Money talks in Ireland

Fuinseog

Millicent wrote: »

You're more likely to be raped by someone you know.

or someone who lives on the same road.

it would be interesting if the judges in this country has contact with life as most experience it. they are not exposed to it in their ivory towers.

the father went to the house to make a loud protest but not cause any harm. according to the herald armed detectives rushed to the scene.

in the Godfather Part I a man goes to Don Corleone to ask a favour. his daughter was beaten up and the defendants laughed in court and were acquitted. he asked Don Corleone for justice.

if things continue maybe that is how people are going to seek justice in this country. gangland godfathers stand to make a killing.

in the the north people did not ring the police they rang the Ra who dealt with joyriders and anti social behaviour.

Jimmyhologram

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry but the victims father was not dealt with leniently. He went to the house where a sex offender had more or less got away with molesting his daughter. He wasnt charged and nor would most people going to someones house.

In this case, maybe the police showing up was more to protect the father than the house of the sex offender? The situation wasn't going anywhere good for either party, but particularly for the father

Well, as angry as this whole story has made me, his wife and kids haven't harmed anybody. Just a few more victims.

Fuinseog

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Well, as angry as this whole story has made me, his wife and kids haven't harmed anybody. Just a few more victims.

his wife defended him in court. if you defend a rapist you are not so innocent.

Lord of the Bongs

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, I was going to post that.

It would seem that provided you have enough money, you can buy your way out of being properly punished for serious crimes.

The money is to compensate the victim, the jail time is to punish the offender. The two should be treated as separate items and one should have no bearing on the other.

Six months for a violent sexual assault, which would have been worse except that it was stopped. Unbelievable.

Thats the point though, they were not treated as seperatley and he got a reduced sentence BECAUSE he offer the cash, the judge took that into account.

humanji

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

The Police are never called unless it escalates. If they turn up they defuse the situation, the prisons are a bit full to arrest everybody shouting outside a house.

Because I doubt it is even a crime. While you cant protest on private poperty, you can protest outside it. Arguably the police over-reached here.

How many people on this thread have said things along the lines "if it was my daughter, I'd kill him"? Well this was his daughter, and we went to the guys house to confront him. If I was in the house, I'd be hoping the cops got there as fast as possible to stop the guy who could quite likely kill me and my family.

One guy did not commit a crime - what crime do you think he committed? Where's the court case proving him guilty and of what?

Harassment is a criminal offence.

In any case its insane unrelated whataboutery. Just say he had committed a crime - he jaywalked - and was left off. Would that really be the same as a lenient sentence for sexual assault. Would we really be moral imbeciles for complaining about one, and not the other?

Yes, you would. Because the point of this thread was that someone is supposedly getting treated leniently by the legal system because of their background. Now people are demanding that nothing happen to the father because of his background.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry but the victims father was not dealt with leniently. He went to the house where a sex offender had more or less got away with molesting his daughter. He wasnt charged and nor would most people going to someones house.

As regards not liking the cuprit, Its more the fact that he molseted a girl and didnt recieve justice that im concerned about.

See above.

Fuinseog wrote: »

his wife defended him in court. if you defend a rapist you are not so innocent.

Meaningless. She still becomes a victim. As I said above, just because you don't like them, doesn't mean the law should be enacted any differently for them.

ejmaztec

Mr Coveney, when asked about the sentence, said: "If at times we need to change policy to influence sentencing -- like for example we do for organised crime or for drugs crime -- well that's a process that has to be gone through in the Oireachtas.

"But I think it's very dangerous for public representatives to start commenting on sentences that judges make because it's their job to basically hear all the evidence and to make a judgment call.

"If a judge made that call, I'm happy to go with that."

It's odd that a public representative says that public representatives shouldn't comment on sentences, then that public representative makes a comment that he agrees with the judge.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/coveney-supports-judge-over-sentence-3187104.html

Deedsie

Lord of the Bongs wrote: »

Thats the point though, they were not treated as seperatley and he got a reduced sentence BECAUSE he offer the cash, the judge took that into account.

