Sunday world article by now ex garda

starviewadams

starviewadams wrote: »

What would a member of the public say to their TD though?I've raised issues with the level of policing in my locality many times and have just been fobbed off by all four of them at various stages.

I know from a family friend the miniscule number of Gardai actually on the street in my area and it's shocking,but TD's didnt seem too concerned.Usual party lines adhered to-Violent crime,anti social behavior figures are down etc.

write to them so they have to put their response on paper to you. Then hit them with their own words as the **** gets worse.

senordingdong

999nobody wrote: »

The force serves the public therefore it is up to the public to look after their force in it's time of need.
The Gardai shouldn't have to resort to 'blue flu', the public should step up and demand the goverment give AGS the resources needed to ensure PUBLIC safety.

I demand better from my government everyday and I support and sympathise with AGS.
If there is ANY Garda here that wants me to do something more than what I am doing, then please, tell me what I should do. I would be more than happy to help.

catastrophy

senordingdong wrote: »

I demand better from my government everyday and I support and sympathise with AGS.
If there is ANY Garda here that wants me to do something more than what I am doing, then please, tell me what I should do. I would be more than happy to help.

Gardai cant canvas people either!

Potential-Monke

I think looking at the recent)ish) burglary on Shatters (i think) house was a prime example of why those with the ability to do anything don't. His house gets broken into and every resource is thrown at it. Immediate investigation and Gardai at the door. I hope next time it happens to a TD or similar they will be forced to wait in queue with Joe Public for up to 2 hours or more, and get the same service, that is it'll be investigated when there's time.

But that won't happen, the local AC/Chief/Super won't let it happen, and this clouds the view politicians have of the service AGS and other frontline services can give. THat AC/Chief/Super wants to be promoted or wants to be in a certain persons pocket when they retire and they're not going to risk it.

We need someone to stand up and actually fight for us, and i know a few who would but they would be shut up very quickly. So it is down to the public. We need ye. We need ye to constantly hassle the local politicians with requests. We need something done, and ye can do it. For i fear that while we need ye now, very soon we won't be able to come to you when you need us. Not out of choice, but out of lack of options.

calibelle

Not sure if this is the right place but it seems appropriate given the posts above, just a quick question if somebody wouldn't mind answering!

I've noticed in my own town that where previously there was usually two guards to each patrol car (of which there seemed to be a fair few) nowadays there seems to be maybe 2 cars with 2 and a couple more with only one.
Would this be down to the cutbacks? And if so what happens if they get called to/come across a dangerous situation?
Surely they aren't expected to go in alone, but at the same time it's crazy if the public need to wait for a second Garda to arrive....this thread has made me seriously concerned about all the cutbacks!!

kub

calibelle wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right place but it seems appropriate given the posts above, just a quick question if somebody wouldn't mind answering!

I've noticed in my own town that where previously there was usually two guards to each patrol car (of which there seemed to be a fair few) nowadays there seems to be maybe 2 cars with 2 and a couple more with only one.
Would this be down to the cutbacks? And if so what happens if they get called to/come across a dangerous situation?
Surely they aren't expected to go in alone, but at the same time it's crazy if the public need to wait for a second Garda to arrive....this thread has made me seriously concerned about all the cutbacks!!

You are correct, it is a result of cutbacks. They are lucky that they still have a few patrol cars on the go. Have you noticed are there any Traffic cars being used?

calibelle

kub wrote: »

You are correct, it is a result of cutbacks. They are lucky that they still have a few patrol cars on the go. Have you noticed are there any Traffic cars being used?

Now you mention it I've only seen a traffic car a couple of times recently whereas a while ago they'd be everywhere. Maybe because it's a big area they have a few cars. Scary scary thought that someone would have to wait for help because of cutbacks!!

POGAN

calibelle wrote: »

Now you mention it I've only seen a traffic car a couple of times recently whereas a while ago they'd be everywhere. Maybe because it's a big area they have a few cars. Scary scary thought that someone would have to wait for help because of cutbacks!!

very lucky to have few traffic cars, i know traffic unit lost 3 cars, now there is 1 marked from another division and share another car.

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think looking at the recent)ish) burglary on Shatters (i think) house was a prime example of why those with the ability to do anything don't. His house gets broken into and every resource is thrown at it. Immediate investigation and Gardai at the door. I hope next time it happens to a TD or similar they will be forced to wait in queue with Joe Public for up to 2 hours or more, and get the same service, that is it'll be investigated when there's time.

But that won't happen, the local AC/Chief/Super won't let it happen, and this clouds the view politicians have of the service AGS and other frontline services can give. THat AC/Chief/Super wants to be promoted or wants to be in a certain persons pocket when they retire and they're not going to risk it.

We need someone to stand up and actually fight for us, and i know a few who would but they would be shut up very quickly. So it is down to the public. We need ye. We need ye to constantly hassle the local politicians with requests. We need something done, and ye can do it. For i fear that while we need ye now, very soon we won't be able to come to you when you need us. Not out of choice, but out of lack of options.

Don't forget that poor gouger has been sent forward to the circuit court. When is the last time you saw a person who broke into an empty house get sent there?

Iwannahurl

POGAN wrote: »

very lucky to have few traffic cars, i know traffic unit lost 3 cars, now there is 1 marked from another division and share another car.

One Garda crew for the Henry Street district, as stated in the SW article, seems totally inadequate.

However, my impression is that squad cars in other areas are not under similar pressure. Perhaps it's not so easy to allocate such resources across divisions, though, so a vehicle in one area may get relatively little use whereas in other areas resources are seriously stretched...

goldie fish

Iwannahurl wrote: »

One Garda crew for the Henry Street district, as stated in the SW article, seems totally inadequate.

However, my impression is that squad cars in other areas are not under similar pressure. Perhaps it's not so easy to allocate such resources across divisions, though, so a vehicle in one area may get relatively little use whereas in other areas resources are seriously stretched...

Limerick is severely stretched.
Outside the city district HQs, the county district HQs are lucky to have 2 cars, the ordinary stations have none as a result.

