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Rally for The Quinn-were you there?

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    #572
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    hardCopy wrote: »
    darkhorse wrote: »

    Call it what you want, we own it now. They're only robbing from us.


    O.K., you own it. We'el just leave it at that.


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    #573
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    darkhorse wrote: »
    hardCopy wrote: »


    O.K., you own it. We'el just leave it at that.

    Nope, taxpayers own it. It's our money that funds the bank, and the less money IRBC get back, the more money will have to come from the taxpayers. Quinn and his family aren't bilking Anglo, they're seeking to screw every taxpayer in the country. Including you.


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    #574
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 52,016 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    Is it too late to reinstate the Boundary Commission and give Cavan back to the crown?

    You might be doing Cavan a favour there.


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    #575
    Fred Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭Fred Cohen


    Only if they take Quinn and his debt with him.


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    #576
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Einhard wrote: »
    darkhorse wrote: »

    Nope, taxpayers own it. It's our money that funds the bank, and the less money IRBC get back, the more money will have to come from the taxpayers. Quinn and his family aren't bilking Anglo, they're seeking to screw every taxpayer in the country. Including you.

    Those people gave 'their' money to the Quinns. For their own reasons, I want the Quinns to have their day in the courts, all the way, because it looks to me, that that is the only way we are going to find out what really went on in that f**king bank.


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    #577
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Those people gave 'their' money to the Quinns. For their own reasons, I want the Quinns to have their day in the courts, all the way, because it looks to me, that that is the only way we are going to find out what really went on in that f**king bank.

    Sadly they DON'T want to turn up in court it seems - and even when they do, they will not give the right answers to the court so that people can find out whats going on!
    To make matters worse - they even do the direct opposite of what the court tells them to do! They stick a proverbial two-fingered salute to the Irish court - to your and my state in other words!

    If anyone wants answers, don't look to the Quinns to give them all.
    You will be damn lucky if they turn up at all - instead of scampering across a border like cowards and living their in their holes!


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    #578
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Biggins wrote: »
    Sadly they DON'T want to turn up in court it seems - and even when they do, they will not give the right answers to the court so that people can find out whats going on!
    To make matters worse - they even do the direct opposite of what the court tells them to do! They stick a proverbial two-fingered salute to the Irish court - to your and my state in other words!

    If anyone wants answers, don't look to the Quinns to give them all.
    You will be damn lucky if they turn up at all - instead of scampering across a border like cowards and living their in their holes!

    It seems obvious to me that this has been gotten arse about face as usual. We need to know what exactly went on at Anglo, who was involved, and to what level, before we start putting people in jail for what happened subsequently.
    I'd do exactly the same as the Quinns if it was the case that they were taking away what I had built up through many years of undeniably hard work. It's fairly typical of this country that you never heard the idiots downgrading a region when the money was rolling in. The people who are contributing now to the Quinn fund, where able to prosper in their own regions and raised their families because of Quinns hard work, they are probably the biggest losers, in reality. Like me, they want the whole truth before they callously deny him.


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    #579
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 52,016 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Biggins wrote: »
    Sadly they DON'T want to turn up in court it seems - and even when they do, they will not give the right answers to the court so that people can find out whats going on!
    To make matters worse - they even do the direct opposite of what the court tells them to do! They stick a proverbial two-fingered salute to the Irish court - to your and my state in other words!

    If anyone wants answers, don't look to the Quinns to give them all.
    You will be damn lucky if they turn up at all - instead of scampering across a border like cowards and living their in their holes!

    There might be another way too.
    What about if their Board member, Alan Dukes, came out and explained how Anglo got things wrong and what was happening inside this obviously corrupt establishment?
    But I doubt he will as he might incriminate others and maybe himself. It might all be too close to home.
    Now there's me and my silly mind thinking again about conspiracy theories.


