Petition against surf school ban from Lahinch car park

AntHraxEater

Clare County Council have decided to stop surf schools in Lahinch using the main car park. Sign the petition to protest the move.

From a safety point of view Clare CoCo have made a poor decision – check out this post on Surfaroundireland.com for a full explanation. Until a few weeks ago surf instructors could use the car park to monitor sessions, now they are stuck looking at a golf course. Lifeguards do a great job but they are only employed for the Summer months. So - if you're interested in supporting our local surf industry this is a great way to do it, just put your name down.

fd

prob would be better if it didnt make you donate to sign the petition....

AntHraxEater

No donation is required to sign.

fd wrote: »

prob would be better if it didnt make you donate to sign the petition....

rodento

Would be problem be solved if the surf schools offered to pay for the parking places they use up

Mickeroo

rodento wrote: »

Would be problem be solved if the surf schools offered to pay for the parking places they use up

I would have thought they were already doing that what with it being Pay & Display there?

rodento

Hard to feel sorry for them after reading this

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0725/1224320764517.html

They could have represented themselves better by engaging with the local authority on the issue

noserider

Poor location for surf schools for their businesses and employment.
Alot of surf lessons are booked as people pass and think "sure why not give this a go". Visibilty is key for passing trade. People who want to go surfing will find them anyway but what proportion do they make of total lessons.

The proliferation of people renting boards and acting as surf schools is an issue though. Whats to stop any Joe Soap investing in soft boards and renting them from the back of a van?. The the relocation to the back car park is not the solution though.

Has the move got something to do with the casual trading by laws??

zoobizoo

From what I heard, one of the surf shops in the town has been behind it.

The Surf schools make that town what it is. I've met loads of people through one of the schools and it would encourage me to surf there because of it.

The council might be better served cleaning the prom more often, investing in flags (used to show swimming area) which surfers can see while in the water and maybe improving the horrendous public toilets there.

CRenegade

rodento wrote: »

Would be problem be solved if the surf schools offered to pay for the parking places they use up

I'm sure the casual Traders Licence fee would be payment enough for the temporary use of the area.
Also, the Council should open their eyes and see the amount of money which surfing brings into the town, these businesses attract tourists on a regular basis; these tourists spend plenty of money in the area when there.

Regarding the Irish Times article, It does appar that only one of the surf schools put in a submission (I dont know the reason for this), however should the concept of keeping the surf schools along the prom be dismissed because of this?

I know for sure that Bens surf clinic put in a submission which I have read and it specifically details the need to be located along the Prom for many reasons, why should his business be destroyed because his competitors failed to make a submission?

Minutes from the County Council Meeting where the decision was made on the Bye-laws states:

The report states that the reason for the amendment to the existing parking Bye Laws is to make provision for a safer Promenade in Lahinch for the public using this amenity. Traditionally swimmers and walkers used the beach. In the past ten years surfing and other water-sports have become very popular and now, due to the number of people using Lahinch, for different reasons, it is felt that some form of regulation must exist to protect all users and to ensure that this amenity will still appeal to all users.

It looks like serious consideration was given to this issue in the meeting! :rolleyes:

CRenegade

CRenegade wrote: »

I know for sure that Bens surf clinic put in a submission which I have read and it specifically details the need to be located along the Prom for many reasons, why should his business be destroyed because his competitors failed to make a submission?

Sorry I dont think it was Bens submission that was included but rather another surf school. Regardless, I have read the reasons in detail as to why the surf schools should be located on the prom.
It looks like the Council are trying their best to limit surfing activity and the freedom of surfing in Lahinch and the wider area!

zoobizoo

"I refer to your recent correspondence regarding new bylaws introduced by Clare County Council and their impact on surf schools operating from the car park at the promenade in Lahinch, Co, Clare, the contents of which I have noted.

It is my understanding that Clare County Council are endeavouring to balance the demands of surfers and non-surfers alike as well as the safety of all beach users. In that regard the making of bylaws is a matter for the relevant local authority, in this case Clare County Council, and I have no authority or function in relation to the matter.