Iwannahurl

Perhaps the 2011-reg squad car in the Lahinch area of Co. Clare could be reallocated to Limerick. Last time I saw that resource, it didn't seem to be under pressure.

POGAN

Iwannahurl wrote: »

One Garda crew for the Henry Street district, as stated in the SW article, seems totally inadequate.

However, my impression is that squad cars in other areas are not under similar pressure. Perhaps it's not so easy to allocate such resources across divisions, though, so a vehicle in one area may get relatively little use whereas in other areas resources are seriously stretched...

From article he states "I turned up for duty on days when there was only one car crew available to cover Henry Street District"

He means one are for two person crew to head out in, lack of vehicle there is high. like everywhere the another day i was in district that there was single crew garda in district car and 1 in traffic car another out in the gatso, its so dangerous.

Ennis need that car or they would not of got the car

Pappa Charlie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Perhaps the 2011-reg squad car in the Lahinch area of Co. Clare could be reallocated to Limerick. Last time I saw that resource, it didn't seem to be under pressure.

So unless a car is going around with blues and two's on it should be relocated to limerick or elsewhere. Rural areas also need to be policed but if you live in the big smoke i guess you have more rights to a service than rural people! Both areas should have adquate resources. Its the likes of you who push pens in Dublin and make silly decisions from their desks that people on the ground have to live with.

0325422

POGAN wrote: »

Iwannahurl wrote: »

One Garda crew for the Henry Street district, as stated in the SW article, seems totally inadequate.

However, my impression is that squad cars in other areas are not under similar pressure. Perhaps it's not so easy to allocate such resources across divisions, though, so a vehicle in one area may get relatively little use whereas in other areas resources are seriously stretched...

From article he states "I turned up for duty on days when there was only one car crew available to cover Henry Street District"

He means one are for two person crew to head out in, lack of vehicle there is high. like everywhere the another day i was in district that there was single crew garda in district car and 1 in traffic car another out in the gatso, its so dangerous.

Ennis need that car or they would not of got the car

1 in the car is a regular occurrence with us since the new roster came in., it's madness.. All well and good until something goes very wrong.. I know a fella who pepper sprayed a violent prisoner and had 2 wait 40 minutes for night unit to come on at 9pm for assistance as he was on his own..

Potential-Monke

0325422 wrote: »

1 in the car is a regular occurrence with us since the new roster came in., it's madness.. All well and good until something goes very wrong..

And unfortunately, it's inevitable. And nothing will be done until something like this happens. But shur, we're frontline, who cares...

Iwannahurl

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

So unless a car is going around with blues and two's on it should be relocated to limerick or elsewhere. Rural areas also need to be policed but if you live in the big smoke i guess you have more rights to a service than rural people! Both areas should have adquate resources. Its the likes of you who push pens in Dublin and make silly decisions from their desks that people on the ground have to live with.

Crossed wires here somewhere. I don't push pens, and I don't live in Dublin.

As for having "rights to a service", do such services include spending the best part of an hour trying to jump start someone's car?

That was what the 2011-reg squad car was doing in Lahinch when I spotted it a few weeks ago. The point being that such a "service" would (presumably) not be available in Limerick city centre, because of the greater law-enforcement (as opposed to 'roadside rescue') demands on resources.

Garda patrol cars, and their crews, are not easily divisible. Lahinch and environs still needs a squad car for routine policing, but clearly the service pressures in rural areas are less than in certain urban areas such as Limerick. From the average citizen's perspective, then, it looks as if places like Lahinch have it a bit easy, whereas places like Limerick are overstretched.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Crossed wires here somewhere. I don't push pens, and I don't live in Dublin.

As for having "rights to a service", do such services include spending the best part of an hour trying to jump start someone's car?

That was what the 2011-reg squad car was doing in Lahinch when I spotted it a few weeks ago. The point being that such a "service" would (presumably) not be available in Limerick city centre, because of the greater law-enforcement (as opposed to 'roadside rescue') demands on resources.

Garda patrol cars, and their crews, are not easily divisible. Lahinch and environs still needs a squad car for routine policing, but clearly the service pressures in rural areas are less than in certain urban areas such as Limerick. From the average citizen's perspective, then, it looks as if places like Lahinch have it a bit easy, whereas places like Limerick are overstretched.

You should forward this story to Alan Shatter. He's looking for stations to close down. Problem solved.

Iwannahurl

foreign wrote: »

You should forward this story to Alan Shatter. He's looking for stations to close down. Problem solved.

I'd say he's well informed on the issues already, and no doubt he reads the papers as well.

tayto lover

My own town of Dundalk used to have a lot of Garda probably due to the border. Lately i have seen a big decrease in numbers and rarely see a Garda on the beat. I think it is a disgrace that all the services are being run down in order that the money saved can be handed over to bondholders who should not have been paid anything at all. The local hospital is now reduced to 18 beds as well and totally run down. Where will all this stop ?

Potential-Monke

I think i've gotten to the stage where i just don't care anymore. Close the stations, cut the numbers, keep a ban on recruitment and cut our wages even more. But, don't expect us to be all understanding when everything falls to sh!t. I'm still going to do my job, but for reasons outlined above i'm certainly not going to do it with a smile and i'm not going to go out of my way to "go the extra mile". I can see it already in colleagues, you'll (eventually) get the response and the basics, but no more.

The frontline is getting to a stage when you'll get a basic service, and probably little follow-up for the majority of crime. The headline crimes will still get full investigations, TD's lost cats will have the full co-operation and resources they always get, firemen will put out the fires and paramedics will do all that they can, but no-more than what is needed. The everyday man, woman and child will suffer. And it sickens me. To truely understand it, you need to work it, or be close to someone that does (but even that isn't enough).

I know I, along with many, many others, would happily jump ship should a job that pays the same (any less and i'd lose my house) arrive. I don't care about security, and lets face it it's not as secure as it once was. I don't care about a good pension. It's getting harder and harder to go into work every day and give your best when nearly everything is against you.

