Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

Seanchai

Ghandee wrote: »

That's how they work in the north too though

It's a wonder the Orange Order isn't objecting to the green part in traffic lights, especially as it's clearly not only supportive of Irish freedom but provoking all the Fenians to advance.

Seanchai

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The signs are just territory marking

This, obviously this. Anybody who really thinks that a culture whose most popular organisation's raison d'être revolves around territory marking -ever hear of Orange marches? - is not engaging in blatant territory marking here is quite simply disconnected from reality.

At any rate, as somebody said they will all be removed by the locals along the border soon enough.

R P McMurphy

Is a bit of nonsense anyway as there is not a hope that the signs would remain in one piece. The places where the signs are located are not wanted in the locality and will continually be removed unless there is 24 hour security deployed and even at that their chances would remain slim

Guy:Incognito

Ghandee wrote: »

As previously pointed out, I'd imagine their could be outrage by unionists if signs were erected at Belfast or Derry airports saying 'welcome to the island of Ireland'
.

The Island of Ireland is not a country.

awec

Seanchai wrote: »

Great, then, let's just put a sign up saying "Welcome to the Occupied Six Counties", and place it in a loyalist heartland like Ballymena. Anybody annoyed by this clearly apolitical unprovocative move "should get their head felt". :rolleyes:

Stop being silly now.

It's not called the Occupied Six Counties, it is called Northern Ireland.

phog

SF should put one up as you cross the border from NI to the Republic saying you are now entering "Down Here".

mongdesade

waywardsun wrote: »

Should it say 'North-Eastern Ireland'.

Welcome to the 'North of Ireland'

Cienciano

haulagebasher wrote: »

By that logic we should be taking down all the brown signs that say "Welcome to County Cork/Waterford/whereever" just in case, god forbid, the people of the neighbouring County got offended.Too much PC pussyfooting around these days. The signs are informative only. IF they had a Union flag background or whatever, that might be provocative but there just small signs.Don't get me started on having an Irish translation on it. Shure even in the south, who ever actually reads the irish text on a road sign? - thats right, no-one. It just clutters up the sign and results in the English version being smaller and harder to read. Like it or Lump it English is our first language. Bi-lingual me arse. The cupla focal does not an irish speaker make.

In fact, a few gaeltacht areas have Irish only signs, and the locals had to paint the english name of the town underneath because no one knew the irish name!

Ghandee wrote: »

That's easy for you to say as your location is Dublin.

Some people in the border areas affected obviously are offended by it though.

As previously pointed out, I'd imagine their could be outrage by unionists if signs were erected at Belfast or Derry airports saying 'welcome to the island of Ireland'

Same argument.

If you can't even bear to see the name of the country you live in you should seriously think about moving. Doesn't matter what your passport says, the country is called Norn Iron.

Seanchai

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The Island of Ireland is not a country.

Oh Jesus. The most stupid thing written on Boards - ever.

awec

MagicSean wrote: »

If the term northern Ireland is so offensive then why has there been no uproar over the Northern Ireland tourism ads all over YouTube and the tv?

There were Visit Northern Ireland advertisement hoardings in Croke Park too the last time I was there.

If it's good enough for the GAA then it's good enough for the miserable sods in border areas who are "offended" (:pac:) by this.

Seanchai

awec wrote: »

It's not called the Occupied Six Counties, it is called Northern Ireland.

It is called the Occupied Six Counties. And that's being charitable.

Seanchai

Cienciano wrote: »

In fact, a few gaeltacht areas have Irish only signs, and the locals had to paint the english name of the town underneath because no one knew the irish name!

Er, wrong.

Guy:Incognito

Seanchai wrote: »

Oh Jesus. The most stupid thing written on Boards - ever.

How many airports have signs welcoming you to the geograhphical landmass as opposed to the name of the country?

alastair

Seanchai wrote: »

It is called the Occupied Six Counties. And that's being charitable.

Oh Jesus. The most stupid thing written on Boards - ever - Part II.

Cienciano

Seanchai wrote: »

Er, wrong.

Er, right.

Chuck Stone

Welcome to Gerrymanderland?

MagicSean

Seanchai wrote: »

This, obviously this. Anybody who really thinks that a culture whose most popular organisation's raison d'être revolves around territory marking -ever hear of Orange marches? - is not engaging in blatant territory marking here is quite simply disconnected from reality.

At any rate, as somebody said they will all be removed by the locals along the border soon enough.

