Teach myself Music Production

brian26w

Ok, so i`ve been interested in music production since i was a kid and i`ve never really had the chance to study it. I`ve recently completed a degree in business and that`s great but I cannot get work related to my degree......lately i`ve been thinking a lot about music as throughout my life i`ve been a chef, a plumber, and now hold a degree in business ( sounds like a slight lack of direction aye) but i`ve always come back to my music and I feel this is the life I would be most happy with........just one slight problem, I cant afford the colossal fee that is being charged (pulse college: music production degree = about 28,000) .......so I reckon the only option is to teach myself. I have started ordering some books online, but what I was wondering is if anybody on here has studied music production and knows the typical book list for the degree, in either pulse college or elsewhere.......i`d be grateful for any help or advice

DamagedTrax

dont know about the degree course but on the sound engineering course we had no books except for our protools course books. the rest was hand out notes.

if you're based in dublin and you're gonna use protools i can sell you mine for a few quid?

PM me if interested

PaulBrewer

I think learning 'Production' from a book is a similar to learning Woodwork from a book ....

brian26w

I`ve actually got pro tools. Ive got a midi controller, audio interface and pretty much all the equipment I need. The sound engineering course wouldnt really be what i`m looking for, i`m more interested in making the music but I lack the theory behind putting a full song together! ........and I understand learning it from a book is not the same as the practical experience I would gain by having a state of the art studio at my disposal, but under the circumstances I see no other option!........the guys doing the production degree would be learning how to record bands etc. but I want to learn it for my own music so I can afford to miss a few steps.....i`m thinking that with the right books and my own home studio I can do ok. I`m already a whiz with pro tools etc. but lacking the theory and mastering skills is holding me back.

DamagedTrax

brian26w wrote: »

I`ve actually got pro tools. Ive got a midi controller, audio interface and pretty much all the equipment I need. The sound engineering course wouldnt really be what i`m looking for, i`m more interested in making the music but I lack the theory behind putting a full song together! ........and I understand learning it from a book is not the same as the practical experience I would gain by having a state of the art studio at my disposal, but under the circumstances I see no other option!........the guys doing the production degree would be learning how to record bands etc. but I want to learn it for my own music so I can afford to miss a few steps.....i`m thinking that with the right books and my own home studio I can do ok. I`m already a whiz with pro tools etc. but lacking the theory and mastering skills is holding me back.

the protools books dont focus on sound engineering. they just focus on how to use protools. the engineering and production courses both work fromt the same books.

DamagedTrax

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I think learning 'Production' from a book is a similar to learning Woodwork from a book ....

if you have a lathe and a block of wood and no idea how to use them then i would think a book on how to do it might come in handy, no?

i learned how to fix my vespas from a book

brian26w

DamagedTrax wrote: »

if you have a lathe and a block of wood and no idea how to use them then i would think a book on how to do it might come in handy, no?

i learned how to fix my vespas from a book

You`re right, I reckon as long as i`ve got the tools there`s no reason why I cant teach myself

brian26w

DamagedTrax wrote: »

the protools books dont focus on sound engineering. they just focus on how to use protools. the engineering and production courses both work fromt the same books.

Cool I didnt know that. I`ve already got pro tools 101 so it looks like i`ve a good start

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I think learning 'Production' from a book is a similar to learning Woodwork from a book ....

I think you may get better woodwork books, than books on music production.


And I have seen the notes from a few music production courses. Actually, I have seen the notes from a lot of music production courses. Charging four grand to literally give someone a glance at pro-tools is taking the piss.

peter05

Maybe a part time "musicianship" is in order, a fetac module maybe in order if your new to it. You could try Thames valley guitar exam's, they're greatt to get your theory off to a good start. I think they sit Bi-monthly in Dublin. The trick is finding a teacher to help you understand them. I did my 8 modules years ago, found them great.

You could try work experience 2-3days a week. Between the 2 you would be sorted.

krd

brian26w wrote: »

i`m more interested in making the music but I lack the theory behind putting a full song together!

You mean how to do a song arrangement?

What kind of music do you like?

I've never used pro-tools. I use Ableton. One easy way to learn a song arrangement is to get a songs MP3. Load it into your DAW, and watch what happens when you play it (this is very easy to do in Ableton, as Ableton warps the tracks to fit). You'll see different things. Dance music usually progresses in blocks of bars that are usually multiples of 4. (4,8,16, 32). Odd numbered blocks are to be avoided unless you really know what you're doing.

Dance music is the easiest to make, as you don't need other musicians to help you out.

The only way to do it, is to get down to it. You're early creations will be horrific abominations.

