Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

Guy:Incognito

Border-Rat wrote: »

That Derry as a city will never prosper fully as its cut off from its economic hinterland? You think we're all just thick malcontents up here with an irrational Brit hatred?
?

Unless "up here" is the working class areas of Dublin , I dont see where I was talking about your area.

Border-Rat

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I go over the border plenty thanks. Newry profits from partition aswell as losing out. How much would it lose when the lines of cars heading up to shop completely stops? Theres 2 sides to each debate.

Actually, no there isn't two sides to that debate. The people that flock up do so to ASDA, which in no way benefits the local economy. In fact, in Strabane, the large ASDA outpost has practically killed the town centre and small businesses. In an attempt to compensate, the local Council makes every street a pay-area for parking, further driving locals away from from commuting. Southerners go nowhere near the locals businesses, the large superstores are placed away from them to avoid congestion.

Inconvenient facts for you, but I don't make them facts.

SocSocPol

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess you weren't calling it Londonderry with such gay abandon when you were there in real life.

Why not? That was the address of the hotel and thats what ALL the roadsigns called it once I entered the UK at Aughnacloy.

Sound of Silence

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I go over the border plenty thanks. Newry profits from partition aswell as losing out. How much would it lose when the lines of cars heading up to shop completely stops? Theres 2 sides to each debate.

Sainsbury's in Newry profits from partition.

I don't know if the shelf-stackers working there are living the high life as result of it though.

SocSocPol

Border-Rat wrote: »

Actually, no there isn't two sides to that debate. The people that flock up do so to ASDA, which in no way benefits the local economy. In fact, in Strabane, the large ASDA outpost has practically killed the town centre and small businesses. In an attempt to compensate, the local Council makes every street a pay-area for parking, further driving locals away from from commuting. Southerners go nowhere near the locals businesses, the large superstores are placed away from them to avoid congestion.

Inconvenient facts for you, but I don't make them facts.

The people that flock up do so to ASDA, which in no way benefits the local economy- yeah ASDA don't employ local workers, their staff are flown in daily from Mongolia!
Of course it helps the local economy:mad:

Seanchai

SocSocPol wrote: »

Northern Ireland is ... a seperate country

No, it's not. Duh. Keep trying. :rolleyes:

Seán O'Doherty of Pettigo, Co. Fermanagh is just as Irish by birth as Seán O'Doherty 100 metres down the hill in Pettigo, Co. Donegal. And regardless of your prejudices and bitterness about this fact, international law is on his side since at least the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985, a status which was reinforced in the GFA of 1998.

In other words, the British state which you think you're defending here has conceded unequivocally that because of his birth in the part of Ireland currently known as "Northern Ireland" he has a right to be a citizen of the sovereign state known as Ireland. This internationally-enshrined birthright to Irishness does not exist by virtue of somebody being born in a foreign country like, for instance, Britain. How does that fit into your "Northern Ireland is as British as Finchley" delusions?

Border-Rat

SocSocPol wrote: »

Why not? That was the address of the hotel and thats what ALL the roadsigns called it once I entered the UK at Aughnacloy.

The Everglades is in a Nationalist area. In fact, its quite close to a staunchly Republican area. The employee's, in all probability, don't share you're Unionist outlook.

Guy:Incognito

Border-Rat wrote: »

Actually, no there isn't two sides to that debate. The people that flock up do so to ASDA, which in no way benefits the local economy. In fact, in Strabane, the large ASDA outpost has practically killed the town centre and small businesses. In an attempt to compensate, the local Council makes every street a pay-area for parking, further driving locals away from from commuting.

So now your debating the economics and benefits of large multiples. People shopping in a country, regardless of where they shop is a gain for the economy. Who works in ASDA btw? Are they shipping in all their staff from Britain?

Are you really sayign theres no economc gain to NI from all the shoppers from the south?

It's good that you've surveyed everyone headign up to make sure they are headign in to asda and going by all the other shops.

average_runner

Seanchai wrote: »

SocSocPol wrote: »

Northern Ireland is ... a seperate country

No, it's not. Duh. Keep trying. :rolleyes:

Seán O'Doherty of Pettigo, Co. Fermanagh is just as Irish by birth as Seán O'Doherty 100 metres down the hill in Pettigo, Co. Donegal. And regardless of your prejudices and bitterness about this fact, international law is on his side since at least the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985, a status which was reinforced in the GFA of 1998.