Iwannahurl

Potential-Monke wrote: »

... TD's lost cats will have the full co-operation and resources they always get...

Can you elaborate a little?

goldie fish

tayto lover wrote: »

My own town of Dundalk used to have a lot of Garda probably due to the border. Lately i have seen a big decrease in numbers and rarely see a Garda on the beat. I think it is a disgrace that all the services are being run down in order that the money saved can be handed over to bondholders who should not have been paid anything at all. The local hospital is now reduced to 18 beds as well and totally run down. Where will all this stop ?

There used to be over 100 gardai based in Hackballs Cross. Its barely a bungalow. It didn't need to be bigger, because all the Gardai there were out on a checkpoint somewhere all the time. The withdrawal has seen a huge increase in smuggling and dissident activity.

They haven't gone away you know.

tayto lover

goldie fish wrote: »

There used to be over 100 gardai based in Hackballs Cross. Its barely a bungalow. It didn't need to be bigger, because all the Gardai there were out on a checkpoint somewhere all the time. The withdrawal has seen a huge increase in smuggling and dissident activity.

They haven't gone away you know.

Not to mention diesel laundering and the dumping of the residue which costs millions to have sent for treatment to Germany.

Potential-Monke

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Can you elaborate a little?

Ah i was being slightly sarcastic, but i will use the example of the burglary at Sh!tters house recently enough. The service he got was unheard of. I've never heard of a burglary recipient getting a 24 hour Garda post at their house after a burglary, and all available resources were thrown at it. It would be fantastic if we could do that for everyone, but we can't, and i believe it was a complete waste of resources to give to him just because he's the minister of fupping things up.

Pappa Charlie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Crossed wires here somewhere. I don't push pens, and I don't live in Dublin.

As for having "rights to a service", do such services include spending the best part of an hour trying to jump start someone's car?

That was what the 2011-reg squad car was doing in Lahinch when I spotted it a few weeks ago. The point being that such a "service" would (presumably) not be available in Limerick city centre, because of the greater law-enforcement (as opposed to 'roadside rescue') demands on resources.

Garda patrol cars, and their crews, are not easily divisible. Lahinch and environs still needs a squad car for routine policing, but clearly the service pressures in rural areas are less than in certain urban areas such as Limerick. From the average citizen's perspective, then, it looks as if places like Lahinch have it a bit easy, whereas places like Limerick are overstretched.

There are no crossed wires anywhere, you are consistant in your critisim and are talking out of both sides of your mouth, its clear that you have no idea of community policing and the fact that you can't see the benefit in what the Garda was doing when he was assisting another road user in getting their car started. Maybe the car was a hazard where it was, maybe the person was trying to make a hospital appointment, maybe it was a member of the community he serves who assisted him before. I'd say well done to them and if a sad begrudger passes when hes doing a good deed and it upsets them well even better!

Iwannahurl

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

So unless a car is going around with blues and two's on it should be relocated to limerick or elsewhere. Rural areas also need to be policed but if you live in the big smoke i guess you have more rights to a service than rural people! Both areas should have adquate resources. Its the likes of you who push pens in Dublin and make silly decisions from their desks that people on the ground have to live with.

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

1. There are no crossed wires anywhere, you are consistant in your critisim and are talking out of both sides of your mouth,

2. its clear that you have no idea of community policing and the fact that you can't see the benefit in what the Garda was doing when he was assisting another road user in getting their car started.

3. Maybe the car was a hazard where it was,

4. maybe the person was trying to make a hospital appointment,

5. maybe it was a member of the community he serves who assisted him before.

6. I'd say well done to them and if a sad begrudger passes when hes doing a good deed and it upsets them well even better!

1. If not crossed wires then perhaps speculation (at the very least) on your part. I'm not a pen pusher, and I'm not from Dublin. Incidentally, can you be both "consistant in your critisim" and "talking out of both sides of your mouth"? I would have thought the former was consistent and the latter inconsistent.

2. As an ordinary citizen I have a reasonably good idea of community policing, having worked alongside Garda officers in a community context in the past. I'm aware of the exemplary work done by Gardai -- often unnoticed, unreported and unrewarded -- in the area of youth development and diversion services, for example. Unfortunately, as a suburban resident and local community activist I'm a bit disconnected from local community policing, not for lack of trying but because no such service is evident in my neighbourhood (and they don't answer my correspondence). Additionally the local Garda station is about to be scaled back, which will probably make whatever community policing does exist even less visible.

3. No.

4. No. The driver was apparently on holiday with his girlfriend/partner/wife, and there was no evident urgency.

5. Perhaps. Or perhaps not.

6. As a taxpayer who contributes to the salaries of public servants, I'd like to see Gardai focus on the job they're paid to do. I'm open to correction, but I would expect that the provision of roadside assistance for motorists is not part of the resource allocation policies recommended by the Garda Inspectorate. Such services are already available to the general public, eg AA Ireland and Mapfre. Motorists should make appropriate provision if they want such assistance in case of breakdown situations. Taxpayers are not paying the Garda Siochana to provide car breakdown services to some people for free, courtesy of the public purse.

Pappa Charlie

I note you went to alot of trouble to get photo's from both sides and waited around for the recovery truck to arrive, Your time might have been better spent offering to help the people involved. I can safely say that if your soon to be downgraded local station no longer replys to your correspondance you have been offically deemed a Tit!

Iwannahurl

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I note you went to alot of trouble to get photo's from both sides and waited around for the recovery truck to arrive,

If you're a Garda, I worry about your powers of observation in a law enforcement (or administration) role.

1. Both photos were taken from the same spot. The Garda in charge of the squad car turned it around to get closer to the other vehicle. Or could the double yellow lines, parked cars and terrace of houses (to say nothing of the sea and the sun) have magically changed position?

