Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

SaoriseBiker

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Kerry and Cork are not part of the UK though so those signs would be wrong . Northern Ireland is Northern Ireland whether people are Catholic or Protestant, whatever their political outlook and regardless or what they want to believe.

Anyway, it's not like the signs say "Welcome to Northern Ireland, part of the UK, you may now bow to the Queen"

In geographic terms, it's not Northern Ireland, it's the North East of Ireland. Regardless, their still the occupied counites

cocoshovel

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

If signs were saying Kerry and Cork were "part of the UK", I think most of the people of Kerry and Cork mightn't be too happy either Maybe to please people like yourself Dun Laoghaire should be changed back to Kingstown and Cobh to Queenstown ?

What? Please dont dance around my point and make up a bunch of crap that isnt the case. The signs say "Welcome to Northern Ireland".

Maybe to please people like yourself Dun Laoghaire should be changed back to Kingstown and Cobh to Queenstown ?

Once again, what in the name of christ are you on about? Why would that please me, why would changing the names of Irish towns to old English names please me? I love how you can just subtly accuse me of being someone like that. That has nothing to do with what I was saying. People like you make me sick.

MaxSteele

And here comes the shinner bashing.

Some of these signs have already been removed by locals anyway. Either the rest of the signs shall follow suit or have "Northern" covered with graffiti as do many of the Londonderry signs have already.

Unless some stubborn unionist representatives and local council workers keep wasting money resurrecting the same signs ..... I can't see many of them staying up on the border anyway.

Guy:Incognito

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Occupied counties..

Whether you like it or not, its in the UK, uses Sterling, has the PSNI and doesnt use the laws of the South.

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

I'd think you'd find the UK did it's fair share of killing people or living their live's filled with hate - and on both sides of the border for that matter.

Who said anything about either side? I didnt single out one.

Chuck Stone

MagicSean wrote: »

It's practical and necessary signage.

Wrong.

If it were necessary it would have been put up long before now.

If a person chooses to get upset over them then they are feeding the trolls so to speak

Shifting the blame to those being antagonised is it?

This is lamp post pissing by Trolls or it's someone who has absolutely no concept of the sensitivities of the people living on the border.

Regardless, I can't see them lasting to long. They'll probably be cut down with blow-torches in a pretty short time.

Ghandee

My passport says I'm Irish.

Being born in the north automatically entitles you to self determination.

If your born in any of the six counties, but see yourself as Irish, so be it, that's your right. Equally, if you see yourself as being British, you also have that right too.

Sinn Fein as a nationalist, 32 county political party have the right to complain at signs displaying a name they do not recognise (northern Ireland)

Being born in the north gives them that right to choose their nationality (SF party members involved in dispute), i don't think you have much of a right to decide on their behalf what name they choose to give the place they call home.

(unless of course you're from the north too, and consider it British? Your post hasn't made that part clear)

Varied

cocoshovel wrote: »

What? Please dont dance around my point and make up a bunch of crap that isnt the case. The signs say "Welcome to Northern Ireland".



Once again, what in the name of christ are you on about? Why would that please me, why would changing the names of Irish towns to old English names please me? I love how you can just subtly accuse me of being someone like that. That has nothing to do with what I was saying. People like you make me sick.

Ive said it once already, it's not all about religion, go educate yourself instead of reading the tabloids.

the_syco

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Pedantic point but under EU law it is legal currency even in the streling area and has to be accepted.

Excellent; must remember that

Guy:Incognito

Ghandee wrote: »

Being born in the north gives them that right to choose their nationality,

It doesnt give them the right to decide the piece of land they live on isnt part of the united Kingdom though. Until it changes, its the United Kingdom.

cocoshovel

Varied wrote: »

Ive said it once already, it's not all about religion, go educate yourself instead of reading the tabloids.

I completely agree and I never said it was. I dont know where you think I did say that. Read my first comment in this thread again.

super_furry

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

If signs were saying Kerry and Cork were "part of the UK", I think most of the people of Kerry and Cork mightn't be too happy either Maybe to please people like yourself Dun Laoghaire should be changed back to Kingstown and Cobh to Queenstown ?

But Cork and Kerry aren't part of the UK. Northern Ireland is.

Why is this so hard to grasp?

Victor

I think that people need to look at this from the point of view of non-Irish people (resident or not), who may have very real reasons to know that they are crossing the border. How do those opposed to the signs suggest they be catered for?