In other words, the British state which you think you're defending here has conceded unequivocally that because of his birth in the part of Ireland currently known as "Northern Ireland" he has a right to be a citizen of the sovereign state known as Ireland. This internationally-enshrined birthright to Irishness does not exist by virtue of somebody being born in a foreign country like, for instance, Britain. How does that fit into your "Northern Ireland is as British as Finchley" delusions?

Its still not a part of the republic. They dont pay taxes to kenny. They pay taxes ti cameron if they work in the nirth. FACT

Border-Rat

SocSocPol wrote: »

The people that flock up do so to ASDA, which in no way benefits the local economy- yeah ASDA don't employ local workers, their staff are flown in daily from Mongolia!
Of course it helps the local economy:mad:

Oh, so you ignore 3 other points but decide you'll take this one on? ASDA removes millions from the local economy in one month. Are you saying their employee's on minimum wage are millionaires. Unlikely. Whats more important, employing some people or sustaining some businesses?

Guy:Incognito

Seanchai wrote: »

No, it's not. Duh. Keep trying. :rolleyes:

Seán O'Doherty of Pettigo, Co. Fermanagh is just as Irish by birth as Seán O'Doherty 100 metres down the hill in Pettigo, Co. Donegal. And regardless of your prejudices and bitterness about this fact, international law is on his side since at least the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985, a status which was reinforced in the GFA of 1998.

In other words, the British state which you think you're defending here has conceded unequivocally that because of his birth in the part of Ireland currently known as "Northern Ireland" he has a right to be a citizen of the sovereign state known as Ireland. This internationally-enshrined birthright to Irishness does not exist by virtue of somebody being born in a foreign country like, for instance, Britain. How does that fit into your "Northern Ireland is as British as Finchley" delusions?

According to border rat the Irish people gave Sean that right as a concession in a "peace by any means" agreement. Or does that only apply to the bits that suit?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Why doesn't that terrorist fella with the beard go back to his own country and leave us all alone. :pac:

Sound of Silence

SocSocPol wrote: »

Why not? That was the address of the hotel and thats what ALL the roadsigns called it once I entered the UK at Aughnacloy.

Ask the locals if they call it Londonderry.

It's funny how this drifts so close to the topic of the thread! Ya know, the issue that arises when a local population don't agree with the signs that supposedly represent them.

SocSocPol

Border-Rat wrote: »

The Everglades is in a Nationalist area. In fact, its quite close to a staunchly Republican area. The employee's, in all probability, don't share you're Unionist outlook.

Yea Prehen is so CIRA

Guy:Incognito

Border-Rat wrote: »

Are you saying their employee's on minimum wage are millionaires.?

Would they be closer to being millionaires if they were n the dole?

Border-Rat

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So now your debating the economics

The discussion never changed from economics. The fantasy here is that people in the 06 Counties will never decide to leave it, due to economic bliss. I have just pointed out that 4 out of those 6 are quite the opposite.

and benefits of large multiples. People shopping in a country, regardless of where they shop is a gain for the economy.

It might be a gain for the UK, but its not a gain for the local economy. Where do the millions lifted monthly go? Not to Newry or Strabane, whose economic conditions are worsened because of it. Local employment of one shop is not comparable to the destruction of local business.

Are you really sayign theres no economc gain to NI from all the shoppers from the south?

It does more damage than good.

It's good that you've surveyed everyone headign up to make sure they are headign in to asda and going by all the other shops.

Where I live, you can tell where these people move by the license plates in their cars. They go nowhere near the town-centre or local economy.

geneyuss

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why doesn't that terrorist fella with the beard go back to his own country and leave us all alone. :pac:

who Michael Stone ? yeah, he really should go back to Englandstan as he is so "loyal" to it

Seanchai

average_runner wrote: »

Its still not a part of the republic. They dont pay taxes to kenny. They pay taxes ti cameron if they work in the nirth. FACT

What political jurisdiction it is currently part of is not being disputed. There are clearly two distinct jurisdictions in the country at the moment. A mere jurisdiction does not a country make.

Ghandee

SocSocPol wrote: »

Why not? That was the address of the hotel and thats what ALL the roadsigns called it once I entered the UK at Aughnacloy.

So what happens in the north, didnt happen in Ireland/isnt happening in Ireland, it happened in the 'UK' have I got that right?

