Child dies in fall from apartment.

Optimalprimerib

BarnhallBull wrote: »

dharma200 wrote: »

The 'he' in question, was a 'she'

Apologies, I was more concerned with the fact it was 17 month old child than whether it was a boy or a girl

There could be another tragedy soon if you fall off your high horse. The only way the guardian could be blamed for this is if they actively pushed the child out the window. It takes one second, one lapse of judgement for this to happen. Maybe the window was closed and they underestimated the child's strength to open it, it is so so easy for things like this to happen.

up for anything

BarnhallBull wrote: »

If this, or something similar proves to be true then I will unreservedly apologise.

As Knex mentioned, this is a discussion forum, my opinion on this issue differs from the majority, some of whom have decided that throwing insults is the best way to refute what i've said.

Maybe i'm a cynic, or a "holier than thou jerk", but I would be very surprised if it doesn't come out that this happened as a result of negligence on someone's part. If not then i've said i'll admit i'm wrong and apologise. I won't bother with this thread until more facts are known.

RIP.

Why bother again at all, Mr Bull. :rolleyes:

M cebee

i wouldn't rush to judgement either
my 10yr old macgyver has picked the locks and removed chains from windows a couple of times

Grayson

M cebee wrote: »

i wouldn't rush to judgement either
my 10yr old macgyver has picked the locks and removed chains from windows a couple of times

You chain windows? Do you have a padlock on your car too?


With regards to the OP, there's no need to have a campaign regarding this. It was either due to some freak thing like weak glass as someone suggested. And how is a campaign going to help that? Get people to throw medium sized ricks at them and if they break replace them, if they don't you're grand.
Or it was due to negligence. And even negligence is a hard word to use. It's damn easy to turn your back for 30 seconds and have a kid pull something down or fall off something. Yes, technically it's the parents fault, but in a real world you can't spend every single second watching them.

Negligence should really only be used to describe a scenario where they left the child in a very dangerous scenario. Leaving a glass of orange juice coloured bleach in front of it for example.

I know someone who was on their way to meet friends and had to turn around and go home. His wife calls to say that she turned around and she'd found the kid licking ant killer off the ground. Thankfully it wasn't toxic. And when I think of the number of stupid things I did as a toddler it's lucky I'm still here.

Fizman

syndeyfife wrote: »

Holy moly. Im in a penthouse apartment and these stories freak me out.

Ive 2 safety locks and alarms on all my windows and doors.

Poor little girl such a horrific end!

Does it smell of rich mahogony, and do you have many leather-bound books?

M cebee

Grayson wrote: »

You chain windows? Do you have a padlock on your car too?


With regards to the OP, there's no need to have a campaign regarding this. It was either due to some freak thing like weak glass as someone suggested. And how is a campaign going to help that? Get people to throw medium sized ricks at them and if they break replace them, if they don't you're grand.
Or it was due to negligence. And even negligence is a hard word to use. It's damn easy to turn your back for 30 seconds and have a kid pull something down or fall off something. Yes, technically it's the parents fault, but in a real world you can't spend every single second watching them.

Negligence should really only be used to describe a scenario where they left the child in a very dangerous scenario. Leaving a glass of orange juice coloured bleach in front of it for example.

I know someone who was on their way to meet friends and had to turn around and go home. His wife calls to say that she turned around and she'd found the kid licking ant killer off the ground. Thankfully it wasn't toxic. And when I think of the number of stupid things I did as a toddler it's lucky I'm still here.

see post 47 idiot

downstairs locks
upstairs none

shar01

Unfortunately this type of tragedy may become all too frequent.

In our Celtic Tiger rush to throw up apartment blocks, we forgot about families.

People are less tolerant of kids playing on the street or on grassed areas - too quick to label it anti-social.

A solution which would work in council housing - get rid of the assumption your house is for life. When the children grow up and leave home, the parents move into an apartment - thus freeing up a 3/4 bed house with garden. Simplistic but you know what I mean.

Maybe it's a throw back to our colonial times - we need to "own" a plot of land.

Grayson

M cebee wrote: »

see post 47 idiot

downstairs locks
upstairs none

Idiot? Really, You're going to go there? You took a joke and decided to turn it into a name flinging contest?