According to Joe Duffy, the victim said she didnt want any conpensation if it would in anyway affect the length of the sentence.

Of all the turmoil in Ireland at the moment, banking, child abuse, abortion etc

This case has left me colder than any of them. It's a fúcken disgusting country we live in at times. I hope that prick gets similar treatment to what he dished out to that poor girl every day for 4.5 months.

Duggys Housemate

Humanji, your excuses are not working. Harassment may be illegal, protesting isn't. If the cops had a case they could prosecute. This guy, far from being treated leniently by the system, got manhandled by 6 cops in a situation where, for the most part, cops never turn up at all.

SocSocPol

humanji wrote: »

How many people on this thread have said things along the lines "if it was my daughter, I'd kill him"? Well this was his daughter, and we went to the guys house to confront him. If I was in the house, I'd be hoping the cops got there as fast as possible to stop the guy who could quite likely kill me and my family.



Harassment is a criminal offence.


Yes, you would. Because the point of this thread was that someone is supposedly getting treated leniently by the legal system because of their background. Now people are demanding that nothing happen to the father because of his background.


See above.


Meaningless. She still becomes a victim. As I said above, just because you don't like them, doesn't mean the law should be enacted any differently for them.

With respect you are wholly wrong, people are demanding that the victims father is shown leniency not becuase of his background but because of the circumstances surrounding his actions. there is a huge difference between the two.

Boombastic

6 Garda cars showed up to remove the father from the scums gates,


Remind me again how many squad cars turned up when the attack was happening?

steddyeddy

humanji wrote: »

How many people on this thread have said things along the lines "if it was my daughter, I'd kill him"? Well this was his daughter, and we went to the guys house to confront him. If I was in the house, I'd be hoping the cops got there as fast as possible to stop the guy who could quite likely kill me and my family.



Harassment is a criminal offence.


Yes, you would. Because the point of this thread was that someone is supposedly getting treated leniently by the legal system because of their background. Now people are demanding that nothing happen to the father because of his background.


See above.


Meaningless. She still becomes a victim. As I said above, just because you don't like them, doesn't mean the law should be enacted any differently for them.

Right, the irish indo today reported the victim's father tunred up at the gates. Nothing more. When the police arrived he left. He didnt break the law.

mackg

steddyeddy wrote: »

Right, the irish indo today reported the victim's father tunred up at the gates. Nothing more. When the police arrived he left. He didnt break the law.

That's fair enough if that's the end of it.

The thing about 6 squad cars turning up does make some argument for a "one law for the rich" culture but again the sentence doesn't. Why are people saying that he got off because he is rich when everyone practically everyone convicted on these charges is given a ridiculously lenient sentence regardless of class or wealth. Serious crime in Ireland is not treeated harshly enough. We have threads about "skangers" with 200 convictions getting off but when the same thing happens to a rich guy it's because he is rich?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056705693

I hate the idea of "one law for the rich" as much as anyone but this case shows no evidence of it.

As for who ever said his wife is also guilty because she stood up for him in court remember that he pleaded innocence and I wonder would you expect your wife to believe you should you ever find yourself in a similar situation.

Boombastic

His dumb bint of a wife is sticking by him for the money



She obviously has no self respect

steddyeddy

mackg wrote: »

That's fair enough if that's the end of it.

The thing about 6 squad cars turning up does make some argument for a "one law for the rich" culture but again the sentence doesn't. Why are people saying that he got off because he is rich when everyone practically everyone convicted on these charges is given a ridiculously lenient sentence regardless of class or wealth. Serious crime in Ireland is not treeated harshly enough. We have threads about "skangers" with 200 convictions getting off but when the same thing happens to a rich guy it's because he is rich?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056705693

I hate the idea of "one law for the rich" as much as anyone but this case shows no evidence of it.

