Cinema (Planned) at MacDonagh Junction

Mankbag

Cabaal wrote: »

ah yes, the "sure we don't need old stuff anymore" type of thinking,

This is the same sort of thinking that destroyed so many buildings throughout the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's in Ireland and was a utter disgrace.

An irrelevant point in this case. The old platform is not something there's any reason to retain.

Einhard

Mankbag wrote: »

An irrelevant point in this case. The old platform is not something there's any reason to retain.

That's exactly what the ESB said when it was knocking Georgian Dublin in the 70s, and what Dublin City Council said when it was bulldozing Wood Key in the 70s. Why exactly couldn't the platform, or at least the superstructure be retained and incorporated into the new building? Look at Work House Square in McDonage Junction. I'm sure people would have stated that there were no reasons to retain such old buildings, but thankfully the architect had somewhat more vision and now we have an excellent example of culture and history integrated with the modern and progressive.

Mankbag

Einhard wrote: »

That's exactly what the ESB said when it was knocking Georgian Dublin in the 70s, and what Dublin City Council said when it was bulldozing Wood Key in the 70s. Why exactly couldn't the platform, or at least the superstructure be retained and incorporated into the new building? Look at Work House Square in McDonage Junction. I'm sure people would have stated that there were no reasons to retain such old buildings, but thankfully the architect had somewhat more vision and now we have an excellent example of culture and history integrated with the modern and progressive.

Am not saying the platform couldn't be retained and incorporated, but I fail to see a pressing need for it. And your comparison with Wood Quay (not Key) is daft. That was Viking remains, a genuine part of Dublin's history. This is 100 yards or so of a railway platform under a leaking roof, not Rothe House or St Canice's Cathedral. Cultural vandalism of the kind carried out on Georgian Dublin it ain't.

Einhard

Mankbag wrote: »

Am not saying the platform couldn't be retained and incorporated, but I fail to see a pressing need for it. And your comparison with Wood Quay (not Key) is daft. That was Viking remains, a genuine part of Dublin's history. This is 100 yards or so of a railway platform under a leaking roof, not Rothe House or St Canice's Cathedral. Cultural vandalism of the kind carried out on Georgian Dublin it ain't.

I didn't compare the station with either Wood Quay or Georgian Dublin. I compared your dismissal of it with those of DCC and the ESB in previous decades, and in that regard, the analogy wa sentirely appropriate.

Mankbag

Einhard wrote: »

I didn't compare the station with either Wood Quay or Georgian Dublin. I compared your dismissal of it with those of DCC and the ESB in previous decades, and in that regard, the analogy wa sentirely appropriate.

Right, I'll try and make this as clear as I can. I am saying I don't see any pressing reason to retain the old platform at the railway station. Nothing more than that. If you want to draw analogies, clearly you are entitled to do so as you see fit. But I fail to see any similarity between 100 yards of old platform at MacDonagh Station and 1,000 years of history at Wood Quay, which to me makes your analogy trite and pointless.

If they were proposing to knock down the Castle, then you'd have a very good point.

Yamanoto

Mankbag wrote: »

I fail to see any similarity between 100 yards of old platform at MacDonagh Station and 1,000 years of history at Wood Quay, which to me makes your analogy trite and pointless.

If they were proposing to knock down the Castle, then you'd have a very good point.

Einhard addressed this already - he was not comparing the sites themselves, but the short-sighted culture which dismisses valid concerns prior to gaining a fuller understanding of a particular site or structures worth, from a heritage and preservation perspective.

It doesn't matter whether something seems old or of little apparent merit - a protected structure is one considered of special interest from an architectural, archaeological, cultural, historical, scientific or technical point of view. That could be a Victorian viaduct crossing the Boyne, a Georgian architrave on a three-storey in Limerick, a stone wall in Connemara or perhaps even part of a platform at McDonagh Station.

I'm sure many would be baffled by some of the structures afforded protection by Kilkenny Co. Council - 'Sure what use is that old thing, it's falling apart' etc. Thankfully, decisions as to the merit of any given structure are made in consultation with those professionally qualified to carry out that assessment.

http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/resources/eng/Services/Planning/DevelopmentPlans/KILKENNY_COUNTY_RECORD_OF_PROTECTED_STRUCTURES.pdf

Mankbag

Fair enough!

linny

looks like we will just have to wait, now and hope An Bord Pleanála gives it the go ahead, Status: Case is due to be decided by 21-01-2013

mousehouse

Hopefully the new cinema will get the go ahead when the appeal has been heard. Often have to travel to Waterford or Carlow as the omniplex in Kilkenny is brutal. More choice is always good.

linny

Published on Wednesday 19 September 2012 08:15



The decision to grant planning permission for a new cinema at MacDonagh Junction has been appealed to An Bord Pleanála by the city’s current cinema, the Kilkenny Omniplex.



