Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

Guy:Incognito

Pure_Cork wrote: »

And yet there's teams from one association's jurisdiction competing in the league of another, and players from that association's jurisdiction playing for the national team of the other.

Yep, and theres Welsh teams playing in England.

Pure_Cork

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yep, and theres Welsh teams playing in England.

And there's entirely different reasons behind that.

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

you said if the Queen gave back the north (not that its her decision) that there'll be people WAY down in Dublin deciding how people in the north live, i was just pointing out that Dublin already decides, as do them folk way over there in London

You know that discussion was because someone complained about people in Dublin having an opinion on northern affairs yeah? It wasnt a standalone political post.

Where To

Pure_Cork wrote: »

And yet there's teams from one association's jurisdiction competing in the league of the other, and players from that association's jurisdiction playing for the national team of the other.

Canadian teams playing in the US
New Zealand teams playing in Australia
Slovakian teams playing in Russia
and so on. . .

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yep, and theres Welsh teams playing in England.

but not Scottish

Guy:Incognito

Pure_Cork wrote: »

And there's entirely different reasons behind that.

I know that but thats not whats being discussed. Some sports are all Ireland, some arent . Ones that are were being singled out as some sort of proof that its all one country.

Northern Monkey

The majority who want a united Ireland would change their minds if it actually happened.

Pay €2,000 instead of £400 for car tax (extreme example, but an example none the less)
Pay 10%-40% more to buy the actual car (new obviously)
Spend your time dodging pot holes or paying tolls to use the roads that don't have any.
Pay for school books
Pay for health care
Pay €5 for a pint
Spend the next 20+ years paying additional taxes year on year to cover the bail out
Pay a property tax (it's coming) to cover local services and then pay again for your services

Where are the positives? The only one I can think of is better welfare rates and lets face it, there would be a lot of people on the dole given the amount of people working for the civil service in the north.

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

but not Scottish

Nope, just an English one in Sctoland (maybe more but I genuine dont car emuch for Scottish fooball so I'll leave that one to you).

Sound of Silence

John Doe1 wrote: »

I live 5 miles from the border, this really is a non-issue. Sinn fein always need something to rally against

I doubt this would be a Unionist issue.

A couple of street signs in as gaeilge is more their speed.

annascott

I travel from Dublin to Donegal frequently and it's never really clear anymore where the borders are. The signs are a great idea. Makes it easier re phone coverage etc

SocSocPol

Look it's simple, in a democratic vote the people of this 26 county juristiction VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY to give up our territorial claim on Northern Ireland and accept it as part of the UK until such time(hopefully never) as a majority of the voters in Northern Ireland decide differently. Thats democracy, something SF thinks comes from an Armalite and the rest of us know comes from a ballot box.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK,it is a seperate country, a seperate juristiction and it's time SF and their ill advised shills accepted that fact!

Guy:Incognito

Northern Monkey wrote: »

Pay a property tax (it's coming) to cover local services and then pay again for your services
.

They have rates in the North

"So, if the capital value of your home was valued at £80,000 and you live in the Down District Council area, the following calculation will show you your rate bill for the year 2012 to 2013.
•£80,000 (CV) x 0.007203 = £576.24"

John Doe1

annascott wrote: »

I travel from Dublin to Donegal frequently and it's never really clear anymore where the borders are. The signs are a great idea. Makes it easier re phone coverage etc

You know you are in donegal when the people resemble gods

geneyuss

Northern Monkey wrote: »

The majority who want a united Ireland would change their minds if it actually happened.

Pay €2,000 instead of £400 for car tax (extreme example, but an example none the less)
Pay 10%-40% more to buy the actual car (new obviously)
Spend your time dodging pot holes or paying tolls to use the roads that don't have any.
Pay for school books
Pay for health care
Pay €5 for a pint
Spend the next 20+ years paying additional taxes year on year to cover the bail out
Pay a property tax (it's coming) to cover local services and then pay again for your services

Where are the positives? The only one I can think of is better welfare rates and lets face it, there would be a lot of people on the dole given the amount of people working for the civil service in the north.