BTW, i've never seen windows with chains on them. And you didn't reference that post earlier so i really hadn't a clue what you were talking about. But rather than explain it, you decided to go agressive.

Duiske

mikemac1 wrote: »

Do we need the State to get involved in everything?

It's not a solution OP

Maybe your right. The suggestion was probably a kneejerk reaction to a horrific story.

mydearwatson

From what I've read today, it seems that the child was left alone in the bedroom, with a large sash window left wide open. In a sixth floor apartment?! The mother was babysitting someone else's child in a different room.

There's a picture of the mother holding a photo of the child on the cover of some of the tabloids today (how you could pose for such a photo less than 24 hours after losing your child in such circumstances is beyond me, but to give her the benefit of the doubt, I'll assume she's in shock and wasn't thinking about what she was doing.)

To me, leaving a baby alone at such a height with a large window wide open seems like a mind-blowingly stupid thing to do. I'm not saying she's a bad parent - because I don't know of any malicious intent behind the whole incident - I'm just saying it was a very stupid thing for anyone in charge of a small child to do.

Jesus Shaves

I know it's been said already but you don't leave children unattended like that, whilst no one knows what happens I know if it was my child I'd blame myself for being so neglectful.

Zoria

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

I know it's been said already but you don't leave children unattended like that, whilst no one knows what happens I know if it was my child I'd blame myself for being so neglectful.

You have to be a wind up merchant. There is absolutely no way in hell a parent can have their eyes on their child around the clock. You can put up all the stair gates you like, safety plugs in walls all around you till your blue in the face, but they will still find a way to do themselves a mischief. At 17 months, a toddler is naturally inquisitive. Their strengths changes in the blink of an eye, so what you assume they can't do can change in a second.

Jesus Shaves

Zoria wrote: »

You have to be a wind up merchant. There is absolutely no way in hell a parent can have their eyes on their child around the clock. You can put up all the stair gates you like, safety plugs in walls all around you till your blue in the face, but they will still find a way to do themselves a mischief. At 17 months, a toddler is naturally inquisitive. Their strengths changes in the blink of an eye, so what you assume they can't do can change in a second.

Well a parent should have their eyes on their child around the clock, not only that windows should not be left open in a room that a child is in on it's own
But like I said we don't know the full story and probably never will

Zoria

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Well a parent should have their eyes on their child around the clock

Do you know how unrealistic that is? . I think it is an awful thing to just assume the parents or parent was being negligent without knowing the full story.

mydearwatson

Zoria wrote: »

You can put up all the stair gates you like, safety plugs in walls all around you till your blue in the face, but they will still find a way to do themselves a mischief. At 17 months, a toddler is naturally inquisitive. Their strengths changes in the blink of an eye, so what you assume they can't do can change in a second.

... but, from what's been reported, what happened here is that the mother in question didn't take even the most basic safety precautions.

I mean it's all well and good to say "the parents are being punished enough" - but, personally, I would very much like to see prosecutions in cases where children are killed/injured through parental negligence.

I saw a thread a couple of days ago about a new law enforcing seatbelts for children. Some posters mentioned having seen cars driving on the road with children standing up through the sunroof. If one of these cars crashed (even if it was the fault of another driver), and if the children were killed due to not having been restrained, should the parents in question not be punished for failure to protect the children appropriately?

I see no difference between this, and leaving an active toddler alone next to a wide open window in a sixth-floor apartment.

It was a terribly negligent dangerous thing to do. I don't see that she should be exempt from justice just because she's the child's mother - if this happened to a child at a creche etc, or even when a child was in the care of a friend/relative, the person responsible for the child at the time would probably be charged with negligence or similar. The fact that she's the child's mother shouldn't change anything in this regard.

leggo

mydearwatson wrote: »

I mean it's all well and good to say "the parents are being punished enough" - but, .

Stopped reading when you shrugged off the damage that losing a child can do. Her life is destroyed, end of story.

Oh wait...sorry, you read a story about it in a tabloid?? Well excuse me then, you're clearly well informed enough in making a perfectly reasonable judgement so...

What paper was she "posing" on the front of?

B.A._Baracus

Bad parenting.
I dont mean to be rude with that statement. But thats what it is. You dont leave a baby unattended.

