Garda quits force & discloses disgraceful management

SocSocPol

mikemac1 wrote: »

A regular poster in that forum and is in Limerick I've no reason to doubt them.
Lots of serving gardaí in there


If you want more info, you'll have to ask them yourself

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056719686

No, thats fine, just wondered how you knew, thanks:)

maninasia

Colmustard wrote: »

Typical leftist attitude, money grows on trees, resources are infinite. It doesn't matter if he is right or wrong, what matters is his views are loaded. Its a rant from a guy who is moving on. Its not to be taken serious.

Cutbacks are a reality my wages has been slashed, I crib like fkcu, but I know why and I know there is nothing that can be done.

I wish I had the same options this twat seems to have. Good luck in his new and probably better paid career.

I live in a country with earnings per persons approximately half that of Ireland. The force here use a mix of low powered motorcycles, BMW motorcycles and high powered cars, often BMWs. There is no lack of police personnel although their professionalism is pretty low, they do have high visibility on the streets. They get paid twice the average wage here also. They are armed and if you make a run for it you do have a chance of getting shot up. Fair warning and everything.

The bigger differences are the lack of drug culture, drink culture and the lack of a merry-go-round justice system.

I'm amazed that he couldn't patrol due to lack of vehicles and petrol. That's ridiculous. That's what happens when you operate in a bankrupt state though. Perhaps they can get some help from local businesses or communities if the government is not going to step up. You either provide the police force with the tools to do the job or don't have a police force.

To be fair to the Guard aswell, he was working one of the toughest beats in the whole country and lasted approx 5 years.

The justice system is a joke in Ireland, and the skanger behaviour is among the worst in the world. Club to the head would sort it in most countries. Let's face it, most Irish people are too soft for their own good.

Einhard

I think a lot of people are reacting a tad hysterically to this article, and refusing to let the facts get in the way of said hysteria. People claim that AGS are underfunded and underresourced- but where's the evidence? Where are the figures to back this claim up?

In 2012, the justice budget is approx €2.3 billion, of which the Garda account for around €1.4 billion. Approximately 90% of the latter figures is expended on Garda pay and pensions. Perhaps if members of the service were willing to take a small pay cut, then more could be spent on cars and equipment? No? I thought not...

There are 14,411 Gardai in the country, based in over 700 stations, which works out as one Garda for every 318 people.

The Danish Rigspolitiet police, by comparison, has 9,415 officers, and a total of 13,655 employees. Even going by the second figure, which includes everything from cleaners to cooks, that's one member of the force for every 408 Danes. The last figures I could find for the Danish budget is 7.5 billion kroner, which amounts to a little over €1 billion, and covers the entire police force and the prosecution service. So, Denmark spends less on their criminal justice system than we do on our police service alone.

I had a look at the situation in other Western countries, and it appears that the pattern is borne out- that Ireland, in relative terms, has a well-funded, well-resourced police force. There are some countries with slightly more personnel per capita, and there are others with less. But there's nothing at all to suggest that AGS are dramtically under-resourced. And there's nothing really on which to base the the bald assertions that the justice system in this nation is crumbling, or is not fit for purpose. Go to the Daily Mail UK version, and the exact same type of thing will be heard, and I imagine it'd be the same on whatever Denmarks's or Portugal's verson of boards is. There are some shitty aspects of the justice system, and of course things could be improved, but I think on the whole, the doom-laden tenor of this thread is entirely unjustified. Especially when one looks at the situation in America, often cited by those who claim we Irish are soft in crime, and see wholesale redundancies in police forces, and huge slashes in spending on equipment.

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2011/12/minister-for-justice-equality-defence-estimates-speech-budget-2012/

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=55&Lang=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_S%C3%ADoch%C3%A1na

http://www.politi.dk/en/About_the_police/finance/

studdlymurphy

With 5 years in the public service are you entitled to full pension? I was told this a while back bay a guy in the prison service but not sure how true this is.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Einhard

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ooops!:D

Dionysius2

Einhard wrote: »

I think a lot of people are reacting a tad hysterically to this article, and refusing to let the facts get in the way of said hysteria. People claim that AGS are underfunded and underresourced- but where's the evidence? Where are the figures to back this claim up?

