Eircom illegally charging VAT on cancellation fee

Freddy Smelly

when you say you had no service did you phoneline work so that you could make phone calls even if your broabnad didnt? if yes then you are liable for vat charges

cookie1977

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

when you say you had no service did you phoneline work so that you could make phone calls even if your broabnad didnt? if yes then you are liable for vat charges

Why?

If you cancel a contract then you dont owe VAT on the contract penalty fee.

tibolt

Can Tony or one of the eircom reps please clarify:

Is Vat payable on early cancellation fees?
Yes or No?

eircom: Tony

tibolt wrote: »

Can Tony or one of the eircom reps please clarify:

Is Vat payable on early cancellation fees?
Yes or No?

Hi Guys
I understand that is taking a long time to get the answerhere..
I have replied with the only response available at this time. That this issue has been reported and is under examination. I will not be advised on any action until the appropriate examination has been fully concluded. I do know that this is not a simple matter and any final decision here would affect many people. I would guess, and this is my own opinion, that there are legal and regulatory barriers to releasing a definite response before a definite result and action have been decided on.
I do promise that once the examination has been fully concluded we will be able to provide a clear answer.
Tony

eircom: Tony

tibolt wrote: »

Can Tony or one of the eircom reps please clarify:

Is Vat payable on early cancellation fees?
Yes or No?

Hi tibolt
at the moment as the above posts state, vat is charged.
I have responded to many of the earlier posts on this issue and can advise that it is under examination. See post just before this one to yourself.
Tony

MadsL

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi tibolt
at the moment as the above posts state, vat is charged.
I have responded to many of the earlier posts on this issue and can advise that it is under examination. See post just before this one to yourself.
Tony

Tony, this thread is almost a year old. Are you saying that eircom are still investigating this matter after eleven months?? Has your CFO been informed of this?

eircom: Tony

MadsL wrote: »

Tony, this thread is almost a year old. Are you saying that eircom are still investigating this matter after eleven months?? Has your CFO been informed of this?

Hi MadsL
yes and I presume Revenue also. I cannot comment on CFO involvement but can confirm that any such issue would be dealt with at the highest and appropriate levels. As I say as long as an examination is ongoing we are unlikely to have any specific comment. This is usual in such cases.
Tony

Engine No.9

Just emailed the link to this thread to morning ireland, irish times, irish independent, sunday business post (daily business post as it's now called with only an online presence) and also the daily mail. Bit apprehensive about how the daily mail will sensationalise it but still.

EDIT: Assuming they run with it.

Tragedy

How long has it been now, a year? And still eircom are illegally charging VAT on cancellation fees.

MadsL

pajopearl wrote: »

Just emailed the link to this thread to morning ireland, irish times, irish independent, sunday business post (daily business post as it's now called with only an online presence) and also the daily mail. Bit apprehensive about how the daily mail will sensationalise it but still.

EDIT: Assuming they run with it.

Journalism stinks in Ireland. No sense of the public interest at all..

Ten of Swords

Is 2014 going to be the year this matter is finally settled? 

fergus1001

Bump

XsApollo

Just seen this.
Alot of people could be owed alot of money and not just by eircom.
subscribed and bumping.

MadsL

XsApollo wrote: »

Just seen this.
Alot of people could be owed alot of money and not just by eircom.
subscribed and bumping.

I am disgusted that Irish journalists have not covered this, or that it has taken this long for eircom to deal with it. Do people actually simply not care about consumer rights in Ireland?

XsApollo

MadsL wrote: »

I am disgusted that Irish journalists have not covered this, or that it has taken this long for eircom to deal with it. Do people actually simply not care about consumer rights in Ireland?

Agreed.
This sh*t drives me mad.

Ray Darcy's show could be one to air this.
That guy who seems to be in the know consumer wise (can't remember his name) does be on there once a week.

Edit: Conor Pope is the dude.

eircom: Tony

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi MadsL

As is usual , all vat collected would be done on instruction of Revenue and would be passed on to them, this would not be initiated by eircom.. The issue, as posted previously, is under investigation but as this is a revenue issue as opposed to a specifically eircom issue I do not have any further information at this time. We will definitely post what ever information becomes available as result of investigation.
Tony

I have subscribed to this thread. Would have been charged VAT on cancelling with electric and mobile companies in the past.