DamagedTrax

krd wrote: »

You're early creations will be horrific abominations.

but probably the most original stuff you'll ever do!

Denalihighway

OP...

i started in Cubase properly about a year and a half ago. At this stage I'd be very much a novice theory-wise compared to the lads here as I've no formal background or training whatsoever in sound, but production/engineering wise in Cubase (as in, putting tracks together, editing, rough mixing) I'm already beyond what I thought I was capable of.

I put a lot of time into it, but its easy cuz I'm obsessed with it. I have a 9-5 job which gives me a nice wedge to buy decent equipment, I'm lucky in that respect. Its also quite flexible which is great.

what I'm saying is its very possible to do this, to get a good start at it yourself. The amount of tutorials and advice available online is mind-blowing - I generally find solutions that way and with the operations manual and again, with this, I'm already way beyond what I originally thought I could do. I'd be OK with computers but I've never excelled.

I think you should just go for it, u already have a bit of gear. If its something you'll stick at you'll know about it very soon and then you can think about investing or doing advanced courses or whatever. I don't see that point in spending a load of money on courses if you're not sure about it.

krd

DamagedTrax wrote: »

but probably the most original stuff you'll ever do!

Yes....But originality often sounds to other people like an idiot who doesn't know what they're doing.


I also have to say, I've been that idiot, who did not know what they were doing.

brian26w

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

@ krd yes the arrangement is where I get a bit stressed out. Everything would be going great at first then I loose focus. I`m into dance music myself...well a bit of everything really, but mainly stuff like daft punk, the glitch mob, vitalic.........................I know what you`re saying about loading in the mp3, i`ve done that and even found some good midi files that break it down nicely. I have learnt a lot but when you hear of guys throwing songs together in a couple of hours and you`ve about 40 unfinished songs (some definite abominations) ya start to loose the head!.....I think some good literature on song arrangement would be a good idea...

@Denalihighway.......It is definitely something I would stick with....i`m obsessed myself.....sure my maintenance grant that I got to fund my time in business college was all spent on music equipment!.......

You see i`m kind of at a bit of a crossroads.....on one hand do I get a job and work like a cog in a corporate machine for the rest of my life and wake up when i`m 50 saying "what the hell did I do with my ****ty life", or do I go with my dream and make music that blows people away (or at least try).......hmmm it`s a tough one?!

I suppose the best thing to do is to get stuck in, and if a job comes along I should take it and fund my obsession

seannash

Go for it man.ask on here and people will help you out.but be specific as vague questions tend to trail off on some other tangent.

you have alot more equipment than most starting out.

krd

brian26w wrote: »

I have learnt a lot but when you hear of guys throwing songs together in a couple of hours and you`ve about 40 unfinished songs (some definite abominations) ya start to loose the head!

The last track I did - which was at Christmas (I've been on a hiatus since then) took me under 3 hours. And it sounds like a lot more work went into it.

Though I have in the past, spent 90 hours working insanely on a hi-hat and the end product sounding absolutely f'ing dreadful.

The Skillz....are extemporaneous. That is, once you know what you're doing, you can do it really quickly. You only really get bogged down when you don't really know. ...or if you needed something really time consuming to create.

.....I think some good literature on song arrangement would be a good idea...

There's also a lot of bad literature on song arrangements. In terms of song arrangements, I've haven't had much help from the web. You get answers like "oh be creative...don't use the bog standard arrangements....be original". Of course if you're "original", no DJ is ever going to use your music because it's too hard for them to mix.

One thing you've got to learn how to do, is finish tracks. So, you get the entire process down.

Collaboration, and working towards a solid goal is another way to up your skillz to another level. A problem with dance production is, most producers are the arseist people you ever meet in your entire life.

Arsey beyond imagination. The same people got started on Tiesto.

brian26w

krd wrote: »

The last track I did - which was at Christmas (I've been on a hiatus since then) took me under 3 hours. And it sounds like a lot more work went into it.

Though I have in the past, spent 90 hours working insanely on a hi-hat and the end product sounding absolutely f'ing dreadful.

The Skillz....are extemporaneous. That is, once you know what you're doing, you can do it really quickly. You only really get bogged down when you don't really know. ...or if you needed something really time consuming to create.



There's also a lot of bad literature on song arrangements. In terms of song arrangements, I've haven't had much help from the web. You get answers like "oh be creative...don't use the bog standard arrangements....be original". Of course if you're "original", no DJ is ever going to use your music because it's too hard for them to mix.

One thing you've got to learn how to do, is finish tracks. So, you get the entire process down.

Collaboration, and working towards a solid goal is another way to up your skillz to another level. A problem with dance production is, most producers are the arseist people you ever meet in your entire life.

