Cinema (Planned) at MacDonagh Junction

Lord Derpington

Looks like the permission was granted with conditions, great news!
No listing as to what the conditions are as of yet though.

http://planning.kilkennycoco.ie wrote:

Decision Type: CONDITIONAL
Number of Conditions: 6

linny

the six conditions are up today, dont seem to bad straight forward enough, lets just hope it's not appealed to an bord pleanala, for it to be delayed for another six months or a year,

Comhairle Buirge Chill Chainnigh
Kilkenny Borough Council
Planning Report


Planning & Development Acts, 2000 - 2010
Planning & Development Regulations, 2001 - 2011

Reg. Ref. P.12/22

Report Date: 22nd May 2012

Applicant: MacDonagh Junction Developments Ltd.

Address: Junction of Dublin Road and John Street Upper/ Castlecomer New Road, MacDonagh Junction, Kilkenny.

Development: Development at this site of 0.35 ha approximately situated on the site of the disused rail tracks and former station platform (a Protected Structure) on the southern edge of the MacDonagh Junction Goods’ Shed Square. The proposed development is fully enclosed by and is now included within the permitted MacDonagh Junction Mixed-Use Development lands (KBC Ref. Ref 03/032; An Bord Pleanála Ref PL62.207285, as amended). (The permitted MacDonagh Junction mixed-use development lands have been reduced from 4.98 ha approximately due to the exclusion of the railway station lands owned by CIE. Including the subject site area, the overall MacDonagh Junction Development lands now amount to 4.48ha approximately). The proposed development is a new cinema building within the MacDonagh Junction complex located at the former railway station platform and will consist of: the demolition/removal of certain existing structures on-site, including the permitted colonnade wall (Reg. Ref. 03/32 as amended by Reg. Ref. 06/58) currently forming the boundary separation between Goods’ Shed Square and the railway, the disused railway tracks, the pedestrian underpass; the restoration and opening of the Arcaded Wall (a Protected Structure); the dismantling of the former railway station platform (a Protected Structure), allowing for the restoration, re-use and relocation of the platform’s cast iron columns and arched beams within Goods’ Shed Square; the construction of a 6-screen, 1004 no. seat, multiplex cinema building with a gross floor space of 2562 sqm approximately, including 2175 sqm at ground floor level (comprising foyer, ticketing, toilets, staff facilities and 6 no. auditoria) a cinema projector floor at first floor level of 360 sqm, and plant level stair core of 27 sqm; the creation of a new pedestrian linkage south of the proposed cinema connecting the ‘new’ Railway Station to John Street Upper/Castlecomer New Road along the restored Arcaded Wall (a Protected Structure); ancillary plant (including screened rooftop plant), signage, circulation, landscaped areas and all other ancillary works above and below ground. The services associated with this proposed development (mechanical and electrical, water supply, sewage disposal, surface water disposal and parking) will connect to those permitted in the MacDonagh Junction parent permission (KBC Reg. Ref. 03/032, as amended)..


Site Description
The subject site has a stated area of 0.35 of a hectare and is located within the grounds of MacDonagh Junction which has an overall site area of 4.48 hectares. The site contains the remains of the old railway station building, platform and brick arcaded wall which are Protected Structure. The Kilkenny railway station and tracks are located to the east of the subject site, the Goods Shed and Goods Shed Square are located to the north, a pair of red brick restored station buildings are located to the west of the site and a temporary surface car park is located on lower ground to the south of the site.

Proposed Development
The proposal is the construction of a new 6-screen cinema building with 1,004 seats, within MacDonagh Junction. The cinema has a stated floor area of 2562sqm. The cinema building will be located to the north of the existing red brick arcaded wall and south of the Goods Shed Square.

Site Visit
The site was visited on the 13th April 2012 and the site notices were present and legible.

Zoning: Kilkenny City and Environs Development Plan 2008-2014
In accordance with Section 9.3.4, the site is located in an area zoned ‘General Business’:
Objective: To provide for general development.
Permissible Uses: Dwellings, retailing, retail warehousing, wholesale outlets, offices, public buildings or places of assembly, cultural or educational buildings, recreational buildings, halting sites, hotels, motels, guest houses, clubs, private garages, open spaces, public service installations, medical and related consultants, restaurants, public houses, car parks, halls or discotheques and other uses as permitted and open for consideration in residential zoning.
Open for Consideration: open space, workshop or light industry.

Archaeology
The site is not located within the Zone of Archaeological Potential, ‘KK019-026 City’, established under the National Monuments Act.

Conservation
The Railway Station is a Protected Structure in the RPS (Ref. D86). It is described as: Including goods sheds and footbridge. Extensive complex of terminus building, platforms, sidings, covered platform, goods shed, signal box, footbridge and water tower.
The site is not located in an Architectural Conservation Area.

Planning History
There has been in excess of 25 planning applications made on lands at MacDonagh Junction. The most relevant are:

P.03/32: Parent permission granted for mixed use development. Permission to Extend the Duration of this permission was granted under P.09/69 for an additional 5 years. This permission now expires on 14/12/2014.
P.06/40: Permission granted for modifications to Building No. 6 (hotel) providing a basement level car park containing 28 no. spaces.
P.06/58: Permission granted for amended building 2A to provide increase in gross floor space of Building No. 2A at Lower & Upper Ground Floor level to include new Bowling Alley access building at Upper Ground Floor level and an extension of footprint of Building No. 2A to allow for inclusion of 2 no. retail units.
P.09/45: Permission granted for change of use of leisure unit B3 in Building 2A located at lower ground floor level to fast food takeaway to operate as a pizza takeaway and delivery service.

Third Party Submissions
There are two objections on the file.
Omniplex Cinema Kilkenny, Fair Green: The proposed development would undermine the viability of the existing cinema, a long established town centre use; the proposed development would compromise the existing cinema as admissions have been constantly declining since 2007; increased parking demand has not been accounted for; adequate details in relation to noise attenuation have not been submitted and the impact on residential amenity has not been addressed.
Keep Kilkenny Beautiful: The cinema building has no design relationship with the protected structures; a more sensitive design solution is required; the link between the MacDonagh Junction shopping centre with the railway station and the original railway station building on the Dublin Road and the potential of a future link to the railway viaduct towards James’s Green and the Mart should be considered; the proposed development should be refused on conservation grounds.



Referrals
An Taisce: The design of the proposed development is inappropriate for the proposed location.
Sanitary Services: No objections.
Area Engineer: No objections. Existing parking provision is adequate.


Assessment

The main issue here is in relation to the scale and bulk of the proposed building in the context of the location of the site close to the protected structure of the goods shed and the arched wall of the original railway station.
At its nearest point the proposed building will 17m from the goods shed ( eastern end) and at the western end it will be of the order of 36 m from the good shed.

The parapet of the proposed cinema from the Goods Shed square side will be 65.02m compared to 63.4m for the apex of the existing goods shed.

Further information was requested in relation to four items:

1. A reduced building foot print to lessen overbearing, A reduced footprint and/or relocation of building further to the east or reduced finished floor levels and lowering the roof profile.

Response
The building has been redesigned. Screens 1 & 2 at the west end have been re-oriented which allows for a reduction in building footprint and a set-back of 7.8m at the west end.
This has a beneficial effect of reducing the scale and bulk of the building when viewed from the Dublin Rd.

2 Information was sought on the relationship between the proposed cinema development and the permitted hotel development on the adjoining lands to the south.

Response
A Plan and sections were submitted as part of the further information which shows the relationship of the permitted hotel building located between the Dublin Road and the proposed cinema.
A number of photomontage views were also submitted.
These show that the permitted hotel when constructed will effectively screen the cinema building when viewed from the junction of Johns Street and the Dublin rd.
The cinema building would still be visible approaching from the east along the Dublin Road.

3. Information was sought in relation to compliance with Part M of the building regulations.
Response
The applicants confirm that the building has been designed in full compliance with current Building Regulations.

4. The applicant was requested to reconsider the proposed location of the colonnade closer to their original position within or close to the concourse/concession area of the building in order to achieve a better urban design solution and to retain as much special interest as possible with regard to the former function of the site. A linear arrangement is the preferred option.

Response:
A revised location and context has been proposed for this structure which brings the colonnade nearer to its original position and at the same time establishes an architectural relationship between the colonnade and the new cinema foyer building. A more meaningful inclusion for the colonnade has been proposed in retaining its linear arrangement and it is now “intersected” by the facade of the foyer. The colonnade renews its structural function when it is within the interior of the building and supports the foyer roof. The Planning Authority is satisfied with this solution.


5.It is an objective of the City Centre Local Area Plan to form pedestrian connections between the retail core and the city centre expansion sites (O.U.D. 15). This refers to a potential pedestrian link on the old railway line to connect MacDonagh Station with the Kilkenny Mart site (See page 77). You are requested to clarify whether the removal of the overpass will interfere with this objective and to submit a justification for its removal accordingly.

Response :

The applicant has confirmed that the overpass is to be retained in accordance with the O.U.D. 15 objective of the Local Area Plan.

The scale and bulk of the proposed cinema and the nature of the building itself presenting a large single structure without fenestration was of concern to the local authority and third parties. In addition the relationship of the proposed building to the existing goods shed was also of concern.

Through the further information a number of design changes were made which have reduced the impact of the proposed building in the short term and have made the colonnade wall more of an independent feature.

In addition to that the fact that there is permission for an hotel to the front of the site which will screen the development from the Dublin Road and Johns street view is a significant factor in favour of the proposed development. Even if the hotel does not proceed in the short term due to economic circumstances it is considered that the site given its location as part of the McDonagh Junction located adjacent to the railway station and at the junction of the Dublin Rd and Johns street will attract a significant building in the medium term.

The relation ship of the proposed building to the goods shed is considered acceptable. I have examined the parent permission and the inspectors report in relation to the omission of building 2A.
Building 2A was closer to the goods shed being 6m at the eastern end and 19m at the western end separate from it.
In this case as stated before the proposed building will be 17m from the goods shed ( eastern end) and at the western end it will be of the order of 36 m from the good shed.
The roof level of building 2A was proposed at 64m, 67m and 70m through its length.

In this case the parapet level is 65m with the recessed plant area at 67m. Having regard to the greater distance form the goods shed I consider these dimensions acceptable.


Recommendation
Having regard to the provisions of the Kilkenny City and Environs Development Plan 2008-2014, to the Conservation Officers report and to the use of the proposed building and its location within the over development of McDonagh Junction granted permission under planning ref 03/32, which has to be completed, it is considered that the proposed development, subject to compliance with conditions below, would not seriously injure the amenities of the area and would therefore be in accordance with the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.





___________________________
Denis Malone
Senior Planner



__________________________
Brian Tyrrell
SEO


First Schedule
Reasons & Considerations for Decision on Planning Ref. P.12/22

Having regard to the provisions of the Kilkenny City and Environs Development Plan 2008-2014, to the Conservation Officers report and to the use of the proposed building and its location within the over development of McDonagh Junction granted permission under planning ref 03/32, which has to be completed, it is considered that the proposed development, subject to compliance with conditions below, would not seriously injure the amenities of the area and would therefore be in accordance with the proper planning and sustainable development of the area


Second Schedule
Conditions attached to Planning Ref. P.12/22

1. The development shall be carried out in accordance with the plans and particulars submitted on the 20th March 2012 and the further information submitted on the 19th July 2012 save as amended by the conditions attached hereto.

REASON: To ensure that the development strictly accords with the permission and to ensure that effective control is maintained

2. A contribution shall be payable to Kilkenny Borough Council in respect of public infrastructure and facilities benefiting development in Kilkenny Borough Council’s administrative area and that is provided or that it is intended will be provided by, or on behalf of a Local Authority.

The amount of the contribution will be the rate of contribution in existence on commencement of development and not the rate in existence at the time of this permission. The amount of the development contribution is €38,430 (thirty eight thousand four hundred and thirty euro) and is subject to revision with reference to the Wholesale Price Index, and penalty interest in accordance with the terms of Kilkenny Borough Council’s Development Contribution Scheme.

REASON: It is a requirement of the Planning and Development Acts 2000-2010 that a condition requiring a contribution in accordance with the Development Contribution Scheme made under section 48 of the Act be applied to the permission.

3. Full details of the proposed external finishes to the building shall be agree with the Planning Authority prior to erection on site.


REASON: In the interests of visual amenity

4. Full details of the of advertising signage on the building shall be agreed in writing with the planning authority prior to erection on the proposed cinema.

REASON: In the interests of visual amenity.


5. The method statement for the assessment of the arcaded wall to determine the form and extent of the conservation and repair required shall be agreed with the Planning authority prior to the commencement of works on site.

REASON: To protect the architectural integrity of the arcaded wall.

6. The method statement for the works for demounting and re erecting the cast iron colonnade shall be agreed with the Planning Authority prior to commencement of development.

REASON: To protect the architectural integrity of the cast iron colonnade.



NOTE:

If there is no appeal against this decision, a Final Grant of Permission in accordance with the Decision will be issued after the expiration of the period within which an appeal may be made to An Bord Pleanála (See attached).

It should be noted that until a Final Grant of Permission has been issued, the development in question is NOT AUTHORISED and works cannot be carried out.
The Applicant is advised that unless the development described above is carried out within five (5) years from the date of Final Grant of Permission, Planning Permission will cease to have effect. (See Section 40 of the Planning and Development Act 2000)

Section 34 (13) of the Planning & Development Act 2000, reads
“A person shall not be entitled solely by reason of a Permission under this Section to carry out any development”.
Developers are obliged to comply with other legislation and to avoid infringement of third party rights.

The proprietor must apply to the Health Service Executive for registration before commencement of the business.

The development will require the benefit of a Fire Safety Certificate.

road_high

Ah my heart bleeds for the existing cinema; here's an idea to stop the fall in admissions thye claim; lower your prices. I know radical isn't it

linny

If there is no appeal against this decision, a Final Grant of Permission in accordance with the Decision will be issued after the expiration of the period within which an appeal may be made to An Bord Pleanála


anyone know what the appeal period is before a final grant of permission is made?

rayc

mfitzy wrote: »

Ah my heart bleeds for the existing cinema; here's an idea to stop the fall in admissions thye claim; lower your prices. I know radical isn't it

Or invest in better facilities/more staff and hence bring people back to the cinema. Went to see batman a few weeks ago, and having bought my tickets in advance I still had to queue outside in the rain to get into the theater. Swore never again!

Kkid

My main issue has always been that the cinema did not always get the best movies due to a disagreement with distributor and alos that if a film was available in 2and 3D they only showed the 3D version, this ruined more than one movie for me including Thor and The Avengers.

Best of luck to the new crowd hopefully a few ideas like Cinema Club or special deals come out now!

Silverscott

They could also bring down the price of the drinks and popcorn which they must produce for free as the profit they make on it is savage..

catbear

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Should be good for the consumer and bring prices down with 2 cinema's competing. Cant be bad.

That's the crux of it. If the existing cinema wasn't making a decent profit then no way would anyone build a new one to compete, hopefully this will lead to a wider selection for viewers in KK.

road_high

catbear wrote: »

That's the crux of it. If the existing cinema wasn't making a decent profit then no way would anyone build a new one to compete, hopefully this will lead to a wider selection for viewers in KK.

Exactly. It's a free market and anybody within reason is entitled to enter it as long as their businessplan is sound for them.
This thing of "we have a cinema already" is rubbish and ignores the fact that it is way too small for KIlkenny. It regularly does not have big release films on show :eek::eek:
If we were all to take this attidude nothing new would ever be built or open.

S28382

A cinema along the lines of what they have in Waterford would be a good thing for KK town.

road_high

S28382 wrote: »

A cinema along the lines of what they have in Waterford would be a good thing for KK town.

Why, what's down there?

ft9

mfitzy wrote: »

Why, what's down there?

Storm cinema. It's class, but you would want to take out a mortgage if you plan frequent visits.

road_high

ft9 wrote: »

Storm cinema. It's class, but you would want to take out a mortgage if you plan frequent visits.

That like the one in Portlaoise so? Yea, pretty nice those.

S28382

Yeah as said above its a good cinema it used to be storm now its odeon or something like that

Captain Havoc

ft9 wrote: »

Storm cinema. It's class, but you would want to take out a mortgage if you plan frequent visits.

It's only a fiver on Wednesdays, started this week.

Wimbago

Prices at the cinema seem to be harming them more than anything. Was at Ted on Friday evening and the place was 75% full (the elevated seats at least) but only about 5 or 6 of the couples or groups that came in had bought any drinks or popcorn from what I could see.

Was one of those that bought some snacks, €15 for 2 bottles of water, 2 maxi twists and a large popcorn!! For what costs about €6 in total in the shop, you can see why no-one was buying anything. Thankfully we'd brought a bag of MnM's from home . . .


Not sure a 2nd cinema will see prices for snacks drop that dramatically to be honest. Maybe some offers but not drops. The cinema is one of the few places prices still increased with things going t1ts up everywhere else.


Went to the Avengers in the Eye cinema in Galway, and whilst the tickets were a little dearer (€9, could be standard everywhere now though, I dont know), the snacks seemed more reasonable - €2 for a Magnum is the same as the shops. Large popcorn was €3, water €2 but €5.50 on deal. Not awfully cheaper I know but still, €5.50 difference for the essentially the same items

Daemos

Can't beat €1 for a can of Coke and bag of crisps at Happy Times for cinema food

I'd love a new cinema. Hopefully it will bring prices down and more choice for films

up for anything

I heard today that the 'old' cinema will close down when the new one is opened. I'm not sure what truth there is to that.

