Rally for The Quinn-were you there?

Biggins

darkhorse wrote: »

Because of whose wrong and illegal loan antics?

One of the activities that he himself did was when he took a completely mad gamble, betting the house (Anglo) on Anglo's share price with money that he had actually just applied and gotten a loan for ...from Anglo!

Completely illegal!
...And thats one instance of his defiance to the state and its laws.

And on this alone he eventually had to admit, when the evidence was shown in court, that he was wrong!

I further suggest a read of this: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0731/1224321157051.html

One section of it:

Support for shameless Quinn is misplaced

TAKE ALL the money raised this year by the cuts in child benefit. And from cutting the school clothing and footwear allowance. And all the cuts to jobseekers’ benefit, rent supplement and fuel allowances for the elderly.

Throw in the restriction of one-parent family allowance to children under seven. Pile on all the cuts in back-to-education allowances and community employment schemes. Take all of that money from the pockets of the poorest people in Ireland this year and you still haven’t reached the amount Seán Quinn agrees he owes the Irish taxpayer.

This is nothing to do with the €2.3 billion he borrowed from Anglo Irish Bank to buy its shares. This is the €455 million he borrowed to buy property – using that property as security. In all the noise and distraction, this much is undisputed: Quinn borrowed the money and put up the property assets as collateral. The State, however idiotically, took over that loan. Since Quinn can’t pay it back, the Irish people now own those properties.

There is something else that is not in dispute: that Quinn is openly, flagrantly and quite proudly trying to hang on to this money that belongs to us. As he said on Sunday, he took a “very conscious decision” to do “everything in our power to take as many assets as we could”. The basic intention is very simple – to transfer assets from the Irish people to the Quinn family.

Thus, for example, the status of Karen Woods, a part-time receptionist with Joe Duffy Motors in north Dublin, as recipient of one of the largest public salaries in Ireland. The lucky Karen, then the girlfriend (now the wife) of Seán Quinn jnr, was paid €320,297 after tax (the equivalent of at least €400,000) last year by a Russian company whose assets belong entirely to the Irish people.

This is more than twice what the Taoiseach is paid, with the added refinement that there is no evidence of what work Woods does in return for this salary. Every cent she got, and every euro of the €455 million, is money kept from a State that is, for example, struggling to provide services for young people with intellectual disabilities.

At the same time, but completely separately, every Irish person or business who takes out home, motor or commercial insurance is having to pay the price, quite literally, for Seán Quinn’s mismanagement of his insurance business.

For at least the next 12 years, every time any of us takes out insurance, we will have to pay an extra 2 per cent to recoup the approximately €1.1 billion Quinn lost in his gamble on Quinn Insurance. Thus, even when we leave aside entirely the €2.3 billion Anglo loan, Quinn’s actions are siphoning €1.5 billion from Irish taxpayers, consumers and businesses.

darkhorse

Biggins wrote: »

He BROKE the law!
Repeatedly and in no small way.

Agreed, and he is going through the courts. Unlike a certain TD, who is still in the dail. Now, if underdeclaring VAT is not against the law, I apologize for my comment.

[/QUOTE]
Only fools will still support clear law breakers who frankly by the action of "Screw you, screw the courts of Ireland, screw the state! I'm outa here!".
Its this type of stupid mentality that allows the likes of Haughty, Aherns, and co to not only survive but continue to screw the rest of us - and leave us paying for it too![/QUOTE]

By the way, whats your take on the following---
FG: Not another cent for Anglo

Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 02:14 PM


Fine Gael has said that if it elected to Government, it won't put "another cent" of taxpayers' money into Anglo Irish Bank.

Biggins

darkhorse wrote: »

Agreed, and he is going through the courts. Unlike a certain TD, who is still in the dail. Now, if underdeclaring VAT is not against the law, I apologize for my comment.

Only fools will still support clear law breakers who frankly by the action of "Screw you, screw the courts of Ireland, screw the state! I'm outa here!".
Its this type of stupid mentality that allows the likes of Haughty, Aherns, and co to not only survive but continue to screw the rest of us - and leave us paying for it too!

By the way, whats your take on the following---
FG: Not another cent for Anglo

Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 02:14 PM

Fine Gael has said that if it elected to Government, it won't put "another cent" of taxpayers' money into Anglo Irish Bank.

I think most here know my feelings about Ahern,
Utter waster is putting it mildly.

