House plan drawings

New build in sight

archtech wrote: »

Nobody here has ever said its easy however there are times when some of the hard work could have been avoided having sought and taken the advice of experience beforehand. A definition of Experience is learning from prior mistakes





You might clarify how buying your plans on line would have saved yourself €1200 , if you only spend €1200, as you have stated in response to BryanF's question. You found that you can buy a set of plans for approximately €500, fair enough but did that include the relevant marked OS Map Extracts, and surveyed Site Plan for inclusion as part of the planning application. Then there's a site suitability test for most rural applications also.



And what opinion/experience did you want to offer the OP, other than not to listen to the advice of the professional posted here.

The €1200 was for the plans only. We had other expenses on top of that for site maps and planning applications etc. Percolation test etc was also an extra fee, our architech could not complete this test, we needed to get someone else to do it.
Read my post again and you can see for yourself what opinion/experience i provided the OP with. MY experience.
I dont see how you costantly trying to belittle me or catch me out with my posts is benefiting anyone, i never belittled you or any other professionals, i simply gave my personal experience. We all live and learn and if i could do it all again, i would personally have perhaps given more thought to buying plans online. When we were with our Architech I flicked through a load of his plans "online" and then choose one, it had previously been approved in another county, he flipped the design so it was more south facing to capture sun etc. That was it. €1200 for this in my opinion was high now that i have learnt a lot more. I would love to say this happened once, but it didnt, we bought about 3 other designs of him before too, no point me going into the reasons of the history of this, but please jsut accept my explanation and my opinion as is. If you want to offer the OP some advice then go ahead, but I never asked for your advice, I only responded to the OP. I never asked for this debate.

rayjdav

New build in sight wrote: »

What do you mean? Is this question directed at me? If so then of course I would.

I assume that what was meant was that if you knew an inexperienced self builder built the house, learning on the job, would you be confident as a probable purchaser to pay a hugh sum of money for what is probably not 100% correct. Nothing personal but I have yet to meet a newbie who got all the important issues right 1st time out...

Just like a doctor, I have no problem with the student standing there and learning, but beside and under professional instruction from a more experienced doctor. Otherwise he/she aint sticking any type of needle in me, anywhere.........

New build in sight

rayjdav wrote: »

I assume that what was meant was that if you knew an inexperienced self builder built the house, learning on the job, would you be confident as a probable purchaser to pay a hugh sum of money for what is probably not 100% correct. Nothing personal but I have yet to meet a newbie who got all the important issues right 1st time out...

Just like a doctor, I have no problem with the student standing there and learning, but beside and under professional instruction from a more experienced doctor. Otherwise he/she aint sticking any type of needle in me, anywhere.........

It isn't like we are out there with our bare hands doing this all ourselves, we are project managing incredibly skilled and reputable builders to work for us. We have been researching this for 6 long years. This is not something we have taken lightly. I certainly would not spend all this money I thought wouldnt end up absolutely perfect. And yes I do in fact expect it to be 100% perfect 1st time, i do not intend to do it again

I am updating in live self builds thread. So you can follow my posts there as i feel we are now pulling this thread off topic

I am not feeling the love anymore on here......

rayjdav

New build in sight wrote: »

I am not feeling the love anymore on here......

Group hug then:D

muffler

New build in sight wrote: »

I am not feeling the love anymore on here......

If you're female I'll sort you out

Ah listen, dont take it personally. Any comment posted here or in any forum can and often is dissected and scrutinised responded to especially if its in contrast to what the majority of other posters are saying.

There is nothing wrong with the route you have chosen if you are happy enough with it at the end of the day. What the guys here (including myself) are saying in response to the OP is that its more beneficial in the long run to have your house designed to suit you, the site and to comply with various regulations.

sinnerboy

rayjdav wrote: »

I assume that what was meant was that if you knew an inexperienced self builder built the house, learning on the job, would you be confident as a probable purchaser to pay a hugh sum of money for what is probably not 100% correct. Nothing personal but I have yet to meet a newbie who got all the important issues right 1st time out...

Just like a doctor, I have no problem with the student standing there and learning, but beside and under professional instruction from a more experienced doctor. Otherwise he/she aint sticking any type of needle in me, anywhere.........