2. There was no waiting involved in taking the two photos: they are only two minutes apart.

3. The recovery truck didn't arrive. It just happened to be passing, and it also just happens to illustrate neatly the existence of roadside recovery services that don't involve tying up scarce resources for non-policing work in times of severe cutbacks, and using up Garda time that would be better spent on policing and security services for the State, not car servicing for private individuals.

As for a local Garda station that "no longer replys to correspondance" perhaps it's one of those stations that doesn't have a networked PC with email, printing and electronic file storage facilities, even if there was someone there who could type...




.

audidiesel

so your giving out that the gardai helped a motorist in trouble? :rolleyes:

i dont see any particular difficulty with members spending 5 minutes out of a ten hour shift to help someone in trouble. in this day and age not everyone can afford roadside assistance.

there was a time when most motorists would stop to help each other out if in bother like this. sadly the times they are a changing.

with the reduction in cars* and numbers though - you may rejoice. soon there wont be any patrol cars around to help out people like this. that should possibly give you a nice warm feeling inside.

*by the car colour (silver) - id say that avensis was until recently a traffic car from somewhere else that has been drafted onto the regular

POGAN

audidiesel wrote: »

*by the car colour (silver) - id say that avensis was until recently a traffic car from somewhere else that has been drafted onto the regular

this is one of the cars came out clara in jan/feb this year they where meant for traffic last minute they were changed to regular as they needed them more. like it in silver but i like batterburgs on it.

another point watch any police shows traffic cops or motorway cops they will help people in trouble have no problem with it

Iwannahurl

audidiesel wrote: »

1. i dont see any particular difficulty with members spending 5 minutes out of a ten hour shift to help someone in trouble. in this day and age not everyone can afford roadside assistance.

2. there was a time when most motorists would stop to help each other out if in bother like this. sadly the times they are a changing.

3. with the reduction in cars* and numbers though - you may rejoice. soon there wont be any patrol cars around to help out people like this. that should possibly give you a nice warm feeling inside.

1. Five minutes? How would you know how long that 2011-reg squad car was there providing taxpayer-subsidised roadside assistance to a private individual? I was there and I can vouch for the fact that it was a substantially longer time. Being helpful is all well and good, but it's hard to reconcile that with the attitudes expressed earlier in this thread such as that some Gardai just don't care anymore, and are willing to provide only the barest minimum response to the general public in terms of routine policing matters.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think i've gotten to the stage where i just don't care anymore. ...

The frontline is getting to a stage when you'll get a basic service, and probably little follow-up for the majority of crime.

Likewise, for the average citizen it's diifficult to reconcile the reported running down of resources in some areas (eg non-replacement of clapped-out patrol cars) with the lack of pressure in other areas, whereby a patrol car can apparently be made available for private roadside assistance on a Saturday evening in August. To my mind, this incident tallies with the Garda Inspectorate's findings, ie resources are still not being allocated in a rational and timely manner. That's the real issue of concern. Unofficial non-policing services can still be provided ad hoc in some areas apparently, whereas elsewhere it's a Sunday World wet dream of social breakdown and policing in crisis.

2. Coincidentally, my own car broke down the following week in the same locality. Did I call the Garda Siochana to help? No, I arranged for my car to be fixed by a mechanic, and paid over €200 for that service. The times are not a-changing in that regard: that's what mechanics and auto repair services are for.

3. Will I notice a difference one way or another? Or should I take a leaf out of the new AGS book and just stop caring anymore?


.

audidiesel

@Iwannahurl

i made the assumption about 5 minutes as shouldnt really take much longer than that to jump a car.

most guards don't care about the job anywhere near as much these days. but there is such a thing as basic human decency. it is dying out ill admit but there are still some vestiges of it around. your looking at an example.

honest to god, of all the things you could be getting worked up about. gardai spending a short period of time to help a member of the public in trouble.

i wouldnt care if it was gardai, postoffice workers, pat the baker. they were in a position to help someone. it cost them or you nothing. if there was a call that came in, they would have left to it immediately. so whats your real issue here?

i work in limerick city. there is a horrendous shortage of cars. but id be an advocate of buying a more cars rather than leave large areas of the country car-less.

rural policing is different to urban policing. lahinch may not have the demands of bigger places. but thats not to say that they dont deal with other types of issues and dont need a patrol car.

i can see however than theres not really much point trying to argue reason here with you on this.

i suppose your going to start complaining soon that a guard had the audacity to say good morning to someone next. how dare they! thats showing distinct traits of civil behaviour. the garda inspectorate will not be pleased about that. it is a waste of garda time and resources to be nice to people. after all i heard them complaining about resources etc. how can the morning possibly be good.

.....give me a break

tony81

Sorry he's not happy in his job and that his wages were slashed.. but he was still earning at least twice as much for other unfortunate souls who would be only too happy to work as a garda. Few people like their jobs but they get on with them...

I wouldn't be surprised if this chap had a few other issues which contributed to his unhappiness and I can't see him any better off in any other job. And I would not be surprised if he squirrelled away a lot of his garda salary to set himself up with a nice house before quitting the force.

audidiesel

after tax, the usc and pension levy, im earning roughly 23,000-24000 euro a year. (worked this out from actual payslips net pay including these deductions above) i dont really think thats double what most employed people make. i was earning a lot more in the private sector before i joined the guards. according to government figures i earn 42,608. i actually earn roughly half that.

under 24,000 a year does not seem like an excessive wage to me to be honest. especially when you factor in the things we have to deal with.suicides,murders,sudden deaths, fatal accidents, sexual assaults, bad domestics, stabbings, junkies, paedophiles, arson, riots and so on. most of these arent experienced in your normal 9-5's and ive had multiple cases of each and every one of them in the last five years.


http://www.flixya.com/files-photo/s/o/c/socialnetworkcash-1893404.jpg

http://jadedisle.ie/files/2010/05/Dublin_Riots_25-02-06.jpg

http://www.herald.ie/multimedia/dynamic/00238/2711_garda_gr_238882t.jpg

http://d284656.u38.hosting.digiweb.ie/img/2012/08/05/columnists/sw-irish-crime/injured-garda.jpg

this last one sums up the job pretty well i think
http://www.alobbs.com/albums/albun26/p1060894_001.jpg

