Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

Seanchai

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Defending minorities on the Island of Ireland is perfectly rational. You might not like that but some people like defending other people.

Yeah, I distinctly recall Harold Gracey saying something like that back in 1998 when he claimed a right to march up his "King's [sic] highway" in Drumcree the morning after the three Quinn children were burned alive in their beds by Orange Order supporters in Ballymoney.


Because "defending minorities" is always a great thing, right?

Chuck Stone

lugha wrote: »

But it is hardly "putting up" with an arrangement if you actually voted in support of it

There was a nasty conflict to quell and that was perhaps the principle driving force behind voting yes to the GFA for most. The GFA is not akin to some sort of biblical map to utopia. The GFA is not the end-game for republicans, rather, a step on the path to their ideological goal of a UI.

Genghis Khan.

Seanchai wrote: »

Yeah, I distinctly recall Harold Gracey saying something like that back in 1998 when he claimed a right to march up his "King's [sic] highway" in Drumcree the morning after the three Quinn children were burned alive in their beds by Orange Order supporters in Ballymoney.


Because "defending minorities" is always a great thing, right?

If you want to discriminate against a minority (Orange Order) within a minority in Ulster, that is up to you. I refuse to do that.

Chuck Stone

MagicSean wrote: »

So you see no need to inform people that they are under different laws?

What laws pertain to people who are driving on a road other than driving laws? The laws line is a total red herring. 'Welcome to the UK NI' is not a leaflet on the differences in laws.

Were not talking about travelling from the Netherlands to Saudi Arabia here our laws are pretty damn similar.

Sound of Silence

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Defending minorities on the Island of Ireland is perfectly rational. You might not like that but some people like defending other people.

Sure I thought Ulster Loyalists had nothing to do with the highlighted part. Sure there's a border seperating you from us savage Papists, Genghis.

Awk sure, Defending minorities has always been very important to Unionists. Sure Northern Ireland is the rebel State, like you told me earlier. It's all about maintaining the rights of people and Counties, just like you said.

They had there best chance to display these positive and admirable qualities when they inherited the North East, eh.

Sure we can always dream can't we, Genghis. Otherwise reality will hit us like a ton of bricks.

Genghis Khan.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Sure I thought Ulster Loyalists had nothing to do with the highlighted part. Sure there's a border seperating you from us savage Papists, Genghis.

Awk sure, Defending minorities has always been very important to Unionists. Sure Northern Ireland is the rebel State, like you told me earlier. It's all about maintaining the rights of people and Counties, just like you said.

They had there best chance to display these positive and admirable qualities when they inherited the North East, eh.

Sure we can always dream can't we, Genghis. Otherwise reality will hit us like a ton of bricks.

Why are you talking about things which happened in the past?. If people wish to remain in the Union and keep six counties rights away from Dublin, that is up to them. And most people know it is an Island.

MagicSean

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What laws pertain to people who are driving on a road other than driving laws? The laws line is a total red herring. 'Welcome to the UK NI' is not a leaflet on the differences in laws.

Were not talking about travelling from the Netherlands to Saudi Arabia here our laws are pretty damn similar.

Similar is not the same. You seem to be lumping all driving laws in with speeding laws. That is very simplistic. For example the tax and insurance laws are different as are the procedures for fixed charge penalties.

Defiler Of The Coffin

MagicSean wrote: »

Similar is not the same. You seem to be lumping all driving laws in with speeding laws. That is very simplistic. For example the tax and insurance laws are different as are the procedures for fixed charge penalties.

People should know this stuff in advance. 'Welcome to NI' is hardly going to help them much

Ghandee

Well, this thread has went exceptionally well for magic Sean, but yet he still keeps digging.

Ignorance is bliss.

alastair

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What laws pertain to people who are driving on a road other than driving laws?

'You are now entering a no-beans-in-fry region'?

Some kind of May McFettridge / Mrs Brown Checkpont Charlie crossover arrangement?

'Sniper at work'?

The list is endless.

Seanchai

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

If people wish to remain in the Union and keep six counties rights away from Dublin, that is up to them.

Given that a majority of the population in not only Fermanagh and Tyrone (as was the case in both counties in 1918) but also Armagh and Derry is nationalist, I'm sure you'll present a really democratic understanding of "them". Right?

Defiler Of The Coffin

Ghandee wrote: »

Well, this thread has went exceptionally well for magic Sean, but yet he still keeps digging.

Ignorance is bliss.

NI threads always end well for everyone involved

alastair

Seanchai wrote: »

Given that a majority of the population in not only Fermanagh and Tyrone (as was the case in both counties in 1918) but also Armagh and Derry is nationalist, I'm sure you'll present a really democratic understanding of "them". Right?

Last I heard, you don't have a federal county system - or the democratic facility for any county to secede, so (as voted by the entire island), the democratic franchise of the entire territory of NI is understood as 'them' (the NI electorate).

Chuck Stone

MagicSean wrote: »

Similar is not the same. You seem to be lumping all driving laws in with speeding laws. That is very simplistic. For example the tax and insurance laws are different as are the procedures for fixed charge penalties.

WTF?

What you'd need for people to know the ins and outs is a chain of 'Magic Sean's stop and educate centres' rather than a 'Welcome to the UK NI' signs.

I understand that you'd like to talk about the differences in laws but that's really not the issue here.

UKJon

What annoys me about this whole thing is, Google Street View is going to be wrong now.

philologos

Seanchai wrote: »

awec wrote: »

Anyone provoked by a sign that says "Welcome to Northern Ireland" should go and get their head felt. Some people must lead absolutely miserable lives if this sort of thing annoys them. :pac:

Great, then, let's just put a sign up saying "Welcome to the Occupied Six Counties", and place it in a loyalist heartland like Ballymena. Anybody annoyed by this clearly apolitical unprovocative move "should get their head felt". :rolleyes:

I can't believe nonsense like this is still considered a good argument.

Blaming people for what their ancestors did in the 1600's is silly.

Sound of Silence

MagicSean wrote: »

Similar is not the same. You seem to be lumping all driving laws in with speeding laws. That is very simplistic. For example the tax and insurance laws are different as are the procedures for fixed charge penalties.

And all this information will be displayed on the "Welcome to Northern Ireland" sign? In small print, I would have to assume.

These truly are the perils of International travel. I really don't know how I managed to cross the border so many times without knowing how much a fixed charged penalty in the South would cost me.

You seem to be insisting that any travellers who might happen to cross the border should spend a serious amount of time researching the difference between our two countries in terms of Tax and Insurance laws. If they didn't bother their arse doing this, do you honestly think the sign will help them?

On the topic of the sign itself, do you not believe that it is the right of a Local Community to voice their opinion on the erection of these signs?

Sound of Silence

philologos wrote: »

I can't believe nonsense like this is still considered a good argument.

Blaming people for what their ancestors did in the 1600's is silly.

What has his quote got to do with the 1600's?

Seanchai

philologos wrote: »

I can't believe nonsense like this is still considered a good argument.

Blaming people for what their ancestors did in the 1600's is silly.

Nonsense? The connection between the 1600s and that quote is what, exactly?

philologos

Seanchai wrote: »

Nonsense? The connection between the 1600s and that quote is what, exactly?

Claiming that people are occupiers for living in the land their grew up in is farcical to say the least.

Migration happens throughout history. For example, there was one point in history where Kosovo was predominately Serb, now it is overwhelmingly Albanian. That's not occupation, most people want Kosovo to be independent.

Likewise, migration happened in the case of Northern Ireland. You're not going to shift Unionists back to Britain, as much as you might like to.

The reality is that most people, including most people from a Roman Catholic background in NI want to stay in the union.

From an article in the Irish Times:

The Northern Ireland Life and Times survey found that just one in three Catholics (33 per cent) wants a united Ireland, while 52 per cent want the North to stay in the UK, with 46 per cent of Catholics happy with the devolved arrangements and 6 per cent favouring a return to direct rule from Westminster

Sound of Silence

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Why are you talking about things which happened in the past?. If people wish to remain in the Union and keep six counties rights away from Dublin, that is up to them. And most people know it is an Island.

Because some people simply talk about the past; Others live in it.

I think I might a quote a little post you made:

"I hope some one puts a knapsack on their back and kills these Republican terrorists. Victory to the Red hand!"

Also, what has the highlighted part got to do with Northern Ireland's less than reputable approach to it's much beloved minorities? Keeping Counties rights away from Dublin? Jasus, they certainly did a thorough job of that! It was a couple of decades before these rights were discovered again!

laoch na mona

this threads always become SF hating circle jerks

Genghis Khan.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Because some people simply talk about the past; Others live in it.

I think I might a quote a little post you made:

"I hope some one puts a knapsack on their back and kills these Republican terrorists. Victory to the Red hand!"

Also, what has the highlighted part got to do with Northern Ireland's less than reputable approach to it's much beloved minorities? Keeping Counties rights away from Dublin? Jasus, they certainly did a thorough job of that! It was a couple of decades before these rights were discovered again!