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Pedantic point but under EU law it is legal currency even in the streling area and has to be accepted.

No it doesn't. Where did you get that idea? Any link to legislation?

Varied

the_syco wrote: »

Excellent; must remember that

Try learning about things before forming an opinion.

SaoriseBiker

super_furry wrote: »

But Cork and Kerry aren't part of the UK. Northern Ireland is.

Why is this so hard to grasp?

The people of Blacklion and Belcoo therefore have the right to object the Brits ramming a border between them. If it's good enough for people in Cork and Kerry, it should be good enough for people in Cavan and Fermanagh.

Simples.

kowloon

This is the most contentious thing since they wanted to change the stop lights.

Guy:Incognito

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Pedantic point but under EU law it is legal currency even in the streling area and has to be accepted.

Can you quote the EU law that says that?

Ghandee

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It doesnt give them the right to decide the piece of land they live on isnt part of the united Kingdom though. Until it changes, its the United Kingdom.

So by your definition, right to self determination means an Irishman living abroad?

Stand at free Derry corner, Andersonstown in west Belfast, Coalisland in Tyrone and tel any one of the locals you come across that they're currently 'not standing on Irish soil' and get back to me on that one.

Like i say, right to self determination.

Chuck Stone

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It doesnt give them the right to decide the piece of land they live on isnt part of the united Kingdom though. Until it changes, its the United Kingdom.

The border is an imaginary line drawn cynically to create a (once) privileged majority. It has been nothing but a thorn in the side for many people of an Irish persuasion on either side of it for years. Sticking up big signs where they hadn't been before reminding people of it is insensitive and provocative.

If you can't understand that then perhaps you should read these threads for a while before jumping in with two feet making ill-though out statements.

Lyaiera

When these threads come up I get a feeling of sorrow for the people in the north who are trying to get on with life despite this bollocksology going on. Sure they'd like to be part of the Republic, and sure they'd like to remain part of the Union. But really, they just want to go on raising their kids, finding their wives or husbands, going for a drink on Friday night, some might want to go to mass on Sunday, some would like to have a job with a multinational company where they get the chance to travel the world and earn a good wage. Then there's always people on both sides of a "divide" that's being maintained, constantly dragging things down to bitterness, anger and hatred when really, all most people want to do is enjoy their quiet life.

Guy:Incognito

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The border is an imaginary line drawn cynically to create a (once) privileged majority. It has been nothing but a thorn in the side for many people of an Irish persuasion on either side of it for years. Sticking up big signs where they hadn't been before reminding people of it is insensitive and provocative.

If you can't understand that then perhaps you should read these threads for a while before jumping in with two feet making ill-though out statements.

It still doesnt change the fact that that standing on one side of that line puts you in the UK and standing on the other doesnt.

I travel up to the north to a couple of lads in different parts every few weeks. The subject of religion or any other divide has never come up . I couldnt care less and they dont seem to either. From what I can see, they are living their lives the way they want. In 100 years both them and I will be dead and gone . Whether we spent our years just getting on with life or constantly battling about crap the end result is the same.

Maybe I just have a different outlook on life. I honestly couldnt care less if we sold the whole country to the UK tomorrow. I'lll start getting and using Sterling and most things will stay the same. I dont really get hung up on accidents of birth. Certainly not enough to start hating people that had nothing to do with any of it anyway.

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The signs going from Germany to Switzerland dont list every difference between the coundtries either but knowing that you've just changed countries allows you to use any knowledge you already have and combine it with the ability to fnd out new information if you want.
God forbid we let peopel know where they are.

we are not talking about changing countries here, jurisdictions yes.
The United Kingdom is not a country.
Its that fact that these signs are put up to antagonise the locals is the problem.
Why not just say "you are now entering Ulster", oh thats correct, that has nine counties, not six.

Ghandee

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It still doesnt change the fact that that standing on one side of that line puts you in the UK and standing on the other doesnt.

Hint.


The island of Ireland has 32 counties.


You may not like that as it counters your internet argument, but it's fact.

Where To

geneyuss wrote: »

we are not talking about changing countries here, jurisdictions yes.
The United Kingdom is not a country.
Its that fact that these signs are put up to antagonise the locals is the problem.
Why not just say "you are now entering Ulster", oh thats correct, that has nine counties, not six.

It is a sovereign state. Much like, oh let's see, for example, Ireland.

Guy:Incognito

Ghandee wrote: »

Hint.