@tony81, not being a smartarse, but are you suggesting that the gardai should be paid the same for working as someone unemployed on the dole?

you may not be aware of it but for the first year and a half of their service gardai trainee wages were for €192.71 per week. for the hours done, this was under the national minimum wage. but gardai are exempted from that legislation.

irelands the only country in the eu that hasnt been training new recruits for the past few years. even if the minister decided tomorrow that he wanted to re-open templemore, he couldnt. all the staff are long gone from there. the recruitment process would have to be restarted. the process of selection takes about a year to complete. thats before you walk into templemore. then another year and a half of training before you get released on probation. other gardai would have to be taken from stations with already low manpower and transferred to templemore in teaching positions. there arent excessive numbers of guards in the vast majority of stations. so this would have a huge impact. so if the minister said start it up tomorrow. it would be at least two and a half years before a single probationary guard would walk out of the college.

in addition to this there was the massive induced retirement from the most experienced members. there will be 580 cars removed from the fleet since 2008 at the end of this year. they are gone either due to crashes or being unsafe or excessively high milage. i dont have the exact figure but only around half these have been replaced. gardai moral is high is it? this minister for justice is the most deluded anti-garda minister in recent history.

the damage to the gardai may not be apparent to everyone yet. but i guarantee you this much, in years to come you may look back at what has been done and see the damage that will have been caused. you dont have to be pro garda to realise that a police force is necessary. a motivated force is a more effective force. a disenchanted, bitter force less so.

under this minister more and more rural communities are going to loose their stations. less cars will be available for the bigger stations to send out to patrol these areas. local knowledge of places and people there will vanish. crime will rise as criminals realise that crimes are no longer properly investigated due to lack of resources. the garda ideal of a police force of the community is being eroded and will ultimately die. this needs to be thought about. do people want this police model anymore?

im not scaremongering, but policing in this country is reaching its lowest ebb. if any of ye think the guards are overpaid and too well equipped, your delusional! i am well aware of the recession. but policing is a service that is dangerous to cut. its been badly cut already.

niall o conner said it truthfully in his article and i applaud him for that. i have no great love for the sunday world, but the article was bang on the money.

im done with this thread now as i feel i have said everything i wanted to say and im sure the trolls will want to take issue with my comments. but ill leave the thread with this final thought....

you get the police force you pay for. prepare for that.

mcko

I go to Clare every year for my holidays and if I thought that the local squad car would not help me with my car for 5 mins I would be very disappointed, if they got a call and had to leave then that would be fine,imagine you are a tourist and your car will not start, you know no one you maynot have breakdown assist ect, now the local police car comes along, you ask the police could they help, they do, what is the problem.
We are lucky in this country to have a friendly approachable force, I would think twice about asking the Spainish or French police for help.
I hate people taking pics and vids of the Gardai when they are working doing a job I would not like to do,especially for the money they earn,can you imagine living in Dublin on their money, I wouldn't .
Remember they hold a line dealing with people I would cross the street to avoid day in day out.
All I can say to the men and women who police our streets is thank you.

Pappa Charlie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

1. Five minutes? How would you know how long that 2011-reg squad car was there providing taxpayer-subsidised roadside assistance to a private individual? I was there and I can vouch for the fact that it was a substantially longer time. Being helpful is all well and good, but it's hard to reconcile that with the attitudes expressed earlier in this thread such as that some Gardai just don't care anymore, and are willing to provide only the barest minimum response to the general public in terms of routine policing matters.





Likewise, for the average citizen it's diifficult to reconcile the reported running down of resources in some areas (eg non-replacement of clapped-out patrol cars) with the lack of pressure in other areas, whereby a patrol car can apparently be made available for private roadside assistance on a Saturday evening in August. To my mind, this incident tallies with the Garda Inspectorate's findings, ie resources are still not being allocated in a rational and timely manner. That's the real issue of concern. Unofficial non-policing services can still be provided ad hoc in some areas apparently, whereas elsewhere it's a Sunday World wet dream of social breakdown and policing in crisis.

2. Coincidentally, my own car broke down the following week in the same locality. Did I call the Garda Siochana to help? No, I arranged for my car to be fixed by a mechanic, and paid over €200 for that service. The times are not a-changing in that regard: that's what mechanics and auto repair services are for.

3. Will I notice a difference one way or another? Or should I take a leaf out of the new AGS book and just stop caring anymore?


.

Thanks for confirming that you were their for some time watching what was happening and photographing, Community policing comes in many forms and their isnt a particular text book for it, if you want a rough guide then helping the public where possible is part of it, its also called decency which you might find hard to grasp. Keep taking the photo's and when your correspondance isnt replied too dont throw all you toys out of your pram (or your camera either!!

Iwannahurl

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Thanks for confirming that you were their for some time watching what was happening and photographing, Community policing comes in many forms and their isnt a particular text book for it, if you want a rough guide then helping the public where possible is part of it, its also called decency which you might find hard to grasp. Keep taking the photo's and when your correspondance isnt replied too dont throw all you toys out of your pram (or your camera either!!

So far so Boards/ES forum: attack the poster rather than engage with the substantive issues raised.

I was actually staying just around the corner and was coming and going to the local shop, moving around with the kids, meeting relatives etc. The publicly-funded and allegedly scarce Garda resource was there for well over 30 minutes.

• Are Garda resources becoming increasingly scarce or are they not?
• Do Garda officers care any more about the publicly-funded law enforcement service they are honour-bound to provide or do they not?
• Do Garda officers get to pick and choose what services they provide: eg free AA/Mapfre-type car breakdown services for select individuals, or policing services for the general public?

As for throwing toys out of prams, where do these attitudes fit in?

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think i've gotten to the stage where i just don't care anymore. ...

The frontline is getting to a stage when you'll get a basic service, and probably little follow-up for the majority of crime.