The Omniplex had also objected to the original planning application. As outlined in the planning file, the argument was that “the proposed development would undermine the viability of the existing cinema, a long established town-centre use; the proposed development would compromise the existing cinema as admissions have been constantly declining since 2007; increased parking demand has not been accounted for; adequate details in relation to noise attenuation have not been submitted and the impact on residential amenity has not been addressed.”

The proposed cinema at MacDonagh Junction is a six-screen, 1,004-seat multiplex cinema building with a gross floor space of approximately 2,562 square metres.

road_high

So,

effectively the current cinema owners are saying fcuk the general public and free choice, we want to maintain our monopoly at all costs. Rather than actually competing as a free enterprise. It's nuts but very clever on their part.

Captain Havoc

mfitzy wrote: »

So,

effectively the current cinema owners are saying fcuk the general public and free choice, we want to maintain our monopoly at all costs. Rather than actually competing as a free enterprise. It's nuts but very clever on their part.

You can hardly blame them for fighting for their livelihoods.

road_high

Captain Havoc wrote: »

You can hardly blame them for fighting for their livelihoods.

No but using "heritage" as a weapon is slighly nauseaating to me.

rayc

Captain Havoc wrote: »

You can hardly blame them for fighting for their livelihoods.

Absolutely not, but how about fighting for their livelihoods by addressing some of the problems with their current offering. I've only been living in Kilkenny city the last few years but anyone I talk to rarely have anything good to say about the place. If they had tried to improve their own 'product' before now and kept their customers happy the new cinema may not have even considered setting up here.

se conman

mfitzy , if you have a re-read of post 73 you will see that the Omniplex didn't use "heritage" in their objection. Also as far as I know Omniplex have applied for planning permission on 2 or 3 different sites in KK , and with the prospect of them building a new Omniplex it would not make sence to pump money into the existing one. Just my opinion , and no , I don't work in the Omniplex.

DerryRed

rayc wrote: »

Absolutely not, but how about fighting for their livelihoods by addressing some of the problems with their current offering. I've only been living in Kilkenny city the last few years but anyone I talk to rarely have anything good to say about the place. If they had tried to improve their own 'product' before now and kept their customers happy the new cinema may not have even considered setting up here.

I agree. I haven't set foot in the current cinema since The Dark Knight back in 2008. The sound quality was appalling. I go either to Waterford or Carlow.

Dozen Wicked Words

Im not sure they will bother with Kilkenny, once the new cinema arrives, they may just decide to focus all their energies on Carlow (although I think they already do focus most of their attention there anyway). They really did let things slide in Kilkenny, taking an age to bother with 3d (although personally think 3d is sh*t, people seem to like it) and treating KK like a second class establishment.

Omniplex also need to sort out their long standing issue with the distributor which means they miss out on important big films.

If it does close it would be a shame for everyone advocating the importance of a second cinema for choice and competition, it will be interesting to see how the new place prices up their tickets and fodder.

catbear

If the current cinema win with their objection then they won't bother trying to improve their offering.

Sky King

Storm cinema in waterford is class.

although personally think 3d is sh*t, people seem to like it

A lot of people think it's sh!t.

killacat

I'm all for it anyway- was at the kk cinema the other night and about 20 tortilla chips with runny cheese (passed off as nachos) was €5.50. But the real beauty of it was the salsa was extra. Now it may be simplifying it using this example but if they adressed this kind of robbery I may have some sympathy for the existing place. Bring on the competition ..

jackieboy

rayc wrote: »

If they had tried to improve their own 'product' before now and kept their customers happy the new cinema may not have even considered setting up here.

I've spoken with staff at Kilkenny Omniplex about this, and what people don't realize is that the owners of kk omniplex have previously applied and were turned down for a couple of larger sites.

So why should a new company be allowed in?

I don't think Kilkenny is big enough for 2 cinemas, so the argument of job creation by other posters is a farce if it means the current cinema were forced to close.

