New Dublin Bus GT Class

joegriffinjnr

Looking very well. Photos on Tony Murrays site. Note the centre plug type doors.

http://www.dublinbus.cc/gt1.htm

foggy_lad

Are the centre doors going to be used in buses in service or is it required as an emergency exit due to the removal of the rear emergency exit?

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

Are the centre doors going to be used in buses in service or is it required as an emergency exit due to the removal of the rear emergency exit?

I would assume they removed the emergency exit door due to no longer been needed due to the presence of the center doors. However that doesn't mean they will use the center doors in normal service.

The position of the CCTV screen to show space upstairs is weird. It is a great idea, however I wonder if it's low position will mean it is easily vandalised.

No sign of screens for bus stop information unfortunately.

miller50841

Why are they still using an over 12 year front design with normal lights.

Its about time they upgraded to led and bi-xenon as all rear lights are led.

Don't see the monitors lasting very long either people will just wreck them.

The double door system is great and was used for many many years before but the major safety problem is there is not enough space at bus stops to let the bus in parallel with the path e.g Ilegal parking, traffic, obstructions(light poles, traffic polesand so on)

I hope there will be better mirrors attached to the outside as the ones used now are big but don't give any good indication as to how close the back is to something.

CIE

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Looking very well. Photos on Tony Murrays site. Note the centre plug type doors.

http://www.dublinbus.cc/gt1.htm

More small-diametre wheels (rims and tyres)? Those scared me on the KD-class (especially when I was once on a route 86 bus that skidded across the intersection of Johnstown Road and Bray Road in Cabinteely). I would feel safer with a bigger foot print.

Are the centre doors going to be used? Or is it just the new "Éalú"?

miller50841

CIE wrote: »

More small-diametre wheels (rims and tyres)? Those scared me on the KD-class (especially when I was once on a route 86 bus that skidded across the intersection of Johnstown Road and Bray Road in Cabinteely). I would feel safer with a bigger foot print.

Are the centre doors going to be used? Or is it just the new "Éalú"?

Wheels and tyres are same size just body design puts you off a bit.

Centre doors will be used as an exit only its to try and speed up the loading and unloading just a shame they didn't do this on the try axle (vt) as it takes ages to unload and then load

CIE

miller50841 wrote: »

Wheels and tyres are same size just body design puts you off a bit.

Centre doors will be used as an exit only its to try and speed up the loading and unloading; just a shame they didn't do this on the try axle (vt) as it takes ages to unload and then load

I thought it was a shame that they didn't do this on the centre-door Atlanteans myself. Back then though (60s/70s/early 80s), loading was a bit faster due to having conductors. The only time the centre door got used was at the city centre set-down stops. But then they refrained from doing it on the KD-class too, even after instituting one-person operation (after ages of false starts) and even on the centre-door Olympians.

The VT class is long enough to warrant a centre and rear door, really.

Rock of Gibraltar

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Looking very well. Photos on Tony Murrays site. Note the centre plug type doors.

http://www.dublinbus.cc/gt1.htm

Ah centre doors that's great news, a prelude to tag-on tag-off leap cards perhaps? Here's hoping.

Edit: From http://www.irishbuses.com/GT.html

*Pre-wired for smart card readers both sides of the middle doors.

Savage

markpb

miller50841 wrote: »

Centre doors will be used as an exit only its to try and speed up the loading and unloading just a shame they didn't do this on the try axle (vt) as it takes ages to unload and then load

So they've somehow managed to overcome the Labour court ruling saying that drivers could not be compelled to operate the middle doors? I'd love to see it happen but the cynic in me says they'll never be used. (Except maybe by Alex )

miller50841 wrote: »

Don't see the monitors lasting very long either people will just wreck them.

Why are people in Dublin so pessimistic about their own city? It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Even the glass etching that used to make DBs buses look so worn has been more or less entirely solved. Monitors can be made very resilient these days, I think they'll be okay.

foggy_lad

miller50841 wrote: »

Wheels and tyres are same size just body design puts you off a bit.

Centre doors will be used as an exit only its to try and speed up the loading and unloading just a shame they didn't do this on the try axle (vt) as it takes ages to unload and then load

Have you some information that all drivers on these buses will definitely be using the centre doors?

markpb wrote: »

So they've somehow managed to overcome the Labour court ruling saying that drivers could not be compelled to operate the middle doors? I'd love to see it happen but the cynic in me says they'll never be used. (Except maybe by Alex )

Ah yes it's the fault of the Labour Court not the drivers who decided en mass to not use the centre doors.