In 2012, the justice budget is approx €2.3 billion, of which the Garda account for around €1.4 billion. Approximately 90% of the latter figures is expended on Garda pay and pensions. Perhaps if members of the service were willing to take a small pay cut, then more could be spent on cars and equipment? No? I thought not...

There are 14,411 Gardai in the country, based in over 700 stations, which works out as one Garda for every 318 people.

The Danish Rigspolitiet police, by comparison, has 9,415 officers, and a total of 13,655 employees. Even going by the second figure, which includes everything from cleaners to cooks, that's one member of the force for every 408 Danes. The last figures I could find for the Danish budget is 7.5 billion kroner, which amounts to a little over €1 billion, and covers the entire police force and the prosecution service. So, Denmark spends less on their criminal justice system than we do on our police service alone.

I had a look at the situation in other Western countries, and it appears that the pattern is borne out- that Ireland, in relative terms, has a well-funded, well-resourced police force. There are some countries with slightly more personnel per capita, and there are others with less. But there's nothing at all to suggest that AGS are dramtically under-resourced. And there's nothing really on which to base the the bald assertions that the justice system in this nation is crumbling, or is not fit for purpose. Go to the Daily Mail UK version, and the exact same type of thing will be heard, and I imagine it'd be the same on whatever Denmarks's or Portugal's verson of boards is. There are some shitty aspects of the justice system, and of course things could be improved, but I think on the whole, the doom-laden tenor of this thread is entirely unjustified. Especially when one looks at the situation in America, often cited by those who claim we Irish are soft in crime, and see wholesale redundancies in police forces, and huge slashes in spending on equipment.

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2011/12/minister-for-justice-equality-defence-estimates-speech-budget-2012/

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=55&Lang=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_S%C3%ADoch%C3%A1na

http://www.politi.dk/en/About_the_police/finance/

Einhard.....you make a lot of very good points and have done some worthwhile digging to put your piece together....well done, etc.
But is it not the case that because of the way we administer aspects of our compliance legislation and manage quite a range of other services that the Gardai are saddled with duties that are not within the remit of national police in most other countries. Immigration control as operated through the Gardai is one such example. Immigration controls are a huge draw on manpower away from frontline services and in most of the countries used as a comparison are operated through independent agencies. Perhaps someone from the Garda side with the requisite knowledge will give some thought to this and tell us the range of services that the Gardai are encumbered with and which are not within the national police portfolio in other EU countries. Then we can make a more reliable assessment of the Garda ratio to people question.

Oh and please stop comparing Ireland with the USA., which is a basket case in regard to immigration controls, gun laws, drug laws, 9/11 legislative controls, etc. It's like comparing a sardine with a whale and finding comparisons....yeah right on...each has a tail and fins and eyes and a mouth and swims in the sea...so they must be the same....right ?

maninasia

It may be true that the resources are being badly managed. This would not be surprising.
But having no access to a patrol car or restricting patrols because of lack of funds for petrol is shocking. Something is very wrong.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056689934

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

maninasia

And there's nothing really on which to base the the bald assertions that the justice system in this nation is crumbling, or is not fit for purpose.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/alarm-over-number-of-crimes-committed-by-those-out-on-bail-2218900.html

The main "problem" in the Irish justice and penal systems appears to be that gardai are "far too efficient" at apprehending and gaining convictions for criminals, a government source mused last week. The observation was sardonic, but, the source pointed out, quite true.
If the gardai captured fewer criminals, then the courts and prisons would be able to cope better. There would be more space in prisons and a greater ability to rehabilitate prisoners. The "revolving door" of temporary release and bail would end, so fewer criminals could be said to be at large committing crime in the community when they should have been in prison.
"Too efficient: you must be joking," was the response of a garda serving in a high-crime area of north-west Dublin. He claimed that far from prosecuting offenders -- a high proportion of whom were either on bail or temporary release from prison -- their crimes were being downgraded on official reports..........................................................................................................................................................................................
He said that burglaries were regularly recorded as criminal damage -- officially a "non-headline" or non-serious crime -- or trespass, which is not necessarily a crime at all. In most cases where there had not been serious injury or a major amount of cash stolen, cases were often not investigated at all, he said.

