Annoyed to see my niece/nephews being brainwashed in Catholic education

Bannasidhe

newmug wrote: »

God bless both of you.

May the Flying Spaghetti monster protect you and yours from overcooked pasta.

May Thor never singe your nostrils with lightening.

May Kali never order the severing of your head.

May the Buddha guide you to tranquillity.

newmug

God bless you all, especially the nasty ones.

Bannasidhe

Freiheit wrote: »

Which Jesus is that Newmug? the Jesus of 'Matthew' Mark' Luke' or John or of the nearly 100 Gospels excluded from the offical bibles?

Guide to which can be found here http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=1116&C=1232

Bannasidhe

newmug wrote: »

God bless you all, especially the nasty ones.

I feel your Christian Love brother. :rolleyes:

the culture of deference

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

if your child went to an atheist school where he/she was taught that there is no such thing as god, your christian brother/sister might feel that the school is brainwashing your child.

School should teach and prepare you for the world.
religion and it's study should be totally separate.

newmug wrote: »

You are annoyed at kids getting a Catholic education. Ok, let me see. You are annoyed that they are taught:

1. that its wrong to kill
2. that its wrong to steal
3. that its wrong to lie
4. They are taught... around the model of the family unit
5. They are taught... sexual morals in secondary school
6. They are taught.... that there are more important things in life than instant gratification and self-fulfilling persuits
7. to have an open mind about what exists in the natural universe, and what may exist super-naturally
8. They are taught... all this on the understanding that a God exists, and his name is Jesus Christ - they are not forced to believe this.

Secular or Catholic, thats a pretty good foundation for anybody inlife if you ask me.

Must resist urge to reply......



No. 1,2 and 3.

Hasn't the catholic church broken everyone of these millions of times.

No. 4
god says a family is a man and woman and loads of kids, contraception and gays are evil. women are breeding machines. women are of no value to the church except to clean. they do not have an opinion.

No. 5
don't have sex, sex is evil, if you think about sex you are going to hell, especially if you're a man thinking about another man. Don't worry if you're a girl, we don't recognise womens rights enough to believe in lesbians.

No. 6
Yes, you should pray, and pray some more, then use your vastly superior knowledge about godly things to spread your influence of ignorance

No. 7
have an open mind, thats hilarious

No. 8
What happens when you lie to children. you make them stupid


This is the worst foundation for a child. You must be trolling

newmug wrote: »

Ignorance, ignorance ignorance. Why dont you people actually try real Christianity before you knock it? Because none of you are describing it accuratley.

And @ Dades, why shouldn't the 3 billion of us who try to be sexually moralistic teach that to others? Is it because of the 10 or so paedophiles who pretended to be Catholic, entering our ranks? How non-judgemental of you:rolleyes: Those peado's had more in common with you athiests than us Christians.

Where are you getting 3 billion figure from.
and
10 paedo priests from.

Another lunatic. Really hope you haven't got kids. I look forward to the day when social services can save kids from loons with these beliefs.

There are 1-2 billions christians in 35,000 different cults

newmug wrote: »

God bless you.

lunatic

tricky D

newmug wrote: »

God bless yiz all. You have it completely the wrong way around. I'll pray for you's.

Please don't waste your time and do try to do something actually useful for society instead, like picking up some litter.

war_child

I find all this deeply disturbing , i went to a catholic school , wasnt brainwashed in anyway, didnt really bother me to much either way when i was a child.

It wasnt until i got older and started seeing friends and relatives passing away, trouble in either life love or work that i started thinking to myself the relevance of having a God.

Some evenings as i lay in my bed in a different country on my own i would just start to pray , now before u start it wasnt prayers i was saying it was talking (To whom you ask)? ....Something bigger than myself ......

Only we as human beings would be arrogant enough to consider ourselves the centre of the universe with nothing coming before or after us, and with all honesty it offers me alevel of comfort to know my Grandparents are above me watching over me having a whiskey with their friends and my grandad eating his sponecake sandwiches that made me yack as a kid.

Leave your children be children and when the time is right they will decide for themselves if they want to believe in God or Marvin the Martian. Until that time comes to pass allow them THEIR childhoods and dont impose YOUR ideas of life on them.

doctoremma

war_child wrote: »

Leave your children be children and when the time is right they will decide for themselves if they want to believe in God or Marvin the Martian. Until that time comes to pass allow them THEIR childhoods and dont impose YOUR ideas of life on them.

All well and good, I'm with you completely.