I have a query with regards to the bolded part above. What instruction is eircom Tony talking about? The instruction as per the Revenue notice below, or a different instruction?

Section 5.4 of the attached Revenue Notice states:Where a supplier levies a charge on a customer in the event of the customer cancelling an order or request for a supply of goods or services and the supply does not take place, VAT is not due on the “cancellation charge” as set out in paragraph 3.2 above.

Johnboy1951

Section 5.4 of the attached Revenue Notice states:Where a supplier levies a charge on a customer in the event of the customer cancelling an order or request for a supply of goods or services and the supply does not take place, VAT is not due on the “cancellation charge” as set out in paragraph 3.2 above.

I am inclined to the view this does not apply in the case of a customer cancelling, before the end date of the current contract, a service they have been receiving, and that it only applies to cancelling an order for a service which has never been supplied based on that order.

I have not read any of the other Sections of the Revenue Notice, so there might be something I am missing .......

eircom: Tony

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi MadsL

As is usual , all vat collected would be done on instruction of Revenue and would be passed on to them, this would not be initiated by eircom.. The issue, as posted previously, is under investigation but as this is a revenue issue as opposed to a specifically eircom issue I do not have any further information at this time. We will definitely post what ever information becomes available as result of investigation.
Tony

I have subscribed to this thread. Would have been charged VAT on cancelling with electric and mobile companies in the past.

I have a query with regards to the bolded part above. What instruction is eircom Tony talking about? The instruction as per the Revenue notice below, or a different instruction?

Section 5.4 of the attached Revenue Notice states:Where a supplier levies a charge on a customer in the event of the customer cancelling an order or request for a supply of goods or services and the supply does not take place, VAT is not due on the “cancellation charge” as set out in paragraph 3.2 above.

Hi Strawberry Milkshake
Maybe instruction is not the correct word, this was my own. Guideline may have been more appropriate, where we would have followed existing, rather than specific guidelines on this issue, at the time. I do not have full details on this but as posted in earlier post, we will be sure to post a response as soon as we have this available.
As your own post demonstrates, it is not helpful in my posting half an answer, and we will have response as soon as available.
Tony

Johnboy1951

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi MadsL

As is usual , all vat collected would be done on instruction of Revenue and would be passed on to them, this would not be initiated by eircom.. The issue, as posted previously, is under investigation but as this is a revenue issue as opposed to a specifically eircom issue I do not have any further information at this time. We will definitely post what ever information becomes available as result of investigation.
Tony

I have subscribed to this thread. Would have been charged VAT on cancelling with electric and mobile companies in the past.

I have a query with regards to the bolded part above. What instruction is eircom Tony talking about? The instruction as per the Revenue notice below, or a different instruction?

Section 5.4 of the attached Revenue Notice states:Where a supplier levies a charge on a customer in the event of the customer cancelling an order or request for a supply of goods or services and the supply does not take place, VAT is not due on the “cancellation charge” as set out in paragraph 3.2 above.

Hi Strawberry Milkshake
Maybe instruction is not the correct word, this was my own. Guideline may have been more appropriate, where we would have followed existing, rather than specific guidelines on this issue, at the time. I do not have full details on this but as posted in earlier post, we will be sure to post a response as soon as we have this available.
As your own post demonstrates, it is not helpful in my posting half an answer, and we will have response as soon as available.
Tony

Tony,
            Do you think it reasonable that customers should have to wait more than two and a half years for Eircom to comment on this matter?

eircom: Tony

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi MadsL

As is usual , all vat collected would be done on instruction of Revenue and would be passed on to them, this would not be initiated by eircom.. The issue, as posted previously, is under investigation but as this is a revenue issue as opposed to a specifically eircom issue I do not have any further information at this time. We will definitely post what ever information becomes available as result of investigation.
Tony

I have subscribed to this thread. Would have been charged VAT on cancelling with electric and mobile companies in the past.

I have a query with regards to the bolded part above. What instruction is eircom Tony talking about? The instruction as per the Revenue notice below, or a different instruction?

Section 5.4 of the attached Revenue Notice states:Where a supplier levies a charge on a customer in the event of the customer cancelling an order or request for a supply of goods or services and the supply does not take place, VAT is not due on the “cancellation charge” as set out in paragraph 3.2 above.