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    #580
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It seems obvious to me that this has been gotten arse about face as usual. We need to know what exactly went on at Anglo, who was involved, and to what level, before we start putting people in jail for what happened subsequently.
    I'd do exactly the same as the Quinns if it was the case that they were taking away what I had built up through many years of undeniably hard work. It's fairly typical of this country that you never heard the idiots downgrading a region when the money was rolling in. The people who are contributing now to the Quinn fund, where able to prosper in their own regions and raised their families because of Quinns hard work, they are probably the biggest losers, in reality. Like me, they want the whole truth before they callously deny him.
    tayto lover wrote: »
    There might be another way too.
    What about if their Board member, Alan Dukes, came out and explained how Anglo got things wrong and what was happening inside this obviously corrupt establishment?
    But I doubt he will as he might incriminate others and maybe himself. It might all be too close to home.
    Now there's me and my silly mind thinking again about conspiracy theories.

    There is absolute NO argument that we (or at least investigators) need to find out what went on.
    (If we ever find out to a full extent - thats another question!)
    In the meanwhile, the truth is that part of the reasons why the Anglo ended up the way it did, was because of the action's of the Quinns.
    ...And in the investigations of those involved with the Anglo, the Quinns were found to have on their own, by their own actions, doing things illegally and frankly stupid (although that in itself is not a crime), that too need to be answered for.
    Thus their eventual presence demanded in court for their non-compliance with the later re-vamped bank, trying to clear up the previous mess and recover public financial loss.

    Sadly once again, we are hearing about so called contributors to the Quinn fund.
    What about someone speaking up for the many that the Quinns dumped and left unemployed in their rush to asset strip and shift money/assets across an Irish border so that they could live a life of bliss while those they left behind in their wake, are left to suffer deeply?
    ...But "shush" - the contributors don't wish the public to hear or see about that part - that would be bad PR for them.
    I don't see or hear of any of the contributors to the Quinns, contributing to their victims!
    ...O' and that includes you, I and them for paying for the next decade, for the Quinn's self-created financial mess!


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    #581
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Biggins wrote: »

    Sadly once again, we are hearing about so called contributors to the Quinn fund.
    What about someone speaking up for the many that the Quinns dumped and left unemployed in their rush to asset strip and shift money/assets across an Irish border so that they could live a life of bliss while those they left behind in their wake, are left to suffer deeply?
    ...But "shush" - the contributors don't wish the public to hear or see about that part - that would be pad PR for them.
    I don't see or hear of any of the contributors to the Quinns, contributing to their victims!
    ...O' and that includes you, I and them for paying for the next decade, for the Quinn's self-created financial mess!

    You say that in the face of the fact that many at the rally are the ones who have lost their jobs?
    tayto lover is right, why don't we the Irish public demand the whole truth about what went on and THEN make our judgement?
    There is no doubt that Quinn was instrumental in his own downfall, but we need all the facts.


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    #582
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You say that in the face of the fact that many at the rally are the ones who have lost their jobs?
    You know this for sure? Can you show evidence to back this?
    And if true, did 2% of those they sacked, turn up or did 20%, 40%, 90% turn up?
    Until we see creditable evidence also showing percentages, we have only your word that the ones he's left unemployed, was there!
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    tayto lover is right, why don't we the Irish public demand the whole truth about what went on and THEN make our judgement?
    There is no doubt that Quinn was instrumental in his own downfall, but we need all the facts.

    Two Irish judges have already made long assessed judgements based on documented evidence put before them.
    Evidence brought to them by investigators because the Quinn's were not providing answers.
    If we wait for the Quinns to provide full truthful answers, you will be waiting I suspect for Hell to freeze over first!


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    #583
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Biggins wrote: »
    You know this for sure? Can you show evidence to back this?
    And if true, did 2% of those they sacked, turn up or did 20%, 40%, 90% turn up?
    Until we see creditable evidence also showing percentages, we have only your word that the ones he's left unemployed, was there!