Got it in one rayjdav.

I expect everyone to answer "yes" to the question as I put. But then - would you buy a house of a total stranger who self built like this ?

archtech

New build in sight wrote: »

The €1200 was for the plans only. We had other expenses on top of that for site maps and planning applications etc. Percolation test etc was also an extra fee, our architech could not complete this test, we needed to get someone else to do it.
Read my post again and you can see for yourself what opinion/experience i provided the OP with. MY experience.
I dont see how you costantly trying to belittle me or catch me out with my posts is benefiting anyone, i never belittled you or any other professionals, i simply gave my personal experience. We all live and learn and if i could do it all again, i would personally have perhaps given more thought to buying plans online. When we were with our Architech I flicked through a load of his plans "online" and then choose one, it had previously been approved in another county, he flipped the design so it was more south facing to capture sun etc. That was it. €1200 for this in my opinion was high now that i have learnt a lot more. I would love to say this happened once, but it didnt, we bought about 3 other designs of him before too, no point me going into the reasons of the history of this, but please jsut accept my explanation and my opinion as is. If you want to offer the OP some advice then go ahead, but I never asked for your advice, I only responded to the OP. I never asked for this debate.

So to clarify you could have saved in the order of 50-60% of what you paid your designer, had you bought a set of plans online based on current prices. I note you started the process a number of years ago when everything was more expensive. It was unclear initially as to whether the €1200 was the all in price for preparing the drawing and planning application or just the plans of the house. At least now the OP understands that he still has to add more to the €500 or so for a set of plans should he choose to buy them online, if he wants to go that route.

The fact that you have ended up spending a considerable amount of money on plans, (3 or 4 different designs in total) has that not illustrated to you that buying a set of "pre-drawn plans" may not be not as cost effective as it appears. Admittedly it might have been 6 years ago. I assume all drawings relate to the same site. Certainly what you've ended up paying on top of the other monies relating to the site drawings etc would have brought you a bespoke design with full design service (design, tender, inspection,certification) for at least one house and number of sketch designs.

At the end of the day it highly unlikely that I'm going to benefit from the route the op takes however for the op to make an informed decision its best to have as many of the facts as possible from both sides of the argument so that they can see all the pit falls. Based on your first post one could have easily assumed that it cost you €1200 for all the drawings necessary for you planning application and construction, and that it could be done even cheaper by buying online, however it has transpired that this is not the case. I'm not suggesting that you intended to imply that was the fact, so teasing out the matter was of benefit to the op.

Innish_Rebel

Seeing as there seems to be two totally opposing points of view on this discussion. Currently in the middle of a build where we did hire an Arch to do the designs.

He did a design to our requirements, don't know if he did it from scratch or not - to be honest I don't care to much as we reviewd it numerous times with him with plenty of modifications along the way and it was what we wanted. He suggested and knew things I would never have even considered. He did the planning submission etc apart from percolation test. With maps, photocopying/printing and associated stuff total was less than €2k.

I look at it as 2 things.

1. As a percentage of overall build cost it is small to get a house that was what we wanted. If you can get the same from online plans - that is great, we didn't see anything for us that ticked all the boxes.
2. Within a five mile radius of where I got my planning. I know numerous people who've had major hassle getting planning, ours went through without a problem.

I suppose I wanted to put the point as opposed to "new build" I, if I had the time back, would still definitely go the route I have gone down.

As an aside I work as an engineer in the electronics industry, and I know how much my time is charged out at by my employers. Now I know I don't get that money myself but to do the work my arch did I would consider with the time involved in meeting with me plus drawings etc that there was value for work done - up to individuals to decide if that is also value for money...

BryanF

New build in sight wrote: »

Technically I could almost say we did, since we did simply buy a set of pre approved plans from our architech. These plans were approved by someone else in another county, so he made a few changes so they were not exact and this is what we sent in to our planners. The plans themselves were never questioned, we were refused on other reasons which we eventually overcame.

technically nothing! consider re reading your own posts in this thread please

Casati

jocotty wrote: »

So , where do i start so....im not a architect, i dont have any house drawings and am living in the real world, trying to build a house in a recession. obviously cost is an issue. just want cheap drawings, which i can look at , and change myself to what i like. we cant all afford the luxury to "sit with an Architectural Technician "....

