50hz in, 60hz out transformer/converter

olewy

Hi I bought an Omega 8004 juicer in the States for use in Ireland. Underneath the juicer says: 120v 60hz 150w

I assume I need a ~200w step down transformer (240v in, 120v out), correct? If so i'd also like to get one that can also take 50hz in & 60hz out (so that the motor in the juicer operates at the speed it was designed to, rather than faster or slower). Do these exist? Are they expensive? Where's the best place to buy one?

The power lead is integrated into the juicer's base (ie not detachable) & is fitted with a 3 pin plug (North American. 2 flat pins & one round pin). I assume most 240v in :120v out step down transformers would/should have the suitable 3 hole socket at one side to take this plug?

Bruthal

Its likely a universal motor with brushes in that item, and so the supply frequency would make no difference to the motor itself.

Whether the electronics in it may be affected is another story, but it will probably work properly once the voltage is correct. Frequency conversion is not practical for such items.

kirving

I really doubt there's any need for frequency conversion, it's very complicated. Regarding voltage, many devices such as phone chargers and computers can take anywhere between 100-240V, so check that out to be sure.

olewy

robbie7730 wrote: »

Its likely a universal motor with brushes in that item, and so the supply frequency would make no difference to the motor itself.

Whether the electronics in it may be affected is another story, but it will probably work properly once the voltage is correct. Frequency conversion is not practical for such items.

Thanks Robbie. When you say that the supply frequency would make no difference to the motor itself do you mean that the motor would probably still run at the same speed. E.g. the single auger in the juicer which the motor is attached to runs at approx 85rpm. I assume you mean that despite the difference in frequency it probably will still run at 85rpm?

Re the electronics being affected; that's the thing, hopefully I won't burn the motor out or something.

I assume a 200W or so step down transformer would therefore do the trick. Any recommendations re where to buy these? Peats sell a 300W auto transformer for €59 but wattage & cost-wise maybe that's overkill. http://www.peats.com/cgi-bin/catalog_v2.cgi?type=product&id=4724

Any suggestions on where to get one closer to the 200W rating (to give the 150W rating of the juicer some overhead).

olewy

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I really doubt there's any need for frequency conversion, it's very complicated. Regarding voltage, many devices such as phone chargers and computers can take anywhere between 100-240V, so check that out to be sure.

Thanks Kevin, the rating written on the juicer itself states 120V so I don't think its dual voltage capable like a lot of laptop a/c adapters for example. As its not written on the juicer (or its spec in its manual) its not something I want to take a risk testing without having the safety net of a step down transformer between the juicer and the mains.

BrianDug

Robbie is saying that the motor will not be damaged by the different supply frequency although there will be a small change in the rpm it operates at.

olewy

I ended up buying a 300W step down transformer from Maplins for e39.99 (down from e56 apparently);
http://www.maplin.co.uk/300w-uk-to-usa-voltage-convertor-265288

Works like a charm (so far anyway)...

Bruthal

BrianDug wrote: »

Robbie is saying that the motor will not be damaged by the different supply frequency although there will be a small change in the rpm it operates at.

I was actually saying that only an induction motor will be affected by frequency. A universal motor wont be affected between 50 and 60hz.

Roshikat

olewy wrote: »

I ended up buying a 300W step down transformer from Maplins for e39.99 (down from e56 apparently);
http://www.maplin.co.uk/300w-uk-to-usa-voltage-convertor-265288

Works like a charm (so far anyway)...

I know I am reviving this old thread I wanted to know whether the juicer is still working fine at 50hz and how frequently you use it. It was gifted to me by friend but the problem is in India we have 50 hz frequency where as juicer is meant to run at 60 hz. I can arrange for step down voltage transformer but what to do with frequency. The juicer has single phase induction motor. In the last two days I went through all the physics associated with induction motor working on different frequency. Please suggest me some solution.

liveandnetural

good question

SpaceTime

If you just step the voltage down to 110-120V 50Hz the machine will most likely work fine.
If it's a universal motor, it won't make any difference and if it's an induction motor your machine will run a little bit slower than designed but it may not make much difference to the reality of how it operates.

Any electronics on board will usually run on DC anyway so if there are any controls or displays they more than likely will not care.
Googled the machine there and it doesn't look like it has anything remotely electronic on it. It's just a big motor with a switch.

It's possible that it's an AC motor.

Incidentally, the same machine's easily available in Europe.

