Immaculate deception: 'I don't regret tricking my boyfriend into having kids'

Millicent

Millicent wrote: »

As she should. Neither partner should be forced into bring a child into the world that they don't want. That said, both parties are responsible for contraception if both feel so strongly about it.

Shoulds are all well and good, only the women has a choice once a pregnancy has started.

Millicent

Deleted User wrote: »

Shoulds are all well and good, only the women has a choice once a pregnancy has started.

Because she will carry it for nine months. It's an important distinction.

Millicent

Millicent wrote: »

Because she will carry it for nine months. It's an important distinction.

Yeah but the "neither partner should be forced into bring a child into the world that they don't want" rings a little hollow.

Millicent

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah but the "neither partner should be forced into bring a child into the world that they don't want" rings a little hollow.

Well, carry on taking responsibility for your own contraception and you should have nothing to worry about then.

kincsem

“I was just coming to the end of my marriage and he was in a similar situation with his wife. He was looking for somewhere to go."

Nice people. They deserve each other.

Millicent

Millicent wrote: »

Well, carry on taking responsibility for your own contraception and you should have nothing to worry about then.

There's that wonderful word "should" again.

Gandhi

kincsem wrote: »

“I was just coming to the end of my marriage and he was in a similar situation with his wife. He was looking for somewhere to go."

Nice people. They deserve each other.

Problem is that the baby did nothing to deserve to be in the middle of it.

Stheno

I think this is possibly the most dispicable of devious behaviours women can use against men, using their bodies to entrap them into years of at the very least maintenance, or worse marriage.

It might have worked out in this case, but it's an appalling example.

Wibbs

le la rat wrote: »

Brilliant alright

kylith wrote: »

What a fantastic slogan!

Ah shucks *blushes*:o:o

theg81der wrote: »

The pill failure rate is 0.2% per year - says it all.

Well it may say something. Surprise pregnancies tend to happen a lot less with women on the implant/injection. This is not to suggest any underhandedness BTW, taking a pill at the same time every day, with ignorance about any number of other drug interactions can make a huge difference(one ex of mine on the pill was described heavy duty antibiotics yet the doctor didn't ask nor take into account her contraceptive choices. I did and we went back to the oul willy latex ski mask). That said I would suspect in some and I do mean some cases there may be other things in play.

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

It's mental how different people run in different circles. I have yet to know one single woman who, even if I was incredibly paranoid and suspicious, could be suspected of doing anything like this.

Oh sure TTaB, birds of a feather flock together and all that and it's well possible there's some background selection bias going on with those peeps I've known.

How would you know if it's a subconscious thing for some women?

Because I would know the women in question pretty well and they'd not be the "I'm gonna trap a man" types at all. Quite the opposite. I just noted that these well clued in and bloody intelligent women had a statistical oddity with regard to falling pregnant by mistake in their 30's These were women with long standing very healthy sex lives with barely a blip, yet when they reached a certain stage in life suddenly they fell pregnant? It didn't quite equate for me. Though it may make sense from a biologically/evolutionary standpoint. The oft quoted notion that women hit their sexual peak in their 30's and are more into vaginal sex in that same timeframe might well plug into it*. The body/brain/mind is thinking WTF, you've not had a child yet? So that may well influence them at a more basic level and that influence may make them more casual about the risk of pregnancy compared to a 19 year old with two decades to decide yay or nay ahead of them. In a way not consciously obvious to them at the time.

BTW I've seen similar in men too. Childless guys knocking on the door of 40 who seem to get notably blase about the whole "oh god she might get up the duff". Shít looking back I felt it myself to a small, but noticeable degree while in a longterm relationship in my late 30's. I was very "meh" about the contraceptive thing, even though on the surface I was "oooh jesus nooooooo". At 25 I was wearing the johnnie, attached to a wet suit and I was *ahem* pulling out before the horses left the stable, even when I knew and defo trusted my partner was on the pill/coil. The make a baby mindset is a blood strong one in both genders, or can be and that's where the grey area can kick in.





*obviously I'm drawing broad strokes here. It does not make it any kind of rule.

Millicent

Deleted User wrote: »

There's that wonderful word "should" again.

That's personal responsibility for you.

Millicent

Millicent wrote: »

That's personal responsibility for you.