Hi Strawberry Milkshake
Maybe instruction is not the correct word, this was my own. Guideline may have been more appropriate, where we would have followed existing, rather than specific guidelines on this issue, at the time. I do not have full details on this but as posted in earlier post, we will be sure to post a response as soon as we have this available.
As your own post demonstrates, it is not helpful in my posting half an answer, and we will have response as soon as available.
Tony

Tony,
            Do you think it reasonable that customers should have to wait more than two and a half years for Eircom to comment on this matter?

Hi johnyboy1951
We here have only been aware of the request for info since July of last year. At the time we were unable top offer any information as issue was under investigation. At the moment we here do not have access to further information, or we would be able to post this
We have requested any update and have been assured that once a full account of issue is available we can post here.
My own opinion on what is reasonable is hardly relevant or helpful though my experience with large companies does show that these things do take time.
Tony

Engine No.9

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi johnyboy1951
We here have only been aware of the request for info since July of last year.

Pretty sure you mean the year before, Tony. Almost 18 months now since this thread started. And that, my good man, is an exceptionally lengthened period of time.

eircom: Tony

pajopearl wrote: »

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi johnyboy1951
We here have only been aware of the request for info since July of last year.

Pretty sure you mean the year before, Tony. Almost 18 months now since this thread started. And that, my good man, is an exceptionally lengthened period of time.

pajopearl, you are quite correct, wow that was a fast year... my apologies I got my dates wrong. Yes it is a long time. Unfortunately as long as an issue is still within any legal consideration we would not be in a position to speculate. All I can say is that as soon as we can, we will post this here.
Thanks for the correction..
Tony

TheBody

Meet ye all back here in 12 months while Eircom ignore us for another year!!

kippy

eircom: Tony wrote: »

pajopearl, you are quite correct, wow that was a fast year... my apologies I got my dates wrong. Yes it is a long time. Unfortunately as long as an issue is still within any legal consideration we would not be in a position to speculate. All I can say is that as soon as we can, we will post this here.
Thanks for the correction..
Tony

Tony who exactly is considering this? It is surely an open and closed case. If anythimg the time would better have been spent in refunding customers/ex customers.

fergus1001

I'm sending a link of this to Connor pope on ray Darcy see if that doesn't light a fire under there ass or Maby Joe Duffy hmmm

Johnboy1951

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi MadsL

As is usual , all vat collected would be done on instruction of Revenue and would be passed on to them, this would not be initiated by eircom.. The issue, as posted previously, is under investigation but as this is a revenue issue as opposed to a specifically eircom issue I do not have any further information at this time. We will definitely post what ever information becomes available as result of investigation.
Tony

I have subscribed to this thread. Would have been charged VAT on cancelling with electric and mobile companies in the past.

I have a query with regards to the bolded part above. What instruction is eircom Tony talking about? The instruction as per the Revenue notice below, or a different instruction?

Section 5.4 of the attached Revenue Notice states:Where a supplier levies a charge on a customer in the event of the customer cancelling an order or request for a supply of goods or services and the supply does not take place, VAT is not due on the “cancellation charge” as set out in paragraph 3.2 above.

Hi Strawberry Milkshake
Maybe instruction is not the correct word, this was my own. Guideline may have been more appropriate, where we would have followed existing, rather than specific guidelines on this issue, at the time. I do not have full details on this but as posted in earlier post, we will be sure to post a response as soon as we have this available.
As your own post demonstrates, it is not helpful in my posting half an answer, and we will have response as soon as available.
Tony

Tony,
            Do you think it reasonable that customers should have to wait more than two and a half years for Eircom to comment on this matter?

Hi johnyboy1951
We here have only been aware of the request for info since July of last year. At the time we were unable top offer any information as issue was under investigation. At the moment we here do not have access to further information, or we would be able to post this
We have requested any update and have been assured that once a full account of issue is available we can post here.
My own opinion on what is reasonable is hardly relevant or helpful though my experience with large companies does show that these things do take time.
Tony

Tony,
          Apologies for me also getting the time incorrect .....  it should have been 1.5 years of course.

The interpretation of the quoted Revenue notice would take but a couple of minutes by a competent person.
That interpretation could easily be posted.

OK, I understand it might take some time to get the attention of this 'competent person' ......  but 18 months is truly unacceptable as a response time for such a clarification.

