Do You Think You're Good at FM/CM?

Seans_Username

I've been playing FM10 a lot recently and I decided to start from nothing with no experience and bring a team from nowhere to champions league blah blah blah. Mainly cos I'd done the Man City thing and bought everyone I could and there was no joy in it.

Anywho, Port Vale (mid-table league 2) offered me a job. Quick summary of things so far:
1st season: From 16th to 8th. Miss out on playoff spot by one position.
2nd season: Just about get to the playoffs, don't get through to the final.
3rd season: Get to playoff final and lose 3-1.
(Every season we're tipped for promotion/playoff places)
Financially: Every season starts out at making money from friendlies & season tickets (normally between $1mil and $1.5mil) then proceeds to drop to negative numbers until we start the next season. It's a repetitive cycle which probably isn't the best as there is no money being made long-term
I have had no transfer money whatsoever and have let good players go because their wages were too high.

I never thought it would be as frustrating as it is. Not getting promoted in 3 seasons with limited resources is not what I expected. I expected to turn the team around and get promoted instantly and turn into what Swansea have become now (cementing their place as a top-flight team).

I don't know why I expected that. I always thought that there was something about Football Manager that made it favour you sometimes. Like in finals or in games when you're the underdog or trying to sign players. I think I've realised that it's not that easy when you start from scratch. It's really made me think that I'm not that good at football manager (:rolleyes: tragic, I know). Even in other seasons, I've managed to take teams from 15th to promotion and then get European football within a year or two.

So I was wondering, are most of you able to save sinking ships from relegation and win trophies against the odds easily? Can you join any team and turn them into the best in the world within a few seasons? Basically, as the title says, do you think you're good at Football (or Championship) Manager?

Mc Love

Realistically I dont think it take a few seasons to turn a sinking ship into the best in the world! I mainly use other peoples tactics but it would still take a while. Took me few seasons to get Limerick into Premier Division and one or two more to be challenging consistently.

Mars Bar

I don't have the patience to make up my own tactics or anything so I wouldn't regard myself as good at the game. I still other peoples tactics and training and away I go. I am fairly good at scouting though.

Eathrin

I started FM12 with Finn Harps in the Irish Division 1.
1st season I achieve promotion through placing 2nd.
Second season I narrowly avoid relegation in 9th place in the Premier Division, won the league cup.
Third season I'm challenging for a top 4 position, still early days.

First two seasons were a financial mess, signed a huge amount of new players on frees and paid far more wages than I could afford to. Steadying the ship now in Season 3.

I only use my own tactics and training, it's difficult to know their effectiveness though as I've nothing to compare them to.

The aim was to become top dogs in the premier division, turn professional and then compete in the champions league, seems a while away yet.

gnfnrhead

I took relegation favourites to promotion play offs in my first season. Won promotion the next season and the national cup. Then I took over another team half way through the season and took them from being on the brink of being dragged into a relegation battle to the promotion play offs. Won promotion in the second season.

If I have a half decent wage budget I can get a club promoted, or close to it, fairly soon.

Played a game with Arsenal and won all four trophies in the first season so I went back to the lower leagues after that.

EveAlex

i firmly believe that the Games AI is designed to favour you after a certain time

all my teams have always gone up - position, finances and players attributes - after a certain length of time

I had a mansfield team that were piss poor and after 3seasons were unbeatable and stormed the league even tho i had no new players in at all

i think its preset to give you decent breaks so that you will enjoy the game and keep playing!!!

PerrinV2

Could come down to where you think your strenghts are
I reckon I play the game quick enough or maybe its average but I've gone through about 8 seasons in 2 and 1/2 days
Gone with gateshead in the blue square premier and so far the seasons are going promoted,make playoffs(lose),Promoted,make playoffs(lose) etc
I do my own tactics and auto assign the training.
I do spent alot of time in transfer market because you kinda have to do when you start off with no money or wages.
I don't think I bought a player for about 4 years every1 was a free or loans.
I'd spent ages going through eastern european countries u19/u21 trying to sign free's and also at the end of the year when clubs release their players to sign good english youngsters.
Its a long ol slog

Crackle

I'd consider myself average enough at the game tbh.

But my younger brother is unreal at the game. He can take over any team, with the lowest reputation setting and turn them into world beaters. Like, for example, too over Shamrock Rovers in FM10 and turned them into multi time European champions.