I said to sit with somebody drawing the house as thats what I did. The experts on the site don't like to admit that self builders generally do great jobs as it doesn't help their chances of getting work. Too often on this site the vested interest from the experts comes to the surface as they dismiss out of hand posters like myself whiteout having a clue about what we have done, and what you are capable of doing yourself with time and effort.

To clarify, the approach I think you should take is to basically design the house yourself to your own requirements, using whatever existing plans you can see for inspiration. Considering site aspect is very important but its not rocket science- think about how you will use the house and what rooms its more important for you to have more natural light in etc. If you want to use solar you should ideally have roof space south facing to stick them on. Keeping it simple will reduce building costs- if you have a 'fancy' design then builders/ tradesmen will see the dollar signs at every single stage in the process. Note- if the site is very complex, e.g. on the side of a steep hill then get an architect familiar with such problems.

I drew out my design on A3 sheets, and brought it to somebody good with cad and got them to turn my drawing into a proper drawings, taking into account such things as building regs and local planning regulations. I literally sat with him as he drew the main 'plan' view on auto cad - I left them to do the contiguous evalations etc by themselves. Somebody sharp with auto cad and experienced in this work should easily draw up your house in half a day assuming you keep it simple. They might be an arch tech, a architect or indeed an engineer or technician

Note- once you get though planning, you can re-jig the internal layout of the house as long as you keep within the planning reg's so its not locked in stone. Prior to starting building works, you will need your drawing converted to technical drawings to give to each of the trades you have on site, some of this you can do yourself but you will probably need to revisit your. Also in order to meet building reg's you will need to spend a lot of time ensuring you insulate/ heat your house efficiently- I think you need to get an A3 rating from next year at a minimum so this will take a lot of research on your part.

Good luck and enjoy the process.

rayjdav

Casati, that process worked for you. Great. But for the most part a decent AT/Arch/Tech does not need you sitting looking over their shoulder. A basic sketch/notes/chat usually does the trick.

Makes no differnce to me personally how you built but I, like most others here, give out (FREE) advice gained over many years doing the work so know a thing or 2 about the process. Most are happy to get the advice. Few gain a lot of work from it so where's the vested interest??

We do advise that you get someone who knows what they are doing for at least the technical aspects of the work, planning submission etc. as other wise it will cost more in the long run, eg invalid applications etc. but once again, I don't care if you(anyone) takes heed or not.

Wouldn't be much of a site if it consisted of general opinion only, free for all akin to After Hours quoting Wikipedia as fact..

muffler

Casati wrote: »

The experts on the site don't like to admit that self builders generally do great jobs as it doesn't help their chances of getting work. Too often on this site the vested interest from the experts comes to the surface as they dismiss out of hand posters like myself whiteout having a clue about what we have done, and what you are capable of doing yourself with time and effort.

I find those comments a tad insulting especially coming from someone who was happy enough to seek and get free advice in the past from professionals on this forum.

sinnerboy

Meh ... thats what the ignore function is for. My list grows.....

New build in sight

muffler wrote: »

I find those comments a tad insulting especially coming from someone who was happy enough to seek and get free advice in the past from professionals on this forum.

Well if we are continously attacked and our posts are torn to shreds everytime we post on here, you can see how some people can start to feel like this. Look at how BryanF seems to respond to every post i post with some kind of insult, albeit subtle but still insulting to us amateurs as i was called previously. Perhaps it would help if these experts indicated which fields they were experts in then we would know where to go for this advice. But currently it seems everyone on this site are experts in every aspect of building. It is great that we can all share our experiences etc. and i love to hear everyones elses tales, but I am starting to think its not worth feeling this bad when all i wanted to do was share my experience. I never asked for adice on this thread whatsoever but i was attacked from all angles and my opinions were slated by all these experts.

Is everyone on boards.ie a professional? When i come to boards.ie i expect to get a diverse range of opinions and experience not vested interests in their own business.

sydthebeat

lads, lets take a step back here for a minute.... we've gone wild off topic... and its a topic that very pertinent to the majority of frequent posters here.