Like yourself? The majority of people in Northern Ireland support the link with the Union. That is all there is to it. You can't deny facts. The rights of those counties to belong to that Union are being upheld and away from Dublin.

Sound of Silence

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Like yourself? The majority of people in Northern Ireland support the link with the Union. That is all there is to it. You can't deny facts. The rights of those counties to belong to that Union are being upheld and away from Dublin.

Life myself?

I'm sorry but I don't recall posting anything about murdering people.

As I said, I just talk about the issues. I don't live the conflict.

Genghis Khan.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Life myself?

I'm sorry but I don't recall posting anything about murdering people.

As I said, I just talk about the issues. I don't live the conflict.

Thankfully not many people care about terrorists.

Carlos_Ray

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Like yourself? The majority of people in Northern Ireland support the link with the Union. That is all there is to it. You can't deny facts. The rights of those counties to belong to that Union are being upheld and away from Dublin.

I wonder will you be such a defender of "democracy" when the shoe is on the other foot. It won't happen in the near future, but the reunification of Ireland is inevitable.

MagicSean

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

People should know this stuff in advance. 'Welcome to NI' is hardly going to help them much

It lets them know they are in Northern Ireland where the laws are different. Knowing the different laws is pointless if you don't know when you are in each country.

Ghandee wrote: »

Well, this thread has went exceptionally well for magic Sean, but yet he still keeps digging.

Ignorance is bliss.

Not sure what you are getting at here. What do you mean by went well?

Chuck Stone wrote: »

WTF?

What you'd need for people to know the ins and outs is a chain of 'Magic Sean's stop and educate centres' rather than a 'Welcome to the UK NI' signs.

I understand that you'd like to talk about the differences in laws but that's really not the issue here.

Yes it is. You want to make it about the division between nationalist and unionist and completely avoid the practicality of the signage. It's your kind of divisive attitude that is standing in the way of reunification. The sooner you realise that the better.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

And all this information will be displayed on the "Welcome to Northern Ireland" sign? In small print, I would have to assume.

These truly are the perils of International travel. I really don't know how I managed to cross the border so many times without knowing how much a fixed charged penalty in the South would cost me.

You seem to be insisting that any travellers who might happen to cross the border should spend a serious amount of time researching the difference between our two countries in terms of Tax and Insurance laws. If they didn't bother their arse doing this, do you honestly think the sign will help them?

On the topic of the sign itself, do you not believe that it is the right of a Local Community to voice their opinion on the erection of these signs?

The sign will tell them they have entered a different jurisdiction. Like i said above, there is no point in them knowing the different laws if they can't tell what country they are in. Knowing the different road tax and car insurance laws is not too difficult but knowing where an invisible border is can be quite difficult, especially for someone who's not from the area.

And no, I don't believe it is for the community to decide what signs go up. Certain signs are just necessary. Go to your local council and object to your nearest directional signpost and see what they say.

Sound of Silence

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Thankfully not many people care about terrorists.

You're getting really tiresome.

Any eejit could look at your post history and deduce that you're a militant Loyalist.

Genghis Khan.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

You're getting really tiresome.

Any eejit could look at your post history and deduce that you're a militant Loyalist.

Think what you like. Lets just stick to the topic which is about these road signs which is very important for the border counties.

I wonder will you be such a defender of "democracy" when the shoe is on the other foot. It won't happen in the near future, but the reunification of Ireland is inevitable.

We have heard this nonsense many times. Don't worry, we will soon be in a Federal Europe. The Irish Republic is broke and people are trying to get out. There is nothing to join.

Carlos_Ray

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

We have heard this nonsense many times. Don't worry, we will soon be in a Federal Europe. The Irish Republic is broke and people are trying to get out. There is nothing to join.

Rubbish.

You're part of a dying breed on this island. Sorry but I can't say you'll be missed.

Genghis Khan.

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Rubbish.

You're part of a dying breed on this island. Sorry but I can't say you'll be missed.

Ok, so you aren't broke and thousands of young people aren't leaving every year. Time to face reality, the game is up.

Sound of Silence

MagicSean wrote: »

The sign will tell them they have entered a different jurisdiction. Like i said above, there is no point in them knowing the different laws if they can't tell what country they are in. Knowing the different road tax and car insurance laws is not too difficult but knowing where an invisible border is can be quite difficult, especially for someone who's not from the area.

They wouldn't be able to tell which Country they're in? I'll ignore the fact that the MPH/KPH sign is a clear indicator of what side of the border they're on and the fact that such signs happen to appear everywhere, not just in select locations like the "Welcome to.." sign.