SocSocPol

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Ask the locals if they call it Londonderry.

It's funny how this drifts so close to the topic of the thread! Ya know, the issue that arises when a local population don't agree with the signs that supposedly represent them.

The locals, on the waterside certainly would agree, as would those in the Fountain. but of course they are not entitled to an opinion in your view.

Border-Rat

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Would they be closer to being millionaires if they were n the dole?

You don't get it, do you? When someone is employed, they spend their money. These people spend their wages in the place they work in. The money does not circulate outside the store.

Yamanoto

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What's important is that you get to remain above it all, make gross generalisations and fail miserably at trying to appear as a self-appointed all-knowing commentator who in reality hasn't a ****ing clue what he's talking about.

Calm down dear.

You're clearly different, you've gone rogue.

Not for you the prevailing trends which serve only to replace internecine violence and hostility with a devotion to some jumble of wishy-washy agreements.

Shalom.

Sound of Silence

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Would they be closer to being millionaires if they were n the dole?

Being in Part-time employment, I imagine that a significant number of them are supplementing their wages with Dole money.

Then again, most of their employees are pubescent Teenagers. Hardly what you would consider keystones of the local Economy.

As Border-Rat noted, Sainsbury's and ASDA suck the life out of local business.

Guy:Incognito

Border-Rat wrote: »

The discussion never changed from economics. The fantasy here is that people in the 06 Counties will never decide to leave it, due to economic bliss. I have just pointed out that 4 out of those 6 are quite the opposite.



It might be a gain for the UK, but its not a gain for the local economy. Where do the millions lifted monthly go? Not to Newry or Strabane, whose economic conditions are worsened because of it. Local employment of one shop is not comparable to the destruction of local business.



It does more damage than good.



Where I live, you can tell where these people move by the license plates in their cars. They go nowhere near the town-centre or local economy.

Theres no shortage of southern cars in Newry.

Anyway, what your talking about is modern retail. nothing special about Northern Ireland. Its the same everywhere. Large multiples are there and peopel flock to them.

Do you think you'd be better off (as a country or an individual) being part of Ireland rather than the UK?

geneyuss

average_runner wrote: »

Its still not a part of the republic. They dont pay taxes to kenny. They pay taxes ti cameron if they work in the nirth. FACT

Don't the pay taxes to their own assembly, which is ran buy both communities ?

Guy:Incognito

Seanchai wrote: »

What political jurisdiction it is currently part of is not being disputed..

Being disputed by who? Ireland says its part of the UK and so does the UK.

fasttalkerchat

About the signs: one has already been taken down. At this rate the problem will be over within a week. It was a childish move to put them up in the first place, maybe loyalist and British flags didn't do enough to mark their territories. Unionists really are like dogs pissing on lampposts.

Guy:Incognito

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

About the signs: one has already been taken down. At this rate the problem will be over within a week. It was a childish move to put them up in the first place, maybe loyalist and British flags didn't do enough to mark their territories. Unionists really are like dogs pissing on lampposts.

Just as well the Republicans stay above all that then isnt it?

fasttalkerchat

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Being disputed by who? Ireland says its part of the UK and so does the UK.

Just because their is no formidable armed campaign doesn't mean that a large part of the population north of the border don't recognise it as a state.

Border-Rat

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Theres no shortage of southern cars in Newry.

Headed to the ASDA outpost with no intentions of going near local businesses.

Anyway, what your talking about is modern retail. nothing special about Northern Ireland. Its the same everywhere. Large multiples are there and peopel flock to them.

I'm responding to rebuttal that the border Counties do not suffer because Southerners shop there. Which in fact hurts those areas further still, ASDA in Strabane is not placed next to a former border checkpoint for no reason. Its there to exploit the difference in currency - to the demise further of the local economy.

Do you think you'd be better off (as a country or an individual) being part of Ireland rather than the UK?

No Country prospers while partitioned. Ireland will never hit 5th gear seperated. As for myself, I'm a Nationalist. Economically and ideologically.

fasttalkerchat

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Just as well the Republicans stay above all that then isnt it?

I didn't say that it doesn't happen in republican areas in fact Free Derry corner is something similar to these signs. They certainly don't mark out territory wherever they settle though!

Seanchai

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

the Irish people gave Sean that right as a concession in a "peace by any means" agreement. Or does that only apply to the bits that suit?