And hopefully they will be prosecuted for their vandalism.

Seanchai wrote: »

Oh Jesus. The most stupid thing written on Boards - ever.

He is correct. Stupidity would be arguing it. Whatever you wish the case to be the fact is that Northern Ireland is a seperate political entity to the Republic. Maybe in the future they will be joined but probably not for a long time.

Seanchai wrote: »

It is called the Occupied Six Counties. And that's being charitable.

I've never heard any of the Sinn Fein members of the assembly call it that.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How many airports have signs welcoming you to the geograhphical landmass as opposed to the name of the country?

Australia?

Guy:Incognito

MagicSean wrote: »

Australia?

The country ?

Or the continent that has the same name?

Which is th esign referring too?My guess is the country.

lugha

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The signs are just territory marking

There is no need to territory mark. The territory of Northern Ireland is accepted, not by virtue of arbitrary decisions by the British 90 years ago but my the overwhelming decision of the Irish people 14 years ago to accept the two state status of the island of Ireland until a majority in Northern Ireland decide otherwise. Of course since ‘98, many Irish nationalists have demonstrated a rather curious understanding of what constitutes accepting the status quo, pretending as they like to do that the border isn’t there at all at all.

Rather than getting offended wouldn’t nationalists be better advised to persuade their fellow NI citizens to be rid of the border and then this issue wouldn’t arise? I wonder how tolerant they would be, in a united Ireland, of unionists pretending that a former British jurisdiction is still one? (For a sneak preview, refer to the thread on our ill-informed Australian sports’ pundit )

Seanchai

Cienciano wrote: »

If you can't even bear to see the name of the country you live in you should seriously think about moving. Doesn't matter what your passport says, the country is called Norn Iron.

Obviously, it's not. The country is called Ireland. The part of the country that is still currently under British rule belongs to a state currently named the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (formerly, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, formerly the United Kingdom of Great Britain). This is composed of 3 real countries, and a bit of a fourth real country, Ireland.

If you don't even know the difference between a state and a country you should seriously think about not contributing to political discussions.

MagicSean

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Welcome to Gerrymanderland?

The signs send you back in time too? That was witheld in the news report.

Seanchai

MagicSean wrote: »

He is correct. Stupidity would be arguing it. Whatever you wish the case to be the fact is that Northern Ireland is a seperate political entity to the Republic.

Your inability to appreciate something as basic as the difference between a political entity and a country is where you're going wrong here. The place currently known as "Northern Ireland" is indeed the former, but it never was and never will be the latter. It is only part of a country, Ireland.

Chuck Stone

MagicSean wrote: »

The signs send you back in time too? That was witheld in the news report.

The creation of the six counties was a grand exercise in gerrymandering.

I'll even link you to a wikipedia page that will explain 'gerrymandering' for you.

Here you go.

Seanchai

Cienciano wrote: »

Er, right.

I'll put this down to an inability on your part to understand what you are claiming. Because you will be able to post a reference supporting your (rather silly) claim, won't you?

Answer: Er, no.

Chuck Stone

lugha wrote: »

There is no need to territory mark.

Thanks. I'm glad you agree the signs are a stupid idea.

Seanchai

alastair wrote: »

Oh Jesus. The most stupid thing written on Boards - ever - Part II.

I'm absolutely certain, dear alastair, you've been called many things, even though you might be officially named something else.

Now, is your grasp of the Queen's English improving even slightly?

Ghandee

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The Island of Ireland is not a country.

No, but its undeniable that Belfast (insert any other name you want in the six counties) is on the island of Ireland.

What would be the problem if its factual?

Many will argue that 'northern Ireland' is a country, no one will argue that the six counties are on the island of Ireland.

That should keep all sides happy in the north so?

Guy:Incognito

Ghandee wrote: »

No, but its undeniable that Belfast (insert any other name you want in the six counties) is on the island of Ireland.

What would be the problem if its factual?

Many will argue that 'northern Ireland' is a country, no one will argue that the six counties are on the island of Ireland.

That should keep all sides happy in the north so?

If we're keeping all sides happy the sign would have to say "welcome to the world".

Course it would have to say that in all countries. might get confusing. Maybe just stick to the traditional way of telling visitors what country they are landing in by having the sign tell them the name of the country.

alastair

Seanchai wrote: »

I'll put this down to an inability on your part to understand what you are claiming. Because you will be able to post a reference supporting your (rather silly) claim, won't you?