The island of Ireland has 32 counties.


You may not like that as it counters your internet argument, but it's fact.

Its also a fact that 6 of those are part of the United Kingdom.

Pumpkinseeds

Why do people insist on feeling aggreaved by this? Is it not time people just moved on from the 'victim' mentality. It's Northern Ireland, the sign says Welcome to Northern Ireland. I seriously don't see what the problem is. If people want to take offence they will take offence, regardless.

Chuck Stone

Victor wrote: »

I think that people need to look at this from the point of view of non-Irish people (resident or not), who may have very real reasons to know that they are crossing the border. How do those opposed to the signs suggest they be catered for?

You'd want to be blind or severely impaired in some way not to notice if you're using the road.

geneyuss

Where To wrote: »

It is a sovereign state. Much like, oh let's see, for example, Ireland.

Northern Ireland is not a sovereign state,

admiralofthefleet

should say 'You are now entering occupied Ireland'

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

Its that fact that these signs are put up to antagonise the locals is the problem..

No, the problem is that a certain group decide that something is done just to antagonise them, when the reality is someone decided to put up a sign to inform people of something and probably didnt give them a 2nd thought in the misguided belief that people have grown up .

Everyone doesnt do things just to get at someone else.

geneyuss wrote: »

Why not just say "you are now entering Ulster", oh thats correct, that has nine counties, not six.

Is an American in a hire car goign to know they've just left Ireland and now have to use a different currency, are subject to different laws etc by seeing that sign?

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is an American in a hire car goign to know they've just left Ireland and now have to use a different currency, are subject to different laws etc by seeing that sign?

they dont !

Chuck Stone

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No, the problem is that a certain group decide that something is done just to antagonise them, when the reality is someone decided to put up a sign to inform people of something and probably didnt give them a 2nd thought

Such naivety.

geneyuss

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

should say 'You are now entering occupied Ireland'

exactly

RMD

Some of the arguments here are pathetic. It's a very poorly marked border, which once you cross either side you're in a new legal jurisdiction and a new currency is in use. Many tourists come to Ireland each year whether it be Dublin or Belfast and rent cars to travel around the Island, the border should be marked with signs on both side of the border "Welcome to the Republic of Ireland" and "Welcome to Northern Ireland" so those who aren't aware of the very poorly marked border are made aware when they cross it.

You'd swear we are back in The Troubles with some of the opinions being expressed here.

Where To

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You'd want to be blind or severely impaired in some way not to notice if you're using the road.

OK, for you and me no problem, we're here all our lives and can tell the difference. Could you tell whether you were in Spain or Portugal, or Finland or Sweden, if you had never seen them before, simply by looking at road markings though?

I know I couldn't. And I know I get asked at least once a week whether I will accept euros for a journey completed in it's entirety within Ireland.

Ghandee

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Its also a fact that 6 of those are part of the United Kingdom.

So, you've recognised the fact that Ireland has 32 counties, but yet your implying here that they're part of the UK?

They have to be Irish counties or UK counties.

Which is it?

Where To

geneyuss wrote: »

Northern Ireland is not a sovereign state,

Neither is Cork, but they are both a part of a sovereign state.

Guy:Incognito

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Such naivety.

Look, just stick on your tinfoil hat and lock yourslef in you house so the evil Brits cant get you.

geneyuss

RMD wrote: »

Some of the arguments here are pathetic. It's a very poorly marked border, which once you cross either side you're in a new legal jurisdiction and a new currency is in use. Many tourists come to Ireland each year whether it be Dublin or Belfast and rent cars to travel around the Island, the border should be marked with signs on both side of the border "Welcome to the Republic of Ireland" and "Welcome to Northern Ireland" so those who aren't aware of the very poorly marked border are made aware when they cross it.

You'd swear we are back in The Troubles with some of the opinions being expressed here.

its abit like you're opinion is gospel and the rest of us are wrong, akin to not being allowed to vote, send your kids to school, get jobs, rely on the police etc

MagicSean

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

No you didn't.



Them signs don't say anything about what you've mentioned do they?

They tell you you are in a different country. The rest is a logical deduction based on that information.

Nodin wrote: »

And just because its being done now doesn't mean its required either.

So you honestly believe that it is not necessary to notify people that they will be in a different country with different laws?

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Wrong.

If it were necessary it would have been put up long before now.

