Broken window landlord dispute - help!

generalbison

6 weeks ago I came home from holidays to find my window badly cracked. It's a double glazed window on the outer part of an apartment block. The crack is on the inside pane but appears to be have started on the INSIDE of this inside pane.

I've had issues of extreme heat in the apartment (that was not within my control) and both my window and door were closed while I was away. I assume it was caused by heat, pressure or warping of the frame somehow during this time.

I emailed my landlord to let her know immediately and she sent someone to inspect the window a few weeks later and told me I would have to pay the excess on the insurance claim. There's a clause in my lease which states: "3.18 To replace broken glass in doors and windows damaged during the tenancy" it also states "4.4 The landlord agrees to maintain the structure of the building and maintain the interior and fittings to the standard that existing at the start...".

I had no problem paying any excess on her insurance claim.

However, now she claims that her insurance won't cover the damage and that I must pay the replacement in full which is just under 2,000 and that this will NOT come out of my security deposit.

To me this sounds like she is trying to take my security deposit AND make me pay for the broken window also. I also think it sounds fishy that her insurance company wouldn't cover a damaged window when it clearly wasn't intentional or an accidental break.

What are my legal rights here?

What should I be asking my landlord for as proof of insurance?

What else should I be doing / who should I be contacting?

Any advice would be really appreciated, thanks!



Summary: Broken window in apartment, landlord wants me to pay for the replacement - what are my rights?


EDIT:
Here's more information I just found from the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2008 Act (amended in 2009)

Structural Condition
5. (1) A house to which these Regulations apply (hereinafter referred to as “the house”) shall be maintained in a proper state of structural repair.

(2) For the purposes of sub-article (1) ‘a proper state of structural repair’ means sound, internally and externally, with roof, roofing tiles and slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascia, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas maintained in good condition and repair and not defective due to dampness or otherwise.”

UPDATE 01 AUGUST!!!
I asked my landlord to provide details of the insurance claim, details of her insurance policy as well as the assessment from the glazing company of the damage (why, etc.). She refused to send me anything to do with her insurance which throws up major red flags for me.

I have contacted threshold and they are helping out now and I think this will turn into a legal battle.

Sulla Felix

"3.18 To replace broken glass in doors and windows damaged during the tenancy"

Who, in the lease, does this refer to? Post up the relevant part of the lease if you can.

Get her to get the refusal to cover in writing from the insurance company.

Threshold is always a good place to start.

Gary The Gamer

Refuse to pay. Refer her to the PRTB if she has any issues. Continue your tenancy for as long as you wish. Make sure not to pay your last months rent when leaving as this will be taken off you.

jd

2000 euro! It looks like she is going to completely replace the window, not just the glass.

generalbison

Its under the heading "Tenant Covenants" - photo below of the clause itself.

Gary The Gamer

Tenancy clauses are notoriously toothless. You can't sign away your basic tenancy rights. If you believe the broken glass was due to a defect in the glass or house yourself then it is up to your landlord to remedy the situation.

generalbison

Gary The Gamer wrote: »

Refuse to pay. Refer her to the PRTB if she has any issues. Continue your tenancy for as long as you wish. Make sure not to pay your last months rent when leaving as this will be taken off you.

Sounds like a great plan but unfortunately we just paid our last month's rent 1 week ago before we had knowledge of this.

generalbison

jd wrote: »

2000 euro! It looks like she is going to completely replace the window, not just the glass.

The reason I assume it's so much is because the quote includes the price of a cherry picker as we are not on the ground floor. However, we think the glass can also be replaced from the inside as it's a modern fitting.

L1011

generalbison wrote: »

The reason I assume it's so much is because the quote includes the price of a cherry picker as we are not on the ground floor. However, we think the glass can also be replaced from the inside as it's a modern fitting.

Its not safe to attempt to replace an upper-floor double glazing unit without someone on the outside.

Not that it affects the liability or not, though!

petethebrick

Are you mad in the head - you have no liability whatsoever for the broken window in this case. It is solely the landlord's responsibility to maintain the property and repair any structural damage. It sounds like your landlord is chancing her arm given the fact that you agreed to pay any excess over the insurance - why the hell would you have agreed to do this in the first place. You say you had no problem paying the excess -why?????