Answer: Er, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dingle-An_Daingean_graffiti.jpg

lugha

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Thanks. I'm glad you agree the signs are a stupid idea.

Well my point was more about how those who object to the signs can justify their opposition, but you're welcome.

alastair

Seanchai wrote: »

I'm absolutely certain, dear alastair, you've been called many things, even though you might be officially named something else.

Now, is your grasp of the Queen's English improving even slightly?

I'm glad you're coming around to acknowledging your monarch at least.

Seanchai

alastair wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dingle-An_Daingean_graffiti.jpg

That by no means supports his claim, which I highlighted and which clearly you haven't read. Try again.

MagicSean

Seanchai wrote: »

Your inability to appreciate something as basic as the difference between a political entity and a country is where you're going wrong here. The place currently known as "Northern Ireland" is indeed the former, but it never was and never will be the latter. It is only part of a country, Ireland.

Your ability to accept reality is where you are going wrong. The island of Ireland is a single geographical landmass. At present there is no such thing as the country of Ireland. There is the country called the Republic of ireland and the country called Northern Ireland.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The creation of the six counties was a grand exercise in gerrymandering.

I'll even link you to a wikipedia page that will explain 'gerrymandering' for you.

Here you go.

No doubt it was a historical practice but are you suggesting that the current assembly, led by a republican, is a result of active gerrymandering?

Seanchai wrote: »

I'm absolutely certain, dear alastair, you've been called many things, even though you might be officially named something else.

Now, is your grasp of the Queen's English improving even slightly?

Doesn't take the Sinners long to get insulting when people don't accept their viewpoint does it?

Seanchai

alastair wrote: »

I'm glad you're coming around to acknowledging your monarch at least.

This makes no sense, unsurprisingly.

Ghandee

Cienciano wrote: »

If you can't even bear to see the name of the country you live in you should seriously think about moving. Doesn't matter what your passport says, the country is called Norn Iron.

The name of the country i live in is Ireland.

Passport also says I'm Irish too.


Sorry to disappoint you, no internet argument here today.

alastair

Seanchai wrote: »

That by no means supports his claim, which I highlighted and which clearly you haven't read. Try again.

No thanks - I'm happy with the evidence of my own eyes. What would you imagine the motivation for this vandalism might be - or the local plebicite to put the english name on the signposts? It's quite the mystery eh?

haulagebasher

Seanchai wrote: »

It is called the Occupied Six Counties. And that's being charitable.

Lets get one thing straigh here. Northern Ireland is not occupied or under British Occupation or colonised as some hardline RA heads would have you believe. NI is not part of the UK against it's will - in 1922 the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED HoC of NI chose to remain part of the UK, a FACT which so many on this island choose to ignore because it conflicts with their wretched dogma.
The nationalist groups could hardly complain that their opinions were ignored when they chose to abstain from parliament.

Riesen_Meal

alastair wrote: »

Seanchai wrote: »

That by no means supports his claim, which I highlighted and which clearly you haven't read. Try again.

No thanks - I'm happy with the evidence of my own eyes. What would you imagine the motivation for this vandalism might be - or the local plebicite to put the english name on the signposts? It's quite the mystery eh?

Normally successful troll is....

Not so successful.....

alastair

haulagebasher wrote: »

Lets get one thing straigh here. Northern Ireland is not "occupied" or under "British Occupation" or "colonised" as some hardline RA heads would have you believe. NI is not part of the UK against it's will - in 1922 the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED parliament of NI chose to remain part of the UK, a FACT which so many on this island choose to ignore because it conflicts with their wretched dogma.

And we all got to vote on the GFA - which re-asserted that we:

acknowledge that while a substantial section of the people in
Northern Ireland share the legitimate wish of a majority of the people of
the island of Ireland for a united Ireland, the present wish of a majority of
the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to
maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland’s status as part
of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it
would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save
with the consent of a majority of its people;

MagicSean

haulagebasher wrote: »

Lets get one thing straigh here. Northern Ireland is not "occupied" or under "British Occupation" or "colonised" as some hardline RA heads would have you believe. NI is not part of the UK against it's will - in 1922 the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED HoC of NI chose to remain part of the UK, a FACT which so many on this island choose to ignore because it conflicts with their wretched dogma.

Sorry I have to stop you there. In no way was any decision made in Northern Ireland before the 1990's democratic to the will of the people of Northern Ireland.

Ghandee

MagicSean wrote: »

Sorry I have to stop you there. In no way was any decision made in Northern Ireland before the 1990's democratic to the will of the people of Northern Ireland.