Whether or not 'direct labour builds' can be successful is like anything else in life... if the effort is put into it then theres a better chance of success. However like every professions, you can have good self builders and some really bad ones. In my experience the good self builders are those with a background in either construction and / or some sort of project management.
key to the success is also the skills and professionalism of the tradespersons on site.

One of the best self builders who frequents here is SAS... a guy who self built and project managed a 'certified' passive house build (well... on the way to being anyway). He can tell you the hours upon hours thats needs to research and plan... and still mistakes will be made.

In my opinion, a 'self builder' who doesnt have prior knowledge of a construction site is totally dependent on the skills of his tradespeople and the success of the build is in their hands. A novice self builder simply will not be able to spot pit falls and / or the best way to resolve issues simply because these require experience.

a novice self builder and 'fly by night' tradespeople is a recipe for disaster.
Unfortunately on public forums like this more often than not you only hear the good news stories.. the €'s saved etc.... posters dont come on and tell the horror stories of budgets being over run, building reg non compliance.. of build schedules doubling etc. In fact most of the time we here advise self builders of non reg compliance is the first time they hear of such.


But back on topic.... and ill still revert back to my other post in this thread.... do you really think its a good idea to purchase the plans for your most expensive investment in your life from an impartial on line source?

to 'new build in sight' ... sorry the description of how you obtained your plans are not what the OP is asking about in regard to

plan on getting the house drawings from the internet

sinnerboy

sydthebeat wrote: »

do you really think its a good idea to purchase the plans for your most expensive investment in your life from an impartial on line source?

.... note the number of times the OP uses the word "cheap" . Left to his own devices all will be cheap but for his borrowings.

Casati

rayjdav wrote: »

I assume that what was meant was that if you knew an inexperienced self builder built the house, learning on the job, would you be confident as a probable purchaser to pay a hugh sum of money for what is probably not 100% correct. Nothing personal but I have yet to meet a newbie who got all the important issues right 1st time out...

Just like a doctor, I have no problem with the student standing there and learning, but beside and under professional instruction from a more experienced doctor. Otherwise he/she aint sticking any type of needle in me, anywhere.........

On the other hand would you buy a house that a builder built simply to make a profit on? Some builders are great, and have brilliant attention to detail, but others will do the bare minimum and 'plaster over the cracks'

Casati

rayjdav wrote: »

Casati, that process worked for you. Great. But for the most part a decent AT/Arch/Tech does not need you sitting looking over their shoulder. A basic sketch/notes/chat usually does the trick.

Makes no differnce to me personally how you built but I, like most others here, give out (FREE) advice gained over many years doing the work so know a thing or 2 about the process. Most are happy to get the advice. Few gain a lot of work from it so where's the vested interest??

We do advise that you get someone who knows what they are doing for at least the technical aspects of the work, planning submission etc. as other wise it will cost more in the long run, eg invalid applications etc. but once again, I don't care if you(anyone) takes heed or not.

Wouldn't be much of a site if it consisted of general opinion only, free for all akin to After Hours quoting Wikipedia as fact..

I have received some good advise from the construction & planning forum, thats really why I read the comments now and might offer my experience. Its a shame that some posters dismiss out of hand some of the comments made by the self builders like myself.

You are 100% correct that it can be tricky to get planning submissions through, and needs a lot of time an effort studying the relevant documentation to meet all the requirements- professionals should be able to get this stuff right first time, and as such can play a really valuable part if you are tight on time or simply not able nor interesting in going through planning guidelines and the like. If the OP wants to keep the cost low, then he can help to do so by doing as much of the work himself as possible, but as other posters have said if you do stuff without adequate research it can cost you money in the long run

New build in sight

Casati wrote: »

On the other hand would you buy a house that a builder built simply to make a profit on? Some builders are great, and have brilliant attention to detail, but others will do the bare minimum and 'plaster over the cracks'

One of the reasons we didn't buy a house as we simply couldnt find one as good a quality i would expect for the money i am paying. Thankfully we also felt like this in the boom!