But I find it difficult to reconcile this philosophy with teaching your child to follow your religion. Or sending your child to a faith school. Or getting them baptised/communed (or whatever the verb form is).

tricky D

war_child wrote: »

I find all this deeply disturbing , i went to a catholic school , wasnt brainwashed in anyway, didnt really bother me to much either way when i was a child.

If you did catechism you were brainwashed.

war_child wrote: »

Leave your children be children and when the time is right they will decide for themselves if they want to believe in God or Marvin the Martian. Until that time comes to pass allow them THEIR childhoods and dont impose YOUR ideas of life on them.

Not quite how parenting works.

ShooterSF

What exactly does making a deity bless someone do? Can anyone make god bless anyone. How long does it take him to bless you? Has he to keep records? Is god sitting up in heaven looking down thinking "Me dammit, newmug's gone on a blessing spree I'm gonna have a late night tonight. Aww no not all the atheists?! This is gotta be a months paperwork here. Uck I wish the days when I gave the orders never ended. Sigh."

war_child

tricky D wrote: »

If you did catechism you were brainwashed.


Not quite how parenting works.

its exactly how parenting works , do you wake your kids up in the morning by screamingin their ears THE ALIENS ARE COMING , no u dont you leave them happy in their ignorance , and tricky anybody can plainly see by my comment i was talking in regards to religion and not life in general. But then again by some of your previous comments you like to nit pick , so ill forgive you your random scrawlings...

doctoremma

war_child wrote: »

its exactly how parenting works , do you wake your kids up in the morning by screamingin their ears THE ALIENS ARE COMING , no u dont you leave them happy in their ignorance

So, by your argument, you shouldn't be sending them to a school where they are forced to recite prayers and learn bible stuff by rote. Nor should you even imbue them with your religious beliefs at home.

tricky D

war_child wrote: »

no u dont you leave them happy in their ignorance

This is where you do impose your own ideas on them. Parenting is about making mature decisions for children who are immature by definition.

oldrnwisr

newmug wrote: »

You are annoyed at kids getting a Catholic education. Ok, let me see. You are annoyed that they are taught:

1. that its wrong to kill
2. that its wrong to steal
3. that its wrong to lie

You're right, these are important things for children to learn. I'm just confused as to how you think that Catholicism or Christianity for that matter is responsible for this. After all, these moral values were borrowed by Christianity from Judaism who in turn borrowed them from existing moral codes of the time and region like the Code of Hammurabi. These are moral values which rest on principles which are not dependent on religion. The fact that you think we need religion to tell us that killing is wrong speaks volumes.

newmug wrote: »

They are taught... around the model of the family unit

You mean they are taught as fact things which are demonstrably untrue, such as the "traditional" nuclear family is the ideal family form which results in the best outcomes for children. You I see I would like my kids (if and when) to be taught things that are actually true.

newmug wrote: »

They are taught... sexual morals in secondary school

You mean they are taught arbitrary moral guidelines lifted from your mythology as if they were true without any explanation as to why certain acts are immoral, just a "God wanted it that way" argument.
Oh, and let's face it, teaching teenagers about sex in an abstinence only way is like bringing a knife to a gunfight. You're pitting your 2000 year old moral framework against 200,000 years of human evolution. It's dangerous and irresponsible and has been shown to be utterly useless.

Teen Pregnancies Highest in States with Abstinence-Only policies

newmug wrote: »

They are taught.... that there are more important things in life than instant gratification and self-fulfilling persuits

Such as?

newmug wrote: »

to have an open mind about what exists in the natural universe, and what may exist super-naturally

Open mind? Seriously?

From the get-go these children are taught as fact things which are either unsupported by any evidence or demonstrably false and you think that this is somehow going to make them open-minded. Evolution, just to take one example has had the fiercest resistance from Christianity because it wanted to maintain the argument that humans were in some way special.

newmug wrote: »

They are taught... all this on the understanding that a God exists, and his name is Jesus Christ - they are not forced to believe this.

So you're saying that all of this wonderful education is underpinned by assertions not grounded in any kind of fact, which they are taught as fact and yet somehow they are not forced to believe it. Did you read back over your own post before submitting it?

Oh, and one more thing, if the only thing you're going to respond with is some stock platitude or offer of prayer, save your energy. Not interested.

war_child wrote: »

Leave your children be children and when the time is right they will decide for themselves if they want to believe in God or Marvin the Martian. Until that time comes to pass allow them THEIR childhoods and dont impose YOUR ideas of life on them.