Yours sincerely



_______________
Leo Varadkar T.D.
Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport"

Brick Session

zoobizoo wrote: »

From what I heard, one of the surf shops in the town has been behind it.

The Surf schools make that town what it is. I've met loads of people through one of the schools and it would encourage me to surf there because of it.

The council might be better served cleaning the prom more often, investing in flags (used to show swimming area) which surfers can see while in the water and maybe improving the horrendous public toilets there.

Was only up there last week with the family. I totally agree that the council would be better served cleaning up the place. This will probably offend (and before I get attacked, I live in Tramore which looks dreadful around the prom and amusement areas so I am not picking on Lahinch) but Lahinch looks quite shabby for the past number of years and if not for the surf and surf school would anything attract you to Lahinch apart from Golf and the road to Liscannor and the Cliffs etc.

In my opinion, the Surf Schools, The Surf Shops and the Clare County Council might be better off working together to attract visitors into Lahinch instead of squabbling and sending out bad signals to the potential visitors to the town.

lesserspottedchloe

zoobizoo wrote: »

From what I heard, one of the surf shops in the town has been behind it.

The Surf schools make that town what it is. I've met loads of people through one of the schools and it would encourage me to surf there because of it.

The council might be better served cleaning the prom more often, investing in flags (used to show swimming area) which surfers can see while in the water and maybe improving the horrendous public toilets there.

Couldn't agree more, talk about 'biting the hand that feeds you'?!
I mean lets be honest there are far more beautiful beaches that are also good wave spots other than Lahinch. The surf schools are a huge year-round attraction that the Council should be doing their best to accomodate.

rodento

CRenegade wrote: »

I'm sure the casual Traders Licence fee would be payment enough for the temporary use of the area.
Also, the Council should open their eyes and see the amount of money which surfing brings into the town, these businesses attract tourists on a regular basis; these tourists spend plenty of money in the area when there.

Regarding the Irish Times article, It does appar that only one of the surf schools put in a submission (I dont know the reason for this), however should the concept of keeping the surf schools along the prom be dismissed because of this?

I know for sure that Bens surf clinic put in a submission which I have read and it specifically details the need to be located along the Prom for many reasons, why should his business be destroyed because his competitors failed to make a submission?

Minutes from the County Council Meeting where the decision was made on the Bye-laws states:

The report states that the reason for the amendment to the existing parking Bye Laws is to make provision for a safer Promenade in Lahinch for the public using this amenity. Traditionally swimmers and walkers used the beach. In the past ten years surfing and other water-sports have become very popular and now, due to the number of people using Lahinch, for different reasons, it is felt that some form of regulation must exist to protect all users and to ensure that this amenity will still appeal to all users.

It looks like serious consideration was given to this issue in the meeting! :rolleyes:

Looks like a motion from a FG councillor Bill Slattery

He also proposed new bylaws should be introduced prohibiting trading on Lahinch promenade as well as setting down a designated area for surfers to carry out their business.
While surfers were welcome in Lahinch, he stressed the needs of holidaymakers and day-trippers also needs to be taken into account.
“There are no controls in place on the promenade at the moment; vans, camper vans and caravans are all over the place. The promenade is being clogged up with surfers and surfers’ equipment. Swimmers can’t swim and people can’t go for a walk.

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9062:little-progress-on-lahinch-prom-plan&catid=66:north&Itemid=56

keryl

I would blame the council to be honest, they set the laws and if there was a real interest in serving the public, there simply wouldn't be an issue.
Why can't they simply set things in place and create an infrastructure that looks the part and suits everyone. They make a lot of money in seaside towns, meet it half way and deliver the goods... Learn from other countries, tourism is essential for the country and will only get bigger depending on how they improve it...

zoobizoo

If the council invested in some large poles to delineate the swimming area, the problem in the water would be solved. As it is, one can barely see the 5ft high flags whether a surfer or a swimmer. The life guards have asked the council to no avail.

The prom isn't bunged up by surfers, nor is the carpark. I was down there last week and while there were about 100 surfers (including schools) in the water, there was no issues on the prom or in the carpark - nor have I ever seen any issues.

Will the Perriwinkle guy be barred too?