Seans_Username

EveAlex wrote: »

i firmly believe that the Games AI is designed to favour you after a certain time

all my teams have always gone up - position, finances and players attributes - after a certain length of time

I had a mansfield team that were piss poor and after 3seasons were unbeatable and stormed the league even tho i had no new players in at all

i think its preset to give you decent breaks so that you will enjoy the game and keep playing!!!

That's one thing I forgot to mention. No matter how bad the players on your team are, they seem to be able to beat teams which - if you weren't in charge of them - they'd easily lose to. Attributes don't seem to count for that much when you're the manager of piss poor players.

Crackle wrote: »

I'd consider myself average enough at the game tbh.

But my younger brother is unreal at the game. He can take over any team, with the lowest reputation setting and turn them into world beaters. Like, for example, too over Shamrock Rovers in FM10 and turned them into multi time European champions.

I thought that would be impossible. I mean there is a quite a difference between European football and the Irish league. To bring players capable of winning a european cup to the Irish league is something I couldn't dream of doing

Maximus Alexander

I took Crawley Town from League 2 to Champions League glory, but it took me 11 seasons to do it. So I guess I'm not that good, but I can't be awful, as I always had the team on an upward trajectory.

I must say it was fantastically satisfying. There were games where a 90th minute goal literally had me jumping out of my chair.

I must say though that by the time we won the Champions League I found I didn't savour it as much as when, say, we won promotion from League 1 through the play-offs. It just felt kind of inevitable. I never doubted we would win it some day, whereas in reality you would never feel that way. So maybe the game does favour you a little.

Crackle

Seans_Username wrote: »

I thought that would be impossible. I mean there is a quite a difference between European football and the Irish league. To bring players capable of winning a european cup to the Irish league is something I couldn't dream of doing

I would have thought it impossible too, and didn't believe him when he told me but he showed me his team and history. Now, it took him quite a few years in the game but he did do it, somehow.

Too much time on his hands I guess

tvercetti

For years I didn't have the interest or the patience to manage smaller teams, it was nearly always Man Utd, but I always put alot of time into tactics etc. But I played 1 season with Man Utd on FM12 and it bored me to death, it was all so easy, I made mistakes with transfers and never got the center of midfield right but I still dominated the league and won the Champions League.

So I have now started managing different/smaller teams and enjoyed it alot more and been successful. I am constantly tweaking my tactics and have them working really well.

I have heard people speak negatively about the 3D engine multiple times but I think it helps greatly for improving tactics; marking, width, closing down, defensive line etc are all very visible through games and if you know what you want from your tactics, then you can adjust them in relation to what your seeing.

gnfnrhead

Seans_Username wrote: »

I thought that would be impossible. I mean there is a quite a difference between European football and the Irish league. To bring players capable of winning a european cup to the Irish league is something I couldn't dream of doing

It's easily do-able. Well, maybe not easy, but definitely do-able. I remember reading a story on one of the FM sites about a guy who took a team from the lowest division to Champions of Europe. Took a really long time but by 2040 he was winning the Champions League nearly every year.

The big thing is to invest in your youth facilities as early as possible. Just keep asking until the board give in and upgrade them. The better players that come through the better your team gets and obviously the better you do in Europe, the better your reputation gets, the better the players you can sign.

I got Mount Merrion to the Europa League final before. Got lucky with the draw as I got the worst team possible each time and they all seemed to think I'd be a push over so played weaker teams.

EdenHazard

No but the other teams are never as good as they are in their first season so the game gets much easier over time.

I mean in my game(I'm Liverpool) Newcastle, Spurs, Arsenal, United, Chelsea, City's teams are quality but guaranteed by the third season those squads will be cluster****s.
Same with Russia, imo a very difficult league to win(managing Anzhi) because depth is so great but the teams never keep up that squad level over the years.

Glico Man

I wouldn't say I'm good, but I'm sure my friends have a different opinion after our network game a few months ago where they basically Wayne's Worlded me They took over top teams in Italy (Roma), England (Spurs) and Spain (Valencia) while I took over Paderborn in Germany and took them to the CL before my friends managed to win it.

I do set up my own tactics, from scratch, every game I start and every team I manage. More often than not, I base them on tactics I've used before, but the intricacies change due to personnel available.

I also set out training routines for individual players. It takes a lot of time to get things right, but when it clicks, all your hard work and hours put in pay off.