For example : http://www.ukjuicers.com/omega-8004-juicer-nutrition-center

In general, I wouldn't buy any heavy electrical items in the US for use in the EU. It's just really messy with transformers and all that stuff especially when you'll usually find an equivalent or the exact same machine in 230V 50Hz versions over here.

It's actually very difficult to change frequency on a power supply and the equipment to do it is either a large motor driving a generator (motor-generator set) or some pretty expensive solid state stuff that is still not great.

Mostly, you really wouldn't be bothered doing it as it's so complicated.

There are some frequency converters available, but they're pretty specialist and expensive. For example the airline industry uses them as aircraft power is usually 400Hz.

olewy

Roshikat wrote: »

I know I am reviving this old thread I wanted to know whether the juicer is still working fine at 50hz and how frequently you use it. It was gifted to me by friend but the problem is in India we have 50 hz frequency where as juicer is meant to run at 60 hz. I can arrange for step down voltage transformer but what to do with frequency. The juicer has single phase induction motor. In the last two days I went through all the physics associated with induction motor working on different frequency. Please suggest me some solution.

Hi Roshikat, I've had no problems with my particular juicer & transformer. I juice approximately 2 to 4 times per week. It still ended up being cheaper to get the US juicer & EU transformer rather than a juicer in the EU but the transformer does add bulk.

SpaceTime

Just curious though did your calculation include shipping and US Sales tax and any VAT you might have been charged on the way in?

I just find sometimes US price tags can seem a lot cheaper than they actually are as they exclude sales tax and then when you add on shipping, especially of a heavy item, you're kinda losing most advantages.

olewy

SpaceTime wrote: »

Just curious though did your calculation include shipping and US Sales tax and any VAT you might have been charged on the way in?

I just find sometimes US price tags can seem a lot cheaper than they actually are as they exclude sales tax and then when you add on shipping, especially of a heavy item, you're kinda losing most advantages.

I got around shipping & US Sales tax by buying it from Amazon.com which had free shipping on the item & didn't add US Sales taxes.

I got around the Irish customs & excise duty by having a family member bring it over for me when returning from holidays. Irish customs/GLS would have picked a fee from thin air so it wouldn't have been possible to predict exactly how much I would have been charged anyway. I wasn't prepared to take that chance.

So my case isn't a fair comparison for the average buyer. But when I was pricing US vs EU prices I think with all things considered (including transformer) it was about the same cost. So obviously the EU juicer would be the safer, quicker & less hassle route in that case.

Some juicers from the UK were a bit cheaper than Irish suppliers but mostly identical prices when the Sterling exchange rate was taken into account.

SpaceTime

So technically cheaper when smuggled :P

cast_iron

olewy wrote: »

I got around shipping & US Sales tax by buying it from Amazon.com which had free shipping on the item & didn't add US Sales taxes.

I got around the Irish customs & excise duty by having a family member bring it over for me when returning from holidays. Irish customs/GLS would have picked a fee from thin air so it wouldn't have been possible to predict exactly how much I would have been charged anyway. I wasn't prepared to take that chance.

So my case isn't a fair comparison for the average buyer. But when I was pricing US vs EU prices I think with all things considered (including transformer) it was about the same cost. So obviously the EU juicer would be the safer, quicker & less hassle route in that case.

Some juicers from the UK were a bit cheaper than Irish suppliers but mostly identical prices when the Sterling exchange rate was taken into account.

And the biggest drawback from buying from the US is if it breaks down prematurely, it's pretty all but infeasible to send it back to the manufacturer fro repair.

olewy

cast_iron wrote: »

And the biggest drawback from buying from the US is if it breaks down prematurely, it's pretty all but infeasible to send it back to the manufacturer fro repair.

Unless you buy an item which has an International Warranty or if the manufacturer allows their US warranty to be honoured in Europe (check first obviously & the procedure/costs).

SpaceTime

olewy wrote: »

Unless you buy an item which has an International Warranty or if the manufacturer allows their US warranty to be honoured in Europe (check first obviously & the procedure/costs).

That would only apply to appliances intended for use all over the globe i.e. that accept 100-240V 50Hz or 60Hz - many electronic devices do that - laptops, desktop computers, etc

Most manufacturers of household appliances don't generally expect you to take them outside their intended market.

Also, you're using it on a power supply that isn't the rated one on the sticker on the appliance. It's asking for 110-120V 60Hz you're giving it 110-115V 50Hz.

That would almost definitely invalidate the warranty.

olewy

As I said; check first obviously & the procedure/costs.