Unfair dismissal? Do I have a claim?

Kai123

Skip to the bullet points for the gritty part, the rest is just a bit of back-story.

I will try and keep this short. I just want to know if I have a claim or not, and can fill in the gaps if anyone asks a question.

I am getting married very soon. I told my manager around January and she made the mental note of 2 weeks at the end of August/beginning of September. A week before I put my holiday request form in, someone booked the first week of September and I was told id probably not get it. I made a fuss and the manager said someone would be done.

About 3 weeks ago, the issue came up again and it was agreed I could most likely have it off, but a week ago she met with the head manager who said no, because its the first week of school and we are short staffed already (Deli work).

Officially I am in the wrong. Unofficially I am completely in the right. They knew for a very long time about the holiday week, and its my honeymoon. I have never given any grief before, and other staff members have/are getting away with murder (one girl not turning up at all for a week, then not coming in at least twice a week. She got an official warning after about 6 months of this).

I spoke to the main manager today and he said its totally out of the question. I asked him what the penalty if I simply don't come in the second week and he, in a roundabout way said i would be sacked.

Why I think I might have a claim;

• I have worked there for 5 years, no official warnings. I am also the most productive member.
• They can work around it. Its happened before and wont be the last time we have been short-staffed. Except instead of people simply now showing up, I would be having my honeymoon.
• Is it gross misconduct? Should the girl not turning up be fired on the spot? Many, many things have happened that you would think warnings would be given but have not. I would be the second person in 5 years to be fired on the spot.
• The weeks were unofficially booked, and I only find out 2 weeks before I go that I cant have it.
• It is making me very depressed. I know everything is happening so soon, but the last week have been awful. I cant enjoy anything, its just this nasty hazy feeling in the back of my head.
• Realistically, they cant fire me. To do so would be giving them 3 months of hell to train someone new at a time no-one can give the training, for the sake of firing me because I am having my honeymoon.

This was suppose to be a much smaller thread, but there it is. Boards.ie have never let me down so hopefully this will help give me some direction in all of this.



If anyone can give me any advice or shed some light on this, I would be utterly, truly grateful!


Kai.

Nody

First of all you don't have the right to pick your holidays in the first place and you should have dropped in your vacation earlier if you knew you "had" to get those dates as you were at least a week late as noted by yourself as important. Secondly you're utterly wrong to think you're irreplaceable; the people who think they are tend to find out sooner or later that they very much are not esp. if the only thing is a short training period (and yes 3 months is short). Third and finally no one can tell you if it is unfair dismissal or not because that would be giving you legal advice as none of us can claim to know your company's policies and you'd need to speak to a solicitor to get a correct answer on that question. The simple fact is you've screwed up by throwing a hissy over it already and flagged that you're going to be away which don't put things in a good light for "suddenly" not showing up and it is likely to be held against you in any disciplinary hearing. Will they fire you over it? No one cay say.

Kai123

What about being told I'd probably have it till only a week and a bit ago?

It probably looks looks like a hissyfit, but the stress and tension its caused between me and my partner is unreal. I have never been this depressed, and even going with the uncertainty, this wedding is ruined.

I bought up the long years and experience because it came under a title of "capacity" regarding unfair dismissal for my employers reasoning for firing me, considering what else goes on in work and how im being treated very differently.

3DataModem

Kai123 wrote: »

What about being told I'd probably have it till only a week and a bit ago?

What do you think they meant by "probably"?

Kai123

My manager was saying I had the second week but she had to check with the head manager, who said no.

3DataModem

So you understood it could be "yes" or "no".

Now it's no, you've signalled your possible intention to deliberately skip work for a week.

They've told you that wilful absence and insubordination is gross misconduct, and hence subject to summary dismissal without warning.

So to answer your question - no this is almost certainly not unfair dismissal. Previous service or conduct are irrelevant.

And just as a footnote - I would fire the hell out of you too.

Kai123

Regardless of the conduct of everyone else who by your account would of been fired 10 times over, my case stands alone?

3DataModem

Kai123 wrote: »

Regardless of the conduct of everyone else who by your account would of been fired 10 times over, my case stands alone?

The BIG difference in your case is that you have already advised them of your desire to take that week off.

If you vanished with no notice for a week you could claim illness, stress, medication, alcohol, domestic problems, you "dreamt you called in sick", anything. In that circumstance - for a good worker - I'd have an investigation and final warning.

But in your case you've asked, been told no, and signalled your displeasure. So it's absenteeism AND gross insubordination.

So yes, your case is different.

Eoin

This is not the place to ask if you should take legal action, please consult a solicitor

Kai123

I'm going to the doctor next week for depression. Regardless if it helps or not but my god I have never felt like this. This feeling is literally unbearable.

Thanks for the advice. I probably messed it up by telling him about not going in, everyone else told me it was a good idea and I thought it would make me feel better putting it all out on the table.

Mrs OBumble

This is gonna sound harsh, but you asked:

You screwed up by not putting in the leave form months ago. There's no such thing as "unofficially booked" - among other things, that would be unfair to the people who followed the procedures and put the forms in.

