Help to dev an app..

The Corinthian

ChRoMe wrote: »

App Store has paid out over 3 billion to developers in the last two years. Thats worth chewing on?

And 80% of paid apps on the appstore have been downloaded less than 100 times and only 2% have been downloaded more than 500,000 times.

I suggest you chew on that too.

jimmynokia

The Corinthian wrote: »

ChRoMe wrote: »

App Store has paid out over 3 billion to developers in the last two years. Thats worth chewing on?

And 80% of paid apps on the appstore have been downloaded less than 100 times and only 2% have been downloaded more than 500,000 times.

I suggest you chew on that too.

Nothing to chew on tbh the 3 billion says it all plus that's only IOS..

The Corinthian

jimmynokia wrote: »

Nothing to chew on tbh the 3 billion says it all plus that's only IOS..

Deep breath...

I think some people are missing the point here. Of course the apps market is potentially very lucrative to anyone who enters it, some indie developers make a nice living from it and some companies have genuinely made millions, but the key word is 'potentially'.

To simply suggest to someone who is clearly not in the industry that "apps are the way forward today and quite lucrative" or somehow publishing an app entitles you to a share of that $3 billion payout is akin to saying "if you're not in, you can't win", which is both hugely naive and poor advice to the OP.

Publishing an app, even a good app, is not enough. Most apps in reality don't even make enough money to pay for the cost of publishing them, let alone make any decent profit. And any of the top earners on either the iOS or Android markets spend silly money in ongoing marketing to stay in that slot, and even indie developers who do make a living from their apps will spend as much time, if not more, promoting their apps as developing them.

So not letting the OP know this and instead feeding him with this simplistic 'gold rush' propaganda is almost certain to lead to disappointment - unless he's lucky and his app rises to the top without effort, as sometimes happens. But then again, he can buy a Lotto ticket and win the jackpot too, if that's your logic.

Dean_Mc

This thread is mental...

If you want proper help from a software developer who can actually develop your app against x,y,z framework expect to pay about 15 - 20 euro an hour for the privilege. Honestly this carry on of "I'll handle the big picture you just do the minor dev work" needs to stop, people need to understand that software development is a highly complex process and we are paid good wages for this skill. The quote above is cheap compared to my actual salary...

As for this good idea, it's not a good idea, it's a flicker of a thought you have, to make the idea work here is what I would need to know.

01 : What platforms are we targeting.
02 : What do you want the app to look like.
03 : Give me the feature list.
04 : Give me the interaction guide for each feature on the list.
05 : Where do I find the calculation rules for each feature.
06 : What is your go to market strategy.
07 : Who is paying for the Artwork and Dev account?
08 : Who is managing bug / feature list and how?
09 : Are we saving calculations? How? Where ?
10 : Do you have any branding in mind, name, slogan, colour scheme?
11 : If yes to 10 were are these assets coming from?
12 : Who is managing go to market and marketing in general?
13 : What is the long term viability of an app like this, how much research have you done into ROI?
14 : How do we handle knock off's and piracy?

and these are just a few off the top of my head. The best apps take months and months of intensive work with people who are experts in the subject they are working with. What you think you have and what you will end up with are two different things...

jimmynokia.... You need to go look at the cold hard facts, very few app developers make enough to survive on, most take up other paying work just to get buy. You are talking about a flooded market with a once per app for life payment... The money is not there to be farting around... Only the best make it and of them most are game developers...

The Corinthian

Dean_Mc wrote: »

If you want proper help from a software developer who can actually develop your app against x,y,z framework expect to pay about 15 - 20 euro an hour for the privilege.

I presume you're talking about outsourcing to Pakistan or India here?

Unless there are hordes of developers sitting on street corners in Dublin with cardboard signs saying "will code for food", I very much doubt that any professional developer in Ireland would charge that little.

Dean_Mc

The Corinthian wrote: »

I presume you're talking about outsourcing to Pakistan or India here?

Unless there are hordes of developers sitting on street corners in Dublin with cardboard signs saying "will code for food", I very much doubt that any professional developer in Ireland would charge that little.

Yes, I meant to convey that even at that price you would be getting your work done very cheap. But this is the lowest per hour charge I have ever seen for serious offers based on about 80 hours work with all graphical assets provided and to be honest I bet most are looking at that price in disgust... Cheek of us, sure we only sit typing all day....

The Corinthian

Dean_Mc wrote: »

Yes, I meant to convey that even at that price you would be getting your work done very cheap. But this is the lowest per hour charge I have ever seen for serious offers based on about 80 hours work with all graphical assets provided and to be honest I bet most are looking at that price in disgust... Cheek of us, sure we only sit typing all day....

