Herald Says "best fans in the world" a myth * Mod Note #53 *

born2bwild

CSF wrote: »

Well I don't think its compulsory for people from Belarus to go to LOI games to be a real fan, but after that I think you get the point.

Even fans from Belarus are real - I've met some.

Richard Hillman

monkey9 wrote: »

Hannover 96 though, not a bad side at all. But fair enough, the swimming and archery was on!!

It was never going to be a game though. Pats were showing no form at all in Europe. They scraped through against an Icelandic team and just about beat a Bosnian team nobody had ever heard of (i couldnt even tell you their name now). The only question for me was if Hannover were going to beat the -1 handicap which they duly obliged

Hannover are a decent side and i like my Bundesliga but they are not somebody i would get up off my bum to go and see. If i was going to watch a one sided sporting contest it would have to be somebody that you knew would put on a great display like Madrid or Barcelona. Pats v Hannover was like the athletics equivalent of Paul Hession V Dwayne Chambers in the European B championships.

monkey9

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It was never going to be a game though. Pats were showing no form at all in Europe. They scraped through against an Icelandic team and just about beat a Bosnian team nobody had ever heard of (i couldnt even tell you their name now). The only question for me was if Hannover were going to beat the -1 handicap which they duly obliged

Hannover are a decent side and i like my Bundesliga but they are not somebody i would get up off my bum to go and see. If i was going to watch a one sided sporting contest it would have to be somebody that you knew would put on a great display like Madrid or Barcelona. Pats v Hannover was like the athletics equivalent of Paul Hession V Dwayne Chambers in the European B championships.

Well, if you had gone to the match, you would have been entertained. The Irish team were superb. It's a bit sad you call it one sided, but as you weren't there, you obviously haven't an iota.

Your post is ignorant beyond belief and you don't even know it. But enjoy the Olympics all the same.

applehunter

Hailee Salty Revolver wrote: »

all this has to be taken into context i went to see cork city play nantes in france a few years ago and it was a lot of fun but the league of irelands quality is incredibly low we are so close to england that any half decent player will be snapped up and given a chance over there leaving us mostly with either very young players or old players who never made it in england.

its great to see st pats get 3000 people out thats a lot of people at the game if you consider the amount of teams in dublin and the standard of the league.

il go to a city game every now and again but loi will never get the same attendances as english clubs because they either get to see world class players week in week out or they have the opportunity to be promoted/bought by a seik and do so. loi football is pretty low standard and always will be simply because we are so close to a football superpower

They were exciting times.

Some superb players playing for City back then.

Doyle goal is 7.00.

stovelid

Roger Sterling wrote: »

If the league did improve and more people went to games I bet the old LOI die hards would be the first to complain that the new breed of fan havent a clue and it ws al beter back in the day when the stand was half empty.

Not really. Shamrock Rovers have picked up a load of new young supporters that are very committed to supporting the team.

Slagging fair weather supporters goes on in all leagues. It's not like Liverpool or united supporters don't do it.

These threads are a waste of time anyway. The vast majority of people that don't go will. never go and will perform all manner of mental gymnastics to justify not doing so .

Lord TSC

The vast majority of people that don't go will. never go and will perform all manner of mental gymnastics to justify not doing so .

I find it's more some of the people who get annoyed with people not going are the ones preforming mental gymnastics in trying to come up with excuses. Blaming it on the Olympics or people not being real fans.

The majority of people who aren't going aren't making excuses beyond "I'm not interested and don't enjoy it".

LuckyLloyd

monkey9 wrote: »

Hannover 96 though, not a bad side at all. But fair enough, the swimming and archery was on!!

Everytime you repeat this it is ****ing laughable. Ye do yourselves no favours.

lordgoat

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Everytime you repeat this it is ****ing laughable. Ye do yourselves no favours.

More shots on target during the swimming anyway LL!!

LuckyLloyd

monkey9 wrote: »

Well, if you had gone to the match, you would have been entertained. The Irish team were superb. It's a bit sad you call it one sided, but as you weren't there, you obviously haven't an iota.