His view was that the gardai should be prosecuting "twice as many" if they were doing their job properly.

Another garda in an area of high crime in the south of the city, when asked what percentage of crime was committed by people who should be in prison but were on bail or temporary release, replied: "Most of them."

sasta le

So i take this guy is going to be using the inside information as a garda and use it in the Sunday World

Actually how did Paul Williams get on all these Garda operations for his stories?

Zambia

So any ideas come out of all this on how to fix this situation?

MagicSean

Zambia wrote: »

So any ideas come out of all this on how to fix this situation?

Plenty. The first thing would be to free Gardaí from jobs they shouldn't be doing. They are like an out of hours service for the council, HSE, dog warden, litter warden, parking warden among many others. Make them do their own jobs. Particularly the HSE and dog wardens. They are a disgrace.

senordingdong

Einhard wrote: »

I think a lot of people are reacting a tad hysterically to this article, and refusing to let the facts get in the way of said hysteria. People claim that AGS are underfunded and underresourced- but where's the evidence? Where are the figures to back this claim up?

In 2012, the justice budget is approx €2.3 billion, of which the Garda account for around €1.4 billion. Approximately 90% of the latter figures is expended on Garda pay and pensions. Perhaps if members of the service were willing to take a small pay cut, then more could be spent on cars and equipment? No? I thought not...

There are 14,411 Gardai in the country, based in over 700 stations, which works out as one Garda for every 318 people.

The Danish Rigspolitiet police, by comparison, has 9,415 officers, and a total of 13,655 employees. Even going by the second figure, which includes everything from cleaners to cooks, that's one member of the force for every 408 Danes. The last figures I could find for the Danish budget is 7.5 billion kroner, which amounts to a little over €1 billion, and covers the entire police force and the prosecution service. So, Denmark spends less on their criminal justice system than we do on our police service alone.

I had a look at the situation in other Western countries, and it appears that the pattern is borne out- that Ireland, in relative terms, has a well-funded, well-resourced police force. There are some countries with slightly more personnel per capita, and there are others with less. But there's nothing at all to suggest that AGS are dramtically under-resourced. And there's nothing really on which to base the the bald assertions that the justice system in this nation is crumbling, or is not fit for purpose. Go to the Daily Mail UK version, and the exact same type of thing will be heard, and I imagine it'd be the same on whatever Denmarks's or Portugal's verson of boards is. There are some shitty aspects of the justice system, and of course things could be improved, but I think on the whole, the doom-laden tenor of this thread is entirely unjustified. Especially when one looks at the situation in America, often cited by those who claim we Irish are soft in crime, and see wholesale redundancies in police forces, and huge slashes in spending on equipment.

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2011/12/minister-for-justice-equality-defence-estimates-speech-budget-2012/

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=55&Lang=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_S%C3%ADoch%C3%A1na

http://www.politi.dk/en/About_the_police/finance/

+1 on good point but one thing I have to say against your points is that Ireland, on a whole, is terribly mis-managed. This descends through all the departments and ranks, just like the HSE, Dept of Education and obviously, AGS too.
The Danes, or any other European police force for that matter, have likely done a better job of getting their **** together. A point I think to be more likely when you think about how infantile Ireland is as a nation by comparison.

I Love Limerick

Admin note: Poster has retracted defamatory statement.

Dionysius2

Maybe this particular exGuard is proof positive that the meeja never did get the hang of law enforcement !

audidiesel

I Love Limerick wrote: »

From what i've heard, this guard isn't exactly missed from limerick. He caused more trouble on the streets if someone looked sideways at him than he actually solved. Word got up the line and he was prevented from being allowed drive a patrol car, which might explain why he has such problems about the garda fleet and giving out about petrol cards etc which never concerned him as he never even drove one.

If you're going to go on the airwaves and write ranting reports about patrol cars, you should at least fess up to the fact that you've never even driven one.

ok on this i call bull****. i know the guy pretty well. he will be very missed as evidenced by the fact that the turnout for his going away do was huge. i think your missing the entire point of the article and trying to derail it totally.

if serving guards were allowed to go on the airwaves you would hear dozens and dozens of reports just like his. the only difference is he is freed from the shackles that we are held by regarding the media.

fair play to the man!

steddyeddy

MagicSean wrote: »

Plenty. The first thing would be to free Gardaí from jobs they shouldn't be doing. They are like an out of hours service for the council, HSE, dog warden, litter warden, parking warden among many others. Make them do their own jobs. Particularly the HSE and dog wardens. They are a disgrace.