    4000 people turned up in a small village called Ballyconnell, who do you think they were? Personally 5 of my immediate family where employed directly by Quinn group, 3 of them have lost their jobs and support the Quinns and an inquiry into the truth of what went on. I would imagine being on the ground that that feeling is widespread among former employees.


    Two Irish judges have already made long assessed judgements based on documented evidence put before them.
    Evidence brought to them by investigators because the Quinn's were not providing answers.
    If we wait for the Quinns to provide full truthful answers, you will be waiting I suspect for Hell to freeze over first!

    Yes, but do we know the full story?


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    #584
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    4000 people turned up in a small village called Ballyconnell, who do you think they were?

    That does NOT prove in any way, shape or form that a few or many of those he dumped, turned up there to support him!

    Some that did turn up obviously do support him (in stupidity I feel), some might have turned up to see the creep and some might have turned up to see who else would also turn up!

    Your free to disagree.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Yes, but do we know the full story?
    No - and the Quinns sure as hell are not helping or telling!


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    #585
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    tayto lover wrote: »
    There might be another way too.
    What about if their Board member, Alan Dukes, came out and explained how Anglo got things wrong and what was happening inside this obviously corrupt establishment?
    But I doubt he will as he might incriminate others and maybe himself. It might all be too close to home.
    Now there's me and my silly mind thinking again about conspiracy theories.

    As I said before, get drumm back here, if there is nothing to hide, to tell us the story and then he can go back to the US the very next day. Problem solved.


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    #586
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Biggins wrote: »
    That does NOT prove in any way, shape or form that a few or many of those he dumped, turned up there to support him!

    Some that did turn up obviously do support him (in stupidity I feel), some might have turned up to see the creep and some might have turned up to see who else would also turn up!

    Your free to disagree.

    I do disagree. I know the area and a lot of those concerned.


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    #587
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I do disagree. I know the area and a lot of those concerned.

    Fair enough.

    Myself, if a person sacked me just so that he would then send money out of the country and make me be victimised twice-over (once for the sacking and secondly for having to pay for over a decade in contributions in tax, to fill the financial mess he made), I sure as hell would not be turning up to support him.

    It would be COMPLETELY stupid of me.

    I do not believe for one second that in any way, the vast bulk of people (or even a third) there at the rally, were those that he sacked and showing up to support him.

    Its my right to be stupid and wrong and think that.
    (I'm not saying you have said otherwise)


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    #588
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Biggins wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    Myself, if a person sacked me just so that he would then send money out of the country and make me be victimised twice-over (once for the sacking and secondly for having to pay for over a decade in contributions in tax, to fill the financial mess he made), I sure as hell would not be turning up to support him.

    It would be COMPLETELY stupid of me.

    I do not believe for one second that in any way, the vast bulk of people (or even a third) there at the rally, were those that he sacked and showing up to support him.

    Its my right to be stupid and wrong and think that.
    (I'm not saying you have said otherwise)

    People lost their jobs because of the events, not because S. Quinn sacked them. Events that we don't know the full facts about but are making judgements on.


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    #589
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    People lost their jobs because of the events, not because S. Quinn sacked them. Events that we don't know the full facts about but are making judgements on.

    Its a he said/she said situation.

    He took out loans via a clear and unarguable method (he himself admitted this was wrong later) which was against the law, state, banking and company law.

    Due to this and its known outcome, he created the loss of many, many jobs.
    Werther he walked up to them and told them "Your sacked" or as its clear to the sightful, that he created their eventual unemployment directly, is not a matter for debate - his actions and their effects are on record.

    No one held a gun to his head to go to the Anglo and make him say "I want to buy into it".
    No one held a gun to his head to make him asset strip and move money across our border, trying to get it out of the reach of the state which is now trying to recuperate the millions he stupidly and illegally handled and lost its seems.


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    #590
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Biggins wrote: »
    Its a he said/she said situation.

    Exactly, which is why we need the full facts.


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    #591
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Exactly, which is why we need the full facts.

