Migrant workers demand new residency scheme

Notorioux

THE Irish Migrant Rights Centre today presented over 4,000 signatures to the Department of Justice calling for a new way for undocumented workers to earn residency rights here.

The petition has urged the Government to introduce an "earned residency scheme" where undocumented migrants can apply for legal status after five years.

A spokesperson for the campaign said that there were currently 30,000 undocumented people currently living in the Ireland.

They come from a wide range of countries including Brazil, the Philippines and Pakistan.

Around 30 people, including a number of undocumented migrants, presented the petition to the minister's special advisor at the department headquarters.

There is currently no process to allow undocumented migrants, such as those still working here despite an expired visa, to gain regularisation.

Source: http://www.independent.ie/national-n...e-3173005.html

What are your thoughts about this? IMO, They're in no position to demand anything if they're here illegally.

Lumbo

Once we're not giving them a **** load of welfare and they're not criminals from their country of origin I don't care what documents we give them. If they're here to make a contribution they're more than welcome.

alastair

Notorioux wrote: »

What are your thoughts about this? IMO, They're in no position to demand anything if they're here illegally.

I'm not seeing anything about 'demands'. It's a petition.
We were lobbying for an amnesty for the undocumented Irish in the US not too long ago. Same meal, different plate.

Recessionbust

They have no right to make any demands, if they work or contribute to the state then fine in saying that they need to spend what they earn in this country rather then sending it home and packing up and leaving in a few years, Christ you think those ass holes in Dail would have learned there lesson, where did most of our legal immigrants go when the money ran out? Back to there country where they had stashed there money leaving Dublin airport with more cars belonging to the bank then a Saturday afternoon auction! Demands? They have a cheek

Hilly Bill

Basically they want anyone who has got away with living here illegally for five years to be given the right to stay. Its stupid.

Bannasidhe

alastair wrote: »

I'm not seeing anything about 'demands'. It's a petition.
We were lobbying for an amnesty for the undocumented Irish in the US not too long ago. Same meal, different plate.

Exactly what I was going to say.

alastair

Recessionbust wrote: »

They have no right to make any demands
... Demands? They have a cheek

They're not making any demands.

Super Poppa Smurf

As a migrant who has always followed the rule of the law, I do not think these folks should get amnesty. It is not right for folks like me who stand in lines with proper documentation and letters of reference over the years to rightly seek the right to stay within the state by legal means. It would be slap on the cheek for nurses, doctors, IT professionals, accountants, etc who all reside in the state as legal migrants. We have done things by the book, contributed to the economy, paid our taxes, and when the time is right as set by Irish law will become naturalized Irish citizens. There has to be a rule of law or this nation will change and we will not know what hit us. I would not be able to do my job without proper documentation so how do these folks still have jobs (when we have such high employment!!!). All I ask is that the legal migrants do not forgotten for their contribution to the state and be recognized for following the rule of the law.

VEN

Lumbo wrote: »

Once we're not giving them a **** load of welfare and they're not criminals from their country of origin I don't care what documents we give them. If they're here to make a contribution they're more than welcome.

contributing, how? don't say tax unless it's a stolen pps no. working a legal citizens job for little pay.
criminals from another country, some job there trying to stop that one getting through, this is after all irish border police and immigration control we're talking about - a laughing joke.

Boombastic

30,000 - How many boat loads is that out of the country?


Perfect weather conditions today. 4 to 24 rising slowly I believe.

alastair

VEN wrote: »

contributing, how? don't say tax unless it's a stolen pps no. working a legal citizens job for little pay.
criminals from another country, some job there trying to stop that one getting through, this is after all irish border police and immigration control we're talking about - a laughing joke.

Like all the undocumented Irish in the US are criminals?

The actual case as presented by the MRCI:

Ireland has the opportunity to provide a fair and responsible solution to this situation by introducing an Earned Regularisation Scheme which would benefit undocumented migrants, their families and Irish society.

This scheme would give undocumented people and their families living in Ireland a window of opportunity to come forward and earn their way to permanent residency status. Upon registering for the scheme and paying a fine, eligible applicants would be granted a temporary residency status. Then individuals would work their way to earning permanent residency status by meeting specific criteria such as working, paying taxes and contributing to the community, over a limited time period.