Why are people in Dublin so pessimistic about their own city? It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Even the glass etching that used to make DBs buses look so worn has been more or less entirely solved. Monitors can be made very resilient these days, I think they'll be okay.

It wont be long till some skanger puts their head into one of those monitors while falling down the stairs and claims for hundreds of thousands in damages for the ensueing brain damage.

AngryLips

markpb wrote: »

Why are people in Dublin so pessimistic about their own city? It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Even the glass etching that used to make DBs buses look so worn has been more or less entirely solved. Monitors can be made very resilient these days, I think they'll be okay.

I remember the doomsayers on here crying that, Dublin being the exception to every other European city, the RTPI boards would be vandalised the moment they went up (because Boombridge is a kip and the Red Line is full of scumbags) :rolleyes:

monument

AngryLips wrote: »

markpb wrote: »

Why are people in Dublin so pessimistic about their own city? It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Even the glass etching that used to make DBs buses look so worn has been more or less entirely solved. Monitors can be made very resilient these days, I think they'll be okay.

I remember the doomsayers on here crying that, Dublin being the exception to every other European city, the RTPI boards would be vandalised the moment they went up (because Boombridge is a kip and the Red Line is full of scumbags) :rolleyes:

And every Dublin Bike is now in a canal or river!

carlmango11

Don't suppose there's any LED screens to display the upcoming stop? I thought they trialed this a few years back - I assume it's not going ahead on all routes?

coylemj

I notice on that website that there is mention of the Dublin Bus S.I.P.T.U. bus design committee who went to 'inspect' the new vehicles - have DB given over the job of designing the new generation bus to Jack O'Connor and the lads down in Liberty Hall?

What about a Dublin Bus users design committee - there's more commuters than drivers or doesn't anyone in DB realise this or care what their customers think?

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

So they've somehow managed to overcome the Labour court ruling saying that drivers could not be compelled to operate the middle doors? I'd love to see it happen but the cynic in me says they'll never be used. (Except maybe by Alex )

No need to chant the words of "We shall overcome" at all....:)

The Labour Court's long standing judgement still stands,with,if anything,somewhat more importance attached to it given the marked deterioration in Bus Stop/Roadside infrastructure in the decades since the original hearings.

Wrongly positioned Bus Stops,incorrectly or unmarked Bus Bays,insufficient manouvering space....

(Pop along to Stop 847 outbound at Leeson St Bridge any busy evening,and observe what happens when more than a single bus attempts to operate here...plenty of Kassel Kerb space,plenty of marked Bus bay...plus a row of bicycle racks directly outside where the door of any subsequent bus is.....wildly dangerous as it is and most certainly a total NO-NO for Centre Door use on a 46A :rolleyes: )

Centre Door operation itself was not the issue,but rather,compulsion to use them at all times.

Since the decision to specify the Centre Door in the VG is an NTA one,this has now committed the same authority to taking the necessary steps to allow for the SAFE operation of the new vehicles.

No operator,public or private,is,in todays litigious climate,going to introduce a system of operation which can not safely be sustained over the totality of the route.

If,However,the NTA are prepared to sign off on a blanket assurance of Safety and freedom from being held responsible for mishaps involving Centre Door use,then Dublin Bus drivers will be queuing up outside the NTA's HQ to demonstrate their prowess.

Personally I think the Dual Door is a fantastic system and it's lack of use in Dublin stands as mute testimony to successive City Administrations which could not give a shytte about Public Transport operators OR customers.

It's TOTALLY up to the NTA/DCC now......lets see if they've thought this one through a little better than they did with Taxi Rank space

AlekSmart

coylemj wrote: »

I notice on that website that there is mention of the Dublin Bus S.I.P.T.U. bus design committee who went to 'inspect' the new vehicles - have DB given over the job of designing the new generation bus to Jack O'Connor and the lads down in Liberty Hall?

What about a Dublin Bus users design committee - there's more commuters than drivers or doesn't anyone in DB realise this or care what their customers think?

It's worthwhile noting that although the photography appears to have been SIPTU based,the actual Bus Design SubCommittee is comprised of Driver Reps from Both Unions and Dublin Bus Senior Engineering Executives.

Sadly,the actual broad strokes of PSV design are quite strongly restricted by EU Design & Construction guidelines as well as the ever present Health N Safety regulations,which ensures that Bus Body Manufacturers offer broadly similar products with limited opportunity to install hammocks or reclining leather vibrating armchairs down the back upstairs...:cool:

Joshycat

Do the centre doors have a wheelchair ramp or do wheelchairs still exit from the front doors?