A property tax the Uk has had for over 20 years, the Uk has higher petrol prices, only a mug would pay E5 for a pint, so there are no potholes or tolls in the UK? The Uk is still paying for its IMF bailout from the late 70's

Guy:Incognito

John Doe1 wrote: »

You know you are in donegal when the people resemble gods

You spellt dogs wrong.

geneyuss

SocSocPol wrote: »

Look it's simple, in a democratic vote the people of this 26 county juristiction VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY to give up our territorial claim on Northern Ireland and accept it as part of the UK until such time(hopefully never) as a majority of the voters in Northern Ireland decide differently. Thats democracy, something SF thinks comes from an Armalite and the rest of us know comes from a ballot box.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK,it is a seperate country, a seperate juristiction and it's time SF and their ill advised shills accepted that fact!

simply not true, and it was almost 100 years ago, alot has changed since, and the behaviour of the british in the north has had a lot to do with that change

SocSocPol

geneyuss wrote: »

simply not true, and it was almost 100 years ago, alot has changed since, and the behaviour of the british in the north has had a lot to do with that change

Since when was 1998 over 100 years ago?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement

!In the Republic, the electorate voted upon the nineteenth amendment to the Constitution of Ireland. This amendment both permitted the state to comply with the Belfast Agreement and provided for the removal of the 'territorial claim' contained in Articles 2 and 3.

Ghandee

John Doe1 wrote: »

You know you are in donegal when the people resemble gods

Daniel O'Donnel and Bernard McHugh stand testament to that fact.

Dravokivich

SocSocPol wrote: »

geneyuss wrote: »

simply not true, and it was almost 100 years ago, alot has changed since, and the behaviour of the british in the north has had a lot to do with that change

Since when was 1998 over 100 years ago?

Since 2099!

Ghandee

SocSocPol wrote: »

Since when was 1998 over 100 years ago?

The right to self determination predated the GFA.

geneyuss

SocSocPol wrote: »

Since when was 1998 over 100 years ago?

sorry i misread your post, i was referring to the original vote on partition and the subsequent civil war caused by that vote, the good friday agreement is alot more complicated than Eire giving up its claim to the 6 counties

Dubhlinner

geneyuss wrote: »

Dublin already has a say in the affairs of N,Ireland i.e cross border bodies etc, have you read the good friday agreement or are you just in continuios denial that times are changing

cross border bodies have zero powers as far as i can see.

SocSocPol

geneyuss wrote: »

sorry i misread your post, i was referring to the original vote on partition and the subsequent civil war caused by that vote, the good friday agreement is alot more complicated than Eire giving up its claim to the 6 counties

Nothing at all complicated about the people of the Republic of Ireland voting overwhelmingly to remove our territorial claim to a part of the UK in the 19th Amendment to the Constitution, just a pity SF and their shill want to have their cake and eat it and only recognise democratic votes when it suits their ends.

Northern Monkey

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They have rates in the North

"So, if the capital value of your home was valued at £80,000 and you live in the Down District Council area, the following calculation will show you your rate bill for the year 2012 to 2013.
•£80,000 (CV) x 0.007203 = £576.24"

geneyuss wrote: »

A property tax the Uk has had for over 20 years, the Uk has higher petrol prices, only a mug would pay E5 for a pint, so there are no potholes or tolls in the UK? The Uk is still paying for its IMF bailout from the late 70's

Agreed, but the property tax in the North covers local services like bin collection, etc. Once the property tax here comes into force properly, you will still have to pay for such services on top of it.

There is currently one toll road (the M6) and then a few bridges and tunnels in the UK that are tolled (none in NI to my knowledge). Yes there are potholes, but they are generally fairly quick about fixing them.

I'd rather have higher petrol prices and lower motor tax. Tax the people by consumption rather than a fixed fee regardless of how much you drive.