    Well here is some facts:
    Quinn was building his stake (for Anglo) through contracts for difference (CFD), high-risk investment products with which the investor gambles on the future price of the shares...

    ...His gamble on the share price going up backfired within months. On June 7, 2007, Anglo’s shares peaked at €17.53. Three months later, the share price started falling and it never recovered.

    The Quinn family continued to buy up shares, and ended up owning a quarter of what was than Ireland’s third biggest bank and nobody knew about it. Not even Anglo. According to reports last year, Quinn only revealed the full extent of his massive shareholding to FitzPatrick and Drumm in late 2007, seeking assurances that the share price would stabilise.
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/industry-captains-illfated-voyage-on-the-sinking-ship-2124899.html

    Long story short, it didn't.
    Because of their wrong and as it turned out illegal loans antics - they eventually created a massive situation where people had to be sacked.
    Not only that but it appears they in order to try and save some money for themselves, they further transferred their remaining capital/assets/money to outside Ireland so that they could live grand while those they left in their mess, could struggle!
    Lest we had forgotten about the billionaire whose greedy share-buying contributed to its collapse, along came the regulator to remind us who he was. In the current climate, with calls for bankers, developers and speculators to be pursued for every cent, Quinn last week emerged as another potential pariah. Denis O’Brien, the telecoms billionaire who declared himself a friend of FitzPatrick's, claimed last year that: “Anglo Irish would still be a plc if it wasn’t for Sean Quinn.”


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    #592
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Biggins wrote: »
    Well here is some facts:


    Exactly...SOME of the facts.


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    #593
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Exactly...SOME of the facts.

    Well the ones that we know already that come from a number of courtrooms, judges and the even then opposite further illegal actions of the Quinn's with their defiance, sure shows them as to the low calibre that they clearly are.

    ...And why fools should support them on those later actions alone - never mind the previous ones, is just sheer conveniently partial blindness and stupidity!
    I'm not on my own in coming to this assessment.


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    #594
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Biggins wrote: »
    Well the ones that we know already that come from a number of courtrooms, judges and the even then opposite further illegal actions of the Quinn's with their defiance, sure shows them as to the low calibre that they clearly are.

    ...And why fools should support them on those later actions alone - never mind the previous ones, is just sheer conveniently partial blindness and stupidity!
    I'm not on my own in coming to this assessment.

    What counts for the people on that support rally is the previous actions of this man and company over 40 odd years. He created huge employment and wealth and didn't live an ostentatious lifestyle. He had no reputation (absolutely none, from what I can see) of being a cheat or somebody who abused his position. In fact he was the go to man for sponsorship or support for a myriad of causes and projects. That he suddenly turned cheat is a bit hard to swallow for them. They are remaining loyal out of a sense of gratefulness and until they get the 'full' facts, they will not turn the knife.
    The country need the facts, all of them. Only fools will make judgements without them.


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    #595
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    What counts for the people on that support rally is the previous actions of this man and company over 40 odd years. He created huge employment and wealth and didn't live an ostentatious lifestyle. He had no reputation (absolutely none, from what I can see) of being a cheat or somebody who abused his position. In fact he was the go to man for sponsorship or support for a myriad of causes and projects. That he suddenly turned cheat is a bit hard to swallow for them. They are remaining loyal out of a sense of gratefulness and until they get the 'full' facts, they will not turn the knife.
    The country need the facts, all of them. Only fools will make judgements without them.

    He BROKE the law!
    Repeatedly and in no small way.

    Anyone could use the reason "I created jobs" if they did.
    That is NO excuse for letting them off with breaking the law (and he did) or making out that they are oddly less accountable for those laws they broke versus people that didn't create jobs.

    Only fools will still support clear law breakers who frankly by the action of "Screw you, screw the courts of Ireland, screw the state! I'm outa here!".
    Its this type of stupid mentality that allows the likes of Haughty, Aherns, and co to not only survive but continue to screw the rest of us - and leave us paying for it too!


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    #596
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Biggins wrote: »
    He BROKE the law!
    Repeatedly and in no small way.

    Anyone could use the reason "I created jobs" if they did.
    That is NO excuse for letting them off with breaking the law (and he did) or making out that they are oddly less accountable for those laws they broke versus people that didn't create jobs.

    Only fools will still support clear law breakers who frankly by the action of "Screw you, screw the courts of Ireland, screw the state! I'm outa here!".
    Its this type of stupid mentality that allows the likes of Haughty, Aherns, and co to not only survive but continue to screw the rest of us - and leave us paying for it too!

    And tell me this, has the same price been extracted for everybody who broke laws in relation to Anglo?
    The price Quinn was made to pay seems unreasonable to these people. If he broke the law in relation to his dealings with Anglo, charge him and let him defend himself.
    What happened as a result of the 'events' is not in dispute, Quinn broke the law after the events, but if I thought that others where culpable in the 'events' and where walking free, I would do the exact same thing... 'screw you and your corrupt state' and your warped sense of justice.
    Expose the FULL facts and put ALL the culprits behind bars. Then we can say justice has been served.


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    #597
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    And tell me this, has the same price been extracted for everybody who broke laws in relation to Anglo?

    Frankly - and this is where a minority of people seem to get stupid around - IT DON'T MATTER.

    HE BROKE THE LAW!

    If one or one hundred also broke the law - he is still accountable for his actions - and he broke the law!

    O' but no, others (SO FAR) might have not been held accountable so lets espouse he's being treated unfairly so and he should get off then - what utter stupidity!
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The price Quinn was made to pay seems unreasonable to these people. If he broke the law in relation to his dealings with Anglo, charge him and let him defend himself.
    ...And in trying to do that - he have further broke the law to try and stop that happening!
    What part of that do you not understand?
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Expose the FULL facts and put ALL the culprits behind bars. Then we can say justice has been served.

    We do not disagree here - but he WILL NOT give the full facts or co-operate!
    Thus his ass is in court along with his sons who is in a tw-fingered salute to the state, is doing the exact same!

    And people defend this?

    Utter stupidity!


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    #598
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Biggins wrote: »
    Well here is some facts:


    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/industry-captains-illfated-voyage-on-the-sinking-ship-2124899.html

    Long story short, it didn't.
    Because of their wrong and as it turned out illegal loans antics - they eventually created a massive situation where people had to be sacked.
    Not only that but it appears they in order to try and save some money for themselves, they further transferred their remaining capital/assets/money to outside Ireland so that they could live grand while those they left in their mess, could struggle!

    Because of whose wrong and illegal loan antics?


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    #599
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    darkhorse wrote: »
    Because of whose wrong and illegal loan antics?

    For me, and I daresay the people on the support march, that is the reasonable doubt here.
    What was going on in Anglo, who knew and who condoned it.


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    #600
    darkhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Biggins wrote: »
    Its a he said/she said situation.
    No one held a gun to his head to go to the Anglo and make him say "I want to buy into it".

    There is no doubt in anybody's mind that Sean Quinn got very greedy to the extent that his greed clouded his judgement. However, it can be equally said that no one held a gun to the head of whoever was in charge of the loan dept. of Anglo, to loan such a massive amount to one debtor
    In total the Quinn family is estimated to have €2.8 billion of loans from Anglo Irish Bank and the QUINN group has an additional €1.2 billion of loans.
    I sometimes wonder about the person who loaned all that money and does he still retain his commision. Nice little earner if he does.


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    #601
    hardCopy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    The only fact that matters is that the Quinn's disobeyed a court order, everything else is academic.

    It's no different to skipping bail because you claim you're innocent.

    I hope the source of these donations is investigated because it seems highly dubious that all the fine upstanding gobsh1tes that spoke in Ballyconnell suddenly wish to remain anonymous in their support.


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