"3.18 To replace broken glass in doors and windows damaged during the tenancy" This only refers to cases where you break the glass yourself

Keep documented evidence of all your dealings including pictures of the window etc. Go to see threshold if you need to and inform the landlord that you will in no way be held responsible for any repairs. Also inform her that if your deposit is not returned in full (minus deductions for wear and tear in apartment) that you will be hauling her down to the PRTB (where you will win and get your deposit plus damages).

Funnyonion79

Hi, I'm not a tenant but wanted to tell you my experience with a broken apartment window.

My little girl was waking early because if the light coming into her bedroom in the mornings so we taped a black bin bag to the window underneath her blackout blind to block out the excess light.

Never realised that this would cause a build up of heat, resulting in a large crack across the inner pane of glass in the double glazed window.

This is my own apartment and we are on the top floor so initially my first port of call was to the management company to see if we could claim off the block insurance to have the glass replaced.

The management company said that first of all, the excess to claim off the block policy was €1500 so not worth it, but secondly, apartment windows weren't covered by the block insurance anyway - we would have to cover the cost ourselves, as our contents obviously wouldn't cover windows either. So even if someone had damaged the window by throwing a stone at it for example (i.e. If the crack occurred through circumstances outside our control, like yours did), we would have had to pay to repair it out of our own pocket.

I thought we'd have to get a cherry picker as well to get the glass fixed but rang a company in Dublin and they came out to give us a quote and said they could fix it from the inside. Only cost €200. So not sure why landlord is telling you it costs €2k but she's probably correct about the insurance not covering it.

No idea if it's you or the landlord who's responsible for the repair, but if you'd prefer to get it sorted, you could always ring the place I did and get a quote off them and pass it on to the landlord. Pm me if you way details.

petethebrick

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Hi, I'm not a tenant but wanted to tell you my experience with a broken apartment window.

[/QUOTE

Her landlord's responsible - she isn't....end of story
She shouldn't be getting quotes anywhere, this will only get her more embroiled in the argument with the landlord over responsibility.

fasttalkerchat

Should that definitely be 2000 and not 200?
Fixing the window not your problem. If the LL refuses to fix it would you want to leave or would you stay?

generalbison

UPDATE 01 AUGUST!!!
I asked my landlord to provide details of the insurance claim, details of her insurance policy, as well as the assessment from the glazing company of the damage (why, possible cause etc.). She refused to send me anything to do with her insurance which throws up major red flags for me.

I have contacted threshold and they are helping out now and I think this will turn into a legal battle.

Graces7

generalbison wrote: »

UPDATE 01 AUGUST!!!
I asked my landlord to provide details of the insurance claim, details of her insurance policy, as well as the assessment from the glazing company of the damage (why, possible cause etc.). She refused to send me anything to do with her insurance which throws up major red flags for me.

I have contacted threshold and they are helping out now and I think this will turn into a legal battle.

Well done! She was trying it on and thought you would fall for it..

generalbison

After contacting Threshold, I was advised that the Housing Regulations i posted in the OP do apply, and supercede contract law, so the landlord is liable to fix the window, and not me. I emailed my landlord to tell her that I had been advised of this and quoted the relevant regulations to her.

Her response was that that is not the legal interpretation of the statutory instrument, 534, that I'm liable for the damages yada yada yada


Think I will have to take this to the PRTB and lodge a dispute application now. But I've read it takes 8-10 months at best for that to produce a resolution
She hasn't threatened to withhold the security deposit (yet), but I can't imagine she will be forthcoming with it. Or she will nit pick every tiny possible thing on inspecting the apartment when I leave this month, to rack up the charges for "fixing" things :rolleyes:

BostonB

Photograph everything so it will be useful in 10 months time when it gets to the PRTB.

generalbison

@BostonB good advice. Will photograph every detail once the place is empty and cleaned up.