Well not really. Man does everything right and there's still a chance of a kid being born whether he wants it or not. Woman does everything right and there's still a chance of conception. She however always has a way out, the man doesn't.

Millicent

Deleted User wrote: »

Well not really. Man does everything right and there's still a chance of a kid being born whether he wants it or not. Woman does everything right and there's still a chance of conception. She however always has a way out, the man doesn't.

Welcome to the world of being an adult. Shit sucks sometimes, dude. What can I tell you?

Millicent

Millicent wrote: »

Welcome to the world of being an adult. Shit sucks sometimes, dude. What can I tell you?

Excellent response.

mackg

Onixx wrote: »

The two women I know whom I suspect of this (with good reason - it's not just a hunch out of thin air) were 19 and 24. So they don't fit into the "tick tick tick desperation" bracket.

There are still quite a few girls who simply want to finish school find someone and settle down. They may be in a relationship of one or two years at that age and find their partner isn't interested in the whole family thing, like most guys in their early twenties, and then a small irrational subset of those women may pull a stunt like this.

With the whole accident thing when on the pill there is definitely a chance that some women may claim it failed when they simply forgot (genuinely) to take it if they were worried about their partners reaction to the news.

Millicent

Deleted User wrote: »

Excellent response.

Why thank you, good sir. Validation on the internet. It's worth its weight in gold.

Millicent

Millicent wrote: »

Why thank you, good sir. Validation on the internet. It's worth its weight in gold.

Well why else would we be online right now?

Millicent

Deleted User wrote: »

Well why else would we be online right now?

For the craic? Why do you think we're online right now?

strobe

Millicent wrote: »

There are a number of contraceptives available but sadly all at present (bar condoms) become the responsibility of women -- the coil, the implant, the cap, the injection etc.

What we should see more of is allowing men to have vasectomies without the requirement that they first have children. However, the fail rate for vasectomy is about 2 in every 100 so condoms or some other contraceptive should also be used.

There is a male contraceptive injection currently in end stage clinical trials in India (which means it could be out for general use {in India in anyways} within a couple of years), and which is soon to begin clinical trials in the USA, which is very promising.

Takes 15 minutes to get the injection, lasts for ten+ years, has none of the side effects associated with hormonal contraception or risks associated with vasectomy, has been proving 100% effective in clinical trials, and is easily reversible with another simple injection.

It's called Reversible Inhibition of Sperm Under Guidance (RISUG) and could possibly put a permanent end to this whole 'baby trap' business.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/04/ff_vasectomy/

http://digitaljournal.com/article/307482

Sounds bitchin'.

Millicent

strobe wrote: »

There is a male contraceptive injection currently in end stage clinical trials in India (which means it could be out for general use {in India in anyways} within a couple of years), and which is soon to begin clinical trials in the USA, which is very promising.

Takes 15 minutes to get the injection, lasts for ten+ years, has none of the side effects associated with hormonal contraception or risks associated with vasectomy, has been proving 100% effective in clinical trials, and is easily reversible with another simple injection.

It's called Reversible Inhibition of Sperm Under Guidance (RISUG) and could possibly put a permanent end to this whole 'baby trap' business.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/04/ff_vasectomy/

http://digitaljournal.com/article/307482

Sounds bitchin'.

I've heard of this for quite a few years now and would love to see it introduced. Would give much greater choice to couples and allow men to take their fertility more actively into their own hands. Could only be a great introduction -- the sooner the better!

Millicent

Millicent wrote: »

For the craic? Why do you think we're online right now?

Was meant to be a light-hearted comment, I obviously misread the room.

Millicent

Deleted User wrote: »

Was meant to be a light-hearted comment, I obviously misread the room.

Sorry -- tis late! I misread you. Apologies.

theg81der

Oh and another interesting point -

While I was waiting for my hubby to make a decision about whether he wanted a child or not I did discuss this with other women and all of them said would you not just "you know accidents do hapen lol" or said out right to trick him. Seemed to be an assumption that this was a normal part of life and men sometimes don`t know whats good for them or something - I was horrified and told all of them I didn`t want a child with someone who ddn`t want one.

MetalDog

millymash12 wrote: »

Shocking yahoo article


http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/immaculate-deception-i-don-t-regret-tricking-my-boyfriend-into-having-kids.html


Your thoughts?