Michael O'Boyce wrote:

We are angry at being lectured by government on the need to be patriotic. A patriot is ‘a person who vigorously supports his country and its way of life.’ This government is misusing what it means to be Irish as they support a new aristocracy created in their image. This new aristocracy chooses whether to retain state pensions while still working as public representatives, using all means to spend vast resources on the few, while taking pay from the majority. This government have created a new class system; one that does not value our service and dedication.

...

We are angry, we have been betrayed and we are disillusioned. But I do not believe it is yet understood just how angry we are. And that anger will find an outlet, the anger that we feel will find its target.

Garda: There's been terrible cuts around here. Go write to Alan Shatter.
Cyclist: And that's it? Despite the fact that me and my daughter have come within inches of being killed by careless motorists three times in the last week?
Garda: Yes, that's it. Go write to Alan Shatter.

Iwannahurl

audidiesel wrote: »

there will be 580 cars removed from the fleet since 2008 at the end of this year. they are gone either due to crashes or being unsafe or excessively high milage. i dont have the exact figure but only around half these have been replaced.

...

under this minister more and more rural communities are going to loose their stations. less cars will be available for the bigger stations to send out to patrol these areas.

...

crime will rise as criminals realise that crimes are no longer properly investigated due to lack of resources.

...

this needs to be thought about. do people want this police model anymore?

...

you get the police force you pay for. prepare for that.

mcko wrote: »

I go to Clare every year for my holidays and if I thought that the local squad car would not help me with my car for 35 mins I would be very disappointed, if they got a call and had to leave then that would be fine,imagine you are a tourist and your car will not start, you know no one you maynot have breakdown assist ect, now the local police car comes along, you ask the police could they help, they do, what is the problem.

We are lucky in this country to have a friendly approachable force, I would think twice about asking the Spainish or French police for help to fix my car.

Fixed your post a little there.

Exactly, if your car broke down in Spain or France you'd look for a mecánico or mécanicien to fix it, not a member of the Guardia Civil or Gendarmerie. Logical really, though apparently not so in Ireland. You might ask those officers for general assistance or relevant information, but would you expect them to pull out the jump leads and spend a minimum 30 minutes of their time trying to fix your car?

So is it only in Ireland that (some?) police officers "don't care any more" about providing a policing service because of resource cutbacks, but where the police and certain members of the public are still keen to see scarce resources used to provide ad hoc non-policing services such as free taxpayer-funded breakdown assist? And is that just grand, like?

And in what way is this Garda response "friendly and approachable"?

Garda: There's been terrible cuts around here. Go write to Alan Shatter.
Cyclist: And that's it? Despite the fact that me and my daughter have come within inches of being killed by careless motorists three times in the last week?
Garda: Yes, that's it. Go write to Alan Shatter.

deadwood

tony81 wrote: »

And I would not be surprised if he squirrelled away a lot of his garda salary to set himself up with a nice house before quitting the force.

Gardaí in house-buying shocker!
Gardaí retire at some stage - even shockier!

I'm actually saving for a tow wagon. I plan to prowl the streets of the west coast seeking out ne'er do well rogue Gardaí who seem to have nothing better to do than start cars for stranded motorists in happy oblivion to the fact that someone else with even more free time on their hands watches on...and on..

Between buying up every house ever built and sorting out evil jump-starters, I'll have this country back on its feet in no time.

0325422

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Thanks for confirming that you were their for some time watching what was happening and photographing, Community policing comes in many forms and their isnt a particular text book for it, if you want a rough guide then helping the public where possible is part of it, its also called decency which you might find hard to grasp. Keep taking the photo's and when your correspondance isnt replied too dont throw all you toys out of your pram (or your camera either!!

So far so Boards/ES forum: attack the poster rather than engage with the substantive issues raised.

I was actually staying just around the corner and was coming and going to the local shop, moving around with the kids, meeting relatives etc. The publicly-funded and allegedly scarce Garda resource was there for well over 30 minutes.

• Are Garda resources becoming increasingly scarce or are they not?
• Do Garda officers care any more about the publicly-funded law enforcement service they are honour-bound to provide or do they not?
• Do Garda officers get to pick and choose what services they provide: eg free AA/Mapfre-type car breakdown services for select individuals, or policing services for the general public?

As for throwing toys out of prams, where do these attitudes fit in?

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think i've gotten to the stage where i just don't care anymore. ...

The frontline is getting to a stage when you'll get a basic service, and probably little follow-up for the majority of crime.

Michael O&#39 wrote: »

We are angry at being lectured by government on the need to be patriotic. A patriot is ‘a person who vigorously supports his country and its way of life.’ This government is misusing what it means to be Irish as they support a new aristocracy created in their image. This new aristocracy chooses whether to retain state pensions while still working as public representatives, using all means to spend vast resources on the few, while taking pay from the majority. This government have created a new class system; one that does not value our service and dedication.

...

We are angry, we have been betrayed and we are disillusioned. But I do not believe it is yet understood just how angry we are. And that anger will find an outlet, the anger that we feel will find its target.

Garda: There's been terrible cuts around here. Go write to Alan Shatter.
Cyclist: And that's it? Despite the fact that me and my daughter have come within inches of being killed by careless motorists three times in the last week?
Garda: Yes, that's it. Go write to Alan Shatter.

Gardai don't control when they get calls or what type of calls they receive.. Phone rings, someone looks for help and the call is dealt with no Matter what.. Now if garda members have a spare half hour to help a member of the public, what the f**k is wrong with that.. An hour later that 1 car could have 2 or 10 calls ranging from a fatal rta, suicide, drowning to a report of a drink driver, dangerous driving, old man fell over, underage drinking, shop lifter, or whatever.. you just don't know what you will get and they will have to prioritise then on which gets dealt with first.. That's when members of the regular become stretched.. Your clearly a petty man that has a grudge against gardai, I think it's kinda sad to go to the bother of taking pictures so you can post on an Internet forum.. Sorry for attacking the poster

Iwannahurl

deadwood wrote: »

... seeking out ne'er do well rogue Gardaí who seem to have nothing better to do than start cars for stranded motorists in happy oblivion to the fact that someone else with even more free time on their hands watches on...and on..

