Migrant workers demand new residency scheme

Br4tPr1nc3

thats funny...we presented over 70 thousand signatures to refuse acta,
and that was passes without hesitation.

they present 4 thousand, and its listened to straight away.

theg81der

This is a joke I`d bet there mostly people who came on students visas with fordged documents - which the department is well aware of, and now they want to reward them. We`ll just get more of them and more agents in there country teaching them how to do it.

bodice ripper

what are people complaining about here?

When these people take our jobs and our women, there will be more mixed race irish people about. who doesn't want that? your sons and daughters will thank you for letting the pretty genetics in...

paddydu

round em up and send um black em i mean back

alastair

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

There are approximately nine million illegals in the States, do you honestly think the US Government will change their laws just for maybe 100,000 Irish illegals?
And why should they, any illegal Irish should be deported and our Government should stop trying to get them a special deal and concentrate on what's going on here.
If the Government give in to this petition it just gives the impression of "ah sure you stayed on after your visa ran out but what harm we will fix it for you now and sure no harm done" and will give the impression that Irelands immigration laws are easy to get around (which IMO they are anyway).

The US changed their laws for fewer Australian illegals. The point is the Irish government believe that it's something the US government should do - which logically implys that they might well give consideration to this proposal. What's to stop the government restricting the arrangement to only those who sign up to the process within a short window - say two months? Limiting the deal to only the nine thousand odd who petitioned - of which some presumably wouldn't pass all criteria for acceptance, isn't going to make any difference to ongoing illegal immigration - which will continue one way or another.

alastair

theg81der wrote: »

This is a joke I`d bet there mostly people who came on students visas with fordged documents - which the department is well aware of, and now they want to reward them. We`ll just get more of them and more agents in there country teaching them how to do it.

It's illegal/undocumented immigrants - therefore not people on student visas.

cournioni

Not sure if this has been posted already, and don't particularly care if it has of not...

They took our jewbs!

alastair

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The country is a laughing stock as it is without them wanting to make anyone that entered illegally, Legal just because they didnt catch them in time or because there are Irish Illegals in other countries.

We're a laughing stock? You believe so? I don't think so.

Italy, Spain, Poland, Belgium, and Portugal have all run through amnesties and retrospective visa arrangements for illegal immigrants. Are they laughing stocks too?

Marcusm

mikemac1 wrote: »

I've didn't quote all of your points, just getting the part of the Irish in the USA

What has the USA got to do with us?

How about the USA worry over their own policies and we will do the same here.

If Shatter or Gilmore or some other minister wants to change policies or do something about deportations the decision can be made

What the USA decide to do is their own concern

It might indeed be the US's concern but as you'll see from the official Department of Foreign Affairs press release copied below, the Irish government has engaged in lobbying!!!! And has financially supported the campaign. (Can't imagine it's altered withthe change of government.). At least these people are petitioning for them selves!

Dermot Ahern Continues Push To Legalise US Irish

22/11/2006
The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Dermot Ahern TD, said today that the months ahead will prove vital in securing comprehensive reform for the undocumented Irish in the United States.

The Minister said since the mid term elections he had renewed contact with a number of key US Congressional figures and raised with them the issue of the undocumented Irish. 

The Minister said: “I will continue my active contacts with other key Members of the incoming Congress in the period ahead. Embassy and Consular staff in the United States will continue to lobby hard for an acceptable solution to the difficulties faced by the undocumented Irish.”

Minister Ahern said the Government has the welfare of the undocumented Irish as a priority. He said he had travelled to the US over 16 times, raising the issue on each occasion with key contacts, including Senators Kennedy and McCain who have been responsible for a reforming Bill in the US Senate. Minister Ahern has just returned from New York where he met Irish lobby groups, including the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform.

The Government has provided $85,000 to assist the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform (ILIR). “This has enabled them to become an effective voice for the Irish undocumented throughout the United States. ILIR have ensured that the Irish dimension to this issue is understood in the US and I have been happy to support them in this.” 

ENDS +++
22 November 2006
Press Office

Top

alastair

blackdog2 wrote: »

Yes, I am aware of that. However, I don't support them in either country, and your repeated bleatings don't make me feel any kind of guilt about the situation.

Bully for you.

mikemac1

cournioni wrote: »

They took our jewbs!

And our wimmins :mad:

alastair

mikemac1 wrote: »

And our wimmins :mad:

I want to know if any of those illegal Brazilian ladies are looking to take our men?