Christ almighty. You have to be trolling because nobody could be this ignorant, and cowardly to ascribe their idiocy to another poster.

People born in the part of Ireland currently known as "Northern Ireland" have a birthright under Irish law to Irish citizenship since the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956. 1956. Check it out.

Now, please spare us your abject ignorance on this topic.

I note also you have wilfully failed to answer any of the substantive points put to you by other posters as well. A sure sign of a troll.

Ghandee

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Just as well the Republicans stay above all that then isnt it?

My God.

Take a trip up Harryville in Ballymena,(or any other 'staunchly unionist' area, any time from say.... June until August. (all in honour of one single day in July btw)

Its like they need to convince themselves what country they're in.

The same degree of flags and emblems are not on display in Republican areas.

Something odd about that, its like members of the nationalist community dont need to constantly remoind themselves where it is they live, or which country they belong to.

Guy:Incognito

Seanchai wrote: »

I note also you have wilfully failed to answer any of the substantive points put to you by other posters as well. A sure sign of a troll.

What ones? I've answered anythign put to me from what I can see.


Theres plenty of posts quoting me that are edited though.

fasttalkerchat

Ghandee wrote: »

My God.

Take a trip up Harryville in Ballymena, any time from say.... June until August. (all in honour of one single day in July btw)

I wouldn't recommend he do that. I would hate for any harm to come to the poster regardless of our difference of opinion. And the same goes for and southern unionists here, the people you align yourselves with would kick you to death just for your accent.

fasttalkerchat

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Theres plenty of posts quoting me that are edited though.
Last edited by Guy:Incognito; Today at 21:55.

:eek::p:p:p:p

Guy:Incognito

Border-Rat wrote: »

Headed to the ASDA outpost with no intentions of going near local businesses..

Bull. A large proportion of the cars going to Newry go to one of the 2 shopping centres. So unless your following all the people to make sure they are only going to one shop, your embellishing.

Sound of Silence blames Sainsburys btw.

Border-Rat wrote: »

I'm responding to rebuttal that the border Counties do not suffer because Southerners shop there. Which in fact hurts those areas further still, ASDA in Strabane is not placed next to a former border checkpoint for no reason. Its there to exploit the difference in currency - to the demise further of the local economy.
..

Your responding like that because it suites you. It doesnt matter whether the north is part of the UK, Ireland or out on its own, large multiples will be there and thats where people will shop until such times as they decide to shop local. You cant just decide its a problem in the North becaus eits part of the UK and all would be rosy if it was suddenly a 32 county Ireland.

Border-Rat wrote: »

No Country prospers while partitioned. Ireland will never hit 5th gear seperated. As for myself, I'm a Nationalist. Economically and ideologically.

What would be different were Ireland suddenly to have 6 more counties and 1.8 m more people that would turn around the economy?

Real answers, not bluster like above.

Northern Monkey

SocSocPol wrote: »

Why not? That was the address of the hotel and thats what ALL the roadsigns called it once I entered the UK at Aughnacloy.

This hotel?
http://www.hastingshotels.com/everglades-hotel/index.html

With the following address?

Everglades Hotel,
Prehen Road,
Derry, BT47 2NH,
Telephone: +44 (0) 28 7132 1066,
Fax: +44 (0) 28 7134 9200

Their website must have been hacked by them IRA shinners or something:rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

:eek::p:p:p:p

Well that reasoned debate puts that to bed anyway.:rolleyes:

Just as well the debate wasnt about failing to answer posts properly.......

SocSocPol

Ghandee wrote: »

My God.

Take a trip up Harryville in Ballymena,(or any other 'staunchly unionist' area, any time from say.... June until August. (all in honour of one single day in July btw)

Its like they need to convince themselves what country they're in.

The same degree of flags and emblems are not on display in Republican areas.

Something odd about that, its like members of the nationalist community dont need to constantly remoind themselves where it is they live, or which country they belong to.

That I will agree with, the amount of flags, bunting, painted footpaths is an eyesore and a deterrant to tourism.
In plain fact it is ugly.
When someone makes a valid point you have to agree.

Sound of Silence

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

large multiples will be there and thats where people will shop until such times as they decide to shop local. You cant just decide its a problem in the North becaus eits part of the UK and all would be rosy if it was suddenly a 32 county Ireland.