So you think that teaching children as fact things which have either not been supported by evidence or things which have been shown to be wrong is somehow worse than not teaching them these things? Really? Isn't teaching your child that a particular religion is true imposing your ideas on them in the first place?

uberalles

pwurple wrote: »

Excellent comment, couldn't have put it better. It is one of the best ways to become a critical thinker, which applies to everything we encounter. Whether it be accepted current science, religion, homeopathy, politics, etc. And if they do accept it, they instead get the comfort of faith which helps with bereavment. Win win.

People vastly underestimate children's understanding. They are young, not stupid.

They are impressionable though. Religion is a load of BS. I remember as a kid bring told Jesus is everywhere watching you. I mean I had an invisible stalker at the age of 5. Fcuk that. I object to this hocus pocus BS being delivered to kids. It's not harmless.

iguana

How newmug seems to be reading these latest few posts;

bluewolf wrote: »

ACHOO!!!!!

newmug wrote: »

God bless you.

Corkfeen wrote: »

ACHOO!!!!!

newmug wrote: »

God bless you.

Sarky wrote: »

ACHOO!!!!!

Bannasidhe wrote: »

ACHOO!!!!!

newmug wrote: »

God bless both of you.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!

Freiheit wrote: »

ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!

doctoremma wrote: »

ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!

Bannasidhe wrote: »

ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!ACHOO!!!!!

newmug wrote: »

God bless you all, especially the nasty ones.

Corkfeen

war_child wrote: »

Only we as human beings would be arrogant enough to consider ourselves the centre of the universe with nothing coming before or after us, and with all honesty it offers me alevel of comfort to know my Grandparents are above me watching over me having a whiskey with their friends and my grandad eating his sponecake sandwiches that made me yack as a kid.

I'm surely not the only person seeing the irony in this sentence. I don't view humans to be in any way special (we are just extremely advanced animals) and I'd say the odds are in favour of there being intelligent life outside of earth. But Christianity, followers believe they are made in the image of their god and that we are far more special than any other life plus you get an afterlife. That strikes me as extremely arrogant(plus the religion is supposedly the one true faith and all the other religions are wrong).

equivariant

war_child wrote: »

I find all this deeply disturbing , i went to a catholic school , wasnt brainwashed in anyway,

good for you. but.....

It wasnt until i got older and started seeing friends and relatives passing away, trouble in either life love or work that i started thinking to myself the relevance of having a God.

Some evenings as i lay in my bed in a different country on my own i would just start to pray , now before u start it wasnt prayers i was saying it was talking (To whom you ask)? ....Something bigger than myself ......

Only we as human beings would be arrogant enough to consider ourselves the centre of the universe with nothing coming before or after us, and with all honesty it offers me alevel of comfort to know my Grandparents are above me watching over me having a whiskey with their friends and my grandad eating his sponecake sandwiches that made me yack as a kid.

Leave your children be children and when the time is right they will decide for themselves if they want to believe in God or Marvin the Martian. Until that time comes to pass allow them THEIR childhoods and dont impose YOUR ideas of life on them.

sounds like you were a bit more brainwashed than you care to admit

paddyandy

The Popular Religions of the World are for Ordinary People but that does not make Religion a "Fairy Story" .The Main Religions of the World are the 'acceptable' renditions of a much better picture .
It's The only Adventure worth pursuing but go it alone you must and avoid the throng on the busy highways . I'm not saying where i am exactly but avoid the political theatrics and feel-good ideas because they tend to manipulate the masses . I understand the cynicism here but i'm not making any more comments on this thread .

Bannasidhe

iguana wrote: »

How newmug seems to be reading these latest few posts;

Oh dear. I hope I'm not coming down with something nasty .

TheChizler

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Oh dear. I hope I'm not coming down with something nasty .

You're probably not. Have you figured out from that other thread if you exist yet? Pretty sure you can't come down with something if you don't exist.

ShooterSF

paddyandy wrote: »

The Popular Religions of the World are for Ordinary People but that does not make Religion a "Fairy Story" .The Main Religions of the World are the 'acceptable' renditions of a much better picture .
It's The only Adventure worth pursuing but go it alone you must and avoid the throng on the busy highways . I'm not saying where i am exactly but avoid the political theatrics and feel-good ideas because they tend to manipulate the masses . I understand the cynicism here but i'm not making any more comments on this thread .

The elders tell of a young ball much like you. He bounced three meters in the air, then he bounced 1.8 meters in the air, then he bounced four meters in the air. Do I make myself clear?

Gbear

I think the whole line that "they're not your children, mind your own business" is bollocks.

If you saw a women hitting her child in public, at the very least, you'd judge them based on it.

It's perfectly normal to look at what Catholic brainwashing is, whether it works all the time or not, and be deeply unsettled by it.
If you see somebody doing bad things to other people, especially children, I don't think it's being in any way "nosey" to get annoyed by it.