By that logic no new laws would ever be brought in and no changes would ever be made anywhere.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Shifting the blame to those being antagonised is it?

This is lamp post pissing by Trolls or it's someone who has absolutely no concept of the sensitivities of the people living on the border.

Regardless, I can't see them lasting to long. They'll probably be cut down with blow-torches in a pretty short time.

No doubt they will ve vandalised. But vandalising something you don't agree with is nothing to be proud of. It's nothing but petty crime.

geneyuss

Where To wrote: »

Neither is Cork, but they are both a part of a sovereign state.

the north isnt a county

Einhard

Isn't Northern Ireland Northern Ireland whether you are Catholic or Protestant, Unionist or Republican? Or am I missing something here?

Anyone I know from Northe, eh....that part of the world, always claimed to be from Northern Ireland. What's the problem. If the signs said "Welcome to the UK" I'd understand the kerfuffle, but this really is silly season stuff.

Guy:Incognito

Ghandee wrote: »

So, you've recognised the fact that Ireland has 32 counties, but yet your implying here that they're part of the UK?

They have to be Irish counties or UK counties.

Which is it?

There are 32 counties on the Island of Ireland yes. 6 of them are in the United Kingdom. The Island of Ireland is not a country just like the Iberian penninsula isnt a country.

Britain has whatever number of counties it has despite them being in 3 different countries.

Chuck Stone

Where To wrote: »

Could you tell whether you were in Spain or Portugal, or Finland or Sweden, if you had never seen them before, simply by looking at road markings though?

I can't speak to those borders but FRA/GER, GER/AUSTRIA, FRA/SPAIN I'd imagine if the welcome to 'XXXX' signs were removed it wouldn't take long for it to hit home. Also people have sat nav and smart phones these days negating the need for lamp-post pissing in sensitive areas.

I know I couldn't. And I know I get asked at least once a week whether I will accept euros for a journey completed in it's entirety within Ireland.

I understand there might be some confusion if you're skirting along the border but travelling into the six counties there is a considerable change in road markings, bus stops, road signs and even the fields seem to have less ditches and more wire fences.

MagicSean

geneyuss wrote: »

its abit like you're opinion is gospel and the rest of us are wrong, akin to not being allowed to vote, send your kids to school, get jobs, rely on the police etc

Yes it is a bit like that. In the same way that a potato is a bit like an apple.

Ghandee

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

There are 32 counties on the Island of Ireland yes..

Thank you.

So regardless what county you happen to be stranding in, as you yourself say, you're still in Ireland.

Trying to say the six counties are part of the UK, but in the same post say their on the island of Ireland is a bit contradictory.

(imo)

3DataModem

Ghandee wrote: »

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It still doesnt change the fact that that standing on one side of that line puts you in the UK and standing on the other doesnt.

Hint.


The island of Ireland has 32 counties.


You may not like that as it counters your internet argument, but it's fact.

What about Fingal? And Dun Laoghaire Rathdown?

Or do you only count GAA county teams as "counties"?

Do try and keep up.

Guy:Incognito

Ghandee wrote: »

Thank you.

So regardless what county you happen to be stranding in, as you yourself say, you're still in Ireland.

Trying to say the six counties are part of the UK, but in the same post say their on the island of Ireland is a bit contradictory.

(imo)

Jesus, you really are a child. You know selective quoting doesnt erase what I said and certainly doesnt change the fact that 6 of the counties are in the United Kingdom.

How is it contradictory? The rest of my post that you conveniently left out is quite clear on it. The island of Ireland is not a country. Its an island made up of Ireland and part of the UK.

Chuck Stone

Einhard wrote: »

Isn't Northern Ireland Northern Ireland whether you are Catholic or Protestant, Unionist or Republican? Or am I missing something here?

Nationalists/Catholics/Republicans, on the whole, rarely refer to the six counties as Northern Ireland (see :pac:)

I guess to use the 'Northern Ireland' name, in a way, causes a psychological border between them and their southern fellow Irish that they do not accept.

/pop psych

cometogether

Just out of interest, what did Sinn Fein want the signs to say?

Einhard

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Nationalists/Catholics/Republicans, on the whole, rarely refer to the six counties as Northern Ireland (see :pac:)

I guess to use the 'Northern Ireland' name, in a way, causes a psychological border between them and their southern fellow Irish that they do not accept.

/pop psych

Hmmm still a load of hooha over nothing. Although your psychological analysis of the situation is deeply profound! :pac: