Poll reveals less than half of Irish people consider themselves to be religious

seamus

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/survey-claims-many-irish-people-are-questioning-faith-562085.html

Annoyingly short on details though. Can't find any details of the poll online except for a few other news sites that posted results for their respective countries.

Unsurprisingly there's a strong negative correlation between education, income & religiousity - i.e. those better educated and earning more are less likely to be religious.

Annoyingly though the poll seems to have added "atheist" in as a third option, i.e. "Religious", "Not religious" and "atheist". Which to me calls the whole bloody thing into doubt since being athiest does not exclude being religious or irreligious.

I'll see if I can find any further details of the survey.

Beruthiel

Less than half of Irish people would consider themselves to be religious

Where were all these people when the last census was being filled out!?

Beruthiel

Beruthiel wrote: »

Where were all these people when the last census was being filled out!?

at home with mammy

Gurgle

Beruthiel wrote: »

Where were all these people when the last census was being filled out!?

Ticking the 'Catholic' box apparently.
People don't fully appreciate the difference between 'religion' and 'family tradition'.

joseph brand

Poll reveals less than half of Irish people consider themselves to be religious

Thank god christ Science.

Liamario

Honestly wasn't surprised by this story. It's something we've been saying since the census results came out; showing not only that the census results are WRONG, that other people are filling out the forms for other people and also that the phrasing of the question was poor and ambiguous.

Delirium

seamus wrote: »

I'll see if I can find any further details of the survey.

From Red C website:

Irish citizens are far less likely to claim that they are religious, according to the latest global poll released by WIN-Gallup International, a world-wide network of leading opinion pollsters represented in Ireland by RED C.

Ireland now rates themselves as one of the least religious countries in the poll. 59% of the world said that they think of themselves as religious person, 23% think of themselves as not religious whereas 13% think of themselves as convinced atheists.

However, when we compare this to the Irish population, only 47% consider themselves religious, placing Ireland low on the index of being religious coming in at position 43 out of 57 countries.

The question was last asked in Ireland in 2005, when 69% considered themselves religious. As such, there has been a significant decline of 22% who no longer feel they are religious.

Source

Direct Link to PDF of the report

EDIT: report indicates that Ireland is in the top 11 of countries with the largest percentage of atheists as part of the population.

Reindeer

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/ireland-abandoning-religion-faster-than-almost-every-other-country-16195112.html


"Republic of Ireland abandoning religion faster than almost every other country"

thegreengoblin

This story has made my feckin day, Ted.

Let me read it again....."The Republic of Ireland is abandoning religion faster than almost every other country worldwide"

Aahhhhh.......;)

Dave!

Newstalk wheeled out John Waters as their religious talking head to discuss this on the Breakfast Show... I can't really summarise what he said, because I'm not entirely sure. Some stuff about how the terminology of the survey wasn't... good...

He did come out with a doozie about how atheists are idiots who haven't thought about the important questions in life.

He ended with a challenge to those who want to do away with the Catholic Church: what will you replace it with?

[God] knows, it must be replaced!!

copeyhagen

science dam you!!!

Delirium

Dave! wrote: »

Newstalk wheeled out John Waters as their religious talking head to discuss this on the Breakfast Show... I can't really summarise what he said, because I'm not entirely sure. Some stuff about how the terminology of the survey wasn't... good...

He did come out with a doozie about how atheists are idiots who haven't thought about the important questions in life.

He ended with a challenge to those who want to do away with the Catholic Church: what will you replace it with?

[God] knows, it must be replaced!!

The main thing I took from his segment on the show was "philosophy=religion", which would make everyone religious as everyone has a personal philosophy.

thegreengoblin

David Quinn, John Waters, Eamon Casey, Youth Defence, Sean Brady....your boys are taking a hell of a beating!

LittleBook

Dave! wrote: »

Newstalk wheeled out John Waters as their religious talking head to discuss this on the Breakfast Show... I can't really summarise what he said, because I'm not entirely sure. Some stuff about how the terminology of the survey wasn't... good...

He did come out with a doozie about how atheists are idiots who haven't thought about the important questions in life.

He ended with a challenge to those who want to do away with the Catholic Church: what will you replace it with?

[God] knows, it must be replaced!!

That's because the interview was nothing more than a rambling monologue. I was deeply disappointed with Shane Coleman who said/asked practically nothing and seemed to be completely enthralled with Waters who described atheists as the "stupid" people in Ireland.

It was so ironic listening to him calling for "discussion" in what was easily the most imbalanced interview I've every heard on Newstalk with the most inappropriate pundit on the subject.

And yes, as Koth said, he completely fails to see the difference between philosophy and religion.

Would have been laughable if it wasn't so rare to get the chance to discuss atheism (or just the decline of religion!) in a situation like this.

LittleBook

koth wrote: »

Direct Link to PDF of the report

EDIT: report indicates that Ireland is in the top 11 of countries with the largest percentage of atheists as part of the population.

Hang on! Waters was banging on about how misleading the survey was because it used the word "religiosity" which confused people or implied a sort of religious devoutness/fanatacism.

But the actual question was simply:

Irrespective of whether you attend a place of worship or not, would you say you are a religious person, not a religious persons or a convinced atheist?

You'd think an interviewer would know what the feckin' question polled was!

doctoremma

Am I an idiot or is there no data for the UK in that survey?

LittleBook

doctoremma wrote: »

Am I an idiot or is there no data for the UK in that survey?

It's more a press release from Red C Research, an Irish PR company, than the actual report (which I can't find yet in complete form).

doctoremma

LittleBook wrote: »

It's more a press release from Red C Research, an Irish PR company, than the actual report (which I can't find yet in complete form).

Sure, but the summary data from G7 countries includes only six. I wonder if we weren't asked!

MagicMarker

Tom Dunne will be talking about this as well on News Talk.

I ****ing hate him though so not sure I'll manage to stick through it.

Dave!

LittleBook wrote: »

That's because the interview was nothing more than a rambling monologue. I was deeply disappointed with Shane Coleman who said/asked practically nothing and seemed to be completely enthralled with Waters who described atheists as the "stupid" people in Ireland.

It was so ironic listening to him calling for "discussion" in what was easily the most imbalanced interview I've every heard on Newstalk with the most inappropriate pundit on the subject.

And yes, as Koth said, he completely fails to see the difference between philosophy and religion.

Would have been laughable if it wasn't so rare to get the chance to discuss atheism (or just the decline of religion!) in a situation like this.

Totally agreed.

My letter to the IT:

Sir,

I await with bated breath John Waters' latest bloviations regarding the recent and dramatic decline in religious self-identity here in Ireland, as revealed yesterday by the WIN-Gallup Global Index on Religion and Atheism, which your paper has curiously failed to report on. The results show that 47% of Irish people responded in the affirmative when asked if they would consider themselves a religious person (irrespective of church attendance, etc.). This is significantly below the global average of 59%, placing us 43rd out of the 57 countries indexed, and is a massive decline from the 69% that the same survey revealed in 2005.

This raises many interesting points which need to be considered, among them the relevance of the Census in determining religious identity. Many publications, including your own, uncritically echoed the CSO's interpretation of the 2011 results as evidence of a country still rooted in Catholic tradition, despite the ever-declining Church attendance numbers, and changing demographics. The many problems with the Census question on religion were flagged in advance, in particular by Atheist Ireland, but they were largely brushed aside. Now we see the results of a survey which ask a more relevant question, to adults only, and we get a better picture of Ireland's religiosity. Furthermore, Census aside, it is an inescapable fact that there has been a 22% drop from 2005 for the same question.

Having had a glimpse at Mr. Waters' response to the survey's findings, on the radio this morning, I expect his column will largely sidestep the issue with semantics and sophistry. However, there was a revelatory moment at the end of his radio appearance (well, two, as he also saw fit to make a disparaging and insulting remark about atheists), as he asked his "gotcha" question, where he challenged the non-religious to come up with a replacement for the Catholic Church. Ignoring for a moment the implicit assumption that every country must have some some kind of religious identity or it will surely fall (most Northern European and Scandinavian countries would disagree), this challenge suggests that Waters is accepting the fact that we're entering a post-Catholic period in this country. Sounds good, John. I'm on board with that.

Yours, etc.,

Dave!

MagicMarker wrote: »

Tom Dunne will be talking about this as well on News Talk.

I ****ing hate him though so not sure I'll manage to stick through it.

Cheers, I'm listening begrudgingly...

If anyone hears of them discussing it elsewhere, post up and let us know!

Delirium

It seems that Michael Nugent will be on Newstalk around noon to discuss the survey. Will post up more info if they announce exactly when he's on.

LittleBook

doctoremma wrote: »

Sure, but the summary data from G7 countries includes only six. I wonder if we weren't asked!

Oh yeah! Interesting.

Dave!

Mick Nugent has been and gone on the Lunchtime show on Newstalk.

Pretty tame 'debate' between him and a Catholic priest who appears to be pretty disillusioned with the Church! Michael made some good points, nothing too controversial, they didn't disagree much

Gbear

Dave! wrote: »

Totally agreed.

My letter to the IT:

I await with bated breath John Waters' latest bloviations

That too is pretty bloviatious.

Dave!

eh, hello, I'm trying to get published in the Irish Times!

expectationlost

i actually thought 'convinced atheist' was a bit of strange phrase, i am probably one but i know that isn't quite right, i google the phrase and every page it appear on was a religious one.

jank

Dave! wrote: »

[God] knows, it must be replaced!!

In fairness, he may have a point. I am not saying a country should replace a religion with another religion, and that if religion cannot be replaced we should keep it.

I think the point he was trying to make was that what set of ethics, values and standards would we put in place instead of it, if any? Or would we just see what happens?

Nations cannot exist without a common set of values and ideology.

MagicMarker

jank wrote: »

In fairness, he may have a point. I am not saying a country should replace a religion with another religion, and that if religion cannot be replaced we should keep it.

I think the point he was trying to make was that what set of ethics, values and standards would we put in place instead of it, if any? Or would we just see what happens?

Nations cannot exist without a common set of values and ideology.

They're called laws.

Corkfeen

jank wrote: »

Dave! wrote: »

[God] knows, it must be replaced!!

In fairness, he may have a point. I am not saying a country should replace a religion with another religion, and that if religion cannot be replaced we should keep it.

I think the point he was trying to make was that what set of ethics, values and standards would we put in place instead of it, if any? Or would we just see what happens?

Nations cannot exist without a common set of values and ideology.

I really don't think the majority of Irish people share their ethics or values with the Catholic Church... If we did; divorce , the dreaded sodomy, contraceptives and Ivf would be illegal.... Ethics and the likes haven't developed solely from religion. In terms of the values of the church, they're rather warped and nonsensical the majority of the time.

Galvasean

jank wrote: »

In fairness, he may have a point. I am not saying a country should replace a religion with another religion, and that if religion cannot be replaced we should keep it.

I think the point he was trying to make was that what set of ethics, values and standards would we put in place instead of it, if any? Or would we just see what happens?

Nations cannot exist without a common set of values and ideology.

Alright, I'm gonna say it because no one else seems willing to: There is no way you are an atheist. Give it up. you're fooling nobody coming out with cack like that.

Liamario

Galvasean wrote: »

Alright, I'm gonna say it because no one else seems willing to: There is no way you are an atheist. Give it up. you're fooling nobody coming out with cack like that.

Cultural Atheist?

MagicMarker

Galvasean wrote: »

Alright, I'm gonna say it because no one else seems willing to: There is no way you are an atheist. Give it up. you're fooling nobody coming out with cack like that.

I thought that went without saying?

joseph brand

jank wrote: »

In fairness, he may have a point. I am not saying a country should replace a religion with another religion, and that if religion cannot be replaced we should keep it.

I think the point he was trying to make was that what set of ethics, values and standards would we put in place instead of it, if any? Or would we just see what happens?

Nations cannot exist without a common set of values and ideology.

If the church dies, we'll all become murderers, rapists, thieves and paedophiles. The world will be 'topsy-turvy'.
"Cats and dogs, living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!" :rolleyes:

Jellicoe

seamus wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/survey-claims-many-irish-people-are-questioning-faith-562085.html

Annoyingly short on details though. Can't find any details of the poll online except for a few other news sites that posted results for their respective countries.

Unsurprisingly there's a strong negative correlation between education, income & religiousity - i.e. those better educated and earning more are less likely to be religious.

Annoyingly though the poll seems to have added "atheist" in as a third option, i.e. "Religious", "Not religious" and "atheist". Which to me calls the whole bloody thing into doubt since being athiest does not exclude being religious or irreligious.

I'll see if I can find any further details of the survey.

What exactly is 'religious' anyway ?

What does someone have to be / do before they can consider or call themselves 'religious' ?

Your ordinary casual once a week or so mass goer would hardly describe themselves as 'religious'

The Mad Hatter

Galvasean wrote: »

Alright, I'm gonna say it because no one else seems willing to: There is no way you are an atheist. Give it up. you're fooling nobody coming out with cack like that.

Did Jank claim to be an atheist?

The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Did Jank claim to be an atheist?

he keeps saying he's not a christian i think it was inferred from that, though it's clear he isn't atheist

lynski

I was listening to mr. waters this morning, and my hubbie had to come in as I was shouting at the radio.
There is no way anyone would get away with saying on air ' it seems to me that the most stupid people in Ireland are Catholic/Muslim/Jewish/Mormon'
How dare he? The assumption that because someone does not believe in the God of Moses/Jesus Christ/Saints in Heaven we will go out and kill/rob/maim/rape without hesitation. It is a vile and insulting assumption to make about another human being, particularly when the infrastructure of the church he supports has shown itself to be adept at all of the above hundreds of years.
i think atheists have a deeper respect for the human condition and more trust in each other then any religious person, atheists have more of a chance of establishing a lasting, real morality then any person who relies on a deity for their morality.

Very badly written article on the independent website by David Quinn imo.
Apparently we're atheist's because of Richard D's 'new atheism' and his best selling books. :rolleyes:

and also, because nearly half the population attend mass at least once a month, we're still very religious.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/david-quinn-the-divide-in-ireland-is-not-one-between-various-faiths-but-between-religion-itself-and-secularism-3194243.html

Mark Hamill

expectationlost wrote: »

i actually thought 'convinced atheist' was a bit of strange phrase, i am probably one but i know that isn't quite right, i google the phrase and every page it appear on was a religious one.

Its an oxymoron, isn't it? Being an atheist means you aren't convinced god or gods exist?

Botany Bay

Dave! wrote: »

Newstalk wheeled out John Waters as their religious talking head to discuss this on the Breakfast Show... I can't really summarise what he said, because I'm not entirely sure. Some stuff about how the terminology of the survey wasn't... good...

He did come out with a doozie about how atheists are idiots who haven't thought about the important questions in life.

He ended with a challenge to those who want to do away with the Catholic Church: what will you replace it with?

[God] knows, it must be replaced!!

It's a strange one, isn't it? The implicit assumption that it needs replacing, that we're losing something in its absence - that a great horrible void will be left in its wake. I see it as the complete opposite, akin to the eradication of cancer or the filling in of a pothole. The elimination of the Catholic Church is, in itself, an amelioration. No one would ask after a pothole is filled in, "well, what do we replace it with?"

expectationlost

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Its an oxymoron, isn't it? Being an atheist means you aren't convinced god or gods exist?

i meant more in ther philosphical aspect that you can't be 100% sure about anything.

jank

Galvasean wrote: »

Alright, I'm gonna say it because no one else seems willing to: There is no way you are an atheist. Give it up. you're fooling nobody coming out with cack like that.

Can you point out the post where I said I was?

jank

joseph brand wrote: »

If the church dies, we'll all become murderers, rapists, thieves and paedophiles. The world will be 'topsy-turvy'.
"Cats and dogs, living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!" :rolleyes:

jank

bluewolf wrote: »

he keeps saying he's not a christian i think it was inferred from that, though it's clear he isn't atheist

Good man! Someone that can clearly deduce that non-christian != atheist.
Very simple logic really!

jank

MagicMarker wrote: »

They're called laws.

It is more than laws. Is Scotland the same as England, since they share the same laws?
Laws are created by people who may share a similar value system and culture. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Corkfeen wrote: »

I really don't think the majority of Irish people share their ethics or values with the Catholic Church... If we did; divorce , the dreaded sodomy, contraceptives and Ivf would be illegal.... Ethics and the likes haven't developed solely from religion. In terms of the values of the church, they're rather warped and nonsensical the majority of the time.

OK,.......I never said they did either, why do you think I am defending 100% what john waters is saying, all I said that he had one point. I mentioned this before in another thread, what comes after religion and secularisation. What replaces it if nothing?

Nature abhors a vacuum. So instead of the usual tired and trusted ad-hominon attacks on all things religious, maybe we can actually have a discussion about this or is the forum incapable?

fisgon

jank wrote: »

what comes after religion and secularisation. What replaces it if nothing?

Nature abhors a vacuum.

You're operating on the false assumption that religion is somehow necessary for morality, or for a sense of shared values, and without religion we have a "vacuum".

This of course is nonsense. Human beings have values and morality with or without religion, they are formed by the necessities of living in a society with other people, and in more modern times by an awareness of a respect for human rights, for equality of treatment and equality before the law. Religions in many cases simply piggybacked on to already existing rules and laws and values, and codified them, and in many cases fossilised them.

There is no vacuum. Moving past fossilised, dead religions is part of human evolution. It's like leaving behind absolute monarchy, or racism, or belief in fairies. It's about growing up as a species.

Dades

^^ Discussion on.

jank wrote: »

Nature abhors a vacuum. So instead of the usual tired and trusted ad-hominon attacks on all things religious, maybe we can actually have a discussion about this or is the forum incapable?

Also, jank, if you think this place is incapable of discussion - spend a bit of time on the Skepchick forums (as discussed here in A&A).

Cienciano

This is being discussed on Ireland AM. Who did they get in to discuss it? A priest and head of the Catholic Association. Brilliant :rolleyes:

Dave!

Cienciano wrote: »

This is being discussed on Ireland AM. Who did they get in to discuss it? A priest and head of the Catholic Association. Brilliant :rolleyes:

:eek:

Was just about to switch it on there. Think I'll give it a miss...

Cienciano

Dave! wrote: »

:eek:

Was just about to switch it on there. Think I'll give it a miss...

That was a good ideal. It's crap. The quality of religion taught in school is one reason a priest just gave. It shouldn't even be taught in schools!