PerrinV2

aaronh007 wrote: »

I wouldn't say I'm good, but I'm sure my friends have a different opinion after our network game a few months ago where they basically Wayne's Worlded me They took over top teams in Italy (Roma), England (Spurs) and Spain (Valencia) while I took over Paderborn in Germany and took them to the CL before my friends managed to win it.

I do set up my own tactics, from scratch, every game I start and every team I manage. More often than not, I base them on tactics I've used before, but the intricacies change due to personnel available.

I also set out training routines for individual players. It takes a lot of time to get things right, but when it clicks, all your hard work and hours put in pay off.

4 players network? sounds class
How many seasons ye do?

Glico Man

PerrinV2 wrote: »

4 players network? sounds class
How many seasons ye do?

We did 15 before we started to lose interest/lack of free time/different schedules etc...

Was great fun all the same. Especially when I got to their level and beyond. When one of them started bidding for a player, I'd put in a higher offer and delay the transfer until the end of the transfer window before canceling

flanno_7hi

"The game favours you" well i guess that depends on how you play it, you won't feel that way if you are on your 5th loss in a row with a lower league team.

Following the LLaMa rules. Lowest league available in the country, no tips, no using others tactics, don't use transfer list, only scout your borders, no trawling through teams to find players it makes it much more realistic i feel.
Playing the game like that the feeling you get from eventually achieving a promotion or leeague win is so much sweeter.

Playing like that. I've taken athlone town from almost relegated from div 1 on last day of season from div 1 into Europe, saved Ross county from relegation from SFL2 and taken them to the europa league first round in 6 years and taken Go ahead eagles into the top flight twice but in the same game I've also been sacked Limerick Manager and Millwall. So a mixed bag I guess.
I'd say for the way I play I am good but not spectacular. When people tell me about winning the Champions league with some plodder team in England I always think they must be a transfer list trawler.

EdenHazard

Aspect of the game I'll never enjoy is regens. the way its done in the game makes it far too easy yet people seem obsessed over building up a team with youth players.

I've made City and Chelsea very very good so there will be a big challenge for me to win the league, but its inevitable that their squads will worsen in the next few years.

Pauvre Con

Following a football team in the real world is all about dealing with frustration! So it only seems more realistic to deal with the same sense of irritation and limitations playing Champman. I enjoy making the game as difficult as I can for myself and have no problem with not winning the league every single season...

But to answer the OP's question, I've generally done very well at the clubs I've managed. Only been sacked once and that was in my very first job. The worst situation I've experienced since is where I've been unable to improve on a team (in the Norwegian league) despite spending more on transfers than my league rivals. In fact it gradually seemed like we were slipping back. So yeah, after that I did realise that I wasn't as good as I thought I was.

Yakult

aaronh007 wrote: »

We did 15 before we started to lose interest/lack of free time/different schedules etc...

Was great fun all the same. Especially when I got to their level and beyond. When one of them started bidding for a player, I'd put in a higher offer and delay the transfer until the end of the transfer window before canceling

I r interested

Be good to set a boards network up if anyone is interested in joining?

Eathrin

Yakult wrote: »

I r interested

Be good to set a boards network up if anyone is interested in joining?

Great idea. How does it work, does everybody have to be online at the same time and take it one day a a time?

PerrinV2

Yakult wrote: »

I r interested

Be good to set a boards network up if anyone is interested in joining?

Be fairly hard to schedule it I imagine
Time taken on turns depending on the amount of players would be a point too
Although a kool thing with a network game on matchdays is if you finish your match before whoever else is in your network game you can flick over and watch their game live

PerrinV2

flanno_7hi wrote: »

Playing like that. I've taken athlone town from almost relegated from div 1 on last day of season from div 1 into Europe, saved Ross county from relegation from SFL2 and taken them to the europa league first round in 6 years and taken Go ahead eagles into the top flight twice but in the same game I've also been sacked Limerick Manager and Millwall. So a mixed bag I guess.
I'd say for the way I play I am good but not spectacular. When people tell me about winning the Champions league with some plodder team in England I always think they must be a transfer list trawler.

Interesting point you make there but isn't it hard to be a transfer list trawler when you're a lower league side considering usually they have very little resources to buy players off the transfer list.

