Petition against surf school ban from Lahinch car park

spaceHopper

bagus wrote: »

Lahinch is still a Golf town, and it is still a bathing beach.

The council have a problem with the boards lying around etc... How do you propose they fix it? (It can't be policed, there is no money for that.)

I don't have any issue with the schools being re-located.
The schools should just accept it, and teach groms some etiquette about fitting in, rather than taking over the car park and footpaths. etc...

OK so Jonny gets a lesson for school say in Sligo. He's bought a board and is walking down the prom in Lahich to go surfing, say 2 hours before high tide. If one of surf schools see him then cheances are they will gently tell him he's left it to late as by the time he's getting out the beach will be covered and he'll be on the rocks - not a great place for a beginner. That's what was happening till now it's prevented people needing help from the life guards.

The whole thing stinks - Clare CC wanted to build a pier at Doolin that would make a mess of Crab Island which is a world class wave. The WCSC and ISA objected - this is pay back. There have been no problems with board left of prom, I've always seen surfer put their boards down carefully and mind them, remember most boards don't take kindly to over excied kids jumping on them.

Mickeroo

bagus wrote: »

Lahinch is still a Golf town, and it is still a bathing beach.

The council have a problem with the boards lying around etc... How do you propose they fix it? (It can't be policed, there is no money for that.)

I don't have any issue with the schools being re-located.
The schools should just accept it, and teach groms some etiquette about fitting in, rather than taking over the car park and footpaths. etc...

The surf schools keep their boards in their vans as far as I've seen. Any boards lying around are put there by people who brought their own/rented them.

OldGuysRule

Clare Co Co's vengeful and short sighted actions towards surfing in Clare is not only limited to this farce, they have also put double yellow lines at another surf spot and put mounding along the road blocking the car parking used for the cliffs.

The poor relationship between CCC and surfing is a direct result of their blinkered attitude, having been very involved with many of the issues previously discussed here and elsewhere, there have been so many requests sent formally and informally to meet with everyone from local engineers, the county manager, senior engineers, councilors etc but almost every time they have been ignored. The ISA and WCSC have repeatedly stated their support for the Doolin project and have always offered to meet and discuss the designs / specifications to come to agreeable solutions that will not damage the world class wave environment.

Having surfed all over the world and with a keen interest on the social environment aspect of surfing, I have never come across a local authority to turn its back on surfing as much as Clare. It is incredible that they take / make so much money from it through parking at Lahinch, Spanish Point etc, through the thousands of visitors and tourists who come into the county supporting direct and indirect businesses throughout the year and eve the rates of all the surfing related business. Yet they have have NEVER engaged with any surfing groups, be they commercial, voluntary, representative or otherwise, nor have the significantly identified surfing as being valuable to the county.

Sleepy

Might it be an idea to get one or two local business owners that are involved in the surfing industry in Clare to run for council in 2014?

rodento

Lads I think your been OTT.

When large groups of people park along side roads in remote places they can easily create traffic hazards for other road users. I'd check to see if there had been complaints first before I'd get on my high horse

Also people forget that the council opposed daft bye laws that wuld have limited the number of surf schools on beachs, so they can't be described as anti surfers

killedsirius

rodento wrote: »

Lads I think your been OTT.

When large groups of people park along side roads in remote places they can easily create traffic hazards for other road users. I'd check to see if there had been complaints first before I'd get on my high horse

Also people forget that the council opposed daft bye laws that wuld have limited the number of surf schools on beachs, so they can't be described as anti surfers

They aren't parked along roads in a remote area, they are parked in a designated car park for the beach.

Most of the 'i support the council' arguments apply for a maximum of 5 weeks of the year. From October on that car park is a ghost town except for surfers and surf schools

hardCopy

rodento wrote: »

Lads I think your been OTT.

When large groups of people park along side roads in remote places they can easily create traffic hazards for other road users. I'd check to see if there had been complaints first before I'd get on my high horse

Also people forget that the council opposed daft bye laws that wuld have limited the number of surf schools on beachs, so they can't be described as anti surfers

You must not have been to Lahinch before. It's quite a large car park and is not by any means remote.

rodento

OldGuysRule wrote: »

Clare Co Co's vengeful and short sighted actions towards surfing in Clare is not only limited to this farce, they have also put double yellow lines at another surf spot and put mounding along the road blocking the car parking used for the cliffs.

killedsirius wrote: »

They aren't parked along roads in a remote area, they are parked in a designated car park for the beach.

hardCopy wrote: »

You must not have been to Lahinch before. It's quite a large car park and is not by any means remote.