Arsey beyond imagination. The same people got started on Tiesto.

3 hours would be nice, i`ve often sat up without sleep myself.....some of the stuff wasnt bad but I think it was the excitement of playing with new sounds and ideas.....I reckon that`s part of my problem, maybe I need to pick a concept and stick to it instead of running off on a mad one and ending up with a tune that sounds nothing like what I started with....maybe i should lay out a basic tune, drums, bass, lead etc., just to have the track layed out visually, then I can work on changing the sounds. I gotta try finish a song and stop messin

I get what you`re saying about arrangement, I think creativity is good when it comes to the sounds you`re making but ya wanna stick to the formula for a good track

My cousin wants me to collaborate but the only problem is he likes rap. I suppose I could put up with him rapping into a mic for the sake of playing around with a few ideas!

krd

brian26w wrote: »

. I gotta try finish a song and stop messin

You need a demon to come out and beat you with a stick.

Setting deadlines is a good way to make stuff.......Create and imagine deadline - to post on Soundcloud by 9 O'clock Sunday.

I get what you`re saying about arrangement, I think creativity is good when it comes to the sounds you`re making but ya wanna stick to the formula for a good track

You can get caught up in noodling. It's a good way to create sketches you may comeback to later. Completing tracks is a more painful business. Because you don't have to bother doing things when you're noodling, that you really need to do if you're building a complete track.

My cousin wants me to collaborate but the only problem is he likes rap. I suppose I could put up with him rapping into a mic for the sake of playing around with a few ideas!

Yeah, that's a good way to go. And if you don't like it, you can be all the more objective about the production.

Set yourself the task of completing a track by a deadline.

brian26w

@krd


Demon....check
Stick.......check
Deadline..check

Good tips. I`m giving myself till Friday the 17th to finish a track. It`s a realistic time given I`ve a tonne of stuff to do. So by the 17th i`m gonna have a track finished be it good or bad. But i`ll learn that`s the main thing.

What kinda background in music do you have? What kind of music do you make?

krd

brian26w wrote: »

Good tips. I`m giving myself till Friday the 17th to finish a track. It`s a realistic time given I`ve a tonne of stuff to do. So by the 17th i`m gonna have a track finished be it good or bad. But i`ll learn that`s the main thing.

And then you have to come back here, and we get to throw rotten vegetables at you.

What kinda background in music do you have? What kind of music do you make?

Me?

I'm lost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43qB9FpfCR8

BumbleB

Develop your ears. Your ears are your most important tool. Practise ,Practise ,Practise, Theres people out there who dont even know whats an E chord is ,and they produce well.

krd

And don't forget to make a **** list of people you asked for help, but deliberately gave you bad advice and tried to trip you up.

Yedya

Hey man il give you some real advice from MY experince,ive actually signed some stuff to UK trance labels.
I thought myself,mostly from fourms,youtube tuts,talking to others and finally a small class in sound design.I can say your much better learning it from a school/college or a book.You make to many mistakes learning on your own and it takes forever....

Once you start to get good,start to make producer friends to get feedback off,mostly online of course.Now these people need to have good ears,dont take feedback from people whoes tracks sound like ****e.Make sure they have good ears and give accurate,solid and understandable feedback.
Try to make some in Ireland so you can collab and learn some tips and tricks with them in the studio.
DONT GIVE UP :rolleyes:

BumbleB wrote: »

Develop your ears. Your ears are your most important tool. Practise ,Practise ,Practise, Theres people out there who dont even know whats an E chord is ,and they produce well.

Hit the nail on the head m8.

seannash

Yedya wrote: »

Now these people need to have good ears,dont take feedback from people whoes tracks sound like ****e.Make sure they have good ears and give accurate,solid and understandable feedback.

This is very important.
Usually the people who are dishing out advice on forums rarely make anything but talk a great game.
Its better to approach a producer you like and have similar taste as yourself and ask for feedback than relying on strangers on forums.

Just try and send them your best work first and dont bother sending them drafts or unfinished tracks.

krd

Yedya wrote: »

Now these people need to have good ears,dont take feedback from people whoes tracks sound like ****e.

*cough*.....you're talking about me....I know you are.

krd

seannash wrote: »

This is very important.
Usually the people who are dishing out advice on forums rarely make anything but talk a great game.

*cough*......you're talking about me. I know you are.

seannash

krd wrote: »

*cough*......you're talking about me. I know you are.

amongst many others,possibly myself included

Yedya

Im confused?

krd

seannash wrote: »

amongst many others,possibly myself included

Grump.