Between buying up every house ever built and sorting out evil jump-starters, I'll have this country back on its feet in no time.

Nothing better to do? It is you who say it.

More standard Boards/ES avoidance of the substantive issues by attacking the poster and making stuff up. I wouldn't have expected anything else, and if some of the posters here are actually members of AGS I'm beginning to expect even less on that front.

It may have escaped your notice that (a) I was on hoiday in the area, (b) I was based just around the corner and therefore passed the same spot more than once, and (c) I'm not paid from the public purse to provide policing services.

This fundamental fact -- that the taxpayer is paying for police, not glorified mechanics -- is not being dealt with here, IMO.

Are Garda resources scarce or are they not? That's the core issue, and the photos I posted comprise an attempt at highlighting that question.

The Irish Times recently ran a week-long series on crime and policing, which stated at the outset that most Garda stations are recording less than one crime per week. I must have missed the discussion on that in the Emergency Services forum.

How do you square that circle? Is AGS a modern, professional, well-organised outfit providing a cost-effective police service? Or is it, among other things, a provider of free car servicing for (some) members of the public?

If the former, and if resources are genuinely scarce, can we afford the latter?

Potential-Monke

@iwannahurl: We get it, the Gardai are not being run the way you want them to. Tell you what, get onto Shatter with your groundbreaking ideas and i'm sure he'll send out the memo.

I said i don't care anymore, and i'm being honest about that. But i also said i would do the job i'm obliged and paid to do. Nothing more. I will investigate to the best of my abilities, resources and time, but when the shift ends i tune out, turn off and basically forget the job i do. There was a time i might have done an extra bit after my shift finishes for no extra pay, but that time is well and truly gone. Luckily, i'm now in a position where i don't get files anymore, so you needn't worry about my attitude towards the frontline job, for now at least until "civilianisation" is introduced (Ring ring: "Hello, can i speak to a Garda about a personal matter please?" "Sorry, there's no Gardai available, you'll have to call into your local station".

I also get the point that you don't like seeing Gardai helping people out who are not victims of a crime. This was Lahinch? On that presumption (or fact, i couldn't be bothered going back through everything to verify), the duties of a Garda in Lahinch is not going to be the same as say, Limerick City or Pearse Street. The Lahinch Gardai will have a focus Community Relations, and if that involves helping someone jump start their car, so be it. It might also call for a Garda to help an elderly person cross the road, or pose for pictures for tourists. It's all part of community involvement. Maybe that car was detailed to stay within the town of Lahinch and help as it sees fit.

Go back up to Audidiesels post above, would you do the same job for circa 24k a year? Again, according to the government, i'm earning €40,389 a year. Take roughly 45% of that back in different forms of tax (yes, it's that high) and that's down to ~20k. My mortgage is €8160 a year (bought when i could well afford it, and not at boom prices either). That leaves me ~€12k a year to pay bills, eat and have some sanity socialising/entertaining my interests. That's €1k a month, which is €250 a week. After you take you bills/loans (averaged over a year), i'm left with €70 a week to feed myself, put fuel in my car, attempt to save and hope nothing expensive happens (like my bathroom flooding recently). And up until recently i was putting my life on the line everyday for people like you for €70 a week!

And now i'm working a 60 hour week which is apparently better for my work/life balance...

I understand where you're coming from, resources could be better spent somewhere else, but now you want a force that are basically robots. "Sorry Garda, any chance you'd know a local mechanic to jump my car?" "Negative, call 11811" "But i'm only visiting from America and i can't ring anyone as my phone is not set for roaming" "Not my problem, now get out of my way while i go and catch people in the process of breaking into a house, they were kind enough to tell me exactly where and when they will be doing it"...

Also, the Gardai are a semi-modern, mostly professional and mostly well organised outfit providing a community based service. We rely on the community, and if we don't take a small bit of our time out to help people in non-garda related matters, then the community we rely on will turn their back on us and make our job even that much harder. We need the community more now than ever, but with your thinking we won't have them either.

Pappa Charlie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Fixed your post a little there.

Exactly, if your car broke down in Spain or France you'd look for a mecánico or mécanicien to fix it, not a member of the Guardia Civil or Gendarmerie. Logical really, though apparently not so in Ireland. You might ask those officers for general assistance or relevant information, but would you expect them to pull out the jump leads and spend a minimum 30 minutes of their time trying to fix your car?

So is it only in Ireland that (some?) police officers "don't care any more" about providing a policing service because of resource cutbacks, but where the police and certain members of the public are still keen to see scarce resources used to provide ad hoc non-policing services such as free taxpayer-funded breakdown assist? And is that just grand, like?

And in what way is this Garda response "friendly and approachable"?

You are a troll plain and simple, as I said before you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. When you took and posted those pictures you proved you have an agenda!

Turner

Lads and lassies just to get things straight here.

Only one person here has a problem with the Gardai helping a stranded motorist in Lahinch by offering to jump start their car.

Everybody here can make up their own minds on what type of a person would have a problem with what happened. When making up their mind it should be noted that the person photographed the incident and then posted it on the internet in a forum frequented by alot of ES personnel.

I can assure you the Garda Ombudsmans's office was not inundated with calls from the residents of Lahinch who witnessed this absolute abuse of power and waste of government resources.

Im sure the fuel used was of great cost and the electricity...well that would have been provided by the alternator so that was somewhat free.

Members of every police force in the world are well aware that there are people out there who lead very boring lonely and unstimulated lives. Armed with their cameras they would like nothing more that to find police doing something wrong or something they shouldn't.

Generally police are too busy dealing with the seriousness of the job to engage or think about these people.

In this (Lahinch) case I have no problem with my tax dollars being used by our police force to help a stranded motorist and I can probably guess that there is a letter of appreciation from the said motorist on its way to the local Superintendent to commend the Gardai involved.