As for who ever said his wife is also guilty because she stood up for him in court remember that he pleaded innocence and I wonder would you expect your wife to believe you should you ever find yourself in a similar situation.

In fairness his ability to pay the large compensation was taken into account when passing the sentence. If he hadnt got the money to pay compensation the sentence probrably would have been longer!

OldNotWIse

Lord of the Bongs wrote: »

Thats the point though, they were not treated as seperatley and he got a reduced sentence BECAUSE he offer the cash, the judge took that into account.

Thats quite sick When I read posts parping on about "money talking" I assumed it was just mob hysteria bc he happened to be wealthy but seriously - a reduced sentence because he can pay? Disgusting... I wonder would the family be happier with a lengthier sentence and smaller compensation? If the compensation and jail time are inversely proportional, one wonders where the "balance" would lie for her, or indeed for any of us if we were in that awful situation :mad: Then again, no amount of money would ever undo the trauma.

Canard

I didn't realize he'd pleaded innocent...how does that show the character of someone "unlikely to reoffend"? Wow.

gypsy_rose

Patchy~ wrote: »

I didn't realize he'd pleaded innocent...how does that show the character of someone "unlikely to reoffend"? Wow.

When the victim pointed him out from the squad car on the night he claimed that the cut on his head was from "horseplay" in the pub and that he'd lost his umbrella. He'd left his umbrella at the scene of the crime and the cut was from her hitting him over the head. There was no way he was gonna admit to it unless he was caught red handed, which he was.

humanji

SocSocPol wrote: »

With respect you are wholly wrong, people are demanding that the victims father is shown leniency not becuase of his background but because of the circumstances surrounding his actions. there is a huge difference between the two.

As I said, people want leniency for those they side with.

Patchy~ wrote:

I didn't realize he'd pleaded innocent...how does that show the character of someone "unlikely to reoffend"? Wow.

It's because the system sees victims as culprits and culprits as victims.

Duggys Housemate

humanji wrote: »

As I said, people want leniency for those they side with.

You are the only person who thinks that a guy getting bundled into a car by six cops because is he outside someone's house - in a possible protest, but thats not even established - is getting lenient treatment.

Boombastic

Patchy~ wrote: »

I didn't realize he'd pleaded innocent...how does that show the character of someone "unlikely to reoffend"? Wow.

because the Judge knows best

stone roses

"money talks in ireland"?? well as far as i can see money talks in every part of the world its not an irish thing! Greed and money rule everything and its not important who OR what you are , as long as you have the cash you will get away with anything and people will always protect you

SocSocPol

humanji wrote: »

As I said, people want leniency for those they side with.



It's because the system sees victims as culprits and culprits as victims.

Any possibibility that you would care to address the difference between background and circumstance that raised, or are you just to to stick to meaningless one liners. Debate is not enhanced by dismissive one line repostes which neuther address the issues nor engage those interested in teasing the subject matter out.

Fuinseog

Meaningless. She still becomes a victim. As I said above, just because you don't like them, doesn't mean the law should be enacted any differently for them.[/QUOTE]

she stood up in court and gave him a glowing character reference and tried to get him off the hook. she is more an accomplice than a victim.

Fuinseog

Boombastic wrote: »

because the Judge knows best

the odd thing is that the victim did not want financial compensation, especially if it would interfere with the sentence.

75k is a laughable amount given that the man of means has awarded himself a pension of a million euro. he is sharing the pension with his wife. no wonder she stood up for him in court.

Colmustard

He has to be dumbest criminal in Ireland. He did get off lightly but as another poster made the point a lot "get off" lightly with this type of offence.

Fuinseog

Patchy~ wrote: »

I didn't realize he'd pleaded innocent...how does that show the character of someone "unlikely to reoffend"? Wow.

he was of such good character that he only owned up ten days later. i am surprised he did not try to intimidate or buy off the victim before the trial.