You know you screwed up, and what you're really mad, depressed, whatever about is your own failure.

Get over thinking you can't be replaced, it's deli-work not rocket science.

No one here knows if you have a case and even if we did this isn't the place for that sort of advice.

If you get fired, it could impact on you for a long time. IMHO, your best option is to offer to resign (since you'll be able to give appropriate notice), and then see if they'll negotiate.

LegacyUser

You knew your were getting married months ago. Once you had a date you should have filled out the correct holiday forms and gone to you boss with them. You could have told your boss I am getting married on such a day & your co workers would have known the dates were gone.

You made a mistake and your employer has told you we are short staffed and you can't have the 2nd week off. You then told your employer I will go missing if I don't get this week off - a really bad move as they know if you go missing the following week you are still on honeymoon. I can't tell you that you will be fired but I would not do this.
You may not get a lump sum for unfair dismissal if you take a 2nd week off for your honeymoon. Your employer could manage without you and if they let you go they will have no shortage of people applying for your job.

It is time to grow up and accept that you made several mistakes here. You have time off for your honeymoon and a job to come back to but if you take the 2nd week off this may not be the case.

Kai123

I was told it would be ok up to a week ago, and during the week it was very distressing and why I made this thread. I understand how clear cut it is, but you dont know my employer and how lax everything is. Changed have been made before to cater for holidays, but they wont do the same for the honeymoon.

I made the mistake of trying to be an advantage to my employer instead of being a nightmare when I started working. I will have to work that week and cover for people simply not showing up down the road. Thats what was really upsetting me.

Depression and hopelessness or anger and motivation. I think I will try and start my own business and using my current job as a anchor and safety net.

Thanks for the straight comments and advice. I see we don't do sugar-coatin around here

Kai.

3DataModem

Kai123 wrote: »

I was told it would be ok up to a week ago, and during the week it was very distressing and why I made this thread. I understand how clear cut it is, but you dont know my employer and how lax everything is. Changed have been made before to cater for holidays, but they wont do the same for the honeymoon.

I made the mistake of trying to be an advantage to my employer instead of being a nightmare when I started working. I will have to work that week and cover for people simply not showing up down the road. Thats what was really upsetting me.

Depression and hopelessness or anger and motivation. I think I will try and start my own business and using my current job as a anchor and safety net.

Thanks for the straight comments and advice. I see we don't do sugar-coatin around here

Kai.

Best of luck in the job and other business... didn't mean to be harsh, and certainly not blaming you. You assumed it would be cool based on previous experience, and got burned. It happens. It's crap that they wouldn't give you a straight answer earlier, but holidays are at employer's discretion.

Mrs OBumble

3DataModem wrote: »

Best of luck in the job and other business... didn't mean to be harsh, and certainly not blaming you. You assumed it would be cool based on previous experience, and got burned. It happens. It's crap that they wouldn't give you a straight answer earlier, but holidays are at employer's discretion.

+1

Yeah, IMHO the aim here is honesty. Not rudeness, but not telling you polite make-you-feel-better-but-don't-really-help lies either.

Hope you can work out a solution.

Recessionbust

As it stands you have no case, as stated its at employers discretion in saying that if they let you go due to you failing to turn into work they would need to follow guidelines, this involves writing (not calling) to you to request you provide details of your reason for not been in work and you need to answer this within 3 working days, in addition to this they need to investigate and submit there findings in writing to you, an employer can not simply dismiss you for not turning in to work they have guidelines to follow , I have seen this happen before with managers letting staff go and it didn't end well that said I would appeal and failing that do what you wish but no point contacting a solicitor until something has happened.

magicbastarder

all the above to one side, it takes a special kind of manager who knew you were going on holidays in january, not to allow some flexibility and let you take it. time to find a new job, methinks.

pm1977x

magicbastarder wrote: »

all the above to one side, it takes a special kind of manager who knew you were going on holidays in january, not to allow some flexibility and let you take it. time to find a new job, methinks.

think it's complicated by there being the manager, who he mentioned it to and then the main manager who eventually vetoed it, probably having only heard about it at the last minute?

agree though, the lack of flexibility seems harsh.

OP, have you tried asking the other employee who has booked time off if he/she could possibly move it, ie have they something booked or could they postpone?

Kai123

I am going to ask the other employee on Wednesday about changing the holiday week, but I don't think she will budge. Im hoping they would give me the Monday to Wednesday, which would really help with the roster for that week and we could have some decent time together.

The last two weeks have been very tough. I hate the thought that my Wife (:D) will be sitting at home while im working instead of being around the west of Ireland (she wanted us to drive up from Mayo to Galway staying in hotels along the way). Although I feel absolutely defeated mentally, the intense stress is gone which was getting unbearable.

I only just remembered today, but I think I might have the two weeks officially, since I was told to write in a new one for just the single week. Its either officially down or not down at all. Even if its a grey area, im mentally done for now and want to focus on the wedding.

Thanks again everyone for their thoughts.

Kai.