Tbh, i wouldn't have corrected him.


Funnier when a know it all turns into a 'knows sweet fcuk all'.

Chuck Stone

MagicSean wrote: »

No doubt it was a historical practice but are you suggesting that the current assembly, led by a republican, is a result of active gerrymandering?

You're missing the point. The six counties is itself a grand exercise in manipulative border drawing.

Gerrymandering certainly took place inside 'Gerrymanderland' yes. Is it still going on today? I'm not entirely sure although I do know that up until recently there was over-crowding in Nationalist housing estates while houses lay empty in estates belonging to the other tradition.

I believe the reasons for this anomaly were more to do with rigid 'peace lines' and security rather than the previous tactic of deliberate frustration by unionists.

Cienciano

Seanchai wrote: »

I'll put this down to an inability on your part to understand what you are claiming. Because you will be able to post a reference supporting your (rather silly) claim, won't you?

Answer: Er, no.

Out of interest, why do you think I'm wrong? Is it really outside the realms of belief that someone, say a tourist, won't know the irish translation of a town?

Seanchai

MagicSean wrote: »

Your ability to accept reality is where you are going wrong. The island of Ireland is a single geographical landmass. At present there is no such thing as the country of Ireland. There is the country called the Republic of ireland and the country called Northern Ireland.

More ignorance. There is no country named the 'Republic of Ireland'. There never was such a country. For that matter, there was and is no state with that name. Anybody with a basic understanding of the English language and Irish law would know this remedial fact.

The name of the state is Ireland. The name of the island is Ireland. The name of the country is Ireland. If the Orange Order and all the Protestant churches can be named after the country of Ireland, what is your problem?

MagicSean wrote: »

Doesn't take the Sinners long to get insulting when people don't accept their viewpoint does it?

If you're going to engage in this debate at least have the decency to stop accusing people of personal insults when they point out your (repeated) inability to understand the very words and claims you are making. Your (repeated) inability to appreciate nuance is central to the flaws of your argument.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Seanchai

Cienciano wrote: »

Out of interest, why do you think I'm wrong? Is it really outside the realms of belief that someone, say a tourist, won't know the irish translation of a town?

What was your claim? Go back, read it. Now, support it. Your claim: "no one knew the irish name!"

"Someone", by the way, is not the same as "no one".

Chuck Stone

Aquila wrote: »

Was there no consultation with the nationalist community?

Yes. As in - there was no consultation with the Nationalist community.

So much for shared future and all that.

Ghandee

Aquila wrote: »

Was there no consultation with the nationalist community?

From the article.

“There was no discussion whatsoever with the people in the communities and people living on the borders are impacted on by partition every day,” he said. ”They need to stop, slow down and talk to people.”

Flanagan said there will be a considerable amount of money spent replacing the signs that have been taken down and this money would be better spent on improving the quality of roads in Northern Ireland.

Seems only discussion was among the DUP and road service.

alastair

Seanchai wrote: »

More ignorance. There is no country named the 'Republic of Ireland'. There never was such a country. For that matter, there was and is no state with that name.

THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND ACT, 1948.

AN ACT TO REPEAL THE EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY (EXTERNAL RELATIONS) ACT, 1936 , TO DECLARE THAT THE DESCRIPTION OF THE STATE SHALL BE THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND, AND TO ENABLE THE PRESIDENT TO EXERCISE THE EXECUTIVE POWER OR ANY EXECUTIVE FUNCTION OF THE STATE IN OR IN CONNECTION WITH ITS EXTERNAL RELATIONS. [21st December, 1948.]

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/en/act/pub/0022/print.html#sec2

haulagebasher

^^^ I disagree with that. Nationalists were represented in the parliament and, again, Nationalists and their parties can hardly complain when THEY CHOSE to abstain from sending MPs to westminster. Whats the bloody point of standing for election if you don't take the seat? ???:-(As such they had no say in central government. They can hardly give out about it if they freely chose to throw away their right to vote in government.Such policies are hardly going to get you more votes next time around are they?As regards Nationalists/Catholics vadalising and destroying the signs or other symbols, that behaviour just plays right into the hands of the hardline Loyalists who will use it to further their opinion of Nationalist Catholics as mindless uncivilised savages. Similar to the way the dirty protests were used by Loyalists to portray the protesters as filthy savages becasue it suited them to put it that way.Sometimes, Nationalists are their own worst enemy.