My thoughts? Selfish bitch. People like her are good advertisments for getting a vasectomy. Thankfully only a small minority of headcases think like her, but the sooner they bring out the "male pill" the better.

AudreyHepburn

What selfish thing to do....no-one should be forced into such a life changing scenario without knowing or without being given the choice. Ok he wanted the baby this time, but if he hadn't what then?

But with the attitude shown to Fathers, and men in general these days, I suppose this article shouldn't be all that surprising. It's why I am slow to read any women's mags or articles re men by women anymore.

I think sometimes women forget that men are thinking, feeling human beings with wants and needs too. They are not just there for our entertainment and to help us procreate.

Funny thing is if a man forced a woman to have a child he'd be treated like a criminal....but when a woman does it...well...a lot of the comments seem to be making somewhat light of it.

ash23

Millicent wrote: »

I know a few Turkish tummy babies. I have also spoken with quite a few people who were unaware and not advised by their doctor that taking a certain medication could totally prevent their pill from working.

Both partners need to take responsibility for contraception so a condom is always a good idea, if even to protect against STDs.

I was at the doctor this week and given an antibiotic. She asked at the start of the consultation if I was on medication and I told her the pill.
Handed me the prescription and then I asked if it would interfere with the pill. I was told "probably not but if you really don't want to take any chances, use extra precautions". It was a 3 day antibiotic. I asked how long I needed to use extra precautions and was told 7 days.
I had to go back to a locum as the antibiotics didn't work. Again I was asked if I was taking medication and said the pill. Prescription was written for another antibiotic and not a mention was made of it interfering with the pill or taking extra precautions. But when I read the leaflet in the box it said it might.

So, had I not been caught rotten before (with a pregnancy at 19) I wouldn't have pushed for that information, would have accepted the script and taken the tablets and not used additional precautions. Total length of both antibiotics is almost 2 weeks.
2 weeks of possible pregnancy.


I detest the idea of anyone being tricked into a pregnancy. I got pregnant because I missed a pill and insisted on a condom and my "partner" declined to tell me the condom had split and chanced his arm. he fecked off and I've raised the child on my own.

But I hate the attitude that every unplanned pregnancy is the woman trying to trap the man.
My childs father accused me of the same. He said "but I thought you were on the pill". I said I was but anytime I'd been sick or missed one I made him wear a condom. he said "ooooh, it must have been that time the condom split. Well, I don't want it".
No mention of him trying to trap me into having his baby. Because he wasn't. he was just being careless. But at a cost to me and my life and my future.

Scanlas The 2nd

Millicent wrote: »

Well, carry on taking responsibility for your own contraception and you should have nothing to worry about then.

That sounds like "victim blaming" to some people.

Millicent

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

That sounds like "victim blaming" to some people.

No it doesn't.

Scanlas The 2nd

Millicent wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

That sounds like "victim blaming" to some people.

No it doesn't.

I was under the assumption that giving advice to potential victims to avoid harm was "victim blaming". The logic being we should focus our effor preventing the perpetrator commuting the crime rather than the victim.

28064212

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I was under the assumption that giving advice to potential victims to avoid harm was "victim blaming". The logic being we should focus our effor preventing the perpetrator commuting the crime rather than the victim.

Contraception is a two-way responsibility. You're not a victim if you shift all the responsibility to someone who, it turns out, is irresponsible. If the boyfriend in the OP didn't want kids, he should have worn a condom everytime they had sex, or gotten a vasectomy.

You're only a victim if the other person interferes with your contraception (e.g. pin holes in condoms, "sperm-jacking")

LuckyLloyd

Hmm, I get the feeling that the groupthink being firmly on one side of the fence (correctly in my view mind) is preventing the opposite opinion being voiced. I think this attitude does exist out there as the clock ticks to one extent or the other. That said, this is part of a complex general issue - modern western society has delivered lower birth rates per head of population and older average ages for marriage, etc than at any time in human history. Scenarios where a woman might be desperate to have a child but can't get a stable relationship in place to do it weren't anywhere near as prevelant in times past. This obviously isn't the answer mind (there are chemical answers out there), but it is a valid societal issue imo.

ash23

In the case described I think that the husband was very wrong to ignore the massive issue of her wanting a child and him not and to refuse to communicate with her about it. They had been together for a really long time, she was upfront about what she wanted and he was imo, pr!cking her around, knowing she was getting older and him time to conceive was getting more limited.