Anyway, we've gone a bit off topic. Back to signs, I don't have a problem with them.

SocSocPol

Ghandee wrote: »

The right to self determination predated the GFA.

The 19th Amendment is the most recent and most relavent plebiscite.
The people have spoken, we dont want Norn Iron,its a foriegn place.

Border-Rat

SocSocPol wrote: »

Look it's simple, in a democratic vote the people of this 26 county juristiction VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY to give up our territorial claim on Northern Ireland and accept it as part of the UK until such time(hopefully never) as a majority of the voters in Northern Ireland decide differently. Thats democracy, something SF thinks comes from an Armalite and the rest of us know comes from a ballot box.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK,it is a seperate country, a seperate juristiction and it's time SF and their ill advised shills accepted that fact!

They basically voted to end a conflict by any means. Your opposition to a United Ireland is part of a minority. Finally, any questionable actions or atrocities the Provisional IRA carried out, it learned from the terrorist founders of the free state.

geneyuss

Dubhlinner wrote: »

cross border bodies have zero powers as far as i can see.

those bodies are more about influence than power, decisions will be made in Leinster House, Westminster and Stormont pertaining to the affairs of N.Ireland for the foreseeable future .

Chuck Stone

SocSocPol wrote: »

Thats democracy, something SF thinks comes from an Armalite and the rest of us know comes from a ballot box.

The north came about because of abuse of democracy. Gerrymandering the Catholic population was abuse of democracy. The IRA was energized by people having their civil rights violently trampled on to the point of being murdered on the streets by Unionist militias and the British Army.

Yet all you can bleat about is your blatant bias against all things Republican.

What a caricature.

cocoshovel

Varied wrote: »

You also have assholes claiming its all about religion, but such is life.

Im still confused about this comment. Its said and thanked like I was the one who said it is all about religion.

Sound of Silence

SocSocPol wrote: »

Nothing at all complicated about the people of the Republic of Ireland voting overwhelmingly to remove our territorial claim to a part of the UK in the 19th Amendment to the Constitution, just a pity SF and their shill want to have their cake and eat it and only recognise democratic votes when it suits their ends.

Whether or not Sinn Fein utters a single word about the whole debacle, it's pretty much guaranteed that these signs won't be shown the greatest level of respect by rebellious locals.

Ya know, cos' it's a local issue...

The same reason why as gaeilge signs don't have a great survival rate in Unionist areas - a fate guaranteed by similarly opportunistic DUP members.

SocSocPol

Border-Rat wrote: »

They basically voted to end a conflict by any means. Your opposition to a United Ireland is part of a minority. Finally, any questionable actions or atrocities the Provisional IRA carried out, it learned from the terrorist founders of the free state.

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\
"They haven't gone away ya know"!

Border-Rat

SocSocPol wrote: »

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\
"They haven't gone away ya know"!

Sorry, but I just made several points and you mutter an attempted insult and ignore anything written?

Not a fan of the War of Independence then? You beat your chest terrorism, then beat it some more about adhering to a constitution founded by terrorism? You seem a bit confused, a chara.

Guy:Incognito

Border-Rat wrote: »

They basically voted to end a conflict by any means. .

If the vote went the other way you'd be saying it was striking a blow towards getting a united Ireland. Spin, eh?

If everyone was fully informed of the facts of a united Ireland and how it would affect them, mainly financially, would the support be the same (on either side of the border)

Most of the support I've seen over the years (being from a workign class backround) doesnt stretch any further than "****ing Brits , give us back the north" and is entirely centred around the Idea that the Brits are *****.

Sound of Silence

cocoshovel wrote: »

Im still confused about this comment. Its said and thanked like I was the one who said it is all about religion.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80113185&postcount=41

How pathetic. Religion should have nothing to do with this but of course you have assholes who bring it in regardless.

Well, you did mention it.

geneyuss

Border-Rat wrote: »

Sorry, but I just made several points and you mutter an attempted insult and ignore anything written?

