Are Cycling Paths for Cyclists?!

Honestly!

A rhetorical question...you think?!

This evening, I witnessed a cyclist getting verbally abused by a jogger for cycling in the cycling lanes from Charlesland to Mill Road!

This menacing brute was jumping up and down pointing at the cycling signs ON the cycling path seemingly arguing that the cyclist should have moved out of his way! Not sure that English was his first langauge because he wasn't making any sense.

With only me on the footpath, the jogger had no excuse at all to be in the cycling lanes. I cycle now and then and would expect that people understand that the cycling lanes are for cyclists only?

The last thing we want to do is drive cyclists on to the road where cycle paths are available just because clowns insist on using them instead of the footpaths.

Where does the law stand on this if anywhere?

Plastik

The law is that if there is a cycle lane present then the cyclist must use it. There is no law however, that prohibits pedestrians from walking in cycle lanes.

The flip side of this story is that I was recently accosted by pedestrians, a couple, for not using the cycle lane (I was on the road) while they were on the footpath! Busy bodies.

hardCopy

I'm pretty sure cycle lanes are meant for people to walk their dogs on reeeallly long leads while wearing headphones.

audreyp

I'm guilty of this though always give way to cyclists. The cycling path is supposedly better for knees for running than the hard concrete. I'm not sure if it's in my head or not but feels easier to run on.

Chazz Michael Michaels

I see, on a daily basis, cyclists whizzing around on footpaths, apparantly not even considering the thought that an accident might happen. Swings and roundabouts.

hardCopy

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

I see, on a daily basis, cyclists whizzing around on footpaths, apparantly not even considering the thought that an accident might happen. Swings and roundabouts.

Swings, Roundabouts and Footpaths should all be avoided on a bike.

recedite

Plastik wrote: »

The law is that if there is a cycle lane present then the cyclist must use it. There is no law however, that prohibits pedestrians from walking in cycle lanes.

Source or GTFO (two random pedestrians don't count)


So anyway, I came out from Eden Gate direction and was cycling up the Farrankelly cycle lane on the RHS of the carriageway towards N11, when a guy came cycling down the same lane towards me at speed. Thinking it best to keep left, I thought he would move into the empty pedestrian lane to his left, but no, he plays a game of chicken and only swerves at the last second, and then shouts obscenities at me for being on the wrong side of the road.
I presumed cyclists could travel in either direction on these lanes, especially when there is a concrete median and it is not possible to get to the other side of the carriageway without doing a major detour?

Cookie_Monster

recedite wrote: »

Source or GTFO (two random pedestrians don't count)

true unfortunately though there is a lot of pressure on Leo to revoke it

Plastik wrote: »

The law is that if there is a cycle lane present then the cyclist must use it.

I'd change that statement ever so slightly to say: if there is a legal correct and signed cycle lane...
and since most don't actually meet the legally required standards you can ignore them, particularly if they are off road in which case they are utter irrelevant to where you are going on the road and of no use to you

homer911

As a motorist, it really annoys me when the road is narrow, a cycle lane is provided, yet the cyclists refuse to use it.

That being said, some cycle lanes are atrocious - up and down at every gate entrance, very uneven tarmac, debris...

Taltos

recedite wrote: »

I presumed cyclists could travel in either direction on these lanes, especially when there is a concrete median and it is not possible to get to the other side of the carriageway without doing a major detour?

I believe the direction of the graphic on the lane shows the direction of flow.
Many lanes are one way observing the flow of traffic. Some though are bi-directional but again the painted cyclist on the path will show this. I am unsure of the paths you were on but I would guess that they are indeed following the flow of traffic...

Personally I am not a fan of cycle lanes having cycled for a while in parts of Dublin. Too many flat tires, too often having to stop on downhill runs where intersecting traffic had right of way where cyclists on the road just kept whizzing past. One or two stupid stretches where the cycle lane curved behind bus shelters - trust me - don't go flying along these if there is a bus stopped or even if there isn't - bus shelters can hide people just strolling on their mobiles...

edit: One thing though - getting back into cycling after years of driving has I think made me a better driver. Tend to give more space and indicate now every time I meet a cyclist on the road. Shame our roads are not wider to allow for safer cycling - but I guess that would just encourage more speeding from certain drivers instead of sharing the road with all road users. To the other poster above - you are right though jogging on the cycle lanes is a small bit softer than the concrete - definitely saves the knees.

dr ro

i hate the cycle lane on the mill road that comes out of the village. Some cyclist use it going into the village. Cars coming out of the playground/beach carpark or from park and ride tend to look right As they edge out to turn left. Cyclist assume because they're in the cycle lane they're ok. It's a dangerous area.

Viva La Gloria

I can't even count the number of times I've driven past cyclists on the Charlesland dual carriageway, especially down the hill, who don't use the cycle lanes and whizz down in the middle of the road. It bemuses me.

happyhappy

Viva La Gloria wrote: »

I can't even count the number of times I've driven past cyclists on the Charlesland dual carriageway, especially down the hill, who don't use the cycle lanes and whizz down in the middle of the road. It bemuses me.

It is safer to cycle on the road going down that hill rather than using the cycle lane. If you are out training on a bike, and pushing to cycle as fast as possible you are travelling too fast to risk coming in contact with pedestrians on that stretch. There are also places where the path and cycle lane are blocked by over grown hedges, which doesn't help the situation.

I use this route to run and cycle, and definitely prefer to see fast cyclists on the road and not close to me on the path!