As for the present government?

* This is a government that has lied about Household charges.

* This is a government that has lied about water or utility charges.

* This is a government that has lied about reducing the number of TD's.

* This is a government that has lied about creating 100,000 new jobs.

* This is a government that has lied about abolishing the Seanad.

* This is a government that ok's country councils to pick on kids for the actions/inactions of their parents.

* This is a government that refuses to see Cardinal Brady arrested for a crime that another did in America (Monsignor William Lynn got three to six years in prison by a judge who said he “enabled monsters in clerical garb … to destroy the souls of children.” Cardinal Brady did EXACTLY the same over ten+ years.

* This is a government in which cronyism & nepotism still continues!

* This is a government that is still lining its own financial pockets.

* This is a government that is cow-towing to Germany and Merkel.

* This is a government that is (or will be) forcing people to pay for services they NEVER use!

* This a government which says it will cut 75 million in allowances which are outdated, a hangover from another era.
Instead in a massive u-turn, they say now this week they are only cutting 3.5 million. No wonder the unions are liking this!

Welcome to The Irish Labour Party and Fine Gael.
The biggest bunch of contemptible, liars, u-turn artists and utter crooks since the days of Fianna Fail - and are beating the previous at their own rackets and lies!

No doubt there will be those that disagree with all or some above.
However thats how I and many feel about our present lot.
I post the above just to answer your question. Not to side-track the thread.

darkhorse

Biggins wrote: »

One of the activities that he himself did was when he took a completely mad gamble, betting the house (Anglo) on Anglo's share price with money that he had actually just applied and gotten a loan for ...from Anglo!



I further suggest a read of this: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0731/1224321157051.html

One section of it:

You hit the nail on the head there. They did'nt have to give him the loan. But then again, maybe there was too big an incentive.

You know, sometimes after you read a story, you should take a look at some of the comments. Some of them are actually better that the story itself. I extracted one comment for you to read. I could'nt have put this better myself:

HARRYMARKOPOLOS

Itsstrange how 850 NAMA ''developers'' racked up €71 billion, that one way oranother we are going to pay back for them.
Some of them individually owe just as much as Quinn to Irish banks alone andsimilar amounts to non Irish banks.
Unlike Quinn who owned income producing multi-generational, strong businessesthat employed 7000 people, these ''developers'' owned valueless, none incomeproducing fields and half finished shoddy building sites.
Please note: these builders found it hard to pay anyone in the good times apartfrom the media who advertised their overpriced, badly built, shoeboxproperties.

So what did our fine ''leaders'' and ''protectors'' decide to do?
(1) Shut Quinn down, try to disgrace him and his family, take everything fromhim, try to never allow him to create another job in the country and try tojail him and his family.
and (2)
Give the ''developers'' €100's of thousands a year in salaries, allow them tokeep their expensive cars, houses and other toys, allow them to ''operate'' theircompanies and allow them media immunity.

Not to mention our government allowing the ''Financial Regulator'' who presidedover this mess total media immunity and a huge pension.

Can someone tell me why the emphasis is on Quinn for a couple of billion thathe could, would, wanted to and guaranteed us to pay back, (even though it ishighly questionable that he actually owed it in the first place).
Evidently the man has more ability than all of these 850 cowboys put together(and all of our fine ''leaders'' and ''protectors'' if it goes to that).

I really rather this version than any journalist and my compliments to the poster. Ya wanna know something else that sticks in my mind:
FG: Not another cent for Anglo

Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 02:14 PM

hardCopy

Concerned Irish Businesses are on Newstalk now

Am Chile

The news said around 5000 people attended a march supporting Sean Quinn and his family for a second time this year taking place yesterday- I'm Flabbergasted!! Is it any wonder we are being walked all over by the government, the EU, the IMF, the banks. The people who attended that march has plumbed new depths in bowing down to the powerful elite who are screwing all the rest of us. God help us is all I can say.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ballyconnell-rally-quinn-family-635338-Oct2012/

MadsL

Contemptable.

phoenix999

Yes they generated employment four thousands in that area. But the state is now on the tabs for billions with Quinn insurance. We will be paying for it on car insurance policies for years up come. And to have the brass neck to declare they are innocent after that Ukraine video appeared. They have lost touch with reality as have the sheep that went to the rally.