However, what she did was also very wrong. On so many levels.

I think she should have had the coil removed, told him that contraception was now his concern and waited to see how diligent he was about it. If he was very against conceiving then he would have made sure to use condoms and she would have known where he was at with the idea and should have ended the relationship. If he was lax and lazy about the contraception then he clearly wasn't too concerned and if she got pregnant then he knew the chances he was taking.

Of course, it should never have to come to that because they should've been able to discuss it like normal people. :rolleyes:

who_me

Boombastic wrote: »

Are the pill and condoms the only type of contraception available in Ireland?:pac:

No, there's also football, body odour, and soap operas. Oh, and Catholicism.

I'm surprised we manage to have any babies in this country. Maybe our devious Irish girlfriends are sneaking babies in from abroad and tricking us!?! I always had a hunch Abdul-Mahmoud might not be mine...

Scanlas The 2nd

28064212 wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I was under the assumption that giving advice to potential victims to avoid harm was "victim blaming". The logic being we should focus our effor preventing the perpetrator commuting the crime rather than the victim.

Contraception is a two-way responsibility. You're not a victim if you shift all the responsibility to someone who, it turns out, is irresponsible. If the boyfriend in the OP didn't want kids, he should have worn a condom everytime they had sex, or gotten a vasectomy.

You're only a victim if the other person interferes with your contraception (e.g. pin holes in condoms, "sperm-jacking")

If a woman lies about being on the pill her spouse is being tricked. He is a victim.

kylith

EMF2010 wrote: »

I really really can NOT see how it might happen. I'm a woman in my thirties and I think that doing this is an utterly selfish and cowardly act. This is a case of forcing your* will upon someone else and deciding that you know what is best for them. The sheer arrogance of that is breathtaking.

Yes, as a woman in my thirties I'm aware that if I want to have kids I need to do it in the next few years. Given that I am inclined towards having kids I've already looked into how to have a child by myself and you know what - it's not that complicated. Accidents do happen but there is NO excuse for doing something like this deliberately.

*generic you

I've just turned thirty, have always wanted kids, and can see how a woman would do this, but I wouldn't. I'd rather break up and go to a sperm bank than force a man to have a child he didn't want.

I was horrified when, while discussing kids while I was with my ex, a male family member advised me to 'just get pregnant'. Well, I couldn't believe that a member of my family would advise me to do something so underhanded and devious. That said, I think that that's what his missus did in order to keep him around; she got pregnant remarkably early in their relationship.

Leia Thankful Skirmish wrote: »

Do you understand how the pill works? Missing one pill can be enough to let you ovulate.

Missing one pill on just the right day, at just the right interval before having sex for the egg to be viable, and not using another form of contraception, coupled with the fact that women who have been on the pill are usually told that it can take from a few weeks up to six months while their fertility returns to normal makes any claims of 'I forgot my pill the day we had sex and I got pregnant' highly suspect to me.

I've been taking the pill for 13 years, forgotten to take it a few times, had sex, didn't get pregnant. Had a gippy belly after taking it, didn't get pregnant. Vomited, didn't get pregnant. Took it outside of the window of time I was allotted, didn't get pregnant. Getting pregnant can take weeks or months of trying for people who want to get pregnant. If a woman claims to have forgotten to take one pill and gets pregnant then either she's got amazing ovaries, her partner's got the most badass sperm ever, or something dodgy's going on.

28064212

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

If a woman lies about being on the pill her spouse is being tricked. He is a victim.

Does he have a signed contract stating that she is 100% responsible for contraception. Does he check that she takes her contraception at the correct time everyday? Does he check every medicine that she takes to ensure no possible interactions?

who_me

token101 wrote: »

Surely that can't be true? Sure how would you go about proving your not the father? Taking the child to a doctor out of sight of the mother? Seems a bit ridiculous. Why doesn't the state step in there and just have mandatory, free (or a relatively small cost) DNA tests for people accused.

A friend of mine involved in an awkward unwanted pregnancy situation checked it up with a solicitor (or at least he claims he did, so feel free to take it with a dollop of salt).

IIRC, he said if the father requested a DNS test and the mother refused (remembering they might be co-habiting, or even a couple. The baby could have been the result of a one-night stand), that would likely negate the mother's claim.

I don't know if any of that's true, I'm just passing on nth hand information.

Scanlas The 2nd

28064212 wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

If a woman lies about being on the pill her spouse is being tricked. He is a victim.

Does he have a signed contract stating that she is 100% responsible for contraception. Does he check that she takes her contraception at the correct time everyday? Does he check every medicine that she takes to ensure no possible interactions?

He's been tricked, he's a victim, simple as.

ash23

who_me wrote: »

A friend of mine involved in an awkward unwanted pregnancy situation checked it up with a solicitor (or at least he claims he did, so feel free to take it with a dollop of salt).

IIRC, he said if the father requested a DNS test and the mother refused (remembering they might be co-habiting, or even a couple. The baby could have been the result of a one-night stand), that would likely negate the mother's claim.

I don't know if any of that's true, I'm just passing on nth hand information.

As far as I know it goes like this.

If the mother wants maintenance then the suspected father can request a DNA test. I don't think he has to pay maintenance in the meantime but the maintenance would be back dated if the child is his.
If the mother wants nothing from the father and denies the child is his, the man who thinks he is the father cannot force her to have a DNA test done.

nibtrix

ash23 wrote: »

They had been together for a really long time, she was upfront about what she wanted and he was imo, pr!cking her around, knowing she was getting older and him time to conceive was getting more limited.

According to the article the only time they ever discussed it she sat him down and said "I think I'm pregnant". He promptly bolted and disappeared for a year. I think he made his views perfectly clear by doing that!

Once he came back it seems never to have been mentioned. She had the coil removed and tried to conceive for 18 months (!!!) without telling him, so clearly they didn't discuss it at all.

Boombastic

le la rat wrote: »

Its bad but at least she was going out with him years. Id think of her as an awful b if she was only with him a short time

I think it's worse she was going out with him for years before she done this.....he probably thought he could trust her

Originally Posted by ash23
They had been together for a really long time, she was upfront about what she wanted and he was imo, pr!cking her around, knowing she was getting older and him time to conceive was getting more limited.

If she wants a child so badly, what was stopping her going out and finding a man who actually wanted to be a father to her child?

kylith

kylith wrote: »

Missing one pill on just the right day, at just the right interval before having sex for the egg to be viable, and not using another form of contraception, coupled with the fact that women who have been on the pill are usually told that it can take from a few weeks up to six months while their fertility returns to normal makes any claims of 'I forgot my pill the day we had sex and I got pregnant' highly suspect to me.

I've been taking the pill for 13 years, forgotten to take it a few times, had sex, didn't get pregnant. Had a gippy belly after taking it, didn't get pregnant. Vomited, didn't get pregnant. Took it outside of the window of time I was allotted, didn't get pregnant. Getting pregnant can take weeks or months of trying for people who want to get pregnant. If a woman claims to have forgotten to take one pill and gets pregnant then either she's got amazing ovaries, her partner's got the most badass sperm ever, or something dodgy's going on.

Do you understand how the pill works? It doesn't matter about timings, because women on the pill don't have normal cycles. If you miss a pill and ovulate, any sex you have in the next few days could result in pregnancy. There's no way of knowing how much chance someone has of ovulating if they miss one pill. Sure, it's more likely they won't, but by no means is it impossible or even all that unlikely, depending on what type of pill it is.

You not getting pregnant despite taking the pill badly means absolutely nothing other than you were lucky. It means absolutely nothing that some women have difficulties getting pregnant - many women don't and it only takes a small slip-up to get pregnant. One of my college friends had sex on the same day she had a very upset stomach and she got pregnant. She had an abortion. No way did she want that to happen.

That's total rubbish about fertility after the pill, BTW. In some cases, yes, it can take a while, but in many cases it can only be a week or two. I was ovulating normally a month after coming off the pill. My mum got pregnant with my sister right after coming off the pill. None of this stuff is as incredibly unlikely as you seem to think it is.

Boombastic

Leia Thankful Skirmish wrote: »

Do you understand how the pill works? It doesn't matter about timings, because women on the pill don't have normal cycles. If you miss a pill and ovulate, any sex you have in the next few days could result in pregnancy. There's no way of knowing how much chance someone has of ovulating if they miss one pill. Sure, it's more likely they won't, but by no means is it impossible or even all that unlikely, depending on what type of pill it is.

You not getting pregnant despite taking the pill badly means absolutely nothing other than you were lucky. It means absolutely nothing that some women have difficulties getting pregnant - many women don't and it only takes a small slip-up to get pregnant. One of my college friends had sex on the same day she had a very upset stomach and she got pregnant. She had an abortion. No way did she want that to happen.

That's total rubbish about fertility after the pill, BTW. In some cases, yes, it can take a while, but in many cases it can only be a week or two. I was ovulating normally a month after coming off the pill. My mum got pregnant with my sister right after coming off the pill. None of this stuff is as incredibly unlikely as you seem to think it is.

Her stomach mustn't have been that upset & who in this day and age doesn't know a dodgy tummy can affect the pill - if your on it you make it your business to find out these things

Millicent

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

He's been tricked, he's a victim, simple as.

In this case, I have condemned the woman. The man in this case was tricked into fathering the child, quite coldly and calculating, by a manipulative, selfish woman. He is a victim.

However, what are calling "victim blaming" was me advocating that men who are worried about impregnating a woman take responsibility for their own fertility. That's sensible advice, not blaming the father in the article. I was talking about when accidents happen and you seem to be interpreting me incorrectly.

Boombastic

Boombastic wrote: »

Her stomach mustn't have been that upset & who in this day and age doesn't know a dodgy tummy can affect the pill - if your on it you make it your business to find out these things

She did know. She'd already had sex, shortly before she got sick. I think she may have even gone for the morning after pill and it didn't work.

Millicent

Boombastic wrote: »

Her stomach mustn't have been that upset & who in this day and age doesn't know a dodgy tummy can affect the pill - if your on it you make it your business to find out these things

I've met plenty of women who wouldn't. In fairness, doctors, IME, don't spend a lot of time educating people on the risks.

Two other points: it doesn't have to be a very bad stomach upset for the pill to be affected. Slight diarrhoea could do it.

Also, people are human and as such flawed. If she did know, it's entirely possible with a full mind or busy week to forget something as minor as a mild stomach upset. It happens. There doesn't need to be any calculation or malevelonce involved for an accident to occur. The fact that she had an abortion would seem to reinforce that it was completely unintended.

Madam_X

MetalDog wrote: »

Thankfully only a small minority of headcases think like her.

Amen. Some folks seem to want it to be countless women.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But with the attitude shown to Fathers, and men in general these days, I suppose this article shouldn't be all that surprising.

No it is. Such women are a minority.

It's why I am slow to read any women's mags or articles re men by women anymore.

I'm not always slow to read them, because I don't think all women who write for magazines are out to attack men, the way I'm not, and you're not.

I think sometimes women forget that men are thinking, feeling human beings with wants and needs too. They are not just there for our entertainment and to help us procreate.

I don't know any woman who thinks like that about men. Do you? There are arseholes in existence unfortunately - why does it have to be gendered?

ash23 wrote: »

I hate the attitude that every unplanned pregnancy is the woman trying to trap the man.

It's horrible and depressing, particularly when held by women.

If a guy has any fears whatsoever, buy a pack of condoms - don't leave it all up to the woman. The pill is not 100% effective.

Millicent

Millicent wrote: »

I've met plenty of women who wouldn't. In fairness, doctors, IME, don't spend a lot of time educating people on the risks.

Two other points: it doesn't have to be a very bad stomach upset for the pill to be affected. Slight diarrhoea could do it.

Also, people are human and as such flawed. If she did know, it's entirely possible with a full mind or busy week to forget something as minor as a mild stomach upset. It happens. There doesn't need to be any calculation or malevelonce involved for an accident to occur. The fact that she had an abortion would seem to reinforce that it was completely unintended.

It actually scares me when I'm talking to women in their early 20s and they say they're not drinking because they're on antibiotics and I'll mention the pill and they start panicking.

Boombastic

Deleted User wrote: »

It actually scares me when I'm talking to women in their early 20s and they say they're not drinking because they're on antibiotics and I'll mention the pill and they start panicking.

If they get pregnant because of this then it is not an accident, it is stupidity

Millicent

Boombastic wrote: »

If they get pregnant because of this then it is not an accident, it is stupidity

And I assume you've never erred or been misinformed?

Boombastic

Millicent wrote: »

And I assume you've never erred or been misinformed?

I'm not saying that I haven't but with something as important as this I make it my business to find out.