Your post is ignorant beyond belief and you don't even know it. But enjoy the Olympics all the same.

No they weren't. They got very comfortably beat by a team in third gear. The attempt to portray Pat's performance as "brilliant" is all a bit sad I'm afraid.

gustavo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No they weren't. They got very comfortably beat by a team in third gear. The attempt to portray Pat's performance as "brilliant" is all a bit sad I'm afraid.

So you didn't think Pat's played well ?

LuckyLloyd

gustavo wrote: »

So you didn't think Pat's played well ?

No I don't as I argued in the match thread.

Nalz

Xavi6 wrote: »

I disagree, laziness isn't the issue.

Irish people are event junkies. It's why everyone went to Poland but won't go to the Aviva for a game against a 'minnow'. It's why there's an exodus to the Premier League/SPL every weekend but the doorstep football is ignored.

And it's not just football either, the Gah and rugby supporters are the exact same. Just the way it is sadly.

Exactly

ShooterSF

monkey9 wrote: »

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Who cares about who has the 'best fans'? It's entirely subjective. I watch football for enjoyment, not so I can feel like I am superior to others. I'm loving the Olympics for what it's worth.



How is this 'proper football' exactly? And if people found entertainment at home rather than at the ground, isn't that the crux of the problem? The lack of entertainment they perceive they will have there in contrast to their own home?

Articles and opinions like this smack of a real inferiority complex. They contain no logic. They bemoan the symptoms of the problem rather than addressing the issue.

It's the equivalent of Alan Partridge standing at an empty stall in a station yelling at passers-by for not stopping to buy his book.

Every Irish football fan's reason for not going to see a LOI team last night was struck down. Completely struck down.

There's no excuses anymore. If you prefer to watch matches on tv rather than go to them,then that's fair enough!

Why should I travel down to dublin to watch a match between 2 teams, neither of which i follow? I follow the national team sofor them id travel and I follow man united and am actually travelling to hannover to watch them play.
Why do people assume that Irish people should support irish clubs? I have no more local link to an loi team than a foreign one and I dont support teams for rational reasons, rather emotional.

So anyway that's your laziness argument out the window.

Sanity_Saviour

CSF wrote: »

Well I don't think its compulsory for people from Belarus to go to LOI games to be a real fan, but after that I think you get the point.

That's a hilariously pathetic argument.

CSF

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

That's a hilariously pathetic argument.

To which you've given no counterargument. Anyone can dismiss an argument claiming it to be so ridiculous that it doesn't warrant a response, anyone, about anything. It doesn't make them even close to right.

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

To which you've given no counterargument. Anyone can dismiss an argument claiming it to be so ridiculous that it doesn't warrant a response, anyone, about anything. It doesn't make them even close to right.

Your position: 'anyone who doesn't regularly attend LOI games in this country cannot be classed as a real fan'

Problem is the majority of people who enjoy football in this country don't give a **** what you think. So, you lose. Where does pushing the above get you, even if you are convinced you are "right"?

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Your position: 'anyone who doesn't regularly attend LOI games in this country cannot be classed as a real fan'

Problem is the majority of people who enjoy football in this country don't give a **** what you think. So, you lose. Where does pushing the above get you, even if you are convinced you are "right"?

I haven't exactly been pushing been this argument very far, I just clarified someone elses argument when someone else was trying to pick holes.

I haven't exactly been making gigantic efforts to be 'right', so thankfully I don't give a **** whether these people give a **** what I think, especially those posters whose postings I've never been overly enamoured with, like yourself for instance.

bohsman

Someone that goes to their teams home and away games is a bigger/better fan than someone who only goes to their home games is a better fan than someone who watches their games on the telly is a better fan than someone who can name a few players and tells everyone that they support them. Not sure what the big problem with that is and I am very much towards the bottom end of that scale these days. People who are embarrassed by their country aren't going to go to games whether LOI fans are nice to them or abuse them so this is all pointless.

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

especially those posters whose postings I've never been overly enamoured with, like yourself for instance.