Latest is that a glazier I called came out on Saturday to have a look. He said that a cherry picker wouldn't be necessary, he can do the replacement from the inside no hassle. But wont get a quote until tomorrow due to the bank holiday. He said it would be significantly cheaper without paying for a day's cherry picker rental, like the other crowd wanted.

Landlord also sent an email today requesting me to give a key to the concierge so a guy from the property management company can come "visit" the apartment for "15 minutes" on Thursday. I wont be giving a key to anyone until the lease is up, and will just be here when the guy visits. I wonder why he is coming, as when I talked to the management company, they said they would not get involved in any landlord/tenant dispute.

generalbison

Well guess who showed up with the guy from the property management company? Only the landlord herself, flew over from the UK to inspect the apartment.

Note, she never informed me that she was coming, only the property management guy, so I believe she is in breach of the lease on that.
Also, she can't conduct the final inspection until after Ive moved out and cleaned the place, right? She went around taking notes of any tiny detail she thought she could rip off the security deposit for.
And she never told us that there would be an inspection, her words were "a visit" from the property management guy.

So angry :mad::mad::mad:

My glazier came back with a quote of €480 (a lot less than her quote of €1700!). But she insists on using the original company as they are the "preferred suppliers" of the property management company. Despite our glazier being fully accredited, and sourcing the exact same glass & spec for the replacement.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! :mad:

Going to have to step it up with the solicitor and PRTB. I just want all this to be over!

Funnyonion79

God OP - I really feel for you. The landlord is being a complete b***h!!

I hope you're documenting everything so that you have all the info when your PRTB hearing comes around.

She is being totally unreasonable - why doesn't she just pay the €480 to get the window fixed and no biggie? Why go to the bother of fighting it out, just so the "preferred supplier" can charge €2k for the same thing. That's ridiculous. Nobody is going to rule that she should've gone with the €2k company over the €480 company. She's wasting her own time and money there.

It's such a pity that it all has to end up like this. I guess you should take it that she'll keep your deposit but you will probably get it back again in a few months time, as I'm sure the PRTB will rule in your favour. Like another poster said, take videos of the place when you leave so you can prove the condition you left it in. Remember to clean the oven - they often try to say it was left dirty.

Did you get a quote for the window in writing from the company with a date on it? Just so you can prove you went to the trouble of trying to source a cheaper quote for her. Can you email or post her a copy of the quote to prove that you showed it to her and she refused it - again, so you have proof for the hearing. Otherwise, she could say she never saw the quote.

generalbison

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

I hope you're documenting everything so that you have all the info when your PRTB hearing comes around.

Documenting as much as I can yeah, but its all in emails mostly. She has refused to give contact details (address/phone) thus far, but i just got them from the estate agents that I was paying rent through.

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

She is being totally unreasonable - why doesn't she just pay the €480 to get the window fixed and no biggie? Why go to the bother of fighting it out, just so the "preferred supplier" can charge €2k for the same thing. That's ridiculous. Nobody is going to rule that she should've gone with the €2k company over the €480 company. She's wasting her own time and money there.

She is starting to sound like she might waiver here. But she wants to investigate the company we got the quote from, to see they are fit to do the job. And she wants to run it all past the original company to see if they agree that the specs are right. (Im gonna guess they say no, it aint right, as they stand to lose 1700 euro of business if someone else does it, duh!)

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Like another poster said, take videos of the place when you leave so you can prove the condition you left it in. Remember to clean the oven - they often try to say it was left dirty.

Yeah, plan to thoroughly clean the place, every inch, and take photo/video of everything after its done. Only other issue is that the walls need repainting, as they are a bit grubby. A combination of the fact she was a smoker so walls were covered in grime when I moved in, and when I attempted to clean em once, it made matters worse. I dunno if I should do it, or let her deduct the cost of paint from the deposit.

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Did you get a quote for the window in writing from the company with a date on it? Just so you can prove you went to the trouble of trying to source a cheaper quote for her. Can you email or post her a copy of the quote to prove that you showed it to her and she refused it - again, so you have proof for the hearing. Otherwise, she could say she never saw the quote.

