Cheeky Offer...

PaulieC

Hi All,

I haven't been here in a while, but I thought I'd share this lovely offer I got thought Flickr

HI Paul,

I really like your interior photo of XXXXX Barbers. I am creating a website for the owner and was wondering if I could use this shot on our location page? I will fully credit you on the website if you would like.

Regards

xxxxxx

My reply...

HI xxxxx,

Thank you for your interest in my photo. Unfortunately it is not my policy to give away my photos in return for credit, as credit does not pay the bills! I am sure that the practitioners in the fine establishment do not provide free haircuts, not do you provide free website design, so I am sure that you can see my point.

I would be more than willing, however, to licence the photo to you, on a perpetual royalty-free basis should you wish to use it. If so, please let me know and I will provide you with the full resolution download from my website.

Thanks in advance
Paul

I wouldn't mind, but I'm fully bald, so I can't even barter it for a free haircut

dazftw

Any reply? I love these stories.

PaulieC

none as yet. I would be very surprised to ever hear from him again...

Paulw

Normally you don't hear back to your nice polite reply. I'd bet the lovely polite web designer isn't working for free.

Fair play to you. It's all too common. But, just keep an eye on the website, just in case they still go ahead and use your image.

AnCatDubh

nice one!

well, i suppose at least they had courtesy to ask which is better than finding out it was being used somewhere after the event.

thebaz

cambo_gueno wrote: »

I wouldn't mind, but I'm fully bald, so I can't even barter it for a free haircut

the odd number 1 might come in handy ;-)

amdgilmore

I don't understand why people building commercial websites think photos should be free? Stupid.

I'm only a newbie to photography so I've given up my photos for free the couple of times I've been asked (purely because I was flattered!), but if I was a pro I think I'd be pretty annoyed about an offer like that.

Prenderb

amdgilmore wrote: »

I don't understand why people building commercial websites think photos should be free? Stupid.

To be clear - I don't think photos should necessarily be free.

Maybe they don't think that. I'd imagine it's worth their while to either a) ask many flickr (etc) members by email for free can they use the pic for free or b) take the risk and probably not get caught.

With the way the world has gone, many photosharers probably don't give a monkey's about whether they get paid or not for a photo they've already taken and I'd think some would be only too delighted to see a pic getting used.

If someone is putting a website together, what harm to ask if someone will donate the use of a photo? The worst that the photographer can say is no, and there's no harm done. The online community is now full of (legitimately) free stuff, from software to music to literature to images, so it's not a surprising thought.

ronanc15

Probably on my own in thinking this but would it not have been a bit wiser to word the email without the first paragraph about nobody working for free? It comes across as a bit condescending or immediately on the defensive. I would imagine they would have been more likely to pay for the photo then?

Reoil

ronanc15 wrote: »

Probably on my own in thinking this but would it not have been a bit wiser to word the email without the first paragraph about nobody working for free? It comes across as a bit condescending or immediately on the defensive. I would imagine they would have been more likely to pay for the photo then?

I think you are on your own yeah. I would have done the same. Hits the nail right on the head.

ronanc15

I know it does, but does it not immediately reduce the chance of a sale?

ronanc15

I would have thought this would have been sufficient:

HI xxxxx,

Thank you for your interest in my photo. Unfortunately it is not my policy to give away my photos in return for credit.

I would be more than willing to licence the photo to you on a perpetual royalty-free basis should you wish to use it. If so, please let me know and I will provide you with the full resolution download from my website.

Thanks in advance
Paul

Bigcheeze

Your reply is pretty unprofessional as it's passive-aggressive.

Ronanc's reply is what you should have written.

humberklog

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Your reply is pretty unprofessional as it's passive-aggressive.

Ronanc's reply is what you should have written.

I think the reply was as unprofessional as the approach taken by the web-site maker person.

It's a pity that with the expansion of on-line advertising by small and medium businesses that one of the first things to take the negative hit is photography.

The designer gets the brief, puts together the lay-out etc. and then pulls off some pics from the itnernet that aren't tailor made for job at hand.

It is a cheap and quick method but it does look cheap and quick. And it's a pity to have proper photography thought so little of.

ronanc15

To play devil's advocate here, the designer could still be willing to pay? He may have dealt with photographers before who were perfectly happy with having their name credited and is trying to ascertain if this chap is happy with being credited or if payment is required.

I can see your point too

humberklog

ronanc15 wrote: »

To play devil's advocate here, the designer could still be willing to pay? He may have dealt with photographers before who were perfectly happy with having their name credited and is trying to ascertain if this chap is happy with being credited or if payment is required.