Earned regularisation is not an amnesty. It is earned over time as opposed to being rewarded automatically. It is a pragmatic solution which considers both the rights and responsibilities of undocumented migrants, and the Irish state. International migration experts consider earned regularisation as the most effective model to respond to the undocumented situation. They also point out that any potential pull factor in terms of irregular migration is likely to be minor relative to other factors, such as the labour market and family reunion.

VEN

alastair wrote: »

Like all the undocumented Irish in the US are criminals?

replying to Lumbo's comment, as long as "they're not criminals from their country of origin"

SocSocPol

Notorioux wrote: »

THE Irish Migrant Rights Centre today presented over 4,000 signatures to the Department of Justice calling for a new way for undocumented workers to earn residency rights here.

The petition has urged the Government to introduce an "earned residency scheme" where undocumented migrants can apply for legal status after five years.

A spokesperson for the campaign said that there were currently 30,000 undocumented people currently living in the Ireland.

They come from a wide range of countries including Brazil, the Philippines and Pakistan.

Around 30 people, including a number of undocumented migrants, presented the petition to the minister's special advisor at the department headquarters.

There is currently no process to allow undocumented migrants, such as those still working here despite an expired visa, to gain regularisation.

Source: http://www.independent.ie/national-n...e-3173005.html

What are your thoughts about this? IMO, They're in no position to demand anything if they're here illegally.

The only one using the "Demand" word is you, in an attempt no doubt to lead to an inflamed debate!

Sappa

What about the migrants who spend thousands coming here doing everything by the law and this crowd want to break the rules to suit them.
Nope stick to the rules and you can stay otherwise it's a farce.

Hilly Bill

alastair wrote: »

Like all the undocumented Irish in the US are criminals?

The actual case as presented by the MRCI:

Why cant they just play by the rules like everyone else? All Illegals should be deported from the country they are in including the Irish in the US and Aus.

Notorioux

SocSocPol wrote: »

The only one using the "Demand" word is you, in an attempt no doubt to lead to an inflamed debate!

I only copied everything on that link

Recessionbust

Demand or petition they have no right if they are illegal, imagine them doin this in the UK? They wouldn't because before they had the paper on the desk the nice people and passsort control would have them on the 5.45 from Dover.
We missed a great opportunity here, we could have rounded up 30,000 people and deported them with min effort ah well maybe next time

VEN

alastair wrote: »

They're not making any demands.

no of course not, they're just having the craic

Hilly Bill

Recessionbust wrote: »

Demand or petition they have no right if they are illegal, imagine them doin this in the UK? They wouldn't because before they had the paper on the desk the nice people and passsort control would have them on the 5.45 from Dover.
We missed a great opportunity here, we could have rounded up 30,000 people and deported them with min effort ah well maybe next time

Going by the Border agency prog on sky,they tell any illegals they catch to report to the immigration centre and let them go. It comes up at the end of the show that the person never showed up and is missing again .

P.C.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

alastair wrote: »

Like all the undocumented Irish in the US are criminals?

The actual case as presented by the MRCI:

Why cant they just play by the rules like everyone else? All Illegals should be deported from the country they are in including the Irish in the US and Aus.

If all the undocumented Irish in the US came back to Ireland, this country would bankrupt the whole EU.

And it would sink.

Hilly Bill

P.C. wrote: »

If all the undocumented Irish in the US came back to Ireland, this country would bankrupt the whole EU.

And it would sink.

Maybe they will put any skill they learnt there and start up a business . Its simple, if they have outstayed their welcome then send them home.

alastair

Notorioux wrote: »

I only copied everything on that link

Then it's the Indo trying to stoke things up. What a surprise.

SocSocPol

Notorioux wrote: »

I only copied everything on that link

Thats a lie!
Nowhere in that petition presented or the cooments by those making it does the word DEMAND appear.

Boombastic

Easiest workable solution I can come up with


Change the sign on Rosslare port to 'Migrant worker amnesty Hall', they'll be queuing up to get in;)

alastair

VEN wrote: »

no of course not, they're just having the craic

Demands ---- Craic

Nothing in between those two possibilities then?

The King of Moo

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Why cant they just play by the rules like everyone else? All Illegals should be deported from the country they are in including the Irish in the US and Aus.

That's exactly what the proposed scheme is all about. Did you read what alastair quoted from the proposal above? Those wishing to avail of it must pay a fine, then meet conditions such as working, paying taxes and contributing to the community. They have to earn their residency.