Seans_Username

PerrinV2 wrote: »

Interesting point you make there but isn't it hard to be a transfer list trawler when you're a lower league side considering usually they have very little resources to buy players off the transfer list.

Very true. I don't think I've bought a single player from another team in my save in the op. All loans and free transfers. Mainly loans cos I don't/can't pay any wages :pac:

I once had a transfer budget of 200 euro. Not sure where it came from... Needless to say it was useless.

flanno_7hi

I mean trawling through players that you can get on a free and on loan too.

only players you scout are available. IRL as far as i know managers of lower division clubs dont have a massive database of players from obscure international teams to choose from.


Not saying doing that is wrong. I just prefer to challenge myself.

gnfnrhead

I dont get what you mean at all. Dont look for players who are available?

Seans_Username

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I dont get what you mean at all. Dont look for players who are available?

I misunderstood it aswell. I think it means going to the list of players and filtering those on transfer list or loan list so you can find them easily.

Going by the 'Llama' way (masking attributes, lowest league available, etc.), using the scout is supposed to be the proper thing to do. Filtering players who are tranfer listed isn't realistic I don't think. While using scouts are very realistic.

flanno_7hi

The ideology behind playing LLM is to play a game as realistic as FM allows.

·This means doing it yourself, using your own mettle, succeeding or failing, but using no outside help.

·Outside help means anything not included in the game. This specifically includes "real life" knowledge. Just because "Wullie Hackum" is good in real life doesn't mean he'll be good in FM.

For this reason we rely heavily on the Scouts.

·We trust them. They may be rubbish, but they're all we've got for "first hand" experience.

·Players may be identified from media reports...and scouted, from games played against us...and scouted.

·No-one will be banned for scouring the transfer list, but it's generally frowned upon by LLM players. Players found that way would be scouted or trialled by the club, no manager in their right mind would sign a player based on a name on a list.

LLM doesn't mean leaving a team just because it's been promoted.

·A career should be followed like a real life one. Would a manager leave a club just because he's got it promoted? Maybe because another club comes in for him, but not because he's reached the Football League.

Start in the lowest possible division in any given nation

·Default leagues only. As the use of editors is not allowed in LLM, you can not start in a competition that has to be added via the editor
·This can mean the only division in the game (e.g. Wales)
·This does not mean The Championship, League 1 or League 2 in England - you should start in the Conference North or South, Conference Premier at a push.

There's an adage in LLM, "If you have to ask if you're cheating, then you very probably are"

·This is a good way to judge yourself whether what you're doing is LLM, just ask that question (regarding "cheating", signing players, scouting, looking at other teams) and think about what a real-life manager would or could do.


Parent/Feeder Clubs

·Please note, although they seem to be allowed in the game, that in the Home Nations and Germany Parent/Feeder Clubs are specifically banned by the FAs (within and between UK Home Nations), all Clubs must be independent to compete in the Leagues and Cups. This isn't an LLM Rule this is real life.

LLM and the Tactical Tipping and Good Players Guide

·The LLM style of play is mutually exclusive to the use of Tactical Tipping and Good Players Guide fora. The ethos is completely different and is incompatible with those styles of playing. If you want to post in those fora, good luck to you but it's incompatible with posting in here.



Keep it real, keep it LLM, and you won't go far wrong.

Good luck.



http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/31330-LLM-Guidelines-please-read-before-posting

Pauvre Con

I think the tenets of LLM are laudable. I play in a similar way although I would say when it comes to trawling through player lists that this is fine if attribute masking is used which I think realisticaly reflects the level of knowledge a manager would have given that in all probability they'd have spent a lifetime in the game. A manager would live and breathe the game and get information from a variety of sources so to use scout reporting exclusively is surely a little unrealistic - but certainly preferable to searching through a large database where every stat on every player is known.

PerrinV2

Pauvre Con wrote: »

I think the tenets of LLM are laudable. I play in a similar way although I would say when it comes to trawling through player lists that this is fine if attribute masking is used which I think realisticaly reflects the level of knowledge a manager would have given that in all probability they'd have spent a lifetime in the game. A manager would live and breathe the game and get information from a variety of sources so to use scout reporting exclusively is surely a little unrealistic - but certainly preferable to searching through a large database where every stat on every player is known.

Well its the lenght of time it would take which is the negative for me,which I get the game I want to start a few games with different teams in different divisions and that would just take too much time if I played fully by all the LLM restrictions.