Money talks in Ireland

Duggy747

Duggy747 wrote: »

6 months for this? Why did the judge even bother saying 6 years?

That is infuriating, the length of time it takes for cases like these to get to court (if they even do) and how careful the Gardaì have to be to ensure the case is strong enough to be brought before a judge only for him to utterly dismiss it like this in such a pathetic way.

It's a like game, every week I come across a sentencing that's more daft than the last.

Not only that, but he pleaded 'not guilty' and attempted to absolve himself from all responsibility of the crime until the end.

gypsy_rose

darragh o meara wrote: »

Seen as its AH if it were myself or a family member I know what id do with with that 75k, I'd hire a hitman and be done with this scum the minute he leaves prison.

Was just about to post this

Duggy747

The scumbag was caught in the act and would have gone further had the woman not thumped him, screamed and a bypasser saw him.

But yet, the judge saw it fit to give him a lenient sentence? Bullshìt.

I'll be fully expecting the Boycott Mauritius crowd on Facebook to be on top of this...................*cough*

Sea Filly

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, I was going to post that.

It would seem that provided you have enough money, you can buy your way out of being properly punished for serious crimes.

The money is to compensate the victim, the jail time is to punish the offender. The two should be treated as separate items and one should have no bearing on the other.

Six months for a violent sexual assault, which would have been worse except that it was stopped. Unbelievable.

Agreed. But it's heartening to know he will always have it on his record.

Poor woman, anyway.

Capt'n Midnight

kr7 wrote: »

Maybe the Romans were right.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

That wasn't the Romans

It came from much older laws - Code of Hammurabi -which in it's day was designed to stop the escalation spiral of revenge.

But the even older Code of Ur-Nammu from 4,000 years ago listed fines instead. ( Though given the social norms of the day adultery and rape carried the death penalty . )


He can still appeal the fine.

It would be interesting to see if the DPP appeals the sentence.

Capt'n Midnight

JustAThought wrote: »

Does anyone know the statistics of raped women in Ireland ?

How does this compare to convictions?

Look up the stats from the Rape Crisis Centre, then take into account that lots of people won't go there and it's a lot less than 1%

[update - statistics]

http://www.drcc.ie/2011/07/launch-of-annual-statistics-2010/

Of the 267 cases where the reporting status was known, 81 cases were reported to the Gardai, a reporting rate of 30.34%.
44.06 % of total rape and sexual assault cases were reported.
14.52 % of the total childhood sexual abuse cases were reported
Of the 81 cases reported to the Gardai, 5 cases (6.17%) were tried, resulting in 4 convictions or guilty pleas, and 1 acquittal.

4 convictions ( 1.4% ) in 2009 out of the 289 who contacted the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre. Not every victim will contact the Centre so that 1.4% is on the hight side.

Part of this is because the DPP is reluctant to prosecute unless there a conviction is very likely.

Ray Palmer

kr7 wrote: »

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

So you hope he is raped? You're right, this place is getting worse by the day

Maybe the Romans were right.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

And what would that have to do with the Romans? It's from the bible.

Anyway the suggestion that repeated rape over a long period of time to anybody is justice is disgusting.

It gets trotted out all the time. I really wonder the mentality that suggests this as equal punishment. This man didn't rape anybody either.

I also don't think one act makes people complete demons either. The suggestions here are that any sexual crime means the person is likely to commit all ranging from pedophilia to beastiality.

Yes sentence is too short.

IvySlayer

AnonoBoy wrote: »

The medication defence is laughable. I hope to f*ck the judge didn't factor that in when sentencing.

The jury rejected it so the judge can't factor it in.

SocSocPol

JustAThought wrote: »

No doubt Jack the Rippers family thought well of him too. Everyone is innocent untilthey are convicted of rape/sexual assault.

Stalking a young woman on her way up the street whereshe lives, attacking her, wrestling her to the ground, ripping her clothes off while trying to rape her . Hardly the signs of a man of good character.
Had she not managed to ring the police who have a station literally just up the road, or had a witness not seen what was happening and run the rapist off God knows what else could have happened.

Shocking & disgusting.

And thus from a man who brokers jets for a living & apparently has five companies listed at his home address alone .

Bring in Megans law ; so we can seewho the rapists & sexual predators & pedophiles are, what they've done and where they live.

This country is rotten to the core . We need to know who these monsters are & where they are living so we can protect ourselves from their predatory minds.

What about the three pedophile brothers convicted the other day ; would you be letting your children over to say hello & get a push on a swing if you knew what they were.

Sickening.

Bring in Megans law
To what end?
Figures available from the Rape Crisis Network show that if a child is going to be sexually abused , in 89% of cases it will be by a family member or close family friend, and in almost the same percentage of cases any rape and sexual assaults are carried out by persons with no criminal record at all.
Megans law does nothing good for any society, it merely gives the tabloids and those of the vigilante mob mentality an excuse to raise hysteria around child safety.

Fuinseog

the two main broadsheets have reported the case but the comment section has ignored it.journos do not feel the need to proclaim moral outrage here. this case though shocking has failed to create any ripples and will be forgotten about next week.

SocSocPol

Fuinseog wrote: »

the two main broadsheets have reported the case but the comment section has ignored it.journos do not feel the need to proclaim moral outrage here. this case though shocking has failed to create any ripples and will be forgotten about next week.

Sad but true.
Wonder if the victim had been a Judges daughter or a politicians daughter what would have happened?

Fuinseog

Fuinseog wrote: »

the two main broadsheets have reported the case but the comment section has ignored it.journos do not feel the need to proclaim moral outrage here. this case though shocking has failed to create any ripples and will be forgotten about next week.

As far a I remember there was a noticeable delay in naming the suspect too. Connections at work?

NinjaK

yeah well the Irish people are to blame, we created this unequal society, we vote in dickheads like Fine Gael and Fine Fail.

Duggys Housemate

I think this is a class - as in the class you were born into - rather than a wealth issue.

Sea Filly

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

I think this is a class - as in the class you were born into - rather than a wealth issue.

What class is he? Genuine q.

humanji

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

As far a I remember there was a noticeable delay in naming the suspect too. Connections at work?

Surely a suspect should never be named unless found guilty?

Our man in Havana

In sexual assault/rape cases the suspect cannot be named until he has been found guilty.

SocSocPol

Our man in Havana wrote: »

In sexual assault/rape cases the suspect cannot be named until he has been found guilty.

Wrong again, Lyons was named before the Trial, he went to court to ty to prevent it but failed, His idedntity was reported throughout the trial. Link provided:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1018/lyonsa.html

Johnny Bitte

Can't say I would be able to contain myself if the victim was related to me.

****er will prob get minimum security prison too.

No punishment at all.

Fuinseog

The Herald reported how the father drove down to the house and started banging on the gates until dragged away by guards.

I am surprised the residents association do not picket the gaff. having a rapist as a neighbour is hardly good for maintaining the price of property.

kr7

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

That wasn't the Romans

It came from much older laws - Code of Hammurabi -which in it's day was designed to stop the escalation spiral of revenge.

But the even older Code of Ur-Nammu from 4,000 years ago listed fines instead. ( Though given the social norms of the day adultery and rape carried the death penalty . )


He can still appeal the fine.

It would be interesting to see if the DPP appeals the sentence.

He wasn't fined.

He was ordered to pay compensation.

kr7

Ray Palmer wrote: »

And what would that have to do with the Romans? It's from the bible.

And it was a form of punishment used by the Romans too.

No need to be so pedantic.

gurramok

Have a laff at another judges decision.:mad:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0731/michael-shine.html
"A retired consultant surgeon has appeared in court charged with indecently assaulting 16 male patients"

RTE wrote:

Judge Cormac Dunne remanded Mr Shine on bail of his own bond of €5,000.
He agreed with the defence that it would be unfair if he was not free to travel to take some solace from the apartment in the Canary Islands and because of his age and ability to move in and out of a garda station.

jonsnow

gurramok wrote: »

Have a laff at another judges decision.:mad:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0731/michael-shine.html
"A retired consultant surgeon has appeared in court charged with indecently assaulting 16 male patientsJudge Cormac Dunne remanded Mr Shine on bail of his own bond of €5,000.
He agreed with the defence that it would be unfair if he was not free to travel to take some solace from the apartment in the Canary Islands and because of his age and ability to move in and out of a garda station. "

Hold on a second.Is the judge saying that hes fit enough to travel to his gaff in the canaries but not fit enough to make regular visits to the local garda station because that is nuts.

kr7

gurramok wrote: »

Have a laff at another judges decision.:mad:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0731/michael-shine.html
"A retired consultant surgeon has appeared in court charged with indecently assaulting 16 male patients"

I was reading that earlier ok, sometimes the law really is an ass.

Boombastic

jonsnow wrote: »

Hold on a second.Is the judge saying that hes fit enough to travel to his gaff in the canaries but not fit enough to make regular visits to the local garda station because that is nuts.

Yes. Poor guy, too infirm to sign on at Garda Station but entitled to a holiday in the Canaries:rolleyes:

The judge in the Grifith avenue case should be ashamed of themselves and the DDP should be questioning if they are a suitable appointment to the bench

System is a joke.

Money talks, it can sing and dance and rapists walk....

someuser905

ahh he was drunk, he barely touched her :rolleyes:

she is whining about not getting enough revenge

6 months is harsh

Canard

someuser905 wrote: »

ahh he was drunk, he barely touched her :rolleyes:

she is whining about not getting enough revenge

6 months is harsh

Um...so would you be happy if you were sexually assaulted and the attacker was given a sentence like that?

Probably not.

And being drunk is no excuse. I'm going to assume you're not serious.

butterflymug

<snip>

not the place.

steddyeddy

Its frankly digsusting that there is a case here where we can say there was one law for the rich and another for the poor. Justice wasnt done and equality was rewarded. I also really wish people wold stop saying it wasnt rape ect. The legal difference between sexual assault and rape isnt a good measure of the suffering the victim has and probrably will ho through. "It wasnt rape" doesn lesson the girls ordeal. Im also writing to Alan Shatter to express my disgust at this "judge". We also need to look at how people become judges and maybe even how people get into law. Its has long being seen as the preserve of the already rich and that could have created the fallacy of this "judges" thinking.

steddyeddy

Fuinseog wrote: »

The Herald reported how the father drove down to the house and started banging on the gates until dragged away by guards.

I am surprised the residents association do not picket the gaff. having a rapist as a neighbour is hardly good for maintaining the price of property.

Jesus those gaurds should have difficulty sleeping after that.

RED PASSION

steddyeddy wrote: »

Jesus those gaurds should have difficulty sleeping after that.

the guards will say they were just doing their job, like when they were dragging their neighbours away at the shell to sea campaign. probably don't care otherwise they could turn a blind eye or help open the gates with a crowbar:mad:

steddyeddy

RED PASSION wrote: »

the guards will say they were just doing their job, like when they were dragging their neighbours away at the shell to sea campaign. probably don't care otherwise they could turn a blind eye or help open the gates with a crowbar:mad:

Well considering the areas which they could have done their job (read the cloyne report) this is particularly sickening. I was only following orders.

RED PASSION

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well considering the areas which they could have done their job (read the cloyne report) this is particularly sickening. I was only following orders.

didn't read that report myself but feel it is the stuff of nightmares, i am probably better off not knowing, only ruin my image of humanity.

I feel this girl, she won't ever be the same again, it is not her fault but why why why did she not go home in a taxi or with some friend, i know hindsight is a great thing,but the streets lets be honest will never be free of these nasty people.

:mad:

Millicent

RED PASSION wrote: »

I feel this girl, she won't ever be the same again, it is not her fault but why why why did she not go home in a taxi or with some friend, i know hindsight is a great thing,but the streets lets be honest will never be free of these nasty people.

:mad:

You're more likely to be raped by someone you know. Thinking it's likely to be a stranger down a dark alley is just to comfort oneself. Rapes like this one are actually rarer than those committed by someone close to the victim. Now there's a depressing thought!

Jimmyhologram

Fuinseog wrote: »

The Herald reported how the father drove down to the house and started banging on the gates until dragged away by guards.

I am surprised the residents association do not picket the gaff. having a rapist as a neighbour is hardly good for maintaining the price of property.

We should learn the art of the escrache.

steddyeddy

RED PASSION wrote: »

didn't read that report myself but feel it is the stuff of nightmares, i am probably better off not knowing, only ruin my image of humanity.

I feel this girl, she won't ever be the same again, it is not her fault but why why why did she not go home in a taxi or with some friend, i know hindsight is a great thing,but the streets lets be honest will never be free of these nasty people.

:mad:

Dont read it youll never look at a gaurd the same way again. (I know their not all the same but I cant help thinking any of the ones I see where the cause of a sex abuse cover up). A girl I dated was a legal secatary who proof read that. The worst isnt pubicly known.

Yep poor girl and this "judge" doesnt help people who want to testify against a rapist.

RED PASSION

As bad as this is, she is lucky someone shouted and it stopped him, god knows how long or what she was going to be subjected to. still a very dangerous world.wrong place at the wrong time.

this has destroyed a family, her dad trying to get some sort of justice by going to his house. how can someone be a lovely person, lots of businesses, seen as a repectable person one night turn into a monster. the tablets i don't believe that one minute, same as neil prendeville cork radio presenter blaming neurofin for his antics on a flight.

rubadubduba

the nonce will buy a new face when he gets out and up sticks.

darragh o meara

Fuinseog wrote: »

The Herald reported how the father drove down to the house and started banging on the gates until dragged away by guards.

I am surprised the residents association do not picket the gaff. having a rapist as a neighbour is hardly good for maintaining the price of property.

Yeah and six squad cars arrived on the scene. Six flocking squad cars to protect that scum??

Try ringing in a crime in the lesser wealthy parts of the city and see how long you'd be waiting for one car to respond! It's the same with a these high profile criminals, Chap I know was out by Seany Fitz's house the other week and was stopped and questioned by cops as to what he was doing and where he was going etc.

As i stated earlier a hitman would be the only job for this fella and pay for it with his own money. If it was someone I knew I wouldn't care about going down for it once the job was done. The satisfaction of it would be enough.

humanji

Was the guy not in prison when the victims father went to his house?

Regardless, I find it f*cking hilarious that so many here are offended that Lyons got a lenient sentence, but don't mind that the victims father was merely taken away from Lyons' home without charge. Do you all want equal justice, or to satiate your moral outrage?

It's funny because people have claimed that justice should be blind, but want it to go easy on some.

And before the obvious replies, i'm disgusted with the lenient sentence, but am one of the few who believes in justice for all.

steddyeddy

humanji wrote: »

Was the guy not in prison when the victims father went to his house?

Regardless, I find it f*cking hilarious that so many here are offended that Lyons got a lenient sentence, but don't mind that the victims father was merely taken away from Lyons' home without charge. Do you all want equal justice, or to satiate your moral outrage?

It's funny because people have claimed that justice should be blind, but want it to go easy on some.

And before the obvious replies, i'm disgusted with the lenient sentence, but am one of the few who believes in justice for all.

Actually I would want it to go easy on a man whose daughter had been sexually assaulted and her attacker got six months in prison. I make no apologies for that.

humanji

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually I would want it to go easy on a man whose daughter had been sexually assaulted and her attacker got six months in prison. I make no apologies for that.

And so justice should not be equal. And who decides this inequality?

humanji

humanji wrote: »

And so justice should not be equal. And who decides this inequality?

What's your idea of equality exactly? Quite different crimes/attempted crime in my opinion.

Duggys Housemate

humanji wrote: »

Was the guy not in prison when the victims father went to his house?

Regardless, I find it f*cking hilarious that so many here are offended that Lyons got a lenient sentence, but don't mind that the victims father was merely taken away from Lyons' home without charge. Do you all want equal justice, or to satiate your moral outrage?

It's funny because people have claimed that justice should be blind, but want it to go easy on some.

And before the obvious replies, i'm disgusted with the lenient sentence, but am one of the few who believes in justice for all.

How many people get arrested for being on a street? In the vast majority of cases the guards wouldn't even show.

steddyeddy

humanji wrote: »

And so justice should not be equal. And who decides this inequality?

Well ones a sex attacker and one showed up at a sex attackers house. No one needs to decide an inequality there. Its clear.

Yakult

More justice delivered Irish style.
6 years and to suspend 5.5 years of it? On what planet is that justifiable?? The system in this country just seems to give the middle finger to public safety nearly everytime.

humanji

Deleted User wrote: »

What's your idea of equality exactly? Quite different crimes/attempted crime in my opinion.

Commit a crime and be punished for it. It's sad that it's a lost frame of mind.

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

How many people get arrested for being on a street? In the vast majority of cases the guards wouldn't even show.

And that relates to what I said because...?

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well ones a sex attacker and one showed up at a sex attackers house. No one needs to decide an inequality there. Its clear.

Yeah, two people committed crimes, two people were dealt with leniently. But because people didn't like one culprit, he should be dealt with more harshly. If that's how you feel, then maybe pop over to the Sean Quinn thread and see where that mentality gets you.

Duggys Housemate

humanji wrote: »

Commit a crime and be punished for it. It's sad that it's a lost frame of mind.
And that relates to what I said because...?

You said:

Regardless, I find it f*cking hilarious that so many here are offended that Lyons got a lenient sentence, but don't mind that the victims father was merely taken away from Lyons' home without charge.

I pointed out that most people are not arrested for being outside someones house or shouting at a house, or even banging on the gates. I bet something like that happened hundreds of times last night.
You need to get to know city life a bit better. Last time I lived in Dublin I could hear people shouting every weekend, the wind would bring the noise of the altercations across the area I lived in. Shouts of "Let Me In" variety, as someone - kicked out of a party or a house - demands to be left in for whatever reason. Accompanied by banging at doors. etc.

The Police are never called unless it escalates. If they turn up they defuse the situation, the prisons are a bit full to arrest everybody shouting outside a house.

Because I doubt it is even a crime. While you cant protest on private poperty, you can protest outside it. Arguably the police over-reached here.

Yeah, two people committed crimes, two people were dealt with leniently. But because people didn't like one culprit, he should be dealt with more harshly. If that's how you feel, then maybe pop over to the Sean Quinn thread and see where that mentality gets you.

One guy did not commit a crime - what crime do you think he committed? Where's the court case proving him guilty and of what?

In any case its insane unrelated whataboutery. Just say he had committed a crime - he jaywalked - and was left off. Would that really be the same as a lenient sentence for sexual assault. Would we really be moral imbeciles for complaining about one, and not the other?

steddyeddy

humanji wrote: »

Commit a crime and be punished for it. It's sad that it's a lost frame of mind.
And that relates to what I said because...?


Yeah, two people committed crimes, two people were dealt with leniently. But because people didn't like one culprit, he should be dealt with more harshly. If that's how you feel, then maybe pop over to the Sean Quinn thread and see where that mentality gets you.

Sorry but the victims father was not dealt with leniently. He went to the house where a sex offender had more or less got away with molesting his daughter. He wasnt charged and nor would most people going to someones house.

As regards not liking the cuprit, Its more the fact that he molseted a girl and didnt recieve justice that im concerned about.