As I posted earlier I am of the opinion that Eircom must charge VAT on any charges due to a cancellation of a service they are supplying ......  but I am not a 'competent person' in this regard.
They should not charge VAT if the service was never supplied.

I do not believe Eircom have anything to worry about or hide from ......  but letting this thread drag on for so long is very damaging.
Eircom should, if not for their customers sake, then for their own, get off their rump and issue a simple statement to put an end to this.

JB

Engine No.9

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Eircom should, if not for their customers sake, then for their own, get off their rump and issue a simple statement to put an end to this.

JB

This is a non-issue for them as they're not being pressurised by either the media or special interest groups who are getting media covered, hence, no statement

kippy

pajopearl wrote: »

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Eircom should, if not for their customers sake, then for their own, get off their rump and issue a simple statement to put an end to this.

JB

This is a non-issue for them as they're not being pressurised by either the media or special interest groups who are getting media covered, hence, no statement

I think the reason why theres no statement forthcoming is simply because this issues effects a lot more organisations than just Eircom. I doubt any one of these organisations wants to be the resources towards a number of VAT refunds going back years and as far as these organisations are concerned, the less said about the matter the better. Every one of Eircoms competitors are in the same boat so no one wants to highlight it. Unless it hits mainstream media........

Herr Khume Schuccs

eircom: Tony wrote: »

pajopearl wrote: »

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi johnyboy1951
We here have only been aware of the request for info since July of last year.

Pretty sure you mean the year before, Tony. Almost 18 months now since this thread started. And that, my good man, is an exceptionally lengthened period of time.

pajopearl, you are quite correct, wow that was a fast year... my apologies I got my dates wrong. Yes it is a long time. Unfortunately as long as an issue is still within any legal consideration we would not be in a position to speculate. All I can say is that as soon as we can, we will post this here.
Thanks for the correction..
Tony

Why do Eircom consider this is a legal issue still under consideration? The European Courts of Justice have ruled on this issue years ago, being the highest court in the EU I'm afraid this is no longer speculation and Eircom's opinion on the rights or wrongs of this do not really matter. The Irish authority on taxation, the Revenue Commissioners, include this ruling as part of the current position in relation to VAT in Ireland (see their website), to clarify anything related to this Eircom should simply contact the Revenue Commissioners. Could Eircom briefly outline all the work they have been doing to clarify this issue over the last few years?
This was one of the issues I raised with Eircom after the cancellation charge in lieu of 1 months notice that was imposed after moving from them last year, their final reply last month was very clear that the VAT charged was correct and that I had to pay it - no mention that the whole issue was under investigation. This sort of carry on from Eircom is nothing new, even though ComReg had ruled against the 1 month notice charge, Eircom subsequently informed me that that charge was correct also and I would be pursued for payment. Looks like Eircom are a law unto themselves!

sidcon

Herr Khume Schuccs wrote: »

Why do Eircom consider this is a legal issue still under consideration? The European Courts of Justice have ruled on this issue years ago, being the highest court in the EU I'm afraid this is no longer speculation and Eircom's opinion on the rights or wrongs of this do not really matter. The Irish authority on taxation, the Revenue Commissioners, include this ruling as part of the current position in relation to VAT in Ireland (see their website), to clarify anything related to this Eircom should simply contact the Revenue Commissioners. Could Eircom briefly outline all the work they have been doing to clarify this issue over the last few years?
This was one of the issues I raised with Eircom after the cancellation charge in lieu of 1 months notice that was imposed after moving from them last year, their final reply last month was very clear that the VAT charged was correct and that I had to pay it - no mention that the whole issue was under investigation. This sort of carry on from Eircom is nothing new, even though ComReg had ruled against the 1 month notice charge, Eircom subsequently informed me that that charge was correct also and I would be pursued for payment. Looks like Eircom are a law unto themselves!

As I stated in my previous posts, I contacted the revenue department about it and they also agreed that you cannot charge vat on something that was not provided.
When the revenue wrote to Eircom on my behalf stating an overcharge, Eircom contacted myself and informed me that the system they use does not have the facility to charge zero % vat.
I told them in no uncertain circumstances that I need a invoice to be sent to myself for my records or the bill would not be paid.
They have since threaten me with solicitors and I threatened them back with mine and I was informed that I do not have to pay the bill.
Stand up for yourselves people the corporation is overcharging and they are to cheap to update their system because everyone is rolling over.