That doesn't bother me.

bohsman wrote: »

Someone that goes to their teams home and away games is a bigger/better fan than someone who only goes to their home games is a better fan than someone who watches their games on the telly is a better fan than someone who can name a few players and tells everyone that they support them. Not sure what the big problem with that is and I am very much towards the bottom end of that scale these days. People who are embarrassed by their country aren't going to go to games whether LOI fans are nice to them or abuse them so this is all pointless.

Exactly - enjoy football how you see fit.

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That doesn't bother me.

Grand, we're together on that so

If someone goes to 10 summer league matches over the course of a month while someone else goes to 4 LoI matches in the same timeframe who's the bigger fan?

bohsman

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone goes to 10 summer league matches over the course of a month while someone else goes to 4 LoI matches in the same timeframe who's the bigger fan?

If that's 10/10 in the summer league and 4/4 in the LOI Summer league it's even. If someone decided to watch the Olympics instead of going to a game they lose points.

CSF

What is a summer league?

bohsman

CSF wrote: »

What is a summer league?

No idea but if he's handing money over to go to games and follows the team year round fair play to him.

cson

Xavi6 wrote: »

I disagree, laziness isn't the issue.

Irish people are event junkies. It's why everyone went to Poland but won't go to the Aviva for a game against a 'minnow'. It's why there's an exodus to the Premier League/SPL every weekend but the doorstep football is ignored.

And it's not just football either, the Gah and rugby supporters are the exact same. Just the way it is sadly.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

This thread makes me embarrassed to follow LOI football. It would actually turn myself off the LOI ffs and thats from somebody who has been following the league intently since the old Sunday sport on RTE days.

People just have to accept, we have a rubbish league. Everything is half assed about it. The players dont give a toss, the officials are corrupt, the managers are like used car sales men and the people running the clubs couldnt run a church raffle. If i didnt support a certain club, theres not a chance in hell i would waste 15 euro in to see it. Yes i would keep up to date with it, but attending? not a chance. Why would anyone who isnt attached to a club actually pay to go to see it?

Then there is "football fan culture" :pac: A made up phrase to make yourselves feel special. You's are like indie hipsters and you know it will kill you to see the LOI being genuinely popular.

Our league is pants, accept it. It gets the right amount of attendances and media coverage. Stop whinging and just enjoy what we have.

Those two posts are so bang on the money.

Ah so now it's money that's important. :pac:

8-10

Buttonftw wrote: »

Ah so now it's money that's important. :pac:

What's important is that LoI fans support their teams, EPL fans support their teams, and everybody gets behind the national side in the WC qualifiers and shuts up about dick-measuring between each other

bohsman

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah so now it's money that's important. :pac:

Money of importance in football? Never! :pac:

Lord TSC

bohsman wrote: »

Someone that goes to their teams home and away games is a bigger/better fan than someone who only goes to their home games is a better fan than someone who watches their games on the telly is a better fan than someone who can name a few players and tells everyone that they support them.

This is nonsense to me. I've known some teenagers, for example, who are massive fans of teams and would be far more knowledgeable about clubs than me, but obviously don't have the money nor means to be attending the games of the clubs they support. Trying to put a financial aspect (and that's what calling someone who goes to loads of games a "better" fan boils down to) is nonsense.

Does this mean, for example, a business man who gets to go to a game because he got a free ticket or was part of a business group but has no clue about the club is a bigger and better fan than the person who follows the club passionately, buys what merch they can, follows news and gossip obsessively but cannot afford to or doesn't have the means to go to games?

Gavin "shels"

8-10 wrote: »

What's important is that LoI fans support their teams, EPL fans support their teams, and everybody gets behind the national side in the WC qualifiers and shuts up about dick-measuring between each other

You'd actually find a lot of LoI fans don't support Ireland, mainly do to the FAI, John Delaney, etc...

bohsman

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

This is nonsense to me. I've known some teenagers, for example, who are massive fans of teams and would be far more knowledgeable about clubs than me, but obviously don't have the money nor means to be attending the games of the clubs they support. Trying to put a financial aspect (and that's what calling someone who goes to loads of games a "better" fan boils down to) is nonsense.