RED PASSION

Fuinseog wrote: »

he was of such good character that he only owned up ten days later. i am surprised he did not try to intimidate or buy off the victim before the trial.

good point, €150,000 keep your mouth shut

Boombastic

Fuinseog wrote: »

he was of such good character that he only owned up ten days later. i am surprised he did not try to intimidate or buy off the victim before the trial.

It was the cough syrup that done it


Lyons had claimed a combination of cough syrup, alcohol and other drugs had triggered an "irresistible urge" to attack the young woman.

ejmaztec

Boombastic wrote: »

It was the cough syrup that done it


Lyons had claimed a combination of cough syrup, alcohol and other drugs had triggered an "irresistible urge" to attack the young woman.

He should have resisted the urge to get a chemical cocktail down his neck in that case. Even an idiot would realise it wasn't the smart thing to do.

Boombastic

ejmaztec wrote: »

He should have resisted the urge to get a chemical cocktail down his neck in that case. Even an idiot would realise it wasn't the smart thing to do.

The only chemicals this man should be forced to take in future should be to chemically castrate him

BlueSmoker

starbelgrade wrote: »

He was found guilty of sexual assault, not rape.

and your point is?????, basically the description, that was posted earlier, he was more or less going to rape her, until someone shouted outloud,

infact I don't see any difference between sexual assault and Rape, if anyone would care to explain that would be great.

Fuinseog

Boombastic wrote: »

It was the cough syrup that done it


Lyons had claimed a combination of cough syrup, alcohol and other drugs had triggered an "irresistible urge" to attack the young woman.

just like the Cork DJ took neurophen which made jerk off on the plane. cough syrups should come with warnings.

BlueSmoker

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Thats quite sick When I read posts parping on about "money talking" I assumed it was just mob hysteria bc he happened to be wealthy but seriously - a reduced sentence because he can pay? Disgusting... I wonder would the family be happier with a lengthier sentence and smaller compensation? If the compensation and jail time are inversely proportional, one wonders where the "balance" would lie for her, or indeed for any of us if we were in that awful situation :mad: Then again, no amount of money would ever undo the trauma.

I believe, if anyone was attacked and short of becoming raped, €75,000 wouldn't even come close to sorting out what might be going through their head, and he ends up walking after 6 months, smug as ****en punch, and some else said it's nothing to do with money, they still walk a way as smug as punch. "Sure she was asking for it even after I broke two of her ribs, and her collar bone, she moaned in my general direction"

This country needs to ****en seriously cop on to itself, this **** makes me sick to be Irish

CageWager

the next time I'm leasing a jet there's no way I'm going through this fcuker

CodyJarrett

BlueSmoker wrote: »

infact I don't see any difference between sexual assault and Rape, if anyone would care to explain that would be great.

I presume one requires penetration to have been involved and the other does not.

steddyeddy

BlueSmoker wrote: »

I believe, if anyone was attacked and short of becoming raped, €75,000 wouldn't even come close to sorting out what might be going through their head, and he ends up walking after 6 months, smug as ****en punch, and some else said it's nothing to do with money, they still walk a way as smug as punch. "Sure she was asking for it even after I broke two of her ribs, and her collar bone, she moaned in my general direction"

This country needs to ****en seriously cop on to itself, this **** makes me sick to be Irish

This. Im hoping theres going to be some sort of petition available. Apart from that it would be nice to picket picket outside the judges and attackers house.

Boombastic

Covney agrees with the judge

"If a judge made that call, I'm happy to go with that."

mackg

steddyeddy wrote: »

This. Im hoping theres going to be some sort of petition available. Apart from that it would be nice to picket picket outside the judges and attackers house.

While the attacker is prison you are just picketing his family, why on earth do you want to do that? What did they do?

Boombastic

DPP to Appeal Lyons sentence within the next 21 days, the appeal will be based on the fact that Judge Hogan misdirected himself by stating that the requirements of the Sex Offenders Act was punishment in itself when the High Court have already ruled that the Act is not a punishment.....................Judge Hogan contradicted a previous High Court ruling which stated that being registered as a sex offender is not a punishment. He registered Lyons as a sex offender at a previous hearing and noted that this was a punishment in itself.