This didnt happen because of the building in question or anything else. Simple bad parenting.


Rip to the child.

Jesus Shaves

Zoria wrote: »

Do you know how unrealistic that is? . I think it is an awful thing to just assume the parents or parent was being negligent without knowing the full story.

I have kids and it's not realistic at all, I've never had one fall out a window on me yet.

M cebee

Grayson wrote: »

You chain windows? Do you have a padlock on your car too?


With regards to the OP, there's no need to have a campaign regarding this. It was either due to some freak thing like weak glass as someone suggested. And how is a campaign going to help that? Get people to throw medium sized ricks at them and if they break replace them, if they don't you're grand.
Or it was due to negligence. And even negligence is a hard word to use. It's damn easy to turn your back for 30 seconds and have a kid pull something down or fall off something. Yes, technically it's the parents fault, but in a real world you can't spend every single second watching them.

Negligence should really only be used to describe a scenario where they left the child in a very dangerous scenario. Leaving a glass of orange juice coloured bleach in front of it for example.

I know someone who was on their way to meet friends and had to turn around and go home. His wife calls to say that she turned around and she'd found the kid licking ant killer off the ground. Thankfully it wasn't toxic. And when I think of the number of stupid things I did as a toddler it's lucky I'm still here.

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

I have kids and it's not realistic at all, I've never had one fall out a window on me yet.

nice

Zoria

mydearwatson wrote: »

... but, from what's been reported, what happened here is that the mother in question didn't take even the most basic safety precautions.

Maybe I don't have the most up to date information, so if you could kindly link me to it I would appreciate it. I've always hated the idea of babies and children in general being brought up in apartments for this reason. All it takes is a momentary lapse of concentration. It's not uncommon, sadly.

In a similar incident in April, a 21-month-old baby boy died after a fall from an apartment in Inchicore.

Article from here http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0804/1224321447036.html

Colmustard

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Bad parenting.
I dont mean to be rude with that statement. But thats what it is. You dont leave a baby unattended.

This didnt happen because of the building in question or anything else. Simple bad parenting.


Rip to the child.

I don't agree, you can't watch a child every instant and be to over protective that would be bad parenting. All children have falls and accidents you just hope they aren't bad ones.

I will concede that leaving a window open was foolish.

I have an awful image in my head as to how the child must have felt as it was falling.

dark crystal

mydearwatson wrote: »

I mean it's all well and good to say "the parents are being punished enough" - but, personally, I would very much like to see prosecutions in cases where children are killed/injured through parental negligence.

And what would locking up a grieving parent achieve exactly? Do you really believe the law is there to punish parents who have tragically lost their children in accidents?

Perhaps every A&E in the country could report all the parents whose children have managed to break a wrist on their bike, or fallen down the stairs after running to fast, or pulled a mug of hot tea down on themselves or broken their noses on a trampoline (as mine did). Get all the parents locked up and their children put into care.

Would that make for a better society, you think?

marshbaboon

Colmustard wrote: »

I don't agree, you can't watch a child every instant and be to over protective that would be bad parenting. All children have falls and accidents you just hope they aren't bad ones.

I will concede that leaving a window open was foolish.

I have an awful image in my head as to how the child must have felt as it was falling.

I know it's terrible, but all I can think of is Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy when you say that... Oh god I'm a bad man...

Jesus Shaves

dark crystal wrote: »

And what would locking up a grieving parent achieve exactly? Do you really believe the law is there to punish parents who have tragically lost their children in accidents?

Perhaps every A&E in the country could report all the parents whose children have managed to break a wrist on their bike, or fallen down the stairs after running to fast, or pulled a mug of hot tea down on themselves or broken their noses on a trampoline (as mine did). Get all the parents locked up and their children put into care.

Would that make for a better society, you think?

You're examples and what happened in this case are completely different, you can't even compare them.
Child neglect should be severely punished

Why do people start prattling on about 'awareness campaigns' every time an accident happens? I think most people have enough common sense to realise that babies should not be left unattended near windows they may be able to open and fall from. Most parents in the world who live in apartments (and this is the norm and many countries) manage to make sure their children don't fall out of the window.

hoochis

The majority of accidents are caused by someone’s neglect or stupidity. So who is to blame here? The toddler? Certainly not! A small bit of common sense could prevent so many accidents. If you have a stove/open fire then put a fire rail around it. Don’t leave children in bath on their own. Don’t leave children unattended on the sixth floor with a window open. I see it as manslaughter!