Still, even at a discounted rate, it's pretty low for western Europe. I think the lowest I ever went was about €35 p.hr., but I was also getting equity with that.

I deal with a lot of start-ups. They're fun to work with when they have a clue, which means that for every 10 would-be entrepreneurs with an 'idea', only one or two are worth a second conversation.

So, I wouldn't get too upset about it. Ultimately it's their time they're wasting, not yours.

Dean_Mc

The Corinthian wrote: »

Still, even at a discounted rate, it's pretty low for western Europe. I think the lowest I ever went was about €35 p.hr., but I was also getting equity with that.

I deal with a lot of start-ups. They're fun to work with when they have a clue, which means that for every 10 would-be entrepreneurs with an 'idea', only one or two are worth a second conversation.

So, I wouldn't get too upset about it. Ultimately it's their time they're wasting, not yours.

Agreed, Interestingly I am also open to the right idea too. I have come across people who in their own right are experts and have worked solely for equity but it was an exception rather than the norm and this lady knew her stuff, it wasn't as much an idea as a crystal clear brain dump that I could build an app around.

mark renton

This thread should be renamed "How to pi$$ off a programmer by telling him you have an idea"

Tiddlypeeps

You guys are being incredibly harsh.

I do find it annoying when I am asked to work on an idea for only equity by somebody who has put no more work into the idea than just coming up with a weak idea.

The OP my not have given away everything he has to bring to the table. He might be a carpenter and therefore have a deep understanding of the need the app is addressing. If he is then he could also be a respected authority in his field and due to that could have a lot of sway in recommending tools to others in his field making the marketing effort a lot easier. That sort of knowledge and/or exposure is expensive and valuable.

He might not be any of those things, but jumping down his throat assuming he is just a nobody with a weak unthought out idea without even asking is incredibly arrogant. All he seemed to be asking for is a discussion with anybody who might be interested in working for free on the right idea, if that is not you then you have no reason to take part in the discussion.

Niche speciality apps like this can be quite lucrative they don't rely on charts or rankings to gain downloads. Unlike games you can charge a lot more than 0.99c for them and you can even use a saas model (charge a monthly fee instead of a once off payment). If it's designed well and their is a market for it then word of mouth can be the only marketing tool you need.

jimmynokia

Agreed it's sad to see there is some numpties slamming the op.

The Corinthian

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I do find it annoying when I am asked to work on an idea for only equity by somebody who has put no more work into the idea than just coming up with a weak idea.

I don't think anyone suggested it was a weak idea, some even went so far as to suggest it might be a good one. However, the OP did fully admit that this is all they have and that they didn't even expect to make any money out of it.

If this is the case, the best they can presently hope for is that someone come along who will build it, either for fun or because they can monetize it, and if the latter the best the OP can expect realistically is a small minority stake in it. If so they really should say they're happy with this and some developers may well come forward to hear him out privately.

It's actually really important to 'jump down the throat' of ideas; as Dean_Mc pointed out, "cold hard facts" are what matters in the end. If no one does, then the person with the idea could well end up chasing it fruitlessly for months or years until finally, after numerous 'business partners', they give up the ghost and realize that they just waisted a lot of time, effort, money and lost opportunities on something that someone could have told them was a non-runner at the start.

Or the process of ruthlessly reviewing an idea can result in new perspectives and save considerable time where otherwise you might be going down dead ends before finding the business model that works. Having worked with start-ups for twenty years, I can tell you that almost none end up doing what they originally intended to do.

Instead we got this 'gold rush' nonsense about how 'lucrative' the mobile space is. If you disagree, of course, you're welcome to go off and build it for him.

Dean_Mc

I concur,

I am a generally nice guy and will always offer help and support to people who are just getting started, I think the more people in Ireland working on tech, the better. Having said that, software is not built on idea's, it is built on ruthless planning and more importantly, cutting. Any successful piece of software is a complex undertaking that involves more than a quick brainstorm. I've been to meetings that had to be broken up in to weeks because we needed to nail down specifics of just one feature.

What is the point in sugar coating it? If I was to tell the OP how great it was that they had an idea and build up the fact that they bring something marketable to the table they could get shafted down the road by someone. The fact of the matter is if the person was a master in their chosen area they don't have an idea, they have a plan, and are able to work with you as a consultant, there is a marked difference between the former and the latter.

Also, you have to understand, there is a group of people out their that genuinely believe that they can pay people minimum sums to realise their idea's and rake it in, I certainly wont help add to that group...


Oh, and if you think we are bad, ask an artist to work on some assets for your game / business / site for free or shares... There be dragons...