The council should probably sweep up all the broken glass from the carpark..... maybe they could use some of the money they collect on the car park to pay someone to do it... and put in some nicer toilets (I hate having to use the swish ones in O'Looneys ).

listermint

The only reason i travelled down to Lahinch when i was in clare last year, and i mean the ONLY reason was for the surf schools.

I dont understand closing down revenue generating local businesses that are actively attracting visitors

rodento

To be fair we do not know if anyone ever contacted the council or local councillors over surfers blocking access or getting in the way of families/people with disabilities walking along the pathway of the car park.


Maybe worth someone putting in a FOI request to see if any complaints have been received about surfers

No good names left

That's a good idea Rodento about the FOI. The surf schools should request that as a starting point.

The surf schools pay the going rate for any parking spaces they take up, on top of the licence fee.

At the end of the day, the Councillors will push for whatever they see as attracting themost votes - so if there is a co-ordinated campaign to local Councillors from people living in the area there is more likely to be a reversal. The problem is most likely that the people writing in are from outside the County, and their votes won't matter to the Clare County Councilors. Still worth writing anyway though.

I disagree with Leo Varadkars response - as Minister for Sports and Tourism he is in a position to write to Clare County Council to advise that their byelaws are having a negative impact upon surfing, which is a sport that is of economic importance and attracts international tourism to Ireland.

ben bennett

thanks for all the comment etc. let me get a few clear facts out there.

Lahinch surf experience but in the only submission.
I acting for bens surf clinic had a consultation (as did all the schools) before the by laws came in. I put forward my concerns for safety, my business and lahinch business in general.
then wrote to all councillors and Co co employees working on laws.

All my suggestions were ignored in by laws so did not make an offical objection (error on my part) as they now can use this to their advantage. Dont play their game very well.

As far as i am aware all surf schools paid their parking fees, we also paid a fee for a licence to work on the beach. And i personally said i was willing to pay some sort of rate. so money was not the issue.

There is not a united front from the surf schools as new location is an obvious adventage to some schools so why would they object.

when asked the origanal reasoning behind the laws, i was there were complaints about surfers in the swim zone and surfers taking up space on the prom while waxing boards etc "the prom was an obstacle course" "an accident waiting to happen". We asked to see these complaint under freedom of information act, but there are no written complaints what so ever.

my problem is this is a surfer issue not a surf school issue. Surf schools do not allow people in to the swim zone. That said they have no control over rentals and take the point the rentals should be controled more and should not just be given out to anyone.

the swim zone is only there for two months and often the red flag is up so no swim zone. Therefore the council is making a year round policy for less than a two month period.

also moving the schools has not changed the issues one bit only reduce the safety on the beach.
There have been two major incidents in the last two weeks. A surf instructor who just happened to be passing assisted a lifegaurd wtih a casulity in a serious situation. ended up on life support and safe saved by the two boys, so if that happen next week when there are no life gaurds only surf instructors.

On high tide big swell last we three guys with new gear obvious novices walked down the first slipway in lahinch and all three were immediately thrown up on the rocks and had to be rescued by lifegaurds. i am 100% if we had been in our usual place we would have had a word and no one would have been put in danger.

so what happens come winter time when real swell starts kicking in. There are a lot of beginners /improvers out there who have little or no knowledge of the sea or are armed with the wrong information. just look at the beginner section here to see the miss information out there. without a few good eyes (surf instructors) on the sea in Lahinch there will definitely be serious accidents this winter. which could be avoided.

Council have decided to limit surf schools you must consider when will they decide to limit surfers in general. will they decide when and where you can surf. theseby laws have been a swing at surfing in general as they cant manage surfers they take it out on surf schools.

there are issues, prom and beach could be looked after better. there are a lot of people in a small space when there is sun and surf. surfers do take up a lot of space and need to be aware of other water users. Lots of people rent who shouldnt, and should be on surf lessons, but if people dont precieve surf lessons to be benifical then they just rent even if they know nothing about the water. the prom is busy, boards are left lying around, there are no decent showers/toilets/parking in summer.