Dude111

This is quite sad

abouttobebanned wrote:

We don't know the facts of this case so maybe we should lay off blaming the parents already.

Well the window had to have been open WITH NO SCREEN IN IT which was totally stupid with a baby around!!

Duiske wrote:

I hope local authorities will consider launching a public awareness campaign about this danger.

Yes i definetly think it is a good idea!

dark crystal

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

You're examples and what happened in this case are completely different, you can't even compare them.
Child neglect should be severely punished

The poster I was replying to suggested prosecution of parents whose children had been killed or involved in an accident through 'negligence'.

It could be argued that most accidents that come through A&E are as a result of some form of negligence, in the sense that even the most diligent parent gets distracted at times or may leave the child without supervision for a short period.

I agree that child neglect should be punishable. However, most people are able to distinguish between sustained neglect and a one-off tragedy as this incident seems to be.

Jesus Shaves

A public awareness campaign is not the answer
Maybe give parenting classes for all parents

dark crystal

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

A public awareness campaign is not the answer
Maybe give parenting classes for all parents

Perhaps you could teach them?

Jesus Shaves

dark crystal wrote: »

The poster I was replying to suggested prosecution of parents whose children had been killed or involved in an accident through 'negligence'.

It could be argued that most accidents that come through A&E are as a result of some form of negligence, in the sense that even the most diligent parent gets distracted at times or may leave the child without supervision for a short period.

I agree that child neglect should be punishable. However, most people are able to distinguish between sustained neglect and a one-off tragedy as this incident seems to be.

A child falling on a trampoline or down the stairs is not negligence whereas a child falling out a window with the mother in the other room is, it's completely different

Jesus Shaves

dark crystal wrote: »

Perhaps you could teach them?

Perhaps not

dark crystal

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

A child falling on a trampoline or down the stairs is not negligence whereas a child falling out a window with the mother in the other room is, it's completely different

How so?

Each accident could be caused by a number of factors and each accident could potentially be fatal.

mydearwatson

leggo wrote: »

Stopped reading when you shrugged off the damage that losing a child can do. Her life is destroyed, end of story.

Oh wait...sorry, you read a story about it in a tabloid?? Well excuse me then, you're clearly well informed enough in making a perfectly reasonable judgement so...

Well the story was based on discussions with the mother (and they could hardly fake that, seeing as they had a photo of the mother.) According to the article, the mother was babysitting someone else's child, came into the bedroom, looked around it for the child (who was called Nicola), eventually thought to look out the window, and saw her baby on the ground. She had left the window open.

I sure as hell don't trust tabloids, but to be fair, if they were talking to the mother, I'm sure they at least have the general gist of it correct. I'm sure the full facts will come out in time.

Deleted User wrote: »

What paper was she "posing" on the front of?

She wasn't "posing", she was just posing. I don't know what else you'd call it? I'm not trying to be offensive ... she was standing there holding up a photo of her child, it's hardly a natural shot, it was a posed photo.

I think it might have been the Herald, I'm really not sure. If you try a newagents you might find a copy of the paper in question. I didn't buy it.

dark crystal wrote: »

The poster I was replying to suggested prosecution of parents whose children had been killed or involved in an accident through 'negligence'.

It could be argued that most accidents that come through A&E are as a result of some form of negligence, in the sense that even the most diligent parent gets distracted at times or may leave the child without supervision for a short period.

I agree that child neglect should be punishable. However, most people are able to distinguish between sustained neglect and a one-off tragedy as this incident seems to be.

A line has to be drawn somewhere, though.

If this was some freak accident where, I don't know, the window frame had broken or something, it might be different. But it's not - the window was left wide open while the child was left alone in the room. I don't see how this isn't dangerously neglectful.

mydearwatson

mydearwatson wrote: »

She wasn't "posing", she was just posing. I don't know what else you'd call it? I'm not trying to be offensive ... she was standing there holding up a photo of her child, it's hardly a natural shot, it was a posed photo.

Was it the child who died?

mydearwatson

Deleted User wrote: »

Was it the child who died?

