Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

Defiler Of The Coffin

Captain Commie wrote: »

Personally I think the signs are needed, as the speed limits are different, 120km/h is not 70mp/h and it is easy to get caught out.

I take it is a long time since you've crossed the border then?

Captain Commie

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

I take it is a long time since you've crossed the border then?

10 days, maybe 2 week, not that it makes a difference

Defiler Of The Coffin

Captain Commie wrote: »

10 days, maybe 2 week, not that it makes a difference

Then why did you mention the speed limit signs then? They've been there for years, that's not what this thread is about.

Genghis Khan.

alastair wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/en/act/pub/0022/print.html#sec2

Alastair, why do you bother trying to argue with some who just can't see the reality? The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are two different countries. It is that simple.

And I don't see the big deal with these signs. Most foreigners who come into Northern Ireland from the Republic of Ireland are well aware of the the two countries. Many actually take advantage of it during Christmas for shopping when they flood up in thousands to shop for cheaper deals.

RA terrorist supporters might not like it but it is the truth.

Ghandee

/Awaits Guy:Incognito to tell us the constitution is wrong.....

Defiler Of The Coffin

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Alastair, why do you bother trying to argue with some who just can't see the reality? The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are two different countries. It is that simple.

Wrong, one is a country, the other is a statelet.

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

RA terrorist supporters might not like it but it is the truth

LOL

Captain Commie

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Then why did you mention the speed limit signs then? They've been there for years, that's not what this thread is about.

The thread is about welcome to NI signs, and at certain points, if there is no notice of the speed change then knowing you have crossed into NI will help you understand that you now have a different speed measurement. - simple stuff, no?

Genghis Khan.

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Wrong, one is a country, the other is a statelet.



LOL

Northern Ireland (Irish: Tuaisceart Éireann pronounced [ˈt̪ˠuəʃcəɾˠt̪ˠ ˈeːɾʲən̪ˠ] ( listen), Ulster Scots: Norlin Airlann or Norlin Airlan) is a part of the United Kingdom in the north-east of the island of Ireland. It is variously described as a country, province or region of the UK, amongst other terms

Move on and stop being bitter about it. Sinn Fein are perfectly happy to be working in a British government now. So no Nationalist should feel angry about this. Let Sinn Fein work for the British government and do the job they are paid to do by British tax payers.

Ghandee

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Alastair, why do you bother trying to argue with some who just can't see the reality? The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are two different countries. It is that simple.

And I don't see the big deal with these signs. Most foreigners who come into Northern Ireland from the Republic of Ireland are well aware of the the two countries. Many actually take advantage of it during Christmas for shopping when they flood up in thousands to shop for cheaper deals.

RA terrorist supporters might not like it but it is the truth.

I never considered the late Brian Lenihan a 'RA Terrorist supporter' myself.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055433014

Defiler Of The Coffin

Captain Commie wrote: »

The thread is about welcome to NI signs, and at certain points, if there is no notice of the speed change then knowing you have crossed into NI will help you understand that you now have a different speed measurement. - simple stuff, no?

Exactly, this thread is about 'Welcome to NI' signs, nothing to do with speed limit signs which are already installed on most if not all border crossings in both directions! Simple stuff yes?

haulagebasher

Can't say I am surprised by this at all, Sinn Fein will not be happy until it is a United Ireland, pure and simple.

And it is exactly this dogmatic attitude that shows that they are a fundamentlly undemocratic organisation. The people of NI and the ROI, overwhelmingly voted in the GFA referenda to support partition and supported the line that only by will of the majority could change the status quo. SF clearly disregard that democratic decision and their raison d'etre is to thrust unification upon the states whether the citizens want it or not. Like so many parties of their ilk, the are democratic as long as you agree with them.It is this attitude which makes many of us here in the south very concerned with the recent rise in the popularity of SF in elections which is a result of a chronic vacuum in conservative political parties in the south.I can fully understand the fear that protestants in NI would be in with a party as arrogant as SF in power

Defiler Of The Coffin

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Move on and stop being bitter about it. Sinn Fein are perfectly happy to be working in a British government now. So no Nationalist should feel angry about this. Let Sinn Fein work for the British government and do the job they are paid to do by British tax payers.

Have you ever posted on boards under a different username?

Genghis Khan.

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Have you ever posted on boards under a different username?

Nope.

Chuck Stone

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Have you ever posted on boards under a different username?

Consonant.
Vowel
Vowel
Consonant
Consonant
Vowel
Consonant
Consonant


Start the clock....