I agree with the above. Especially the dog warden bit.

Jay D

That was a crap read I have to say.

Wonder which school he went to, or didn't.

Thankfully one less idiot out of the force

Pappa Charlie

Jay D wrote: »

That was a crap read I have to say.

Wonder which school he went to, or didn't.

Thankfully one less idiot out of the force

Try reading it again or were there not enough pictures for you to understand it!

Jay D

Sorry I said read, did you miss that bit?

It was a crap read. Am I entitled to an opinion?

No I won't read it again.

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Jay D wrote: »

That was a crap read I have to say.

Wonder which school he went to, or didn't.

Thankfully one less idiot out of the force

Try reading it again or were there not enough pictures for you to understand it!

liammur

The Irish government have ruined Limerick. And they did it deliberately.

people seem to be missing the point in this article. to be fair, its not a brilliantly written article and he does come across as a whining moan. in fact i dont think i would want to talk to him at all!

BUT, everything he wrote was true. yes, he joined a tough job, yes he should have known that, yes gardai should expect a tough time and not expect a lot of thanks.
but the point is that the cutbacks have affected policing. its not just gardai moaning, it affects the whole country. its all well and good saying lads should patrol on the beat but in rural areas, this is not possible. my mam was broken into, nearest station with anyone working was 18 miles away, it took 3 hours for anyone to call. thats not the fault of the gardai, its because the resources are not there. what about the woman in donegal, who had to go to the station in her own car to pick up gardai to bring him to her home after she was burgled because he didnt have any transport?

cutbacks in the health service, education etc affect everyone. the same is true in the gardai. just because you may be anti-garda doesnt mean that you wont need their service some day.

Toxic7

He was interviewed on Limerick 95fm.The man is right on everything he says

You can find the interview here

http://www.live95fm.ie/music/podcasts-list.aspx?show_guid=dcd1e092-c888-4aa8-849c-9a0abbb5c296

Grayson

bubblypop wrote: »

people seem to be missing the point in this article. to be fair, its not a brilliantly written article and he does come across as a whining moan. in fact i dont think i would want to talk to him at all!

BUT, everything he wrote was true. yes, he joined a tough job, yes he should have known that, yes gardai should expect a tough time and not expect a lot of thanks.
but the point is that the cutbacks have affected policing. its not just gardai moaning, it affects the whole country. its all well and good saying lads should patrol on the beat but in rural areas, this is not possible. my mam was broken into, nearest station with anyone working was 18 miles away, it took 3 hours for anyone to call. thats not the fault of the gardai, its because the resources are not there. what about the woman in donegal, who had to go to the station in her own car to pick up gardai to bring him to her home after she was burgled because he didnt have any transport?

cutbacks in the health service, education etc affect everyone. the same is true in the gardai. just because you may be anti-garda doesnt mean that you wont need their service some day.

You're right. I've found garda to be irritants recently, but they are very necessary. And I have more sympathy for this guy who left because the job just wore him down than the guy who left because he got punched.

Insurance Works

If thats true, apart from it being worrying, it is extremely disappointing to here something like that.

Moneen 1

studdlymurphy wrote: »

With 5 years in the public service are you entitled to full pension? I was told this a while back bay a guy in the prison service but not sure how true this is.

Who makes up this rubbish.

Boombastic

The cutbacks didn't stop them sending 23 Squad cars to make sure nobody cut turf

Moneen 1

Boombastic wrote: »

The cutbacks didn't stop them sending 23 Squad cars to make sure nobody cut turf

I think a visit to specsavers is necessary in this case. I doubt if there is 23 squad cars left in the west of Ireland

Boombastic

Moneen 1 wrote: »

I think a visit to specsavers is necessary in this case. I doubt if there is 23 squad cars left in the west of Ireland

Am I bad, it was 24 Garda vehicles

A large garda presence was also on hand with over 24 garda vehicles and up to 60 officers were at the scene at its height.