Nuff said:rolleyes:

Lads take your surfing focused hat off for a second, try to focus on why the changes at the other spots and if there was a reason for it. Parking at remote area's can create problems

lizgal

rodento wrote: »

Nuff said:rolleyes:

Lads take your surfing focused hat off for a second, try to focus on why the changes at the other spots and if there was a reason for it. Parking at remote area's can create problems

if that were the real reason for all this, the co council would have done someting about the constant road hazards at fanore/ballyvaugan roads caused by tourists just throwin their cars there and goin off walking. far more careless than any surfers

OldGuysRule

Rodent,

Of the two areas I am referring to;
CCC responded that the double yellow lines in one place were put there as it is an access for a launch site for Doolin Rescue boat, however, the Doolin Guys never looked for it, nor is there an access spot down that lane, it is a 5 or 6 foot drop off onto a rocky shore! I agree that there were issues with the guy who lives at the end of the road, but access to his illegally operated garage was not been impacted
The mounding at the Cliffs (not even the main road, but the side road) was not the request of the local landowners nor is there any evidence of complaints - this was checked.

The big issue is that, on each of the occassions where surfing interests have been impacted by CCC, including those above, they have not been willing to engage on a meaningful basis. Not just with ISA or WCSC, but with anyone; individuals, businesses, representative groups etc

listermint

rodento wrote: »

Nuff said:rolleyes:

Lads take your surfing focused hat off for a second, try to focus on why the changes at the other spots and if there was a reason for it. Parking at remote area's can create problems

You comments clearly have nothing to do with lahinch. Im sorry but your completely clueless on what you are talking about. And ive only touristed in the area for non surfing reasons.

rodento

OldGuysRule wrote: »

Clare Co Co's vengeful and short sighted actions towards surfing in Clare is not only limited to this farce, they have also put double yellow lines at another surf spot and put mounding along the road blocking the car parking used for the cliffs

Does this article cover all those parking locations

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9926:council-to-counter-illegal-cliffs-parking&catid=74:general&Itemid=60

CLARE County Council has agreed to implement parking restrictions close to the Cliffs of Moher to counter “blatant illegal parking” after a number of complaints by people living and farming in the area and local representatives.
At a recent meeting of Ennistymon Area Councillors, Councillor Bill Slattery requested the senior executive engineer “put double yellow lines and no parking signs on both sides of the road where blatant illegal parking is taking place on a daily basis at Ballysteen Cross on the Doolin side of the Cliffs of Moher”.
Ennistymon area senior executive engineer Stephen Lahiffe told the meeting Clare County Council had received “numerous complaints” from councillors and residents in relation to this location and had ordered signs to deal with the matter.
“Following the submission of a number of letters from local residents with serious worries about public safety, Clare County Council in association with the Ennistymon gardaí agreed proposals for traffic restrictions at Bartra and Caherbarnagh/Luogh South. We then went through the official procedure and confirmation was received this month from An Garda Síochána that the proposals are satisfactory. Signs have been purchased and will be erected shortly,” he outlined.
Mr Lahiffe confirmed that there were issues with emergency vehicular access at Barta and that this was particularly problematic for the Doolin Coast Guard who had come to the council about parking in the area last year. He added that parking on the road at Caherbarnagh had caused problems with access for emergency vehicles and people farming in the area. Mr Lahiffe also stated that the council planned to move “pretty quickly at both locations”.

OldGuysRule

Those are the locations and as noted above, there is no vehicular access to the shore at Bartra, if you have been there, you would see that it is impossible to launch a boat, this was acknowledged by the Doolin lads when contacted. As for the Balysteen cross, this was discussed with the locals at a recent meeting re Doolin and the issue had not been raised by them. There is one central figure in all this, the councilor. Try talking to him and see what his view on surfing, surfers and the benefit they bring to the county and it all becomes a little clearer.

rodento

Oldguyrules all i'm saying is that there could well have been legitimate complaints about surfers parking on that road.

Access to/from the property may have been blocked because of the surfers as the road is very narrow at the property entrance and that could easily have lead to complaints

And as for the coastguard, they may well required access to the coastline to us eas a look out and not to gain access to a boat

OldGuysRule

Maybe so, but then why not meet to discuss these things, discuss the complaints and try and seek non-heavy handed solutions? The WCSC has repeatedly sought to meet with CCC on these and other surfing related issues, but to no avail really.

rodento

Sorry forgot about the cliffs

At a recent meeting of Ennistymon Area Councillors, Councillor Bill Slattery requested the senior executive engineer “put double yellow lines and no parking signs on both sides of the road where blatant illegal parking is taking place on a daily basis at Ballysteen Cross on the Doolin side of the Cliffs of Moher

Anyone wonder why the council would they put down mounding to stop surfers surfing a break that doesn't work all that often, my guess is that the place is also popular with hikers who don't want to park at the center and the place gets rammed on good weekends

I just don't think its helpful when people come out with crap like this is pay back for doolin or clare county council vengeful and short sighted actions etc... putting this **** out on public forums will only ever make things worse cause some people will believe it and at the end of the day surfers will have to get along with others in the local communities.