Not a fan of the War of Independence then? You beat your chest terrorism, then beat it some more about adhering to a constitution founded by terrorism? You seem a bit confused, a chara.

one mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter

Yamanoto

This thread and indeed the issue itself provides some insight as to the common-sense disconnect which habitually manifests among republicans and their loyalist mirror-image, who engage in a depressingly predictable footrace to take offence and to wallow in victim-hood - each side portraying their tribe as put upon, plotted against, slighted or neglected.

I'd imagine the majority of folks in both jurisdictions would be wholly supportive of cultural sensitivities being handled judiciously, but there come's a point where the piddling nature of the grievance simply shouldn't be indulged at an official level - This is what we're doing, sorry you don't like it, but that's the way it's gonna be etc

Sound of Silence

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Most of the support I've seen over the years (being from a workign class backround) doesnt stretch any further than "****ing Brits , give us back the north" and is entirely centred around the Idea that the Brits are *****.

Did you come to these assumptions after staring at some poorly drawn graffiti?

Border-Rat

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If the vote went the other way you'd be saying it was striking a blow towards getting a united Ireland. Spin, eh?

If everyone was fully informed of the facts of a united Ireland and how it would affect them, mainly financially, would the support be the same (on either side of the border)

Most of the support I've seen over the years (being from a workign class backround) doesnt stretch any further than "****ing Brits , give us back the north" and is entirely centred around the Idea that the Brits are *****.

Kinda ironic, you attempting to lecture someone on being ill-informed. You do realise that border Counties, which by the way make up 4 of the 6, suffer perpetual economic stagnation because of partition? That Derry as a city will never prosper fully as its cut off from its economic hinterland? You think we're all just thick malcontents up here with an irrational Brit hatred?

The funding of those deadweight counties is made up of 75% government funding. How long do you suppose that'll last with a UK Government carrying a debt of 5 trillion, and when the majority of people under 27 in NI are now Catholic?

Sound of Silence

Yamanoto wrote: »

This thread and indeed the issue itself provides some insight as to the common-sense disconnect which habitually manifests among republicans and their loyalist mirror-image, who engage in a depressingly predictable footrace to take offence and to wallow in victim-hood - each side portraying their tribe as put upon, plotted against, slighted or neglected.

I'd imagine the majority of folks in both jurisdictions would be wholly supportive of cultural sensitivities being handled judiciously, but there come's a point where the piddling nature of the grievance simply shouldn't be indulged at an official level - This is what we're doing, sorry you don't like it, but that's the way it's gonna be etc

I believe you're under the illusion that Politics is a refrained and civil affair, or that Human Beings are not inherently tribal.

Northern Ireland does not exist in vacuum. It took a lot of work to f*ck it up this badly.

Border-Rat

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Did you come to these assumptions after staring at some poorly drawn graffiti?

He probably rarely, if ever ventures accross the border. Apparently the perpetual economic kick in the balls places like Derry and Newry must endure as a result of partition is an attraction to people in the 06 Counties. And the lions share of the whopping 75% Government spending goes to the two sole remaining Unionist Counties in the North East.

Then they wonder why dissidents call the North-West home.

Chuck Stone

Yamanoto wrote: »

This thread and indeed the issue itself provides some insight as to the common-sense disconnect which habitually manifests among republicans and their loyalist mirror-image, who engage in a depressingly predictable footrace to take offence and to wallow in victim-hood - each side portraying their tribe as put upon, plotted against, slighted or neglected.

I'd imagine the majority of folks in both jurisdictions would be wholly supportive of cultural sensitivities being handled judiciously, but there come's a point where the piddling nature of the grievance simply shouldn't be indulged at an official level - This is what we're doing, sorry you don't like it, but that's the way it's gonna be etc

What's important is that you get to remain above it all, make gross generalisations and fail miserably at trying to appear as a self-appointed all-knowing commentator who in reality hasn't a ****ing clue what he's talking about.