I also know that the management in Kilkenny have to fight to get movies, & would encourage customers to complain via email so they can forward them to the powers that be.

That's my two cents worth anyway.

jackieboy

I've spoken with staff at Kilkenny Omniplex about this, and what people don't realize is that the owners of kk omniplex have previously applied and were turned down for a couple of larger sites.

So why should a new company be allowed in?

I don't think Kilkenny is big enough for 2 cinemas, so the argument of job creation by other posters is a farce if it means the current cinema were forced to close.

I also know that the management in Kilkenny have to fight to get movies, & would encourage customers to complain via email so they can forward them to the powers that be.

That's my two cents worth anyway.

Hmm_Messiah

jackieboy wrote: »

So why should a new company be allowed in?

I don't think Kilkenny is big enough for 2 cinemas, so the argument of job creation by other posters is a farce if it means the current cinema were forced to close.

I also know that the management in Kilkenny have to fight to get movies, & would encourage customers to complain via email so they can forward them to the powers that be.

Welcome to boards.
Is it your day off from the cinema?
Kilkenny is probably not big enough for two cinemas unless one goes more towards arthouse etc similar to lighthouse which "might" do well. So with no room for 2 the worse one should lose out - how commerce works (one of the few benefits of capitalism)

And they have to fight to get movies ? due to their distributor? If the are owners change branding/distributor

Dozen Wicked Words

I think the fight mentioned is between the management of Kilkenny and head office to secure films to be shown in Kilkenny when their focus is more on the Carlow cinema. And additionally the fight between head office and one of the major film distributors. Planning has been refused before for existing cinema to expand too, so staff at Kilkenny have every right to feel hard done by. They have no say in what film is played or how much people are charged.

Whatever the merits or otherwise of a new cinema it will be unfortunate if people lose their jobs.

DUBintheSTICKS

jackieboy wrote: »

I've spoken with staff at Kilkenny Omniplex about this, and what people don't realize is that the owners of kk omniplex have previously applied and were turned down for a couple of larger sites.

So why should a new company be allowed in?

I don't think Kilkenny is big enough for 2 cinemas, so the argument of job creation by other posters is a farce if it means the current cinema were forced to close.

I also know that the management in Kilkenny have to fight to get movies, & would encourage customers to complain via email so they can forward them to the powers that be.

That's my two cents worth anyway.

Where was the planning permission sought for and why was it refused do you know?

Would be interesting to see on what grounds it was refused.

jackieboy

DUBintheSTICKS wrote: »

Where was the planning permission sought for and why was it refused do you know?

Would be interesting to see on what grounds it was refused.

Well the first one was for the old cattle mart, but that whole project fell through, oddly enough it's jus lying idol there now, what a waste.

Another was for a couple of the units up at woodie's, but they were refused that site because they were told the cinema needed to be in the town center.

jackieboy

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

Welcome to boards.
Is it your day off from the cinema?

No i don't work in the cinema.

I go there on a regular basis, & the management & staff are very forthcoming when you ask them about the situation.

road_high

linny wrote: »

Published on Wednesday 19 September 2012 08:15



The decision to grant planning permission for a new cinema at MacDonagh Junction has been appealed to An Bord Pleanála by the city’s current cinema, the Kilkenny Omniplex.



The Omniplex had also objected to the original planning application. As outlined in the planning file, the argument was that “the proposed development would undermine the viability of the existing cinema, a long established town-centre use; the proposed development would compromise the existing cinema as admissions have been constantly declining since 2007; increased parking demand has not been accounted for; adequate details in relation to noise attenuation have not been submitted and the impact on residential amenity has not been addressed.”

The proposed cinema at MacDonagh Junction is a six-screen, 1,004-seat multiplex cinema building with a gross floor space of approximately 2,562 square metres.

Has there been any update on this blatant abuse of the planning system to protect a monopoly since? Towns much smaller than Kilkenny have way better/bigger cinemas. I rarely go and 50% it's to Carlow or if I'm in Dublin. The current one is very unapplealing.

Davaeo09

mfitzy wrote: »

Has there been any update on this blatant abuse of the planning system to protect a monopoly since? Towns much smaller than Kilkenny have way better/bigger cinemas. I rarely go and 50% it's to Carlow or if I'm in Dublin. The current one is very unapplealing.

That and even for a cinema they are quiet expensive :pac:

road_high

Davaeo09 wrote: »

That and even for a cinema they are quiet expensive :pac:

That's what haapens in monopolies!