If people have problems with what is happening in their area they have the find local councillors who are willing to fight their corner, its how local politics works.

Getting back to the ban from lahinch car park you really have to ask how this came about, could it have been because surfers blocked the footpath with the boards every day.

The council put an idea to deal with the issue of schools out to public consultation, you can't blame them if the surf club(not sure about this) or most of the surf schools didn't make any submissions or engaging with councillors on the issue

OldGuysRule

Back to the ban, if you or the council examined what has been happening there over the past number of years, there are regularly boards strewn on the prom, but look again. They are, in the vast majority of cases, belonging to individuals or they are rentals left around while people get changed. The schools either leave their boards on the sand between lessons or they are returned back into the vans. Moving the schools is not going to remove the basis for the 'complaints' which is boards being left lying around in people's way.

In fact the situation is now much more serious as previously the various schools used 4 main pedestrian access points to the beach, now with the relocation, they are pretty much forced to all use one, the most northerly one. Incidentally, this is also the last available access from the beach as the tide is rising, creating a serious pinch point for access.


There are other downsides to the relocation including the much mentioned effective removal of 15 to 20 beach life saving qualified from the previous vantage point on the upper prom.




As an aside Rodent, I have been involved with many direct interactions with CCC an with councilors over the past number of years, the level of ignorance (and I mean that in the 'close minded, uninformed' sense) we have encountered is staggering.

Amongst the nonsense statements we have come across from councilors, County Manager and senior engineers are;

• Surfing is a fad that only came when we had few quid and will be gone away soon
• No one ever surfed in Clare before the last decade
• Less that 10 or 15 people surf Doolin / Crab over a month, and only during September and October
• People do not travel to Ireland for surf
• Surfing brings nothing to Lahinch outside of July and August
• Surfing makes no real difference to Clare
• Surfers are not a stakeholder group when dealing with foreshore issues or other coastal development issues
• If surfers are so into the environment, then why do we all drive to the beach
• The WCSC was set up to object to Doolin and only has three members

Don't for a minute think that we have not tried to engage with all the local (and Clare wide) councillors in recent years, and not in an antagonistic manner. We have sought to sit down and explain the surfers point of view but to no avail. Surfing is seen as a minority, fringe activity. If we keep hitting against a brick wall, what can we do.

Sleepy

Have ye tried a petition of the local business people that benefit from surfing? It's easy collect a few hundred names on-line, would the councillors pay more heed to a letter signed by a large number of their Rates payers?

promethius

i've not surfed lahinch in a couple of years but sounds like it's got busier since then. i'm not comenting on lahinch here now but leaving boards thrown on the prom anywhere is the height of ignorance and i suppose the council had to deal with it in some way. doesn't sound like the best way to do this has been implemented however.

one thing that might help would be to round up all the schools and interested local surfers, find out when the next county council meeting is on and arrive wetsuited up and with a board in hand and stage a friendly and peaceful protest as the suits go in. tie in with a local photographer/paper and get the pictures in local and possibly national press. an interesting image like that would spread and help raise awareness and embarass the council into having to engage with ye.

this won't get sorted on boards :-)
time for ye to mobilise

spaceHopper

promethius wrote: »

i've not surfed lahinch in a couple of years but sounds like it's got busier since then. i'm not comenting on lahinch here now but leaving boards thrown on the prom anywhere is the height of ignorance and i suppose the council had to deal with it in some way. doesn't sound like the best way to do this has been implemented however.

one thing that might help would be to round up all the schools and interested local surfers, find out when the next county council meeting is on and arrive wetsuited up and with a board in hand and stage a friendly and peaceful protest as the suits go in. tie in with a local photographer/paper and get the pictures in local and possibly national press. an interesting image like that would spread and help raise awareness and embarass the council into having to engage with ye.

this won't get sorted on boards :-)
time for ye to mobilise

Or Hawaiian shirts

rodento

This is the bye laws in question

http://www.clarecoco.ie/roads-and-transport/publications/draft-lahinch-promenade-car-park-bye-laws-2012-11696.pdf

It would be worth finding out how long they will be law for and how to change them if possible, but it should be noted that bye laws are adopted/voted on by councillors