And no, I don't believe it is for the community to decide what signs go up. Certain signs are just necessary. Go to your local council and object to your nearest directional signpost and see what they say.

Some signs happen to be necessary. The sign in question happens not to be, which is clearly indicated by the fact that it won't appear on every stretch of road that happens to cross the border.

Fenian Army

As if an ideological member of the heavy gang like yourself wants to see reunification MagicSean.

I wish people like yourself and Lord Sutch would be honest.

You have an anti SF agenda which is why you started this thread as an attack on a SF member. I don't see anything wrong with his comments, he said that people should have been consulted and seen as they didn't putting up signs was a waste of money as anyone could see that they would be removed by residents.

You don't give a damn about tourists, or giving people information. (signs dealing with that are of course already there)

Carlos_Ray

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Ok, so you aren't broke and thousands of young people aren't leaving every year. Time to face reality, the game is up.

Its called a recession. Britain are experiencing the same thing,as are countless other countries. It's cyclical, an unfortunate part of being part of an independent capitalist country.

You on the other hand are facing an entirely different problem. A problem that is not cyclical. Unfortunately for you, no amount of economic recovery can solve your problem. i.e that far more Catholic children are currently enrolled in primary schools in Northern Ireland than Protestant.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0104/1224309780877.html

That my friend is the only "reality" you should be concerned with. Don't attempt to understand economic issue which you evidently know little about.

I feel that subconsciously you know the "game is up" as you put it. That's why you opted to join an Irish discussion board site. You won't admit it but you are taking the first ( no doubt difficult steps) of mixing with your future compatriots. We are a friendly bunch, don't be afraid.

Míshásta

How about a little lateral thinking to make those signs acceptable to all - bilingual signs.

English: Welcome to Northern Ireland

Irish: Fáilte go dtí na Sé Chondae

That would bring a little balance to the situation - both sides equally annoyed.

Sound of Silence

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Think what you like. Lets just stick to the topic which is about these road signs which is very important for the border counties.

I'm sorry.

I struggle to stay on topic when some random militant Loyalist wanders into a thread claiming to be interested in what's important to the Border Counties.

The first time you spoke to me on the forum, you also managed to spin yourself into a real rage while you spouted off what you felt was important to the people of Dublin.

I hesitate to mention another random location before you claim to be an expert on the local population.

You'll really want to create a new profile if you want to gain some integrity. Calling for people to me murdered in your second post ain't the best way to set the basis for a non-partisan identity on this forum.

Good luck nonetheless.

Genghis Khan.

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Its called a recession. Britain are experiencing the same thing,as are countless other countries. It's cyclical, an unfortunate part of being part of an independent capitalist country.

You on the other hand are facing an entirely different problem. A problem that is not cyclical. Unfortunately for you, no amount of economic recovery can solve your problem. i.e that far more Catholic children are currently enrolled in primary schools in Northern Ireland than Protestant.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0104/1224309780877.html

That my friend is the only "reality" you should be concerned with. Don't attempt to understand economic issue which you evidently know little about.

I feel that subconsciously you know the "game is up" as you put it. That's why you opted to join an Irish discussion board site. You won't admit it but you are taking the first ( no doubt difficult steps) of mixing with your future compatriots. We are a friendly bunch, don't be afraid.

Carlos, no one here is interested in your bigoted religious point scoring system. Latest polls amongst Catholics see a huge rise in support for the Union and want to stay in the Union.

But that is irrelevant as far as this thread is going.

Chuck Stone

MagicSean wrote: »

Yes it is. You want to make it about the division between nationalist and unionist and completely avoid the practicality of the signage.

You're making less and less sense here. A sign saying 'Welcome to NI' will not educate people on the differences in laws and that's certainly not the purpose, or function, of the recently erected ones.

It's your kind of divisive attitude that is standing in the way of reunification.

My objection to a unionist minister not consulting with the local community on provocative and useless signing is standing in the way of reunification? What a truly bizarre thing to say.

Sound of Silence

Míshásta wrote: »

How about a little lateral thinking to make those signs acceptable to all - bilingual signs.

English: Welcome to Northern Ireland

Irish: Fáilte go dtí na Sé Chondae

That would bring a little balance to the situation - both sides equally annoyed.

At least you're thinking a little deeper about it. However, it would still be entirely up to the local Community whether they considered it to be an acceptable compromise.

Genghis Khan.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

I'm sorry.

I struggle to stay on topic when some random militant Loyalist wanders into a thread claiming to be interested in what's important to the Border Counties.