Genghis Khan.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Consonant.
Vowel
Vowel
Consonant
Consonant
Vowel
Consonant
Consonant


Start the clock....

Are you trying to be offensive?

TheChizler

Ghandee wrote: »

Please see above ^^^^

I never once implied that the official name was the Republic of Ireland. In my post I was asking did you accept that when people used this description that they were referring to the south, of officially, Ireland. The reason I'm not just using Ireland was when someone says the north isn't in Ireland you immediately get loads of posters saying of course it is, and they're right if you're referring to the body of rock surrounded by ocean, i.e. the island, but it was leading to all sorts of confusion.

I will continue to use the description 'Republic of Ireland' when referring to the southern country as it is not open to interpretation as the official name 'Ireland' is to some posters. It refers explicitly to the southern state of 26 counties, and cannot be construed as including the northern 6, which is factually part of the UK.

Chuck Stone

Sshhh

Cú Giobach

haulagebasher wrote: »

The people of NI and the ROI, overwhelmingly voted in the GFA referenda to support partition and supported the line that only by will of the majority could change the status quo.

Now I can't speak for anyone but myself but I think quite a sizeable number of people did not vote to support partition, but like myself many voted to "give peace a chance".
I do not support partition but I did vote for the GFA.

I can totally understand many in border communities not being happy with these signs, looking at them I can almost hear Paisly's voice saying the phrase, but personally I will just put them in the same bracket as "Welcome to The Sunny South East" or "Welcome to Connemara" signs.
But I do think "Welcome to The North" would have been less contentious.

Genghis Khan.

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Now I can't speak for anyone but myself but I think quite a sizeable number of people did not vote to support partition, but like myself many voted to "give peace a chance".
I do not support partition but I did vote for the GFA.

I can totally understand many in border communities not being happy with these signs, looking at them I can almost hear Paisly's voice saying the phrase, but personally I will just put them in the same bracket as "Welcome to The Sunny South East" or "Welcome to Connemara" signs.
But I do think "Welcome to The North" would have been less contentious.

When you voted for the GFA you recognised Northern Ireland. Which is why we have Dissidents because they rejected it based on Republican principle. If James Connelly was around today, he would call Sinn Fein traitors and anti Socialists.

Chuck Stone

If James Connolly was around today he'd be heading for 150 years old and not saying much of anything.

Dionysius2

IrishAm wrote: »

Put one up facing the opposite direction saying "Welcome to the Island of Ireland."

What would be wrong with saying "You are now entering the FREE STATE" ?

lugha

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Now I can't speak for anyone but myself but I think quite a sizeable number of people did not vote to support partition, but like myself many voted to "give peace a chance".
I do not support partition but I did vote for the GFA.

I think you possibly could chance it and elect to speak for them! There is little doubt that the virtually unanimous nationalist support for the GFA was not to support partition. But by so voting, they did implicitly accept it. And it is surely a touch dishonest to indicate via a poll that you accept something but then indicate clearly via word and deed that in fact you do not really accept it at all?

In any case, I again would say it is largely similar to nationalist demanding bilingual signs. Of course when nationalists do it, they are asserting their identity; when unionists do it they are just looking to stir things up. Personally I think the lot of them are eijits.

Cú Giobach

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

When you voted for the GFA you recognised Northern Ireland. Which is why we have Dissidents because they rejected it based on Republican principle.

There is a big difference in supporting partition and giving a concession that the status of NI is in the hands of its people in order to help facilitate peace.
You seem to be confusing "accepting" and "supporting". You can accept a political situation without supporting it.

If James Connelly was around today, he would call Sinn Fein traitors and anti Socialists.

Spoken to him recently have you? :rolleyes:

Cú Giobach

lugha wrote: »

There is little doubt that the virtually unanimous nationalist support for the GFA was not to support partition. But by so voting, they did implicitly accept it. And it is surely a touch dishonest to indicate via a poll that you accept something but then indicate clearly via word and deed that in fact you do not really accept it at all?.

Not in the slightest, I never supported the FF government a few years ago for example, but I did accept it because that was the will of the majority of people in a democratic election.

Sound of Silence

awec wrote: »

There were Visit Northern Ireland advertisement hoardings in Croke Park too the last time I was there.

If it's good enough for the GAA then it's good enough for the miserable sods in border areas who are "offended" (:pac:) by this.

I happen to be one of the miserable sods that you mentioned, Awec.

I don't know if I'm confused here but isn't it the job of local Government to verbalise the complaints of their Community?