Terrontress

Surely the centre doors cannot be a replacement emergency exit as they are on the same side as the front door. If the bus were to tip on to that side, run up against a wall or there to be a fire to the left then both emergency exits would be impassible.

L1011

Is there still only a single staircase?

LXFlyer

Yes.

markpb

Terrontress wrote: »

Surely the centre doors cannot be a replacement emergency exit as they are on the same side as the front door. If the bus were to tip on to that side, run up against a wall or there to be a fire to the left then both emergency exits would be impassible.

I assume the windows can be used as alternate emergency exits.

joegriffinjnr

Shatter hammers to escape on off side. Buses have one staircase yes. Bear in mind that The NTA own these buses and not Dublin bus. Part of the deal is that centre doors MUST be used or the NTA can take the buses back and give them to another company.

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

Yes.

Why?? Bus that size should have two stairs. Presumably Wright would be capable of doing it seeing as they do other dual-stair buses.

LXFlyer

I'd ask you why?

The new GT class is no bigger than the existing VG class bus - it is not a tri-axle, it's a standard sized double deck bus.

Putting in a second set of stairs would just use up much needed seating capacity.

The only dual staired double deck bus in operation is the limited number "borismaster". DB, rightly in my view, tend to stick with proven designs.

monument

As others have said, this is an NTA bus on NTA spec.

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

As others have said, this is an NTA bus on NTA spec.

That may be so but I think that you'll find that the DB Chief Engineer will have the major input into the design spec given that there aren't very many mechanical engineers on the staff of the NTA.

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

It wont be long till some skanger puts their head into one of those monitors while falling down the stairs and claims for hundreds of thousands in damages for the ensueing brain damage.

Ah yes, I can see it now - some Golden Ticket holder upset at being asked for their signature decides to take it out on the monitor (once they've reached their destination of course after all their business is their priority).

Losty Dublin

parsi wrote: »

Ah yes, I can see it now - some Golden Ticket holder upset at being asked for their signature decides to take it out on the monitor (once they've reached their destination of course after all their business is their priority).

Don't forget, their assisted spouse can also lay in with a few digs over the day when they were stopped unaided by the driver on their way to collect their disability allowance after work.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

monument wrote: »

As others have said, this is an NTA bus on NTA spec.

That may be so but I think that you'll find that the DB Chief Engineer will have the major input into the design spec given that there aren't very many mechanical engineers on the staff of the NTA.

But still: NTA buses with the final say down to the NTA.

honru

Anyone know how many are being assigned to Donnybrook?

joegriffinjnr

From dublinbus.cc

Garage allocations are as follows -
Conyngham Road - 10, Harristown - 18, Summerhill - 10, Clontarf - 12, Ringsend - 9. Donnybrook - 21

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

But still: NTA buses with the final say down to the NTA.

I'm not sure what your point is?

Someone is suggesting purchasing buses that have no track record.

I'm saying that post the Bombardier era that is not what has been done and I can't see it happening again.

joegriffinjnr

Routes to benifit from new buses are:

7, 151, 4, 102, 33, 104, 1 and new route 29.

TouchingVirus

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Routes to benifit from new buses are:

7, 151, 4, 102, 33, 104, 1 and new route 29.

The 1, really? It's far less frequent than other routes with older, crappier buses like the 16 with the buses from the 90s. Wasted opportunity if you ask me.

LXFlyer

Bear in mind there will be buses cascading onto other routes as a result of these buses arriving into the fleet.

The older RV class will all be withdrawn.

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

The only dual staired double deck bus in operation is the limited number "borismaster". DB, rightly in my view, tend to stick with proven designs.

Only one in operation in the UK - you may want to look at little beyond there.... its extremely common in most other countries that use double deckers.

Adding a second stairs to an existing design is unlikely to be critically difficult.

LXFlyer

MYOB wrote: »

Only one in operation in the UK - you may want to look at little beyond there.... its extremely common in most other countries that use double deckers.

Adding a second stairs to an existing design is unlikely to be critically difficult.

But the bus is no different in size to a VG bus - it is a standard size double deck. It is not a tri-axle.

All fitting a second staircase would do is unecessarily reduce seating capacity even further given there are now centre doors fitted.

It is frankly totally unnecesary.

honru

Sounds good, now I just hope those middle doors are used.

devnull

Is that an RTPI display at the front of the upper deck or not?