Yes, according to the article.

mydearwatson

mydearwatson wrote: »

Yes, according to the article.

Oh right. Just here you suggest she was somehow "posing" for the papers.

mydearwatson wrote: »

(how you could pose for such a photo less than 24 hours after losing your child in such circumstances is beyond me, but to give her the benefit of the doubt, I'll assume she's in shock and wasn't thinking about what she was doing.)

Unless she was pictured with the dead child, then what on earth were you talking about?

mydearwatson

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh right. Just here you suggest she was somehow "posing" for the papers.

Yes. She was posing for the photos. For the paper. I'm not sure why you're putting in the inverted comma yokes.

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless she was pictured with the dead child, then what on earth were you talking about?

No ... as per my earlier posts, she was pictured holding a photo of the child.

Zoria

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

A child falling on a trampoline or down the stairs is not negligence whereas a child falling out a window with the mother in the other room is, it's completely different

What about the mother that is preparing older kids for school while the toddler sleeps in its cot. Wakes up while she is preparing breakfast for said older children. Toddler gets inquisitive and looks out the window. Sees children on the street and opens window and climbs out to get to them. What now? Perhaps a one room house is the way forward here, where the mother can keep a sharp eye on her children at all times..

mydearwatson

mydearwatson wrote: »

Yes. She was posing for the photos. For the paper. I'm not sure why you're putting in the inverted comma yokes.

No ... as per my earlier posts, she was pictured holding a photo of the child.

Well I sincerely apologise. I misread your post. My fault completely.

What I will say though is I know personally how these papers work, particularly the Herald and the likes, and I know how they call to your door and make out like they care about you and they want to tell the world of your tragedy, and in your vulnerable state, you believe them.

Jesus Shaves

Zoria wrote: »

What about the mother that is preparing older kids for school while the toddler sleeps in its cot. Wakes up while she is preparing breakfast for said older children. Toddler gets inquisitive and looks out the window. Sees children on the street and opens window and climbs out to get to them. What now? Perhaps a one room house is the way forward here, where the mother can keep a sharp eye on her children at all times..

Safety locks on the window, don't put the cot near the window
It's common sense really

hawkelady

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Zoria wrote: »

What about the mother that is preparing older kids for school while the toddler sleeps in its cot. Wakes up while she is preparing breakfast for said older children. Toddler gets inquisitive and looks out the window. Sees children on the street and opens window and climbs out to get to them. What now? Perhaps a one room house is the way forward here, where the mother can keep a sharp eye on her children at all times..

Safety locks on the window, don't put the cot near the window
It's common sense really

Jesus, you have an answer for everything!!
Your failing to live up to your username with your obvious lack of compassion. Can you honestly not feel the hurt/ what- if's the parents are going through.

Zoria

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Safety locks on the window, don't put the cot near the window
It's common sense really

I revert back to my earlier comment about a childs development. It can quickly change in terms of what they can reach etc. I think you're being way to hard. Does anyone know if she had any other children? I'm looking for articles here and I can't find anything.

Bruthal

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

I have kids and it's not realistic at all, I've never had one fall out a window on me yet.

So, anyone who has kids and nothing has happened them so far, is now immune to accidents. Very good.

Duiske

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

I have kids and it's not realistic at all, I've never had one fall out a window on me yet.

Sure how could your kids have an accident ? From reading your previous post its obvious that you never take your eyes off your kids, even for a split second. Leaves me wondering how you have survived all this time with no sleep.

Jesus Shaves

robbie7730 wrote: »

So, anyone who has kids and nothing has happened them so far, is now immune to accidents. Very good.

Did I say that, don't put words in my mouth

Jesus Shaves

hawkelady wrote: »

Jesus, you have an answer for everything!!
Your failing to live up to your username with your obvious lack of compassion. Can you honestly not feel the hurt/ what- if's the parents are going through.

The answers are obvious, it's cases like this that make parents be more careful, like I said common sense goes a long way, pity some people don't have it

Bruthal

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Did I say that, don't put words in my mouth

You said you had not had any kids fall out windows. Was that not to indicate you are a great parent?

jessiejam

Regardless of fault/blame a baby has died.
I'm shocked at the lack of sympathy on this thread.

RIP little one xx