Are you serious?

The only time Southerners ever turn up to Newry in their droves is during Christmas, and that's to make a bee-line for Sainsbury's and the drinks aisle.

Seeing that I work in the South and I'm paid in Euros, I can guarantee you that Newry would be the last place I would go shopping. That is, unless I want to lose a fortune in exchange rates.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The signs going from Germany to Switzerland dont list every difference between the coundtries either but knowing that you've just changed countries allows you to use any knowledge you already have and combine it with the ability to fnd out new information if you want.
God forbid we let peopel know where they are.

MagicSean wrote: »

They tell you you are in a different country. The rest is a logical deduction based on that information.

If people don't know where they are then that's their problem. Anyone who's clueless enough not to know that Sligo and Enniskillen are in different jurisdictions would probably think "Welcome To Northern Ireland" just means they are in a different region or county of Ireland. All this guff about people needing to know that the currency etc or rules of the road have changed is just that, guff. As if people really need to know this kind of stuff in the middle of nowhere, what good is knowing that the local currency has changed until they arrive at their destination or stop off along the way? If people don't know these things in advance all the road signs in the world won't make a difference. It's not like they can't find these things out when they need to! Maybe all the pound sterling symbols on signs along the road will give the game away?!

MagicSean wrote: »

So you honestly believe that it is not necessary to notify people that they will be in a different country with different laws?

It hasn't been necessary up to now and it isn't necessary now either. Anyone with even minimal knowledge of the political situation in Ireland will know there are two states on the island. The current speed limit signs are enough to know that the jurisdiction has changed.

Honestly, do people on this thread really believe that this is just a case of simple marking of international borders? Do people forget that partition is still a sensitive issue around the border areas? That this is just unionists marking their territory? Some people are just naive or deliberately obtuse.

SocSocPol

Northern Monkey wrote: »

This hotel?
http://www.hastingshotels.com/everglades-hotel/index.html

With the following address?

Everglades Hotel,
Prehen Road,
Derry, BT47 2NH,
Telephone: +44 (0) 28 7132 1066,
Fax: +44 (0) 28 7134 9200

Their website must have been hacked by them IRA shinners or something:rolleyes:

http://www.hotels.com/de1650652/hotels-near-londonderry-londonderry-united-kingdom/

Guy:Incognito

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Are you serious?

The only time Southerners ever turn up to Newry in their droves is during Christmas, and that's to make a bee-line for Sainsbury's and the drinks aisle.

Seeing that I work in the South and I'm paid in Euros, I can guarantee you that Newry would be the last place I would go shopping. That is, unless I want to lose a fortune in exchange rates.

Yes I am. Border Rat doesnt seem to think they only head up at Christmas or to Sainsburys. Everyone cant be right.

Theres a massive opinion in the south that the North is dirt cheap. The last few times I've been up had nothing to do with shopping and were done on weekdays but there was still plenty of southern reg cars heading over the border .

Where To

Border-Rat wrote: »

The Everglades is in a Nationalist area. In fact, its quite close to a staunchly Republican area. The employee's, in all probability, don't share you're Unionist outlook.

Where, Newbuildings?:pac:

Everglades is about as Londonderry as you can get.

geneyuss

SocSocPol wrote: »

http://www.hotels.com/de1650652/hotels-near-londonderry-londonderry-united-kingdom/

http://www.travelodge.ie/derry-hotel

http://www.onetime.com/hotels?talid=186482&source=ot_msn_uk_hotel_derry&taparam=EOTMSNUK_K52773205_A341782811_NS&supmt=e&mcid=13219&supai=801718216


We could be here all night, suffice to say, its Derry City in County Derry.

Ghandee

Where To wrote: »

Where, Newbuildings?:pac:

Everglades is about as Londonderry as you can get.

I'd have to agree here.

Bigoted hole, (from a nationalist POV)

Was subject to many a negative news article over the years, including mass goers cars being targeted, and catholic houses being burned out.

Cienciano

It's better than a port a cabin selling fireworks.

Ghandee

Cienciano wrote: »

It's better than a port a cabin selling fireworks.

Eh?

Pride Fighter

ardmacha wrote: »

it is bad enough being at the butt end of the British Empire without signs gloating about the fact.

If they were really gloating about it they would say welcome to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Just Northern Ireland is fine and not gloating in any way IMO.