Does this mean, for example, a business man who gets to go to a game because he got a free ticket or was part of a business group but has no clue about the club is a bigger and better fan than the person who follows the club passionately, buys what merch they can, follows news and gossip obsessively but cannot afford to or doesn't have the means to go to games?

It is fact though, I used to support Man U and thought about moving over there for college, I have no doubt that if I still supported them I'd be living in Manchester. I currently live in Malta so am not getting to many games, that's my choice and people living in Dublin going to games are bigger fans than me.

Welease

bohsman wrote: »

It is fact though, I used to support Man U and thought about moving over there for college, I have no doubt that if I still supported them I'd be living in Manchester. I currently live in Malta so am not getting to many games, that's my choice and people living in Dublin going to games are bigger fans than me.

Depends on what your definition of fan is, and it would appear some people have a rather strange definition of fan. The reality is some folks are LOI fans, some folks are EPL fans, EFL fans, SPL fans, and some folks work their arses off putting together local amateur clubs.. All are football fans.. real fans.

You could attend games in Malta, you could watch amatuer local games, you could run/help out at kids games, you could play local league football.. all of these things are done by real fans who have never and will never set foot in a LOI ground.

This discussion has gone beyond redicilous now (not your comment in particular). Just because someone attends a specific level of local football doesnt make them a "real" fan.. It makes them a fan of that type of football nothing more nothing less.

LuckyLloyd

Gavin shels wrote: »

You'd actually find a lot of LoI fans don't support Ireland, mainly do to the FAI, John Delaney, etc...

That's their problem and loss tbh.

stovelid

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That's their problem and loss tbh.

But surely we are free to consume or not consume football as we see fit

LuckyLloyd

stovelid wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That's their problem and loss tbh.

But surely we are free to consume or not consume football as we see fit

Ha!

I promise to not preach at you if you don't join me in Landsdowne if you promise not to preach at me when I miss a few UCD games!

Ferris_Bueller

Gavin shels wrote: »

Over 16,000 people in Thomand Park tonight to see a second string Man City side play a First Division League of Ireland side! EVENT JUNKIES!

I hope this was sarcasm. 1) I'm sure this will be a nice cash boost to Limerick FC, in which case we should welcome these so called "event junkies". 2) Surely getting these "event junkies" at a game where a LoI team is playing is a good thing, even if only 50 of them go to Limerick games more now, it is 50 more than they didn't have before.

We should be encouraging people to go to games, not knocking them and branding them "event junkies".

SantryRed

8-10 wrote: »

What's important is that LoI fans support their teams, EPL fans support their teams, and everybody gets behind the national side in the WC qualifiers and shuts up about dick-measuring between each other

Why should everybody get behind them in the qualifiers? Think I'll support Brazil for this World Cup.

8-10

SantryRed wrote: »

8-10 wrote: »

What's important is that LoI fans support their teams, EPL fans support their teams, and everybody gets behind the national side in the WC qualifiers and shuts up about dick-measuring between each other

Why should everybody get behind them in the qualifiers? Think I'll support Brazil for this World Cup.

They aren't in the qualifiers, they host.

Guy:Incognito

SantryRed wrote: »

8-10 wrote: »

What's important is that LoI fans support their teams, EPL fans support their teams, and everybody gets behind the national side in the WC qualifiers and shuts up about dick-measuring between each other

Why should everybody get behind them in the qualifiers? Think I'll support Brazil for this World Cup.

Are you not obliged to support the team most local to you?

SantryRed

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Are you not obliged to support the team most local to you?

Look, I'm not getting involved in this crap. But for 8-10 to say that LOI fans support their teams, and EPL support their teams but then everyone should follow Ireland in the qualifiers, I think it's hugely hypocritical.

CSF

SantryRed wrote: »

Look, I'm not getting involved in this crap. But for 8-10 to say that LOI fans support their teams, and EPL support their teams but then everyone should follow Ireland in the qualifiers, I think it's hugely hypocritical.