Jesus, this is exactly the kind of thing people call for on AH ("it's fine if they come here to work and contribute, etc."), but people are still twisting it into a "cheek of dem fordiners, comin over here and makin demands of us" case, though that's probably largely due to a very biased OP.

Notorioux

SocSocPol wrote: »

Thats a lie!
Nowhere in that petitio presented or the cooments by those making it does the word DEMAND appear.

It clearly says on the link title the word "Demand":rolleyes:

super_furry

It's pretty much what the Irish are looking for in the States. As long as people are working, paying taxes and contributing to society, they should be allowed stay.

Boombastic

People working illegally are taking our jobs, next they'll be after our women :P


Why are we pandering to these people when they show such disregard for our laws? There was a legal route they could have went down but they chose to ignore it - The consequences of their choice must be enforced i.e. remove them from the country asap.

Morlar

SocSocPol wrote: »

Thats a lie!
Nowhere in that petition presented or the cooments by those making it does the word DEMAND appear.

Migrant workers demand new residency scheme

Source : http://www.independent.ie/national-news/migrant-workers-demand-new-residency-scheme-3173005.html

Do you really need to derail the thread with this nonsense ?

alastair

Morlar wrote: »

Source : http://www.independent.ie/national-news/migrant-workers-demand-new-residency-scheme-3173005.html

Do you really need to derail the thread with this nonsense ?

It's pretty pertinent, given that nobody is demanding anything.

Uriel.

The King of Moo wrote: »

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Why cant they just play by the rules like everyone else? All Illegals should be deported from the country they are in including the Irish in the US and Aus.

That's exactly what the proposed scheme is all about. Did you read what alastair quoted from the proposal above? Those wishing to avail of it must pay a fine, then meet conditions such as working, paying taxes and contributing to the community. They have to earn their residency.

Jesus, this is exactly the kind of thing people call for on AH ("it's fine if they come here to work and contribute, etc."), but people are still twisting it into a "cheek of dem fordiners, comin over here and makin demands of us" case, though that's probably largely due to a very biased OP.

So essentially pay for residency is what they want?

Sorry but I really just think If you have gained illegal access or the legal access you were granted has expired then it's time to go home not pay to stay.

They essentially feed the black market in terms of labour etc

The King of Moo

Uriel. wrote: »

So essentially pay for residency is what they want?

Sorry but I really just think If you have gained illegal access or the legal access you were granted has expired then it's time to go home not pay to stay.

They essentially feed the black market in terms of labour etc

No, not "pay." "EARN."

They're obliged to work (contribute to the economy and help others make money), pay taxes (contribute to public finances) and contribute to the community (develop a more ineffable sense of togetherness and goodwill).

Irish citizens are not faced with such obligations. Anyone availing of such a scheme would be seeking a way to gain employment and contribute to society in a variety of ways without contributing to the black market.

I personally don't really care so much how someone got here. What I think is more important is that people coming here want to work hard and contribute in other non-economic ways too.

The King of Moo

Morlar wrote: »

Source : http://www.independent.ie/national-news/migrant-workers-demand-new-residency-scheme-3173005.html

Do you really need to derail the thread with this nonsense ?

That's not the petition, it's the headline of an article about it. An Irish Independent article about it.

Do you really need to derail the thread with this nonsense?

Boombastic

The King of Moo wrote: »

No, not "pay." "EARN."

They're obliged to work (contribute to the economy and help others make money), pay taxes (contribute to public finances) and contribute to the community (develop a more ineffable sense of togetherness and goodwill).

Irish citizens are not faced with such obligations. Anyone availing of such a scheme would be seeking a way to gain employment and contribute to society in a variety of ways without contributing to the black market.

I personally don't really care so much how someone got here. What I think is more important is that people coming here want to work hard and contribute in other non-economic ways too.

Who would be doing these jobs instead of illegal migrants?:rolleyes:


People who have a legal right to work here

desertcircus

Do people seriously think this is a choice between having thirty thousand undocumented people become legal or sending them all home?

We will always have illegal immigration. This proposal allows people to start paying taxes and playing a fuller role in Irish life. How on earth is it preferable to have the same people paying no taxes and being used by dodgy employers to undercut the minimum wage?

Boombastic

desertcircus wrote: »

Do people seriously think this is a choice between having thirty thousand undocumented people become legal or sending them all home?