Bannasidhe

TheChizler wrote: »

You're probably not. Have you figured out from that other thread if you exist yet? Pretty sure you can't come down with something if you don't exist.

Gee thanks- now I'm having a relapse of existential crisis :mad:.

doctoremma

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Gee thanks- now I'm having a relapse of existential crisis :mad:.

If you don't, yet there are many people here who could testify to receiving clear, unambiguous messages from you, with all witnesses confirming the same messages, you'd be ahead of god by now.

Sonics2k

ShooterSF wrote: »

The elders tell of a young ball much like you. He bounced three meters in the air, then he bounced 1.8 meters in the air, then he bounced four meters in the air. Do I make myself clear?

Mr Ambassador, our people tell the same story.

Bannasidhe

doctoremma wrote: »

If you don't, yet there are many people here who could testify to receiving clear, unambiguous messages from you, with all witnesses confirming the same messages, you'd be ahead of god by now.

But the texts apparently written by the poster named Bannasidhe could, in fact, be written by a collection of individuals in order to 'prove' the existence of Bannasidhe. :eek:

It's a conundrum...

Sarky

I believe in you, Bannasidhe.

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

I believe in you, Bannasidhe.

At last - a believer. I shall name you Basalt and upon your rock I shall build my church.

Now - go forth and preach the word of Bannasidhe (better get someone to write some gospels first - I'm far too busy watching women beat the living daylights out of other women on the telly right now.)

Basic message:
1. Do not be dicks to each other.
2. Well done steak is an abomination.
3. Ummmm...oh make some ****e up....just ensure that the ****e contradicts itself so my follower may use the 'context' argument. That makes me laugh and is pleasing onto mine eyes.

mikhail

Wow, this thread is weird even by A&A standards. Did someone link to here from After Hours again?

Nodin

paddyandy wrote: »

The Popular Religions of the World are for Ordinary People but that does not make Religion a "Fairy Story" .The Main Religions of the World are the 'acceptable' renditions of a much better picture .
It's The only Adventure worth pursuing but go it alone you must and avoid the throng on the busy highways . I'm not saying where i am exactly but avoid the political theatrics and feel-good ideas because they tend to manipulate the masses . I understand the cynicism here but i'm not making any more comments on this thread .

Considering that you wouldn't bother explaining those same comments, I can safely say we're none the worse for the lack of them.

Bannasidhe

mikhail wrote: »

Wow, this thread is weird even by A&A standards. Did someone link to here from After Hours again?

I see is as more an example of what happens when people are thinking - it can lead to some pretty funky places .

Sappa

Freiheit wrote: »

Saw drawings my niece made the other day about Jesus,I feel really annoyed that so many children,most children today are still being brainwashed in the fictional charachter of Jesus (no evidence he even existed),when will it ever change? I know Ruari Quinn wants a more secular education system but even that will only be about a quarter of schools. I feel annoyed that so much time is being wasted on this ancient myth which has no relevance to the world. Much of my formative years were wasted and it's still going on.

How many parents believe Jesus was the saviour,yet most children are being brainwashed in all that tripe.

Just wanted to air that. If anyone relates well hearing from like minds is always welcome!

It's none of your business as they ain't your kids,simples.

Freiheit

It's the principle of what's being done to children in our society,not their parentage. It's child abuse and a massive waste of resources.

Bannasidhe

Sappa wrote: »

It's none of your business as they ain't your kids,simples.

Is it the business of parent's who do not want their children to receive religious instruction but have no choice in the matter?

Einhard

Freiheit wrote: »

It's child abuse and a massive waste of resources.

Ah now, that's a tad extreme.

Bannasidhe

Einhard wrote: »

Ah now, that's a tad extreme.

Extreme perhaps, but telling children that unless they follow a particular religion they will spend eternity in hell is also extreme, and arguably, psychologically abusive.

TheChizler

Einhard wrote: »

Ah now, that's a tad extreme.

Not child abuse in the conventional sense, but certainly in the freedom of religion/whatever sense.

iguana

Sappa wrote: »

It's none of your business as they ain't your kids,simples.

As this particular form of religious instruction is being provided by 92% of state funded schools it's the business of every taxpayer.

Sappa

iguana wrote: »

Sappa wrote: »

It's none of your business as they ain't your kids,simples.

As this particular form of religious instruction is being provided by 92% of state funded schools it's the business of every taxpayer.