Of course it is, but any valid point will be quickly jumped at with a whinge of 'don't tell me who to support'

Lord TSC

CSF wrote: »

Of course it is, but any valid point will be quickly jumped at with a whinge of 'don't tell me who to support'

Right, cause freedom of choice is whinging now :rolleyes:

CSF

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Right, cause freedom of choice is whinging now :rolleyes:

Everyone has freedom of choice. Everyone also has the right to an opinion. These forums are platforms for those opinions. Responding to these opinions with 'I can do what I want' as opposed to reasoned debate isn't really how forums work and is a little bit juvenile.

Of course, if some random LOI fan comes up to you on the street and starts lecturing you, you're completely correct to tell him to **** off. But when you enter a 'best fans in the world a myth' thread on an internet forum, you know what you're getting yourself into, and should be prepared accordingly.

Lord TSC

CSF wrote: »

Responding to these opinions with 'I can do what I want' as opposed to reasoned debate isn't really how forums work and is a little bit juvenile.

Boiling it down to those few words obviously makes the argument look weak, but when the question is "Why don't people go to LOI games?", of course "Because people don't want to" is a valid and reasonable excuse. The reason some people may try and paint it as a weak argument is because, ultimately, they know there's not really any way to argue against it because it is completely valid given the discussion at hand. There's been expansions on that point as well; people are giving more detailed reasons and reasonable debate, but the personal decision not to go because we don't want to is what it all boils down to, and to give out its a weak stand point is simply to resort to a weak standpoint as well....

CSF

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Boiling it down to those few words obviously makes the argument look weak, but when the question is "Why don't people go to LOI games?", of course "Because people don't want to" is a valid and reasonable excuse. The reason some people may try and paint it as a weak argument is because, ultimately, they know there's not really any way to argue against it because it is completely valid given the discussion at hand. There's been expansions on that point as well; people are giving more detailed reasons and reasonable debate, but the personal decision not to go because we don't want to is what it all boils down to, and to give out its a weak stand point is simply to resort to a weak standpoint as well....

But the argument isn't 'why don't people go to LOI games'. If it was, I could name you hundred reasons, and they'd probably balance reflecting negatively equal on the clubs themselves, the FAI and the Irish people.

The discussion was in relation to how to define a fan of a particular club/team. I don't really like the term 'real' but historically a fan of a club was someone who went to the games. I missed the memo when that turned into being as casual a term as to someone who may only check the results in the paper on Sunday morning. For me, fans are as they always were.

Lord TSC

I guess thats the difference.

To me, a fan is someone who shows a real passion for a club; not someone judged on the amount of money they spend but by how much they love the club.

CSF

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I guess thats the difference.

To me, a fan is someone who shows a real passion for a club; not someone judged on the amount of money they spend but by how much they love the club.

The only reason tickets are this expensive in the first place is because of the daytrippers.

But that aside, when did the term 'football fan' change from something very definite to whatever someone wants it to be to suit them.

born2bwild

8-10 wrote: »

What's important is that LoI fans support their teams, EPL fans support their teams, and everybody gets behind the national side in the WC qualifiers and shuts up about dick-measuring between each other

Which national side should people living in this country support?

Given that so many people on this island identify with English clubs (evidenced by the use of 'us' and 'we' in discussions about 'their' teams) it would be logically more consistent for these fans to support England.

Have we the best fans in the world?

We certainly have the most illogical and inconsistent ones anyway.

I have nothing against English football (domestic or international - indeed I always cheer for England at international level because they're our neighbours).

The EPL is entertaining and worth a look every now and then but it's not my league and England is not my country.

Richard Hillman

I think Ireland Boxing fans are now being touted the "Greatest fans in the world ©" :pac:

Lord TSC

born2bwild wrote: »

Which national side should people living in this country support?

I'm 25, unemployed and don't drink alcohol. My country ****ing hates me, so that makes my decisions so much easier when national season comes round :P