IrishAm

alastair wrote: »

It has a bearing because (Irish) government policy in relation to illegal immigrants is clear enough regarding the Irish in the US, and therefore should have some impact on their attitude to this petition for illegals here.

A government putting its own citizens interests above others and being hypocritical in the process. Big swinging mickey, it happens the world over.

Anyway, the 50,000 Irish illegals in America won't be getting an amnesty anytime soon and the Irish government are well aware of this. They are posturing, no more no less. In the meantime, if an Irish illegal immigrant run into an ICE agent they will be locked up in a county jail for a weeks, in shackles and then sent home without an opportunity to even pack up their belongings. Proper order, too.

theg81der

alastair wrote: »

It's illegal/undocumented immigrants - therefore not people on student visas.

They are counting these people, I know that for a fact and there are thosands of them.

alastair

theg81der wrote: »

They are counting these people, I know that for a fact and there are thosands of them.

No they are not - it's specifically undocumented immigrants.

hawkelady

I'm beginning to think that auld Alastair is an illegal immigrant !!
Why can I ask are you really pushing for this? And please dont reply with "sure aren't we fighting for the Irish iillegally in the states" crap.
I'm genuinely interest in why you have an agenda with this.

Forest Demon

Lets not forget that in the states if you don't work you don't get paid. This is the case for employed and unemployed alike.

Not the same as Ireland and other European countries where becoming a citizen comes with a raft of entitlements that can put a drain on tax payers to pay for housing and social welfare. People will say that these immigrants want to work. Well so do most of the 450,000 other people looking for work. There are not enough jobs for the Irish, EU and other legal immigrants currently.

Anyone who came here illegally and are not genuine asylum seekers (very few) should be deported straight away. To make the argument that Irish people still living in Ireland cannot have the opinion that illegal immigrants should be deported because other Irish people are illegal in the US is stupid.

We are not responsible for the people who have left our shores illegally. We are also not responsible for people who find themselves in Ireland illegally. Simple as that.

There is no vetting of illegal immigrants. They could be rapists, child molesters, war criminals, drug dealers, murderers. They could also be hard working decent people who are just tying to do the their best and contribute. It does not matter as we already have plenty of the above (good and bad) that the state is responsible for. There is only so much capacity in an small country like Ireland and the open border EU policy is putting enough strain on the state without allowing illegal immigrants to be become citizens. I accept the EU open border policy as that is what the people of Ireland voted for (right or wrongly). A lot of the bigger countries are now looking to review this policy and they have not had the record breaking immigration that Ireland has seen over the past 10 years.

So because some people managed to get through our lax borders we should let them stay? Its not fair on legal immigrants or Irish citizens. Our incompetent government and state institution's cannot look after our own people and legal immigrants never mind illegal immigrants.

Deport as soon as possible.

The King of Moo

The King of Moo wrote: »

No, not "pay." "EARN."

They're obliged to work (contribute to the economy and help others make money), pay taxes (contribute to public finances) and contribute to the community (develop a more ineffable sense of togetherness and goodwill).

Irish citizens are not faced with such obligations. Anyone availing of such a scheme would be seeking a way to gain employment and contribute to society in a variety of ways without contributing to the black market.

I personally don't really care so much how someone got here. What I think is more important is that people coming here want to work hard and contribute in other non-economic ways too.

Too little, too late, IMO. They should have been doing all that from the beginning, legally. It doesn't matter what Irish citizens have to do. They have the right to reside in their own country, like it or not. Foreigners are guests and they should abide by the rules or go home. I don't see why anyone who hasn't bothered to follow the rules should be rewarded with residency.

Illegal immigrants, by and large, are a pox on the country. They use public services while paying no tax, work in jobs they could be taken by legal residents, make wages in such jobs lower for everyone, send almost all their money home. I knew a few when I lived in Ireland and they were nothing except leeches. Taking everything they could and not giving a thing back.

It makes me especially angry because I've spent a lot of time and money obtaining the correct visas etc to work abroad. It makes me angry that some people have such a sense of entitlement that they think they can just ignore the rules, do as they please and then come begging to be given residency. And yes, that applies to the illegal Irish in America as well. Living in another country is a privilege, not a right.

bodice ripper

I've been sent to Garda Immigration before (despite living in ireland for 20 years...) and I tell you what, the way the immigrants are treated is disgusting.

hawkelady

bodice ripper wrote: »

I've been sent to Garda Immigration before (despite living in ireland for 20 years...) and I tell you what, the way the immigrants are treated is disgusting.