handlemaster

its very easy to say Sean Quinn created lots of jobs. But who paid for those jobs but the Irish people. His businesses and no one elses borrowed the money and its the people of Ireland that is and will be paying for it for a long time. The Quinns must have a great laugh at the protesters when they go home. How gulliable they are.They are forgetting the RTE interview where it was stated all debts would be repaid in full. I actually don't know what the protesters want ? is it debt forgiveness ? if it is that should be applied to all. If its justice well let the courts decide. The evidence is there and has been presented for all to see. Is is the outcome of the court proceedings so far thats the problem ? If it is, is it the court that is in some way corrupt !!! If thats what they are saying corrupt in what way ? where's the evidence. Theres 400million plus in property loans that are not in dispute by the Quinns yet they still don't want to pay. Why ? If Joe mc Doogle in ballymacwackey had an outstanding loan whould the Quinns be protesting for him ? I noted some interviews with protesters on the radio yesterday and they all repeated Quinn family quotas as their own... e.g. how the family had been wronged,banks out to get them, all the jobs that were created etc. I think its an interesting social reflection would be a good project for a social studies student.

donalg1

I for one honestly cant understand what they are protesting about, it beggars belief tbh.

martingriff

Biggins wrote: »

I think most here know my feelings about Ahern,
Utter waster is putting it mildly.

As for the present government?

* This is a government that has lied about Household charges.

Pretty sure it was in the program for goverment and Fina Gael manifesto. (not sure please prove me wrong)

* This is a government that has lied about water or utility charges.

Pretty sure it was in the program for goverment and Fina Gael manifesto. (not sure please prove me wrong)

* This is a government that has lied about reducing the number of TD's.

Do not know whats they said but unfortunatly would have to have a referendum to reduce it by the 8 it will be due to constitution (may have a few other battles first that are larger.)

* This is a government that has lied about creating 100,000 new jobs.

Agreed here

* This is a government that has lied about abolishing the Seanad.

Need a referendum first which I am sure is going to happen next year. (Sure they have more important things at the moment though)

* This is a government that ok's country councils to pick on kids for the actions/inactions of their parents.

* This is a government that refuses to see Cardinal Brady arrested for a crime that another did in America (Monsignor William Lynn got three to six years in prison by a judge who said he “enabled monsters in clerical garb … to destroy the souls of children.” Cardinal Brady did EXACTLY the same over ten+ years.

* This is a government in which cronyism & nepotism still continues!

Agreed

* This is a government that is still lining its own financial pockets.

Agreed

* This is a government that is cow-towing to Germany and Merkel.

* This is a government that is (or will be) forcing people to pay for services they NEVER use!

Happens all the time nothing new for this goverment or any goverment

* This a government which says it will cut 75 million in allowances which are outdated, a hangover from another era.
Instead in a massive u-turn, they say now this week they are only cutting 3.5 million. No wonder the unions are liking this!

Agree here was a stupid thing to say untill they new what was happening.

Welcome to The Irish Labour Party and Fine Gael.
The biggest bunch of contemptible, liars, u-turn artists and utter crooks since the days of Fianna Fail - and are beating the previous at their own rackets and lies!

No doubt there will be those that disagree with all or some above.
However thats how I and many feel about our present lot.
I post the above just to answer your question. Not to side-track the thread.

Not an apologist for this goverment in any small ways but see my answers above in bold

MagicSean

Am Chile wrote: »

The news said around 5000 people attended a march supporting Sean Quinn and his family for a second time this year taking place yesterday- I'm Flabbergasted!! Is it any wonder we are being walked all over by the government, the EU, the IMF, the banks. The people who attended that march has plumbed new depths in bowing down to the powerful elite who are screwing all the rest of us. God help us is all I can say.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ballyconnell-rally-quinn-family-635338-Oct2012/

Just another moron march. Locals who made a net gain out of Quinns empire. It's the rest of us who are paying for his reckless, devious incompetence.