In fact I hope the person was a tourist and they will travel back to their home country spreading the good news about Ireland's police force. An approachable and diligent bunch who would go out of their way to help the public.

If anybody else here has a problem with the great "Lahinch Incident" I suggest as usual they contact the GSOC's office to lodge their complaint.

Hooch

To add to the above......it's worth noting that the new Isuzu Dmax's that AGS bought last year have jump start capability!!:eek: :eek:

The shock and horror of it all. They even went to the trouble to have it an internal booster with two external ports to connect the "jump leads", front and back of the jeep to allow a member to reverse or drive up to the bonnet of a car with a flat battery.

Now I wonder why management wanted to do that, I wouldnt really know why. I'm only a Garda. Not a troll.

Iwannahurl

0325422 wrote: »

Gardai don't control when they get calls or what type of calls they receive.. Phone rings, someone looks for help and the call is dealt with no Matter what.. Now if garda members have a spare half hour to help a member of the public, what the f**k is wrong with that.. An hour later that 1 car could have 2 or 10 calls ranging from a fatal rta, suicide, drowning to a report of a drink driver, dangerous driving, old man fell over, underage drinking, shop lifter, or whatever.. you just don't know what you will get and they will have to prioritise then on which gets dealt with first.. That's when members of the regular become stretched.. Your clearly a petty man that has a grudge against gardai, I think it's kinda sad to go to the bother of taking pictures so you can post on an Internet forum.. Sorry for attacking the poster

Why would you be sorry for attacking the poster? It's par for the course on Boards, in my experience, including and perhaps especially the Emergency Services forum. See "Moderator" comments above, by way of illustration.

With regard to the substantive issues, are you saying that any member of the public can call AGS and ask for their intervention "no matter what" the situation? And that we have a "right" to a response, even if the problem is starting our car? Sorry, but I regard that notion as absurdity of Kafkaesque proportions.

It is also not in keeping with what has been stated elsewhere in this thread, such as that cutbacks are eroding the level of service to the public and that morale has similarly been eroded to the point where AGS members "don't care anymore".

Are resources scarce or are they not? Are policing services being eroded or are they not, and if so how can we afford to employ police officers to act as on-call, free mechanics for the general public?

Have you read the Garda Inspectorate report on resource allocation that I linked to more than once in this thread, and if so what have you to say about the fundamental issues they raise?

I witnessed the Lahinch jump-start episode when the Irish Times series on crime and law enforcement was still current. It struck me as being a neat illustration of the disconnect (pardon the pun) between the alleged crisis in policing and the reality on the ground in some areas. That is why I referred to it. People may not like that I made the case with reference to photo evidence, but IMO the value of such an approach is that visual evidence is not as easily dismissed or denied as anecdotal report.

Pappa Charlie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Why would you be sorry for attacking the poster? It's par for the course on Boards, in my experience, including and perhaps especially the Emergency Services forum. See "Moderator" comments above, by way of illustration.

With regard to the substantive issues, are you saying that any member of the public can call AGS and ask for their intervention "no matter what" the situation? And that we have a "right" to a response, even if the problem is starting our car? Sorry, but I regard that notion as absurdity of Kafkaesque proportions.

It is also not in keeping with what has been stated elsewhere in this thread, such as that cutbacks are eroding the level of service to the public and that morale has similarly been eroded to the point where AGS members "don't care anymore".

Are resources scarce or are they not? Are policing services being eroded or are they not, and if so how can we afford to employ police officers to act as on-call, free mechanics for the general public?

Have you read the Garda Inspectorate report on resource allocation that I linked to more than once in this thread, and if so what have you to say about the fundamental issues they raise?

I witnessed the Lahinch jump-start episode when the Irish Times series on crime and law enforcement was still current. It struck me as being a neat illustration of the disconnect (pardon the pun) between the alleged crisis in policing and the reality on the ground in some areas. That is why I referred to it. People may not like that I made the case with reference to photo evidence, but IMO the value of such an approach is that visual evidence is not as easily dismissed or denied as anecdotal report.

Do you really think that because you saw a Garda assisting a member of the public in a rural area in getting their car started that there can't be a lack of resources elsewhere in the country? your arguement is in the toilet and it is a troll, no wonder your correspondance is'nt replied to anymore with ****e like that!

tayto lover

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Why would you be sorry for attacking the poster? It's par for the course on Boards, in my experience, including and perhaps especially the Emergency Services forum. See "Moderator" comments above, by way of illustration.

With regard to the substantive issues, are you saying that any member of the public can call AGS and ask for their intervention "no matter what" the situation? And that we have a "right" to a response, even if the problem is starting our car? Sorry, but I regard that notion as absurdity of Kafkaesque proportions.

It is also not in keeping with what has been stated elsewhere in this thread, such as that cutbacks are eroding the level of service to the public and that morale has similarly been eroded to the point where AGS members "don't care anymore".

Are resources scarce or are they not? Are policing services being eroded or are they not, and if so how can we afford to employ police officers to act as on-call, free mechanics for the general public?

Have you read the Garda Inspectorate report on resource allocation that I linked to more than once in this thread, and if so what have you to say about the fundamental issues they raise?

I witnessed the Lahinch jump-start episode when the Irish Times series on crime and law enforcement was still current. It struck me as being a neat illustration of the disconnect (pardon the pun) between the alleged crisis in policing and the reality on the ground in some areas. That is why I referred to it. People may not like that I made the case with reference to photo evidence, but IMO the value of such an approach is that visual evidence is not as easily dismissed or denied as anecdotal report.

You need to get out more often, without your camera. Get a life FFS.

calibelle

@ Iwannahurl, just out of interest how do you know the motorists in question called the Gardai when their car broke down as opposed to a patrol car happening to pass by, saw them in trouble and wanted to help out?
The guards helping could have been on a break or heading back at the end of their shift......so on their own personal time really.

Either way it seems you didn't bother to help which could have freed up the guards time.....maybe you should try that next time rather than taking photos and criticising.