DamagedTrax

Yedya wrote: »

Im confused?

i think he means that there's a lot of talk around here but very few can back it up with releases.

krd

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i think he means that there's a lot of talk around here but very few can back it up with releases.

No, now you're confused.

DamagedTrax

must be. so i dunno then

tomtherobot

I've done two full time year long courses in sound engineering and tbh i couldn't really recommend them, you'll learn some stuff but there's an awful lot of filler on those courses. I'd recommend maybe taking classes specifically in the areas you're interested in (using a DAW or arranging) but after that it's practise, practise, practise.

jtsuited

there is nothing on these courses (and I teach on one) that you can't learn by yourself. Simple as that. Anyone who says otherwise is normally trying to sell you something.

pinksoir

I've waxed lyrical about the Lynda.com online mixing tutorials here. They had a week's free membership recently, I dunno if they still have it now, but you could do the course I did in a week easily.

They do actually : http://www.lynda.com/promo/trial/Default.aspx?lpk35=1854

Another good one I came across recently is Groove3. I did their Reaper 4 Explained course recently and found it as good as the Lynda.com one, though obviously they were two different subjects. the ease of use, logical layout, and clarity of explanations is what I like about them both.

The Lynda.com one is, I think, $25 a month. The Groove3 is $30, with monthly auto renewal, or $35 without auto-renewal. I think the Lynda.com one auto renews as well so just make sure you cancel it at the end of the month if a month's all you want.

You can learn a lot online in a month. I've done a few real world courses in different things and I always found them slow and full of filler, whereas I've had a ton of success with online stuff. The Groove3 one has a lot more stuff for what you want to do so I'd be inclined to recommend that.

Yedya

tomtherobot wrote: »

I've done two full time year long courses in sound engineering and tbh i couldn't really recommend them, you'll learn some stuff but there's an awful lot of filler on those courses. I'd recommend maybe taking classes specifically in the areas you're interested in (using a DAW or arranging) but after that it's practise, practise, practise.

Yea alot of courses waste time with ****.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i think he means that there's a lot of talk around here but very few can back it up with releases.

Hmmmm i have releases on UK Trance labels..

Gel

And the future is:

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7713627/how-to-not-get-a-job-at-a-recording-studio

DamagedTrax

Yedya wrote: »

Hmmmm i have releases on UK Trance labels..

i wouldnt be shouting about that...

Yedya

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i wouldnt be shouting about that...

Why?

seannash

Yedya wrote: »

Hmmmm i have releases on UK Trance labels..

Nice plug but I wasn't talking about you specifically

DamagedTrax

Yedya wrote: »

Why?

cause its trance

Yedya

DamagedTrax wrote: »

cause its trance

So? what do you produce? I couldn't give a a ****,i like trance music.

pinksoir

krd

seannash wrote: »

Nice plug but I wasn't talking about you specifically

To assuage everyone's guilt and paranoia....Sean was specifically referring to me.

But he does hate f**** trance....And he is a dance music snob.

DamagedTrax

Yedya wrote: »

So? what do you produce? I couldn't give a a ****,i like trance music.

loads of stuff. but not trance

but here, to show there's no hard feelings i got you this earlier

DamagedTrax

also chill out. im only taking the piss outta trance

krd

jtsuited wrote: »

there is nothing on these courses (and I teach on one) that you can't learn by yourself. Simple as that. Anyone who says otherwise is normally trying to sell you something.

Probably what there is a lack of (and not that I'd have the money to do one) is more advanced courses.

Any course where a muppet spends the first two hour class of a ten week course telling the class, sounds are made of waves is taking the proverbial, and spraying it over your face while laughing and gently stroking themselves.

Group collaboration and project work - no flaking around. Dealing with labels - what is complete **** and what is not. Achieving a little more than 60 plays on Soundcloud (and I don't mean spamming so you get 100).

Possibly an arts council grant or something to finance a proper release/s.

Yedya

DamagedTrax wrote: »

also chill out. im only taking the piss outta trance

Ok but what do you produce? Alot of people can produce trance because its hard to mix and get energey..just sayin

DamagedTrax

Yedya wrote: »

Ok but what do you produce? Alot of people can produce trance because its hard to mix and get energey..just sayin

ill produce any type of music im comfortable with.

as far as my own productions are concerned, ive released on some of the biggest UK/euro techno and acid techno labels, aswell as some glitch, some acid trance, some house & tech house all under various different guises. ive a lot of actual vinyl out there with my name on it... also I have many leather-bound books, and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

biggest release so far has been on stay up forever records. doesnt get much bigger than that in the hard techno world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBzqj2B8v-c

... so i think im enetitled to give trance a little harmless slaggin off

seannash

Seems like someone got a schoolin