If said Community happen to have expressed that they don't in fact want the signs to be put up, I wouldn't consider it sacrilege for their local Representatives to ya' know do something about it.

I also wouldn't consider especially abnormal for a Unionist Representative to protest the erection of bilingual signs in sensitive areas.

Then again, the last time I spoke to you, you happened to be expressing your support for what you described as misunderstood Orange Order marches. Local people who happen to oppose such marches passing through their Community often find themselves hitting their heads against a brick wall.

It just shows that in Northern Ireland, some people just don't care what a Community thinks.

Seanchai

TheChizler wrote: »

Bear in mind I think most people in the thread would assume we're using the definition of country in the context of a state or nation, or territory of a nation. Not as a landmass or geographical definition. Purely political.

Would you accept that when people say the Republic of Ireland that they are referring to the south? It's purely to aid clarity.

No, they wouldn't assume 'country' is 'purely political'. There's a name for a landmass which is 'purely political'. That name is 'state', not country. 'Country' means something more, much more.

Obviously, the 26-county state is not a nation. The island of Ireland is the nation, and the English/British were quite happy with this situation from 1155 when the English pope, Nicholas Breakspear, granted Ireland (not part of it) to the king of England until December 1920 when the British state overthrew democracy to break up the Irish nation which they had accepted for all the centuries before democracy ran into it in 1918.

It's contrived to claim that the country of Ireland stopped existing in 1920 when its extent over the entire island no longer suited the British. Now that is a political claim.

TheChizler

Seanchai wrote: »

TheChizler wrote: »

Bear in mind I think most people in the thread would assume we're using the definition of country in the context of a state or nation, or territory of a nation. Not as a landmass or geographical definition. Purely political.

Would you accept that when people say the Republic of Ireland that they are referring to the south? It's purely to aid clarity.

No, they wouldn't assume 'country' is 'purely political'. There's a name for a landmass which is 'purely political'. That name is 'state', not country. 'Country' means something more, much more.

Obviously, the 26-county state is not a nation. The island of Ireland is the nation, and the English/British were quite happy with this situation from 1155 when the English pope, Nicholas Breakspear, granted Ireland (not part of it) to the king of England until December 1920 when the British state overthrew democracy to break up the Irish nation which they had accepted for all the centuries before democracy ran into it in 1918.

It's contrived to claim that the country of Ireland stopped existing in 1920 when its extent over the entire island no longer suited the British. Now that is a political claim.

You know exactly what I mean. You're subbing in your own definitions against commonly accepted and official ones. When I refer to a nation or country I refer to the 26 counties, or 6 counties, not both. Are you saying that the republic of Ireland is not a country in itself?

awec

Sound of Silence wrote: »

I happen to be one of the miserable sods that you mentioned, Awec.

I don't know if I'm confused here but isn't it the job of local Government to verbalise the complaints of their Community?

If said Community happen to have expressed that they don't in fact want the signs to be put up, I wouldn't consider it sacrilege for their local Representatives to ya' know do something about it.

I also wouldn't consider especially abnormal for a Unionist Representative to protest the erection of bilingual signs in sensitive areas.

Then again, the last time I spoke to you, you happened to be expressing your support for what you described as misunderstood Orange Order marches. Local people who happen to oppose such marches passing through their Community often find themselves hitting their heads against a brick wall.

It just shows that in Northern Ireland, some people just don't care what a Community thinks.

You are offended by a sign that says "Welcome to Northern Ireland" ? Really?

What have bilingual signs got to do with this too? The irish language doesn't belong to the nationalist community despite it being politicised by Sinn Fein.

I never expressed my support for these marches either (definitely not!), I was just throwing a few informed opinions into one of the many ill informed discussions on the subject here.

Seanchai

TheChizler wrote: »

Are you saying that the republic of Ireland is not a country in itself?

Of course it's not. And I quote from the preamble of the constitution of Ireland (updated March 2012):

'And seeking to promote the common good, with
due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so
that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be
assured, true social order attained, the unity of our
country restored....'

Or Article 4 of the same Constitution: 'The name of the state is ... Ireland'

Ireland, the country, remains divided. For the moment it is divided into two states.

TheChizler

Seanchai wrote: »

TheChizler wrote: »

Are you saying that the republic of Ireland is not a country in itself?

Of course it's not. And I quote from the preamble of the constitution of Ireland (updated March 2012):

'And seeking to promote the common good, with
due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so
that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be
assured, true social order attained, the unity of our
country restored....'