Yeah I have the quote, with exact sepcifications of the like-for-like replacement etc. Sent that to her in an email, and she's still resistent, and wants to investigate the company and specs provided as i said above.

fasttalkerchat

At this stage I'm surprised you let her in. I would tell her that she is no longer welcome and request mutual termination of the lease will full deposit returned if you will pay moving costs.
If she accepts it would be for the best because nothing good can come of you continuing to pay for such shoddy service.

trishasaffron

generalbison wrote: »

Yeah, plan to thoroughly clean the place, every inch, and take photo/video of everything after its done. Only other issue is that the walls need repainting, as they are a bit grubby. A combination of the fact she was a smoker so walls were covered in grime when I moved in, and when I attempted to clean em once, it made matters worse. I dunno if I should do it, or let her deduct the cost of paint from the deposit. But she will probably get the finest paint costing 2 grand a bucket, and fly in italian artists to re-do it for her :rolleyes: She doesnt give a monkeys about the expense of stuff.

Depending on how long you are there this would be regarded as fair wear and tear and not your responsibility.

I just moved out of 3 year rental and the landlord really wanted the place "as new" but even he recognised that touch up painting was his job. He made me clean and polish so that the place was cleaner than anything I've every seen!! But it was worth it to get the deposit back without going to PRTB/Court.

Landlord sounds like a wagon - happy to take your rent but not so happy to take her responsibilities.

generalbison

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

At this stage I'm surprised you let her in. I would tell her that she is no longer welcome and request mutual termination of the lease will full deposit returned if you will pay moving costs.
If she accepts it would be for the best because nothing good can come of you continuing to pay for such shoddy service.

Was completely surprised she turned up (with her own keys no less. is that dodgy?), and she just barged straight in before I even knew who she was, as this is the first time we met!

Moving to a new place this weekend, lease ends 31st.

I can ask the solicitor tomorrow if we have any recourse in getting rent back, early termination etc (along with a million other questions)

generalbison

trishasaffron wrote: »

Depending on how long you are there this would be regarded as fair wear and tear and not your responsibility.

I just moved out of 3 year rental and the landlord really wanted the place "as new" but even he recognised that touch up painting was his job. He made me clean and polish so that the place was cleaner than anything I've every seen!! But it was worth it to get the deposit back without going to PRTB/Court.

Interesting. I told the landlady about the walls quite a while ago, and she agreed in email to cover the cost of the paint if I did the painting. But I never got around to it unfortunately, my own lazy fault there.

So that email could come in handy if she tries to claim for any paint.

petethebrick

generalbison wrote: »

Id almost be willing to call it a day and pay the 480, if she would just back down, be sensible and let the cheaper glazier do the job. But I worry about what phantom stuff she is going to claim from the deposit.

Stop being so silly - don't pay her anything!! Doing so would appear like an admission of responsibility, which you aren't. Paying off blackmailing landlords like this on;ly encourages them to attempt to rip off the rest of us tenants!


Be firm, tell her you aren't paying anything and tell her you want your deposit back. Demand receipts for any cleaning/repairs she deducts for.

fasttalkerchat

Pay nothing. If you haven't paid this month's rent; don't. You can be sure she will take your deposit regardless. If you use a removal company get a receipt and claim for that should she try to go to court. Take plenty of photos before you move out.

ABajaninCork

Landlady lives in London - right? Have you been deducting the 20% tax she should be paying?

Gary The Gamer

generalbison wrote: »

Going to have to step it up with the solicitor and PRTB. I just want all this to be over!

Seriously, don't waste your money on a solicitor. You won't be able to claim the charges back. Make a complaint the PRTB to the visit without prior notification. Get that in now. When the deposit is not forthcoming stick in your claim and be ready to wait it out. Don't stress over this as ultimately it is not worth it. You will probably win so just relax and move on.

Arciphel

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Landlady lives in London - right? Have you been deducting the 20% tax she should be paying?

Oh yes 100% this!

generalbison

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Landlady lives in London - right? Have you been deducting the 20% tax she should be paying?

This came up in my last place, so I was on top of it when I moved in. She organised for an estate agent to take all the rent payment for the entire tenancy, thus skirting around the tax issue of living abroad.