The first time you spoke to me on the forum, you also managed to spin yourself into a real rage while you spouted off what you felt was important to the people of Dublin.

I hesitate to mention another random location before you claim to be an expert on the local population.

You'll really want to create a new profile if you want to gain some integrity. Calling for people to me murdered in your second post ain't the best way to set the basis for a non-partisan identity on this forum.

Good luck nonetheless.

Like I said, no one cares about terrorists. If you want to support the dissidents, that is up to you. Most of this forum hates them.

Carlos_Ray

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Carlos, no one here is interested in your bigoted religious point scoring system. Latest polls amongst Catholics see a huge rise in support for the Union and want to stay in the Union.

But that is irrelevant as far as this thread is going.

Lol keep telling yourself that buddy. I think you'll find that you are the person that nobody here is interested in. Every single one of your posts on this site are related to the one topic. It seems to me you're a little insecure about something....hmmm wonder what that could be.... lol

Genghis Khan.

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Lol keep telling yourself that buddy. I think you'll find that you are the person that nobody here is interested in. Every single one of your posts on this site are related to the one topic. It seems to me your a little insecure about something....hmmm wonder what that could be.... lol

If you want to ignore the polls that is up to you but the rise in support for the Union is growing amongst Catholics in Northern Ireland. Why have you such a problem with that? Who cares what religion any one is but you seem to care for some odd reason. Bizarre.

Sound of Silence

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Like I said, no one cares about terrorists. If you want to support the dissidents, that is up to you. Most of this forum hates them.

I'm supporting the dissidents? What in the name of God are you talking about?

Such an insane claim requires an equally insane amount of evidence that I'm sure you will be able to provide.

I wasn't the one calling for people to be killed. :rolleyes:

Carlos_Ray

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

If you want to ignore the polls that is up to you but the rise in support for the Union is growing amongst Catholics in Northern Ireland. Why have you such a problem with that? Who cares what religion any one is but you seem to care for some odd reason. Bizarre.

I love how the militant unionist is now saying " who cares about religion" just because the Catholics (traditionally nationalist) are becoming the majority.
The twisting and turning of a desperate man. Don't act all innocent, as a previous poster has already pointed out, your stance and politics are transparent.

Of course.... I can't help but ignore these mysterious polls. Who carried these polls out as a matter of interest? Your local orange lodge?

You're right about one thing though. You're only chance of keeping the 6 counties separate is if the Catholics vote for the union. So you better start being nice to them if you've to stand any chance of survival.

Genghis Khan.

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

I love how the militant unionist is now saying " who cares about religion" just because the Catholics (traditionally nationalist) are becoming the majority.
The twisting and turning of a desperate man. Don't act all innocent, as a previous poster has already pointed out, your stance and politics are transparent.

Of course.... I can't help but ignore these mysterious polls. Who carried these polls out as a matter of interest? Your local orange lodge?

You're right about one thing though. You're only chance of keeping the 6 counties separate is if the Catholics vote for the union. So you better start being nice to them if you've to stand any chance of survival.

Go look it up.

According to a recent survey, 52% of Catholics in Northern Ireland support the Union with Great Britain, whereas only 33% support a united Ireland.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/survey-most-northern-ireland-catholics-want-to-remain-in-uk-16012932.html

golden lane

is it normal for people on the island of ireland to take note of the peoples wishes......i don't think so....

Carlos_Ray

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Go look it up.


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/survey-most-northern-ireland-catholics-want-to-remain-in-uk-16012932.html

As I said earlier, you better start being nice to those Catholics because your future lies in their hands. Who knows what way they'll vote in the next ten or twenty years my friend. You may want to rethink your little marches and flag waving crap, because since those polls were carried out tension has been growing....

It must be a scary time for you lol

KeithM89_old

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Like yourself? The majority of people in Northern Ireland support the link with the Union. That is all there is to it. You can't deny facts. The rights of those counties to belong to that Union are being upheld and away from Dublin.

Mod:
Genghis Bhan(ed)

/awful

Chuck Stone

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

As I said earlier, you better start being nice to those Catholics because your future lies in their hands.

Even without a UI this is happening. Catholics/Nationalists are in the ascendency in the north while people like the person you've quoted are becoming archaeological curiosities.

awec

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

As I said earlier, you better start being nice to those Catholics because your future lies in their hands. Who knows what way they'll vote in the next ten or twenty years my friend. You may want to rethink your little marches and flag waving crap, because since those polls were carried out tension has been growing....

It must be a scary time for you lol

How would you know?