Or Article 4 of the same Constitution: 'The name of the state is ... Ireland'

Ireland, the country, remains divided. For the moment it is divided into two states.

Ok I'll rephrase, are you saying the republic of Ireland/Ireland/the 32 counties/Eire/the south/the Irish free state is not a country?

alastair

Seanchai wrote: »

Of course it's not. And I quote from the preamble of the constitution of Ireland (updated March 2012):

'And seeking to promote the common good, with
due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so
that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be
assured, true social order attained, the unity of our
country restored....'

Or Article 4 of the same Constitution: 'The name of the state is ... Ireland'

Ireland, the country, remains divided. For the moment it is divided into two states.

I think you'll find that any claim to include NI in the 'National Territory' of the Republic of Ireland went the way of articles 2 and 3. And we democratically agreed to that in the GFA.

Melanoma

haulagebasher wrote: »

Can one not identify oneself as irish and British also? And if not why not? Just like one can consider onself English/Welsh/Scottish and also British.I consider myself irish and British you know. Just becasue I am pro-union does not automatically mean that I am anti-irish - I'm not anti irish at all.As for the signs, SF are just at it again. Ignore them. Only harliner Republicans will be phased by this, no-one else cares really.
The level of anti-British bile in this country is sickening sometimes. I blame in large part the education system in the south which is totally biased and rams Republican/Nationalist propaganda into kids. Thus it's no surprise there are so many armchair/barstool republicans about. I should know, my primary school headmaster in Tipperary was a pure RA head.

I am a teacher and I can honestly say that there is not an anti British agenda in schools. There are those that identify with others based on anti-British sentiment and pro-republican but its really not something the vast majority of people including teachers have much time for. Your old teacher is just one person. For example a teacher I know went to England to see the last wedding Charles eldest son. She got a bit of slagging of one or two teachers but nothing much while most people were just interested in hearing from her although they might not have been bothered to watch it themselves (just as many people in the UK did not). In terms of history the war of independence is covered as is the famine etc. These are historical facts about the country but if the Unionist community feel there are aspects not covered accurately or omitted then maybe this something that needs to be addressed. We have a shared history and it should reflect that. Really teachers get dumped on enough without this generalisation.

Fenian Army

lol, if anything there is an anti republican section 31 style agenda in schools if the nonsense textbook on "Northern Ireland" is anything to go by.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

I think you'll find that any claim to include NI in the 'National Territory' of the Republic of Ireland went the way of articles 2 and 3. And we democratically agreed to that in the GFA.

Just read it today did we Al?

Its funny how you used the statute to back up your claim earlier

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80126623&postcount=505

And again here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80127126&postcount=519

And finally here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80126623&postcount=505


Trolling not going well tonight.?

LordSutch

The term UK & Ireland is certainly used quite extinsively these days, which leads me to believe that Ireland in this context means the ROI (seeing as the UK includes Northern Ireland), which takes us neatly back to the road signs again, which I think are a sensible idea, especially for tourist information and for all the reasons I have already mentioned in post #290 and #422

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

Just read it today did we Al?

Its funny how you used the statute to back up your claim earlier

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80126623&postcount=505

And again here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80127126&postcount=519

And finally here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80126623&postcount=505


Trolling not going well tonight.?

Current legislation not sitting well with you? Ah well.

Fenian Army

LordSutch wrote: »

The term UK & Ireland is certainly used quite extinsively these days, which leads me to believe that Ireland in this context means the ROI (seeing as the UK includes Northern Ireland), which takes us neatly back to the road signs again, which I think are a sensible idea, especially for tourist information and for all the reasons I have already mentioned in post #290 and #422

We all know you are just desperate to see all of Ireland "in the UK" so spare us your "its sensible and helpful to have the signs" facade.

Sound of Silence

awec wrote: »

You are offended by a sign that says "Welcome to Northern Ireland" ? Really?

I'm not offended by the signs. I'm offended by the fact that the views of an entire Community are essentially disregarded by posters on this forum.

One would assume that local issues should be addressed by local people.

What have bilingual signs got to do with this too? The irish language doesn't belong to the nationalist community despite it being politicised by Sinn Fein.

You honestly can't see the parallels?

The very man who proposed the "Welcome to Northern Ireland" signs, Danny Kennedy, also expressed his complete opposition to erecting bilingual signs. The signs that were proposed also happened to be Welcoming signs, but for Villages and Towns, not a Statelet.

This was despite the fact that a Public consultation found that there was essentially no opposition to the proposal.