We will always have illegal immigration. This proposal allows people to start paying taxes and playing a fuller role in Irish life. How on earth is it preferable to have the same people paying no taxes and being used by dodgy employers to undercut the minimum wage?

We have a system that they could have legally applied through to gain legal status. The choose to ignore it. Deport them.

Morlar

desertcircus wrote: »

Do people seriously think this is a choice between having thirty thousand undocumented people become legal or sending them all home?

We will always have illegal immigration. This proposal allows people to start paying taxes and playing a fuller role in Irish life. How on earth is it preferable to have the same people paying no taxes and being used by dodgy employers to undercut the minimum wage?

To reward criminality is not a good precedent. It could very easily lead to all 30k of those illegals sending word home & then the underlying problem increasing. This is one way to address the problem, but it would not be fair on those who respected our laws and play by the rules to begin with.

I would back a proposal where these people were allowed to return to their country of origin and apply from there - their lack of IE criminal behaviour and lack of social welfare dependence here should then go in their favour and they would be given an opportunity to enter the process without being penalised for having ignored it in the first place. To me that seems the fairest option for all involved.

Dirk Gently

perhaps we should send them all home, and take back all the undocumented Irish living abroad. or maybe we should just STFU and realise we're a nation who migrates our young to other countries every generation.

The King of Moo

Boombastic wrote: »

Who would be doing these jobs instead of illegal migrants? rolleyes redacted


People who have a legal right to work here

And not all people who have a legal right to work here exercise that right. I personally don't really care where a person was born or whether the law dictates they can work here legally or not, as long as they contribute to Irish society in a number of ways.

alastair

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Michael-D-Higgins-calls-for-passage-of-E3-visa-bill-during-New-York-visit--150152105.html

desertcircus

And how exactly do we find them if our official policy is deportation?

Get serious. Deportation as a method of dealing with illegal immigration is an utter impossibility. Not to mention the disastrous economic effect of mass deportations.

VEN

The King of Moo wrote: »

No, not "pay." "EARN."

Earn a Fine, oh right

alastair

VEN wrote: »

Earn a Fine, oh right

Pay a fine
Earn the right to remain

Lot of sloppy comprehension running through this thread.

The King of Moo

VEN wrote: »

Earn a Fine, oh right

Engage with the other conditions which, to any adult, are clearly what the verb "to earn" applies to. If you fail to do so you're being very childish and not worth arguing with.

Uriel.

desertcircus wrote: »

Do people seriously think this is a choice between having thirty thousand undocumented people become legal or sending them all home?

We will always have illegal immigration. This proposal allows people to start paying taxes and playing a fuller role in Irish life. How on earth is it preferable to have the same people paying no taxes and being used by dodgy employers to undercut the minimum wage?

Alternatively we could just crack down on the illegals and ensure swift removal from Ireland

VEN

desertcircus wrote: »

Deportation as a method of dealing with illegal immigration is an utter impossibility. Not to mention the disastrous economic effect of mass deportations.

not at all, it just needs more man power.
the economic effect of mass immigration onto this small island is a disaster, though it keeps the employers happy, for now.

Uriel.

The King of Moo wrote: »

VEN wrote: »

Earn a Fine, oh right

Engage with the other conditions which, to any adult, are clearly what the verb "to earn" applies to. If you fail to do so you're being very childish and not worth arguing with.

It's essentially pay €x and you can get documentation to allow you to legally reside here and we'll overlook your illegal stay thus far.

Dangerous stuff. I wouldn't support it

blackdog2

Crack down on illegals, let them go home and apply with the embassy/consulate in their own country, just like everyone else has to. We cannot reward criminal behavior.

I say that having lived in 4 different countries.

alastair

VEN wrote: »

the economic effect of mass immigration onto this small island is a disaster, though it keeps the employers happy, for now.

Funny how the boom in the domestic economy ran parallel with the lowest unemployment figures and the largest immigration figures the state has known. Aside from that though - yeah - obvious cause and effect there. :rolleyes:

VEN

The King of Moo wrote: »

Engage with the other conditions which, to any adult, are clearly what the verb "to earn" applies to. If you fail to do so you're being very childish and not worth arguing with.

One of the conditions is to Pay a fine. The verb 'earn' does not apply here. Never heard of 'earning' a fine before.