What way are they treated ? Expand please

mikemac1

The odd time the GNIB stop buses a few km south of the border, not far from Newry

Just checking ID's realy

I had no ID but I just said where I coming from and going to in my bogger accent :pac:
That was fine

A Filipino couple were getting a flight out of Dublin. A work permit for the UK doesn't mean anything in Ireland
So even though they were just getting the bus to Dublin airport and would not even come into Dublin city they got taken off the bus, I presume to Dundalk garda station

Bit harsh
Flying from Dublin as there are far more options then Belfast International

Not the gardas fault I suppose, orders are orders

The bus checks are very random, might get stopped a few times in a week and you might go for months without seeing them

bodice ripper

far too small a room for that many people, ridiculous queue and waiting in a tiny room with young kids, so over-subscribed OR under resourced that you have to queue in the wee hours before it opens.

I kept getting asked questions the whole time I was there because I was the ONLY white person there and so it was assume I must work there.

When I got to the damn window the condescending weapon behind the counter spoke very slowly and deliberately (without even checking if I spoke english) in the most patronising manner. I let her run with it for ages before telling her "hey, speak at a normal rate and it'll be over quicker"

She got thick with me but then told me "you don't need to be here. if you are from the us, australia, canada, new zealand you can do all this by post"

So, white and english speaking. gotcha

Forest Demon

bodice ripper wrote: »

I've been sent to Garda Immigration before (despite living in ireland for 20 years...) and I tell you what, the way the immigrants are treated is disgusting.

I don't know what happened to you but the Garda treat most people equally bad regardless of race and immigration status.

It is one of the very examples of consistency in the force.

bodice ripper

Forest Demon wrote: »

I don't know what happened to you but the Garda treat most people equally bad regardless of race and immigration status.

It is one of the very examples of consistency in the force.

oh, i know. not terribly fond of that shower, to be honest

Sappa

I know a philippino brother and sister who are in Ireland,she legally but he is here illegally.
He came here with her cooperation under the understanding that he would remain illegally.
He works as a carer advertising his services weekly and gets paid cash in hand.
Very nice fellow but he came here with the intention of breaking our immigration laws and to earn a few bob before heading home to the philippinnes.
If we made them legit we are opening up the floodgates to massive immigration abuse and anyone who disputes this hasn't a clue or has their own agenda.

VEN

alastair wrote: »

It's illegal/undocumented immigrants - therefore not people on student visas.

you don't understand do you? the poster is saying, they come here as students first then decide to stay after their visas expire. i also know this for a fact, particularly the countries of Venezuela, Brazil and Pakistan.

VEN

VEN wrote: »

you don't understand do you? the poster is saying, they come here as students first then decide to stay after their visas expire. i also know this for a fact, particularly the countries of Venezuela, Brazil and Pakistan.

Yep. It's the easiest way in. A lot of them aren't even genuine students in the first place. You obviously can't just enter the country without any documents, so they come as 'English students', don't go to classes and then disappear. I used to work at a language school where at least 50% of the students were working illegally. It's a massive problem in the UK as well. Our school sometimes gets visited by the Border Agency to make sure all our students are in class when they're supposed to be.

Nodin

hawkelady wrote: »

I'm beginning to think that auld Alastair is an illegal immigrant !!
Why can I ask are you really pushing for this? And please dont reply with "sure aren't we fighting for the Irish iillegally in the states" crap.
I'm genuinely interest in why you have an agenda with this.

Empathy with fellow humans, I'd imagine.

Whats motivating your agenda?

Galwayguy35

Nodin wrote: »

Empathy with fellow humans, I'd imagine.

Whats motivating your agenda?

Why would you have empathy for people who break our countries laws?

Nodin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why would you have empathy for people who break our countries laws?

.....because they might deserve it.

Hilly Bill

alastair wrote: »

We're a laughing stock? You believe so? I don't think so.

Italy, Spain, Poland, Belgium, and Portugal have all run through amnesties and retrospective visa arrangements for illegal immigrants. Are they laughing stocks too?

Just because other countries have done it doesnt mean Ireland has too.

Galwayguy35

Nodin wrote: »

.....because they might deserve it.

Well I think differently, people who come over here and follow correct procedure and gain their citizenship in the correct manner are the people who should be welcomed here and it would be very unfair to these people if they see others who have total disregard for the law being rewarded for it.