Brain Stroking

handlemaster wrote: »

its very easy to say Sean Quinn created lots of jobs. But who paid for those jobs but the Irish people. His businesses and no one elses borrowed the money and its the people of Ireland that is and will be paying for it for a long time. The Quinns must have a great laugh at the protesters when they go home. How gulliable they are.They are forgetting the RTE interview where it was stated all debts would be repaid in full. I actually don't know what the protesters want ? is it debt forgiveness ? if it is that should be applied to all. If its justice well let the courts decide. The evidence is there and has been presented for all to see. Is is the outcome of the court proceedings so far thats the problem ? If it is, is it the court that is in some way corrupt !!! If thats what they are saying corrupt in what way ? where's the evidence. Theres 400million plus in property loans that are not in dispute by the Quinns yet they still don't want to pay. Why ? If Joe mc Doogle in ballymacwackey had an outstanding loan whould the Quinns be protesting for him ? I noted some interviews with protesters on the radio yesterday and tell all repeated Quinn family quotas as their own... e.g. how the family had been wronged,banks out to get them, all the jobs that were created etc. I think its an interesting social reflection would be a good project for a social studies student.

It is an unbelievably neat portrait of where we are as a society in Ireland post-tiger. Neat but not flattering.

Show Time

What a bunch of muppets.

joseph brand

This march of the greedy and the mentally lazy reminds me of a quote from Scott Adams:

“You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public.”

Ciara Quinn insisted the family would fight Anglo in the courts and would win. "Some day our war with Anglo with be over, and make no mistake about it for this is a war.

Pitchfork, oil and rag sales have increased lately in Ballyconnell. Just the Quinns doing their bit for local business I suppose.

"Leave Sean Quinn alone!"

bbam

MagicSean wrote: »

Just another moron march. Locals who made a net gain out of Quinns empire. It's the rest of us who are paying for his reckless, devious incompetence.

Being from Cavan myself I'll start by saying I have no support for Quinn and his cronies, they all should be locked up..

However wo things strike me..

There is a huge ammount of pressure being applied to locals to turn up, people are being intimidated into being seen at these marches..

From listening to the radio this is now becoming a mecca for anyone who has a beef with the banks about anything, people are traveling from round the country as a show of support, "to stick it to the banks".

Brain Stroking

bbam wrote: »

Being from Cavan myself I'll start by saying I have no support for Quinn and his cronies, they all should be locked up..

However wo things strike me..

There is a huge ammount of pressure being applied to locals to turn up, people are being intimidated into being seen at these marches..

From listening to the radio this is now becoming a mecca for anyone who has a beef with the banks about anything, people are traveling from round the country as a show of support, "to stick it to the banks".

It actually makes me angry. People talk about the Banks and the corruption and how we were so naive before the recession and then go support Quinn?

Also, his daughter saying (and i'm paraphrasing) "We want to get back out there and start creating jobs again". Yeah love, whatever.

Cassidy28

I heard on one of the news channels on the radio this morning that the gardai think there may have been closer to ten thousand in support of the quinns yesterday evening in ballyconnell.

From what i hear there where people from north south east west people from wexford, kerry etc, like it or lump it the support seems to be growing in favour of the quinns.

Larbre34

The sheep mentality observable in the Quinnville catchment is truely remarkable in a modern society, and probably not seen in this land since the growth of the workers movement in the earlier 20th century, and then you were dealing with an illiterate and ignorant mass manual labour force.

I have no problem with personal friends of the Quinn's supporting them in a difficult situation, thats what good friends are for, but to rabble rouse and twist the reality of what theyre preaching is disgraceful

The Quinn empire can be regarded as the saviour of an employment blackspot and a great investment in local enterprise. However, for the ordinary working people who benefitted from it not to recognise that all the profit made off their backs was risked and toyed with along with their lives and futures in what will be unwound as a breathtaking conspiracy and conivance between Anglo and the directors at Quinn to cover their own arses and protect as much cash for themselves as possible until the storm passed.

Whatever thousand number of people attended last night, by the time the Courts complete their examination of the current contempt and wider corporate violations, I suspect the next march might be considerably smaller when the detailed verdict is handed down

Cassidy28

There seems to have been less Gaa crowd at the march, but you can be sure the quinns still have the support of the gaa

Brain Stroking

Cassidy28 wrote: »

There seems to have been less Gaa crowd at the march, but you can be sure the quinns still have the support of the gaa

Deciding the GAA is with you because Mickey Harte and a few others show up isnt correct. I am in the GAA and i am most definitely not with the Quinns.

handlemaster

The Quinns must have a PR company employed in the back ground or at least taking advise on the PR side. This campaign has been thought out. If you look at what is been done. The facts of the case are not been discussed its the US against them. And you are one of us ( except Quinns in this case have millions and the flag bearers are mere studges).If you divide the people you will deflect from the issue at hand and ultimately conker classic PR stunt.

Voodoo_rasher

sympathy for someone who lost a massive financial spread-bet, Anglo-Irish

effectively acting the 'bookmaker'. Funny how nobody calls SQ's gamble for

what it was..for a nation which likes a 'flutter. The sheep don't understand the operating principle of a spreadbet, do they??

JB quotes " “You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public.” That nails it.

Brain Stroking

handlemaster wrote: »

The Quinns must have a PR company employed in the back ground or at least taking advise on the PR side. This campaign has been thought out. If you look at what is been done. The facts of the case are not been discussed its the US against them. And you are one of us ( except Quinns in this case have millions and the flag bearers are mere studges).If you divide the people you will deflect from the issue at hand and ultimately conker classic PR stunt.

Fortunately i cannot see the judiciary being swayed by any of that. The Quinns are bang to rights on this and they will get no sympathy from the courts.

Volvic12

I for one was not at the march and would have no interest in going to it either.

However, the facts remain. Anglo bosses did commit fraud effectively and the Quinns were lied to. Yep, they took a stupid gamble BUT it was fraud on Anglo's part.
If this case see's the courts then I believe the Quinn's will win.

MagicSean

Cassidy28 wrote: »

I heard on one of the news channels on the radio this morning that the gardai think there may have been closer to ten thousand in support of the quinns yesterday evening in ballyconnell.

From what i hear there where people from north south east west people from wexford, kerry etc, like it or lump it the support seems to be growing in favour of the quinns.

I reckon people are just going for the buzz. A bit of a piss up. Media probably made up a big portion as well as locals going for a look.

Volvic12 wrote: »

I for one was not at the march and would have no interest in going to it either.

However, the facts remain. Anglo bosses did commit fraud effectively and the Quinns were lied to. Yep, they took a stupid gamble BUT it was fraud on Anglo's part.
If this case see's the courts then I believe the Quinn's will win.

Anglos action is completely irrelevent to what Quinn did. He bet money that wasn't his to bet. He lost it. He tried to hide it so he wouldn't have to pay up his debts, going against a court ruling. The fact that the horse he bet on was lame doesn't even register as an excuse. It wasn't his money to bet with. Now the rest of us are left cleaning up his debts.

hardCopy

Cassidy28 wrote: »

I heard on one of the news channels on the radio this morning that the gardai think there may have been closer to ten thousand in support of the quinns yesterday evening in ballyconnell.

From what i hear there where people from north south east west people from wexford, kerry etc, like it or lump it the support seems to be growing in favour of the quinns.

There are idiots everywhere

Volvic12

MagicSean wrote: »

Anglos action is completely irrelevent to what Quinn did. He bet money that wasn't his to bet. He lost it. He tried to hide it so he wouldn't have to pay up his debts, going against a court ruling. The fact that the horse he bet on was lame doesn't even register as an excuse. It wasn't his money to bet with. Now the rest of us are left cleaning up his debts.

All of what you said is true and accurate however it's not like saying the horse is lame. It would be more like me putting €100 on a horse with Paddy Power but they have already fixed the race and know you won't win. To be honest, it isn't the best analogy but you might get where I'm coming from. It was fraud.

It may not have been his money but the money was placed nonetheless and Fraud occurred so he is entitled to it back. Of course he tried to hide his assets. It's alot easier to fight to hold on to assets then to try and fight to get them back - they could already be gone!

Brain Stroking

Volvic12 wrote: »

All of what you said is true and accurate however it's not like saying the horse is lame. It would be more like me putting €100 on a horse with Paddy Power but they have already fixed the race and know you won't win. To be honest, it isn't the best analogy but you might get where I'm coming from. It was fraud.

It may not have been his money but the money was placed nonetheless and Fraud occurred so he is entitled to it back. Of course he tried to hide his assets. It's alot easier to fight to hold on to assets then to try and fight to get them back - they could already be gone!

If it wasnt his money how in the name of christ can you come to the opinion that he should get it back?

You dont seem to understand that Anglo's position in this is irrelevant in terms of the criminal case against Quinn. He committed a criminal offence knowingly. There aint any way out of it. It is no defence to say that your partner was a bigger crook than you.

As for the defence of hiding assets, you do know asset stripping is illegal dont you?

twilight_singer

Took this from todays Mirror. Banner says it all.