SocSocPol

Border-Rat wrote: »

Kinda ironic, you attempting to lecture someone on being ill-informed. You do realise that border Counties, which by the way make up 4 of the 6, suffer perpetual economic stagnation because of partition? That Derry as a city will never prosper fully as its cut off from its economic hinterland? You think we're all just thick malcontents up here with an irrational Brit hatred?

The funding of those deadweight counties is made up of 75% government funding. How long do you suppose that'll last with a UK Government carrying a debt of 5 trillion, and when the majority of people under 27 in NI are now Catholic?

Based upon your own posts I would have to say "if the cap fits wear it".
And actually I've just returned from a lovely weekend in the Everglades Hotel in Londonderry and it seemed to be prospering quite nicely with visitors from Italy,France,Spain, GB, and the Republic.

Victor

Border-Rat wrote: »

Not a fan of the War of Independence then? You beat your chest terrorism, then beat it some more about adhering to a constitution founded by terrorism?

Really, which one?

The 1937 constitution was adopted by the people, with no violence involved.

Border-Rat

SocSocPol wrote: »

Based upon your own posts I would have to say "if the cap fits wear it".
And actually I've just returned from a lovely weekend in the Everglades Hotel in Londonderry and it seemed to be prospering quite nicely with visitors from Italy,France,Spain, GB, and the Republic.

I accept your ad hom as a forfeit. Let me re-iterate the points you couldn't handle: 2+3 were dropped in an attempt to end the conflict by any means, the people in the South who do not want a UI are in the minority. Unionists, like you, even smaller minority. Finally, the IRA that brought about the constitution you herald were worse than the IRA you critisize.

Border-Rat

Victor wrote: »

Really, which one?

The 1937 constitution was adopted by the people, with no violence involved.

To try and say it bears no relation to Collins' burning Prods out of their home - desperate, in a word. There'd be no constitution if not for the IRA.

Sound of Silence

SocSocPol wrote: »

Based upon your own posts I would have to say "if the cap fits wear it".
And actually I've just returned from a lovely weekend in the Everglades Hotel in Londonderry and it seemed to be prospering quite nicely with visitors from Italy,France,Spain, GB, and the Republic.

People from other Countries in a Hotel in Derry?

You're having me on! I've never known a place to be so cosmopolitan. I guess we people up here in Northern Ireland don't know what we're on to!

Guy:Incognito

Border-Rat wrote: »

He probably rarely, if ever ventures accross the border. Apparently the perpetual economic kick in the balls places like Derry and Newry must endure as a result of partition is an attraction to people in the 06 Counties. And the lions share of the whopping 75% Government spending goes to the two sole remaining Unionist Counties in the North East.

Then they wonder why dissidents call the North-West home.

I go over the border plenty thanks. Newry profits from partition aswell as losing out. How much would it lose when the lines of cars heading up to shop completely stops? Theres 2 sides to each debate.

The only way I can see it being a financial gain to the South in increasing the population by a coupel of million is by importing them here. Gaining new territory aong with it wont help.

Why not try for complete independance if this runnign a country thing is so easy?

Border-Rat

Sound of Silence wrote: »

People from other Countries in a Hotel in Derry?

You're having me on! I've never known a place to be so cosmopolitan. I guess we people up here in Northern Ireland don't know what we're on to!

Don't you know that one hotel a mile from the city centre is indicative of the overall economic health of a city?! I wonder which direction he entered Derry from. Through Strabane - ghost town, or the Bogside - that great mecca of industrial and economic might.

cocoshovel

Sound of Silence wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80113185&postcount=41



Well, you did mention it.

Should have nothing

Chuck Stone

SocSocPol wrote: »

And actually I've just returned from a lovely weekend in the Everglades Hotel in Londonderry and it seemed to be prospering quite nicely with visitors from Italy,France,Spain, GB, and the Republic.

I'd hazard a guess you weren't calling it Londonderry with such gay abandon when you were there in real life.