Shoud we work together , YES however if council members still believe lahinch is a Golf town , and council workers still believe "Lahinch is a bathing beach" how can we. Please forward your opinions thanks ben

kingcharles82

ben bennett wrote: »

thanks for all the comment etc. let me get a few clear facts out there.

Lahinch surf experience but in the only submission.
I acting for bens surf clinic had a consultation (as did all the schools) before the by laws came in. I put forward my concerns for safety, my business and lahinch business in general.
then wrote to all councillors and Co co employees working on laws.

All my suggestions were ignored in by laws so did not make an offical objection (error on my part) as they now can use this to their advantage. Dont play their game very well.

As far as i am aware all surf schools paid their parking fees, we also paid a fee for a licence to work on the beach. And i personally said i was willing to pay some sort of rate. so money was not the issue.

There is not a united front from the surf schools as new location is an obvious adventage to some schools so why would they object.

when asked the origanal reasoning behind the laws, i was there were complaints about surfers in the swim zone and surfers taking up space on the prom while waxing boards etc "the prom was an obstacle course" "an accident waiting to happen". We asked to see these complaint under freedom of information act, but there are no written complaints what so ever.

my problem is this is a surfer issue not a surf school issue. Surf schools do not allow people in to the swim zone. That said they have no control over rentals and take the point the rentals should be controled more and should not just be given out to anyone.

the swim zone is only there for two months and often the red flag is up so no swim zone. Therefore the council is making a year round policy for less than a two month period.

also moving the schools has not changed the issues one bit only reduce the safety on the beach.
There have been two major incidents in the last two weeks. A surf instructor who just happened to be passing assisted a lifegaurd wtih a casulity in a serious situation. ended up on life support and safe saved by the two boys, so if that happen next week when there are no life gaurds only surf instructors.

On high tide big swell last we three guys with new gear obvious novices walked down the first slipway in lahinch and all three were immediately thrown up on the rocks and had to be rescued by lifegaurds. i am 100% if we had been in our usual place we would have had a word and no one would have been put in danger.

so what happens come winter time when real swell starts kicking in. There are a lot of beginners /improvers out there who have little or no knowledge of the sea or are armed with the wrong information. just look at the beginner section here to see the miss information out there. without a few good eyes (surf instructors) on the sea in Lahinch there will definitely be serious accidents this winter. which could be avoided.

Council have decided to limit surf schools you must consider when will they decide to limit surfers in general. will they decide when and where you can surf. theseby laws have been a swing at surfing in general as they cant manage surfers they take it out on surf schools.

there are issues, prom and beach could be looked after better. there are a lot of people in a small space when there is sun and surf. surfers do take up a lot of space and need to be aware of other water users. Lots of people rent who shouldnt, and should be on surf lessons, but if people dont precieve surf lessons to be benifical then they just rent even if they know nothing about the water. the prom is busy, boards are left lying around, there are no decent showers/toilets/parking in summer.

Shoud we work together , YES however if council members still believe lahinch is a Golf town , and council workers still believe "Lahinch is a bathing beach" how can we. Please forward your opinions thanks ben

Well done Ben,well said!! I believe a serious accident will happen over the coming months and it could easily be avoided, let's be realistic 90 per cent of lahinch surfers are beginners and without proper supervision over the winter months anything could happen,

Lahinch would be a very different place if it wasn't for its hardworking surf schools, the Clare county council should look after the facilitys out in lahinch before they go making drastic changes like moving the surf schools,

Ben and other surf school workers out there in lahinch,ye are all doing a fantastic job and ye are the reason lahinch has such a fantastic tourist trade in these difficult!! Keep up the hard and honest work,ye have plenty of support!!!

rodento

Ben someone should try and find out if anyone complained directly to the county councillors as apposed to the council, not sure if this can be done

spaceHopper

Ben get the surf instructor who helped pull the guy out of the water to contact the http://www.mcib.ie/ and ask them to investigate the incident and issue as a matter of urgency. Getting a solicitor to write the letter might carry more weight.

Also get a solicitor to write to Clare CC asking for them to conscider over turning the bye-law pointing out your valid saftey concers and list any incidents. That will put them on notice that if anybody dies in lahinch they could be accontable. It sucks to have to fork out for a Solicitor but it's effecting your buisness.