I would rather see the kids learning values than nothing at all.
They get their core ideas from the home and a 30 minute class in religion is certainly not a form of child abuse that some numpty stated earlier.
If I had kids they probably would be raised Buddhist as I see these as great principles to follow in life being their mother is Buddhist she nor I couldn't give two hoots if they were thought religion at school as it's all a learning process.
We get too concerned about every issue in society,we should be pushing more energy into making sure the kids have sporting facilities,language labs etc and that they are aware of the dangers from drink and drugs.

equivariant

self test to see if the brainwashing worked on you

1. "The bible is a bit mad but sure religion gives them some decent rules by which to live - so it can't be that bad"

2. " I don't pay any heed to all that stuff myself but sure I don't want the kids to feel left out at communion time"

3. "I know the old testament is a bit strange but Jesus was a great example to us all"

If you find yourself agreeing (even slightly) with any of the above statements then the brainwashing did its job on you quite well

Freiheit

A corpse on a cross in every room...how numpty is that? why not an electric chair? values do not require religion.

Teaching children fables as fact,the existence of a supernatural realm as fact,that's abusing their minds.

Sappa

Freiheit wrote: »

A corpse on a cross in every room...how numpty is that? why not an electric chair? values do not require religion.

Teaching children fables as fact,the existence of a supernatural realm as fact,that's abusing their minds.

Ohh please,
Your either a desperate attention seeker or have warped ideas of what child abuse is.
I'm thinking you need to get a boy of reality into your life and speak with a victim of child abuse,they would swap their suffering for am hour a day of religious teaching any day.

equivariant

Sappa wrote: »

Ohh please,
Your either a desperate attention seeker or have warped ideas of what child abuse is.
I'm thinking you need to get a boy of reality into your life and speak with a victim of child abuse,they would swap their suffering for am hour a day of religious teaching any day.

not all abuse has to be of the physical/sexual kind. i think that you are the one who should rethink your understanding of the term abuse

PopePalpatine

I wonder if newmug is the (in)famous Eric Conway...:rolleyes:

dharma200

I have had one child go through the catholic national school system, and two more entering it. The alivo o books are actually quite entertaining on a fictional level, and instead of not allowing my non religious children to be part of religious class i go through all the books at home, remind my children the reasons why they are being taught this in school, and try to take the moral part out of the book without the god part.

When my sons class were doing confirmation my son had to sit in a class two years down from his own and was told to do maths excersises. He felt somewhat punished but I reminded him that in my own opinion if he was being taught maths instead of religion; the time swapped over from prayers, learning hymns and all that tosh, he would be in a good positon in the future to get a good leaving and get a good place in college and get on with his life.

My daughters junior infants religion book actually makes me cringe a little, thank god for this, that and the next thing, for clothes, holidays, for happiness etc ect. I know she will be a bit confused as she is sensitive. I have no cohoice but to send my children to a catholic school (same as 90% of the population I reckon).

It is a dreadful waste of time to teach one religion in schools, and because one religion is taught it is indeed indoctrination. Subtle, insidious and constant... Every year for the past seven years I have went through the religious books with my son, taken the moral aspect, explained the fioctional aspect as I see it, opened discussions about dinosaurs, other fables myths etc. Talked about other religions, the history of religion in ireland, the death toll of religion around the world.. this in my opinion is how you avoid your children from EVER being indoctrinated, be it in school, or out of school as young adults. So it may have taken me a while to come to terms with, but by this complete crap being taught in school, it has actually benefited my child by opening discussions. Children are not so stupid or fearful anymore either, but the peer pressure and finacial gains of catholisism as a child have to be countered. Communion confirmation money, the wedding dresses, being married to god, thanking god for the pair of scocks you have on... a bit like santa getting all the credit for the hard slog every year that parents have to fulfill, some of the myths are of for a while, but eventually if you talk to your child, show evidence and encourage critical thought it should be a winning formula. It has been with my own child who has been through the national school system, and I am hoping it will be the same for my other two children. Religion and eductaion should be completely seperate, trhe recent advertising in Junior cert books by thereligious right Youth Defense shows me that I have to stay vigilant, look through all my childrens school books and talk to them about as much as I can so they are armed with confidence to counteract any religious organisations bull****....

Nodin

Sappa wrote: »

I would rather see the kids learning values than nothing at all.
............

"values" from a religion that their parents may not in whole or in part subscrive to. Hardly acceptable in this day and age.

pwurple

dharma200 wrote: »

He felt somewhat punished..

It's a pity your boy had to go through this. Was there no COI school either?

Was there any social impact to him being excluded from these events in the other childrens lives.

Sappa

So many nutters here

Sarky

Examples? You don't get to make a statement like that without backing it up.