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

But the bus is no different in size to a VG bus - it is a standard size double deck. It is not a tri-axle.

All fitting a second staircase would do is unecessarily reduce seating capacity even further given there are now centre doors fitted.

It is frankly totally unnecesary.

A second stairs allows for much quicker egress regardless of the size - a triaxle isn't *that* much bigger.

If DB want to seriously reduce dwell times, second stairs (and a flat fare....) are fairly important.

n97 mini

SIPTU design committee? Presumably they designed the stations on the Maynooth line where staff get central heating, toilets, colour TV, broadband, tea and coffee making facilities, whereas customers get one or two bus shelters per platform?

Cookie_Monster

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Routes to benifit from new buses are:

7, 151, 4, 102, 33, 104, 1 and new route 29.

:eek::eek::eek:

7 to get new buses first rather than be one of the last routes to keep the oldest ones in the fleet. How about that!

miller50841

honru wrote: »

Anyone know how many are being assigned to Donnybrook?

Ment to be 21 as far as I know

miller50841

Having the centre doors is a great idea but 1 huge problem is space to pull in along side the path safely while leaving no gap that people will trip and fall.

Can see claims rising with these

The centre doors on the older ones use to lock the bus out of gear and because they weren't maintained this nearly always ment the bus had to be turned off and back on to get it back into gear.
This won't be a problem as there are door brakes now which doesn't kick out the gears like before back in the day.

If the company wants to protect its revenue it will have to deploy a hell of a lot more ticket checkers when these buses come in.

Cookie_Monster

miller50841 wrote: »

Having the centre doors is a great idea but 1 huge problem is space to pull in along side the path safely while leaving no gap that people will trip and fall.

They need a little sign that say
"we are not responsible for your inability to operate as a person, should you fall it's your problem, not ours"

but I won't hold my breath...

bk

Yes, who says a bus has to pull right up to the footpath?

I often see buses stop one to two meters from the footpath, due to obstructions and people have to step on the road to get to and from the bus, even with single door buses. I really don't see how a second door is any different.

CIE

bk wrote: »

Yes, who says a bus has to pull right up to the footpath?

It's usually the ones with memories of the old trams, which couldn't do that. Trolleybus proponents also would tout the "pulls right up to the footpath" thing.

bk wrote: »

I often see buses stop one to two meters from the footpath, due to obstructions and people have to step on the road to get to and from the bus, even with single door buses. I really don't see how a second door is any different.

Used to have that happen all the time. Just something that's commonplace. I don't even give it a second thought. Before the new N4 opened through Palmerstown, I used to catch the 66 at the corner of Lucan Road (now Old Lucan Road) and Kennelsfort Road, with the buses at least two metres out from the path. (This is when one used to have to walk to the Kennelsfort Road bus loop near Woodfarm Drive to catch the 18.)

dfx-

TouchingVirus wrote: »

The 1, really? It's far less frequent than other routes with older, crappier buses like the 16 with the buses from the 90s. Wasted opportunity if you ask me.

Safest place for Ringsend to put them. Like when they got new EVs in 2007, which surprisingly didn't drift from the 2 or 3 until recently and still not on the Crumlin corridor or even the 15s. Ringsend doesn't operate the 16.

lxflyer wrote: »

Bear in mind there will be buses cascading onto other routes as a result of these buses arriving into the fleet.

The older RV class will all be withdrawn.

The cascading buses will draw my interest much more so than these I think. Where do Ringsend's EVs go, Conyngham Rd's AXs (and hopefully they keep AV98-103), what AVs go to Ringsend to make up for the loss of all their RVs and which AVs depart completely. I was hoping that maybe some of the Donnybrook original VTs may finally move around too, but that's unlikely if the 7 gets the new buses.

Davidth88

I was stuck that it's obvious that the staff have been asked for input to these new buses ( via their union ). However the passengers seem to have no input.

However they seem nice enough.

I would like to have seen LED signs to tell you the next stop

I didn't spot if these buses ' kneel down ' , but I assume they do.

devnull

There looks to be an RTPI display on the front of the top deck, but nobody has confirmed if it is or not.

AngryLips

bk wrote: »

Yes, who says a bus has to pull right up to the footpath?

I often see buses stop one to two meters from the footpath, due to obstructions and people have to step on the road to get to and from the bus, even with single door buses. I really don't see how a second door is any different.

Hopefully there's been no compromise on accessibility in the design of these busses so