stupid ones will

this man has NO defense for his actions - all this D4 media sh1te, its a poor smoke screen for his buddys, who we all know have a long history of being up standing citizens

FFS - if the working class man tried 1% of what he and his family got up to , his feet would not touch the ground on the way to prison

Noreen1

dj jarvis wrote: »

3 anglo executives have been prosecuted and are awaiting trial - sean quinn has not be prosecuted of anything as far as i can see,
contempt of court is not a prosecution ( as far as i know - open to correction )

with he news that has been released today - that on top of the money he cost US with the anglo gamble , his actions now are going to cost us 1.6 billion extra - and he was trying to hide 500 million that belong's to us.

he should be banged up - his family should get NO living allowances , why should they , go out and get f2ucking jobs like everyone else
stripped of all assets to repay the state

and to the people who went to that rally - you are a bunch of clowns
country people have more intelligence ??? on this evidence they are easily led

we will see how many now will stick their head's above the parapet - well , the stupid ones will

this man has NO defense for his actions - all this D4 media sh1te, its a poor smoke screen for his buddys, who we all know have a long history of being up standing citizens

FFS - if the working class man tried 1% of what he and his family got up to , his feet would not touch the ground on the way to prison

3 Anglo executives have been charged - not prosecuted, afaik.
I'd appreciate a link to the 1.6 Billion extra story ,and the source for the 500 million he was trying to hide.
Was that 500 million the money that he doesn't dispute owing?

As to the clowns bit - I wasn't at the rally, so if that's aimed at me, you're wasting your breath.
I'm not sure I'd call these people clowns, though.
Mistaken? Maybe. At least they're willing to get up and make their voices heard. They deserve some respect for that, imo, whether they are mistaken ,or not.

dj jarvis

Noreen1 wrote: »

3 Anglo executives have been charged - not prosecuted, afaik.
I'd appreciate a link to the 1.6 Billion extra story ,and the source for the 500 million he was trying to hide.
Was that 500 million the money that he doesn't dispute owing?

As to the clowns bit - I wasn't at the rally, so if that's aimed at me, you're wasting your breath.
I'm not sure I'd call these people clowns, though.
Mistaken? Maybe. At least they're willing to get up and make their voices heard. They deserve some respect for that, imo, whether they are mistaken ,or not.

calm down dear - no way was that directed at you , and cant see how you would think that - its at the clowns at the rally

1.6 billion story is all over the news - right now and every paper - for quinn insurance - ya know the company he STOLE the reserves from , the same company that is now going to cost us a EXTRA 1.6 billion

as for the 500 million - he admits trying to hide it so anglo ( now us ) cant get back some of the money he OWES US
he took a gamble and lost - now he has to pay up

this rubbish of it was a company and nothing to do with him is total bull**** and he WILL be caught for it - and proper order

he is was and is a shyster who got caught - tough **** on him and his cronies

some links for ya
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/quinn-insurance-fallout-costs-could-top-165bn-courts-3194073.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0807/breaking37.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0807/court-told-quinn-insurance-fallout-may-top-1-65bn.html

Noreen1

dj jarvis wrote: »

calm down dear - no way was that directed at you , and cant see how you would think that - its at the clowns at the rally

1.6 billion story is all over the news - right now and every paper - for quinn insurance - ya know the company he STOLE the reserves from , the same company that is now going to cost us a EXTRA 1.6 billion

as for the 500 million - he admits trying to hide it so anglo ( now us ) cant get back some of the money he OWES US
he took a gamble and lost - now he has to pay up

this rubbish of it was a company and nothing to do with him is total bull**** and he WILL be caught for it - and proper order

he is was and is a shyster who got caught - tough **** on him and his cronies

some links for ya
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/quinn-insurance-fallout-costs-could-top-165bn-courts-3194073.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0807/breaking37.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0807/court-told-quinn-insurance-fallout-may-top-1-65bn.html

Hmm. 1.65Bn - 738million = 912 million, by my calculations.
Be that as it may:
If Quinn insurance was a Limited Company - and afaik, it was - then, absent of any personal guarantees - legally, he is correct. The Company is liable for the debt.