This has nothing to do with complaints - it's pay back for objections to doolin peir.

No good names left

Re comments above - As far as I know, the MCIB's remit is incidents relating to shipping vessels, but no harm in giving it a go I suppose.

If complaints came into the Council members and they raised it with Council Officers, then there would be a record of this that should have come to light with any FOI request.

Would it be worth arranging for a survey of the various businesses around the main car park to confirm whether their business has suffered in any way since the surf schools were moved?

I fully concur with all of Ben's points, well put. I'd also add about the benefit a presence in the car park during quieter months, which would discourage casual vandalism or thefts from vehicles.

Suggestion for compromise - could surf schools be permitted to park in main car park outside of the main life-guarded season?

Ben have any of the elected Councillors been approached? What was the response?

No good names left

I don't think the Council would be held accountable if there were injuries or deaths to swimmers, as they have no duty of care to provide life guards (whether direct or indirect) outside of the busy swimming periods. This point could only really be pushed politically/emotionally, but not legally.

hardCopy

I don't live in Clare, I don't even surf regularly.

I stayed in Doolin for a week in February, our trip included a morning of surfing in Lahinch, there were lots of surfers on the beach but there was bugger all else going on, this was school mid-term week.

It seems totally mad to make life difficult for surfers when they bring money into the town all year round.

rodento

No good names left wrote: »

I don't think the Council would be held accountable if there were injuries or deaths to swimmers, as they have no duty of care to provide life guards (whether direct or indirect) outside of the busy swimming periods. This point could only really be pushed politically/emotionally, but not legally.

From my memory the council voted against a proposal to limit the number of surf schools in lahinch, push to hard and they may revisit this

Also as a person who lives on the seafront I would guess you guys have no idea how annoying it is to families, elderly & people with disabilities when footpaths are block by recreational equipment, the problem in lahinch could well be a valid one

No good names left

"Also as a person who lives on the seafront I would guess you guys have no idea how annoying it is to families, elderly & people with disabilities when footpaths are block by recreational equipment, the problem in lahinch could well be a valid one"

No offence, but that's a very presumptive and condescending comment.

Sleepy

Rather than getting together petitions, has anyone approached a local councillor to discuss the matter?

Generally the best way to get anything done within Irish politics is to play by their rules so a sympathetic councillor could be your best bet. Lahinch is synonymous with surfing in Ireland and surfers must bring millions to the locale every year, it doesn't take Michael O' Leary to realise that helping the schools helps the town.

Most councils in Ireland are teetering on the verge of bankruptcy so they may not be in a position to invest in facilities. Were the various schools, surf shops and other local businesses who do well out of surfing (e.g. hostels, bars etc.) to come together and offer to put up some, or all, of the investment necessary to expand the carpark and put in some showers etc. you might find them very quick to come on board: there's few things an Irish politician loves more than the opportunity to cut a ribbon and take credit for something that'll make the papers.

lizgal

spaceHopper wrote: »

Ben get the surf instructor who helped pull the guy out of the water to contact the http://www.mcib.ie/ and ask them to investigate the incident and issue as a matter of urgency. Getting a solicitor to write the letter might carry more weight.

Also get a solicitor to write to Clare CC asking for them to conscider over turning the bye-law pointing out your valid saftey concers and list any incidents. That will put them on notice that if anybody dies in lahinch they could be accontable. It sucks to have to fork out for a Solicitor but it's effecting your buisness.

This has nothing to do with complaints - it's pay back for objections to doolin peir.

what ever happened bout doolin pier?

bagus

ben bennett wrote: »

Shoud we work together , YES however if council members still believe lahinch is a Golf town , and council workers still believe "Lahinch is a bathing beach" how can we. Please forward your opinions thanks ben

Lahinch is still a Golf town, and it is still a bathing beach.

The council have a problem with the boards lying around etc... How do you propose they fix it? (It can't be policed, there is no money for that.)

I don't have any issue with the schools being re-located.
The schools should just accept it, and teach groms some etiquette about fitting in, rather than taking over the car park and footpaths. etc...