PucaMama

Nodin wrote: »

.....because they might deserve it.

no, they dont. they broke the law. if they want to live here go by the rules. if they dont meet the criteria then there must be a reason.

Sappa

Nodin wrote: »

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why would you have empathy for people who break our countries laws?

.....because they might deserve it.

One of the stupidest posts I have seen.

Hilly Bill

Nodin wrote: »

Empathy with fellow humans, I'd imagine.

Whats motivating your agenda?

Whats next from the looneys "Hug an illegal immigrant day " ?

hooradiation

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Whats next from the looneys "Hug an illegal immigrant day " ?

That'll happen around the same time you organise and run a "use something other than trite soundbites" day.

So.... I expect we'll be kept waiting for quite a while.

Galwayguy35

alastair wrote: »

The US changed their laws for fewer Australian illegals. The point is the Irish government believe that it's something the US government should do - which logically implys that they might well give consideration to this proposal. What's to stop the government restricting the arrangement to only those who sign up to the process within a short window - say two months? Limiting the deal to only the nine thousand odd who petitioned - of which some presumably wouldn't pass all criteria for acceptance, isn't going to make any difference to ongoing illegal immigration - which will continue one way or another.

Can you not get it into your head that it would be seen as rewarding people who broke the law.

You seem to be mentioning the US a lot so then I would assume you are aware that any illegal in the same situation as those over here would find themselves deported pronto if discovered.

Nodin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well I think differently, people who come over here and follow correct procedure and gain their citizenship in the correct manner are the people who should be welcomed here and it would be very unfair to these people if they see others who have total disregard for the law being rewarded for it.

Mqaybe, maybe not. However I see no reason to demonise them, or people who speak up for them.

Hilly Bill

hooradiation wrote: »

That'll happen around the same time you organise and run a "use something other than trite soundbites" day.

So.... I expect we'll be kept waiting for quite a while.

Thanks it will never happen then

Hilly Bill

Nodin wrote: »

Mqaybe, maybe not. However I see no reason to demonise them, or people who speak up for them.

Why not?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

IrishAm

Aquila wrote: »

They are human just like you and I.

Do you, or indeed Nodin, believe in immigration controls or would you prefer if Ireland dropped all immigration controls and procedures?

Sappa

Aquila wrote: »

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Why not?

They are human just like you and I.

They are breaking our immigration laws and they want to be rewarded while giving the two fingers to every legal immigrant who payed huge amounts to come here,abided by every rule of their visa conditions and sat outside immigration offices in the early hours of the morning to make sure there visa was up to date.
There is no argument you can come up with to counters this.
Rules are there for a reason,I happily welcome immigrants once they do it legally.

old_aussie

Ireland should do the same as the greeks

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/greek-police-detain-1130-immigrants/story-e6frf7k6-1226443469674

El Tarangu

There's one point that I don't believe has been raised yet:

If such an amnesty was brought in, and an undocumented migrant applied for status but was refused, on whatever grounds, they would be unlikely to say "Fair cop, guv", and leave as required. Given the fact that they have already shown themselves willing to disobey the laws of the land, they would likely remain here illegally.

Every undocumented migrant in Ireland made the conscientious decision to break the law, by entering the country illegally, or overstaying a student visa, or whatever. Such behaviour should not be endorsed by the authorities.

hooradiation

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thanks it will never happen then

Yes, you will never say anything of substance.
That appears to be true.

average hero

They don't deserve to stay. They are here illegally, already breaking the law. The consequences for that are not suddenly being allowed to stay here.

Idiotic

Nodin

IrishAm wrote: »

Do you, or indeed Nodin, believe in immigration controls or would you prefer if Ireland dropped all immigration controls and procedures?

There has to be immigration controls, logically.

Sappa

Nodin wrote: »

IrishAm wrote: »

Do you, or indeed Nodin, believe in immigration controls or would you prefer if Ireland dropped all immigration controls and procedures?

There has to be immigration controls, logically.

Then can you give me a compelling point that these illegal immigrants should be allowed flaunt the immigration controls.

fasttalkerchat

Nodin wrote: »

There has to be immigration controls, logically.

Immigration controls enforce immigration restrictions. Immigration restrictions are there to treat the symptoms of regional poverty and the imbalance of wealth distribution world-wide.
No one would accept being turned down for a visa application to work in Dublin 4 because they come from Dublin 11. When you accept immigration controls as logical, you ignore the real issue.