Dun Doire

Wimbago wrote: »

Prices at the cinema seem to be harming them more than anything. Was at Ted on Friday evening and the place was 75% full (the elevated seats at least) but only about 5 or 6 of the couples or groups that came in had bought any drinks or popcorn from what I could see.

Was one of those that bought some snacks, €15 for 2 bottles of water, 2 maxi twists and a large popcorn!! For what costs about €6 in total in the shop, you can see why no-one was buying anything. Thankfully we'd brought a bag of MnM's from home . . .


Not sure a 2nd cinema will see prices for snacks drop that dramatically to be honest. Maybe some offers but not drops. The cinema is one of the few places prices still increased with things going t1ts up everywhere else.


Went to the Avengers in the Eye cinema in Galway, and whilst the tickets were a little dearer (€9, could be standard everywhere now though, I dont know), the snacks seemed more reasonable - €2 for a Magnum is the same as the shops. Large popcorn was €3, water €2 but €5.50 on deal. Not awfully cheaper I know but still, €5.50 difference for the essentially the same items

I was at the Odeon in Limerick recenlty and the admission and medium coke came to over €14. MAD and the father in law had medium drink and popcorn and it came to over €19. No wonder the place was dead on a Sat night with these prices.

road_high

up for anything wrote: »

I heard today that the 'old' cinema will close down when the new one is opened. I'm not sure what truth there is to that.

What kind of business decides to close even before the "competition" opens? Absolutely pathetic and sounds like total grandstanding to me anyhow.

catbear

mfitzy wrote: »

What kind of business decides to close even before the "competition" opens? Absolutely pathetic and sounds like total grandstanding to me anyhow.

Actually sounds more like the kind of baseless rumour you'd expect in any small town starved of things to talk about, conjecture and musings morphing into fact!

Wimbago

Price of popcorn wont be coming down anytime soon http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303292204577517181109756756.html

linny

241063: MacDonagh Junction, Dublin Road and John Street Upper, Kilkenny. (12/22)
Case Type: Planning Appeal
Description: Demolition/removal of structures on site, dismanteling of former railway station platform (protected structure), construction of cinema building.
Planning Authority: Kilkenny Borough Council
Date lodged: 07/09/2012
EIS: No
NIS: No
PartiesMacDonagh Junction Development Ltd. (Applicant)
Omniplex Cinema (Appellant)

Cabaal

linny wrote: »

241063: MacDonagh Junction, Dublin Road and John Street Upper, Kilkenny. (12/22)
Case Type: Planning Appeal
Description: Demolition/removal of structures on site, dismanteling of former railway station platform (protected structure), construction of cinema building.
Planning Authority: Kilkenny Borough Council
Date lodged: 07/09/2012
EIS: No
NIS: No
PartiesMacDonagh Junction Development Ltd. (Applicant)
Omniplex Cinema (Appellant)

I'd expect this to be going back n forth for months if they are looking to get rid of stuff thats protected

catbear

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd expect this to be going back n forth for months if they are looking to get rid of stuff thats protected

I think health and safety will trump heritage in a depressed economy. The bloody thing is falling apart and if there's no heritage funding available to meet heritage guidelines then down it comes. It's of the industrial age and it isn't unique.

Mankbag

I wouldn't have thought that preserving the old platform at the railway station would be a priority for anyone.

hi5

They're not talking about getting rid of it just dismantling it, so presumably it could be re-erected somewhere else.
Remember they did that with the barracks gate at the roundabout on the 'Comer Rd.

rayc

Mankbag wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought that preserving the old platform at the railway station would be a priority for anyone.

In fairness, given that it's the Omniplex Cinema appealing the decision, it's clearly nothing to do with preserving any historical or protected site.

Cabaal

catbear wrote: »

I think health and safety will trump heritage in a depressed economy. The bloody thing is falling apart and if there's no heritage funding available to meet heritage guidelines then down it comes. It's of the industrial age and it isn't unique.

ah yes, the "sure we don't need old stuff anymore" type of thinking,

This is the same sort of thinking that destroyed so many buildings throughout the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's in Ireland and was a utter disgrace.

linny

rayc wrote: »

In fairness, given that it's the Omniplex Cinema appealing the decision, it's clearly nothing to do with preserving any historical or protected site.

i agree 100% its purely about delay tactics, if it was the kkb crowd maybe but because it the omniplex that brought this appeal. i have to think it's just about self interest on there part,