Hopefully the DDP will win and the sentence enacted

Fuinseog

BlueSmoker wrote: »

I believe, if anyone was attacked and short of becoming raped, €75,000 wouldn't even come close to sorting out what might be going through their head, and he ends up walking after 6 months, smug as ****en punch, and some else said it's nothing to do with money, they still walk a way as smug as punch. "Sure she was asking for it even after I broke two of her ribs, and her collar bone, she moaned in my general direction"

This country needs to ****en seriously cop on to itself, this **** makes me sick to be Irish

a year or two ago the son of the Maltese ambassador sexually assaulted a woman and the ambassador had to leave the country. if only he had paid 75k.

SocSocPol

steddyeddy wrote: »

This. Im hoping theres going to be some sort of petition available. Apart from that it would be nice to picket picket outside the judges and attackers house.

Picketing the attackers house does nothing other than victimise his four children, takes a big man to victimise kids!

Dyr

SocSocPol wrote: »

Picketing the attackers house does nothing other than victimise his four children, takes a big man to victimise kids!

Takes some mother to have her kids living with a convicted sex offender. take's some cowardly pr**k to hide behind his kids

kr7

SocSocPol wrote: »

Picketing the attackers house does nothing other than victimise his four children, takes a big man to victimise kids!

How would picketing the house of a convicted sex offender, victimise his kids?

It takes a big man to attack a young woman, deny it and then come back ten days later with some bull****e excuse to try and get off the hook!

Fuinseog

SocSocPol wrote: »

Picketing the attackers house does nothing other than victimise his four children, takes a big man to victimise kids!

maybe the picketers are there to make sure his kids get home safe. I am sure lyons has heard how unsafe the avenue has become in recent times. its simply not safe to walk on your own at night.

TommyKnocker

BlueSmoker wrote: »

and your point is?????, basically the description, that was posted earlier, he was more or less going to rape her, until someone shouted outloud,

infact I don't see any difference between sexual assault and Rape, if anyone would care to explain that would be great.

CodyJarrett wrote: »

I presume one requires penetration to have been involved and the other does not.

As I understand the law, Rape in Ireland is defined as peneration of the vagina by the penis. AFAIK there is also oral rape, digital rape, anal rape & object rape (penatration of the vagina/anus by an item other than a body part)

Accoring to what I have read on this case the young woman was digitally raped (he used his finger(s) ) Sexual assault is assulat of a sexual nature where no type of peneratration occurs, what the culprit referred to as "fondling"

steddyeddy

SocSocPol wrote: »

Picketing the attackers house does nothing other than victimise his four children, takes a big man to victimise kids!

Well in fairness I never thought about it that way. Its important to keep a calm head with things like this. I wouldnt like to cause his kids any distress obviously.

SocSocPol

Fuinseog wrote: »

maybe the picketers are there to make sure his kids get home safe. I am sure lyons has heard how unsafe the avenue has become in recent times. its simply not safe to walk on your own at night.

Like I said it takes a big man to terrorise kids, and your obviously real big, in fact your not much better than Lyons himself are you?:mad:

SocSocPol

kr7 wrote: »

How would picketing the house of a convicted sex offender, victimise his kids?

It takes a big man to attack a young woman, deny it and then come back ten days later with some bull****e excuse to try and get off the hook!

Because while the attacker is now in jail(though for nowhere near long enough), his kids live in the house, do you really believe that terrorizing them does anything good for anyone?
Terrorizing kids is the act of a cowardly bully, why lower yourself to Lyons level?

Fuinseog

is Lyons evens going to be incarcerated in the rapist-paedophile wing of prison?
a rapist has gotten off the hook here and justice has not been served. it is only natural that people want to voice their anger. who wants a rapist and his family living beside them?
I wonder would his wife have provided a cover story for him had he had the opportuntity to get into his house before the guards got him?