I can see your point too

So then he's pulling a stroke?

I don't mean to say that every site using photos should hire a photographer to take the shots required. If by chance though that they do happen across a pic that is suitable they should offer some money...even 50quid or so.

This nonsense of "crediting" as some sort of payment is a bag of shoight.

50quid, a voucher for the barber and a credit on the site is still keeping it cheap but somewhat respectful.

ronanc15

Im sure there is a chance he is chancing his arm but better not to alienate him if you could potentially make a few quid in the end?

Theres a certain amount of cheeky barter in most industries and in a typically Irish way it usually starts with an insulting offer lol e.g. car sales

Gregor Samsa

humberklog wrote: »

I think the reply was as unprofessional as the approach taken by the web-site maker person.

It's a pity that with the expansion of on-line advertising by small and medium businesses that one of the first things to take the negative hit is photography.

The designer gets the brief, puts together the lay-out etc. and then pulls off some pics from the itnernet that aren't tailor made for job at hand.

It is a cheap and quick method but it does look cheap and quick. And it's a pity to have proper photography thought so little of.

You know the way some professional photographers here complain about part-timers, "weekend warriors", and various Toms, Dicks and Harrys with a DSLR setting themselves up as pros, undercutting the people who's livelihood depends on photography, and often providing an inferior service? Well, it's exactly the same with web design.

The bar for entry to this level of the industry is merely ownership of a PC and internet access. Knowledge of HTML, CSS, various client and server side scripting languages, Photoshop, image compression, accessibility, usability, and fundamental design principles doesn't matter so much when you've got a WYSIWYG editor and Google to find whatever images and buttons you need.

Any good web designer, either in an agency or freelance, will a) ask the client to provide legit images b) licence/commission images or c) go and take them themselves. It's the shams that rip off images. No company, or designer I've ever worked with or for has ever stolen an image for a customer's site, or sought one in exchange for something as useless as a credit.

I've been a web designer/developer for 13 years now, and while I've only worked in agencies and corporations (not freelance), I've seen the results of a lot of these cowboys. I've been in positions when hiring staff, and a couple of the portfolis of people who describe themselves as freelance web designers would make you want to poke your eyes out. But of course, there's also lots of really decent, above board designers too. But good web design, like good photography, doesn't come cheap, and the cheap shams have a market.

As an aside, I've had HTML and CSS stolen from sites I've designed in the past. You know when someone hotlinks an image of yours, and you can replace it with something unsavoury, and it shows up on their site? Well, imagine the creative fun you can have when someone decides to steal the layout of your webpage, and effectively hotlinks your CSS file. It basically gives you complete control of their page. And they don't know what the hell is going on when the willies start showing up on it. Fun times!

PaulieC

ronanc15 wrote: »

Probably on my own in thinking this but would it not have been a bit wiser to word the email without the first paragraph about nobody working for free? It comes across as a bit condescending or immediately on the defensive. I would imagine they would have been more likely to pay for the photo then?

Ah Ronan you're gas. Someone sends me an offer to use a photo of mine in exchange for some credit and I'm the condescending one ?

I was recently contacted in a similar manner, through Flickr. This time, the guy was upfront in asking for usage, but said he had a limited budget. Fair enough, times are tough yadda yadda. I did business with him straight away, even though it probably cost me more to get him the image than he paid for it.

I'm a bit long in the tooth to be flattered into giving away stuff, especially to someone who is making money off it

ronanc15

cambo_gueno wrote: »

ronanc15 wrote: »

Probably on my own in thinking this but would it not have been a bit wiser to word the email without the first paragraph about nobody working for free? It comes across as a bit condescending or immediately on the defensive. I would imagine they would have been more likely to pay for the photo then?

Ah Ronan you're gas. Someone sends me an offer to use a photo of mine in exchange for some credit and I'm the condescending one ?

I was recently contacted in a similar manner, through Flickr. This time, the guy was upfront in asking for usage, but said he had a limited budget. Fair enough, times are tough yadda yadda. I did business with him straight away, even though it probably cost me more to get him the image than he paid for it.

I'm a bit long in the tooth to be flattered into giving away stuff, especially to someone who is making money off it

Im only telling you how the wording comes across. maybe you're in the fortunate position where you can afford to lose a sale, I dont know. All im really saying is that if you had hoped that in the end he would buy it then your first paragraph was a bit too quick off the mark, only IMO of course. Realistically I dont know you so you mightnt care whether the photo sells it might never have been taken for commercial use. I wouldnt suggest you should be flattered into giving it away either, just an observation communications wise