I never expressed my support for these marches either (definitely not!), I was just throwing a few informed opinions into one of the many ill informed discussions on the subject here.

You're more of an apologist than a supporter.

If I recall correctly you attributed quite a lot of the violence to Sinn Fein's support of those living on the Garvaghy Road, which you argued made the Parades contentious. This, despite the fact that the same parade had been contentious for at least the last 140 years.

You said: "Sinn Fein set about a strategy of making marches contentious, and the Orange Order were stupid enough to fall for their little game. The Ardoyne is another one."

This is why it's important to foster good Community relations. You can't simply ignore a whole group of people and just hope that the problem goes away. There has to be at least some level of communication.

Seanchai

alastair wrote: »

I think you'll find that any claim to include NI in the 'National Territory' of the Republic of Ireland went the way of articles 2 and 3. And we democratically agreed to that in the GFA.

Stop trolling with chimerical points. I think you'll find that I've quoted the March 2012 edition of Bunreacht na hÉireann not the post-GFA 1998 version. According to it, Ireland, the state, is expressly only part of Ireland the country.

But nice to see you're so supportive of the Sinn Féin promoted proposal to abandon Articles 2 & 3 back in 1998 in exchange for reducing the British/colonial nature of the Six County statelet.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

Current legislation not sitting well with you? Ah well.

You made the mistake Al.

You claimed (wrongly) on at least three septate posts, from up on your high horse, that the republic of Ireland was the official name of Ireland.

Being a supporter and defender of the O.O it didn't surprise me that you didn't look up the constitution before posting your 'facts'.

When you make a a mistake, their is no shame in admitting it.

LordSutch

Fenian Army wrote: »

We all know you are just desperate to see all of Ireland "in the UK" so spare us your "its sensible and helpful to have the signs" facade.

Now that's just silly^ I think no such thing, but I have given my reasons as mentioned above. Suggest you read my posts again #290 and #422 and think how the proposed signage might be of genuine help to visitors to this island.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

Now that's just silly^ I think no such thing, .....

So you were fibbing about being a southern unionist?

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

Current legislation not sitting well with you? Ah well.

The current legislation sits perfectly well with me Al.

I actually mentioned it in my first post of this thread.

Keep up son.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80113528&postcount=57

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

You made the mistake Al.

You claimed (wrongly) on at least three septate posts, from up on your high horse, that the republic of Ireland was the official name of Ireland.

Yeah - it's only the official 'description' of the state - and the term that the Dept of Foreign Affairs - amongst other state bodies are quite happy to use when referencing the state - alongside using 'Northern Ireland' of course.

alastair

Seanchai wrote: »

Stop trolling with chimerical points. I think you'll find that I've quoted the March 2012 edition of Bunreacht na hÉireann not the post-GFA 1998 version. According to it, Ireland, the state, is expressly only part of Ireland the country.

As is the Nation - in geographic terms, as defined in the replacement articles 2 & 3.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

Yeah - it's only the official 'description' of the state - and one that the Dept of Foreign Affairs - amongst other state bodies are quite happy to use - along with 'Northern Ireland' (as demonstrated).

So its not the official name of the country? Great, do we can move along.

Incidentally....

I described a classic car i seen today as 'cool'

Its official name was Ford Cortina though.

Any similarity?

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

So you were fibbing about being a southern unionist?

Oh no not at all, but the reality is . . . .

I guess you too hold fast to your IRA/Republican beliefs.

Fenian Army

LordSutch wrote: »

Now that's just silly^ I think no such thing, but I have given my reasons as mentioned above. Suggest you read my posts again #290 and #422 and think how the proposed signage might be of genuine help to visitors to this island.

Haha, good one.

Is it necessary to go digging back through your posts?

You are a "southern unionist" who,by his own admission, would ave fought against those who brought some semblance of freedom to Ireland.

Seanchai

Ghandee wrote: »

So its not the official name of the country? Great, do we can move along.

Incidentally....

I described a classic car i seen today as 'cool'

Its official name was Ford Cortina though.

Any similarity?

hehe. Touché. Game, set and match to the Irish. I do wish all the British nationalists here would brush up on their command of the Queen's English. Quite disappointing.

Ghandee

LordSutch wrote: »

Oh no not at all, but the reality is . . . .

I guess you too hold fast to your IRA/Republican beliefs.

The IRA haven't been mentioned on this thread (to my knowledge) too much except by the 'Shinner bashers' which i find odd.

When in a corner......