I think a common sense approach is best here - if you are slowly cycling to the shop or train station etc for example, the cycle lane is the place for you, however if you are on a training spin and travelling fast or potentially travelling fast then the road is better.

I am saying this as a cyclist and a motorist, and as someone who has done a course in cycling safety.

Viva La Gloria

happyhappy wrote: »

It is safer to cycle on the road going down that hill rather than using the cycle lane. If you are out training on a bike, and pushing to cycle as fast as possible you are travelling too fast to risk coming in contact with pedestrians on that stretch. There are also places where the path and cycle lane are blocked by over grown hedges, which doesn't help the situation.

I use this route to run and cycle, and definitely prefer to see fast cyclists on the road and not close to me on the path!

I think a common sense approach is best here - if you are slowly cycling to the shop or train station etc for example, the cycle lane is the place for you, however if you are on a training spin and travelling fast or potentially travelling fast then the road is better.

I am saying this as a cyclist and a motorist, and as someone who has done a course in cycling safety.

Fair enough, re cryclists in training. (wouldn't have ever looked at it that way...not being a cyclist myself)

But it's not always cyclists who are training, it's just as often the average joe soap on a bike that I notice doing it. Always just wondered why.

Cookie_Monster

Viva La Gloria wrote: »

Always just wondered why.

1. Because they can.
2. Because it's safer.
3. Because it's more convenient

That's all it really comes down to IMO. Cycle lanes are often full of rubbish, glass, gravel and broken surfaces from lack of maintenance. Coupled with the fact they often require you to stop at junctions where the road wouldn't and that they don't always follow the road exactly they end up being slower as well.

At a societal level they also encourage segregation rather than integration of transport modes and help build a perception that cyclists don't belong on the roads (funny considering they have more entitlement than drivers - who first need special training and licensing, not to mention age restrictions)

Viva La Gloria

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

1. Because they can.

But then why do people say that it's illegal to cycle on the road when a cycle lane is provided?

hardCopy

Viva La Gloria wrote: »

But then why do people say that it's illegal to cycle on the road when a cycle lane is provided?

Sadly it is illegal, but the current and previous Ministers for Transport have promised to remove this law.

Annasopra

hardCopy wrote: »

Sadly it is illegal, but the current and previous Ministers for Transport have promised to remove this law.

Have they?

Taltos

No - it's still a law - so if you do choose to cycle on the road be prepared that the gardai are well within their rights to pull you up on it.
If you can show that the section of the cycle path is dangerous or unsafe you may have a case but who knows. For the moment so it is still on the books as a law so take what risks you feel comfortable with.

To the point above - I think cycle paths for those uncomfortable with the roads is a great idea. For those of us who grew up being chased off the paths as kids directly onto the roads well I still prefer the roads. I know the rules of the road and stick to them - really gets my goat when other cyclists don't - but just as often I see other motorists flagrantly breaking the law too - roundabout at Killincarrig anyone...

magicbastarder

many years ago i read a report which claimed that off road cycle lanes were more dangerous for cyclists as they remove cyclists from the road on the stretches of least danger (i.e. the straight bits) and then dump them back into traffic at the sections of most danger; this is compounded by the fact that a driver is much less likely to take heed of a cyclist not sharing their road space, so when a cyclist is dumped back onto the road at a junction, the motorist is much less aware of their presence.

must see if i can find a link for this.

recedite

Taltos wrote: »

I believe the direction of the graphic on the lane shows the direction of flow.
Many lanes are one way observing the flow of traffic. Some though are bi-directional but again the painted cyclist on the path will show this. I am unsure of the paths you were on but I would guess that they are indeed following the flow of traffic..

Yes, you are right, I have had a closer look at the situation there, and the graphics do show the direction of travel, but the cycle track appears to actually reverse direction without warning :eek: at this junction.

This is the junction at Farrankelly Road/ Priory Road; the turn into Eden Gate, heading up from Charlesland towards N11. The left tarmac lane beside the grass verge is the one to be in. The next (middle) lane is for oncoming cyclists, and the concrete lane on the right is supposedly for pedestrians.
However, on the far side of the junction, the left lane beside the grass is for oncoming cyclists. The right tarmac lane is for pedestrians, and the concrete lane is gone. Although there is no warning of the change, there are some graphics painted on the tarmac a few hundred metres further up, where the eagle-eyed can discover they are going the wrong way on a one way system.
So it was just after this junction the guy nearly collided with me because he refused to go into the empty lane (now a pedestrian lane, on my right). Technically he was right and correct it seems, and there is no way for me to cycle straight on, legally, at this junction.
In reality though, pedestrians could be wandering across any of the lanes, and it is much safer for everyone if faster moving cyclists use the hard shoulder of the road as they normally do.

mak78

As a runner (and cyclist) who uses the Farrankelly Road I admit to running in the cycle lane from time to time - as the tarmac its definitely easier on the knees than the concrete footpath. However I only do this where there is bi-directional cycles lanes so I can run in the ONCOMING cycle lane. If I see a cyclist coming against me I'll move to the footpath so as not to obstruct them. If a cyclist is coming up directly behind me they are in the wrong cycle lane anyway, and as mentioned theres no law against walking/running in cycle lanes. If theres only a single cycle lane I'll keep out of it and stay on the footpath.

As for cycling on the road - its definitely a safer option if cycling at speed (i.e. training spin). to many bumps/holes/dogs/kids etc. on the footpath and cycle lanes. The road is plenty wide enough for cyclists and cars.