The question is, what personal guarantees did Sean Quinn give? Did he give a personal guarantee to cover Quinn insurance losses? I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think he did! If that's the case, when he lost control of the Company, the debt would have gone with it.
Was it not a Government/receiver decision to sell off the Company, and apply a levy to Joe Public for the debt? In which case, we have them to thank for the extra burden...:mad:

The next question is: IF the Company is indeed liable for the losses - just who do we "catch" for that? The receivers? The Government? I don't think so! In which case - we've been suckered - again!:mad:
Meanwhile Minister Noonan wonders how the " highly remunerated professional administrators with the support of highly remunerated actuaries and auditors could not have had greater insight into the total increased cost at an earlier stage".

FFS, you couldn't make it up!

dj jarvis

Noreen1 wrote: »

Hmm. 1.65Bn - 738million = 912 million, by my calculations.
Be that as it may:
If Quinn insurance was a Limited Company - and afaik, it was - then, absent of any personal guarantees - legally, he is correct. The Company is liable for the debt.

The question is, what personal guarantees did Sean Quinn give? Did he give a personal guarantee to cover Quinn insurance losses? I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think he did! If that's the case, when he lost control of the Company, the debt would have gone with it.
Was it not a Government/receiver decision to sell off the Company, and apply a levy to Joe Public for the debt? In which case, we have them to thank for the extra burden...:mad:

The next question is: IF the Company is indeed liable for the losses - just who do we "catch" for that? The receivers? The Government? I don't think so! In which case - we've been suckered - again!:mad:
Meanwhile Minister Noonan wonders how the " highly remunerated professional administrators with the support of highly remunerated actuaries and auditors could not have had greater insight into the total increased cost at an earlier stage".

FFS, you couldn't make it up!

and all that absolves him ??? it does in it's arse - take him to the cleaners before he slime's back across to the north like his scum nephew

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

3 anglo executives have been prosecuted and are awaiting trial - sean quinn has not be prosecuted of anything as far as i can see,
contempt of court is not a prosecution ( as far as i know - open to correction )

with he news that has been released today - that on top of the money he cost US with the anglo gamble , his actions now are going to cost us 1.6 billion extra - and he was trying to hide 500 million that belong's to us.

he should be banged up - his family should get NO living allowances , why should they , go out and get f2ucking jobs like everyone else
stripped of all assets to repay the state

and to the people who went to that rally - you are a bunch of clowns
country people have more intelligence ??? on this evidence they are easily led

we will see how many now will stick their head's above the parapet - well , the stupid ones will

this man has NO defense for his actions - all this D4 media sh1te, its a poor smoke screen for his buddys, who we all know have a long history of being up standing citizens

FFS - if the working class man tried 1% of what he and his family got up to , his feet would not touch the ground on the way to prison

I agree. The Quinns deserve to be in court and to suffer the consequences of their greed if that's what the cause of it was. BUT i wouldn't like to think that they would be the only people to suffer and i have a sneaky feeling that there are others as highly involved. It fact it might go very high up indeed. I wonder did Sean Quinn play golf?

darkhorse

dj jarvis wrote: »

calm down dear - no way was that directed at you , and cant see how you would think that - its at the clowns at the rally

1.6 billion story is all over the news - right now and every paper - for quinn insurance - ya know the company he STOLE the reserves from , the same company that is now going to cost us a EXTRA 1.6 billion

as for the 500 million - he admits trying to hide it so anglo ( now us ) cant get back some of the money he OWES US
he took a gamble and lost - now he has to pay up

this rubbish of it was a company and nothing to do with him is total bull**** and he WILL be caught for it - and proper order

he is was and is a shyster who got caught - tough **** on him and his cronies

some links for ya
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/quinn-insurance-fallout-costs-could-top-165bn-courts-3194073.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0807/breaking37.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0807/court-told-quinn-insurance-fallout-may-top-1-65bn.html

I think I'd better give poor auld mick wallace a ring, cause if you're right on this and its proved, then mick and I suspect a whole lot more will be goin down.

dj jarvis

darkhorse wrote: »

I think I'd better give poor auld mick wallace a ring, cause if you're right on this and its proved, then mick and I suspect a whole lot more will be goin down.

well its true morally if not legally - you cant destroy a huge company , break a bank , try STEAL 500 million of the state and then walk away spouting " ah sure its a limited company "

and while your onto the phone to mick Wallace tell that pr1ck we want our money back also , and while ya have the phone in your hand you can ring bertie, brian , all the FF cabinet from 2007 , sean fitz , ect ect that we are coming for them

we should hire the f2uck1ng viper to collect the money :mad: