Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

leeroybrown

It's important to have signs so Peter Darragh Quinn can be 100% sure that his greedy deceitful hands are safely across the border in the separate legal jurisdiction of Northern Ireland.

geneyuss

for the last time

Pride Fighter wrote: »

If they were really gloating about it they would say welcome to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Just Northern Ireland is fine and not gloating in any way IMO.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'll take the one instance from this page. I'm not searchign back through all your posts. If it makes you feel better I'll retract the word repeatedly for you.

of course you will

LordSutch

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Its constitutionally Northern Ireland by the will of the majority of people. However it is only a very slight majority of people there consider themselves British or Northern Irish

Nationalists and those I describe as "cultural nationalists" there say "the north" and describe themselves as Irish. A lot of them are embarrassed about the term "Northern Ireland" because it suggests they are less Irish than those from the 26

So expecting these signs to last in border areas is silly beyond belief.

I understand, but (seriously) would the signs not be helpful in the practical ways I suggest in post #290.

Hope Nodin has gone to bed, bites nails

Genghis Khan.

Fenian Army wrote: »

Its mad how people can think a scumbag like Ervine was a "decent guy". Just how low is the bar someone needs to measure up to qualify as a "decent guy"? Its like when spence died you had people singing his praises too, and he was one of the worst people this island has had the misfortune to spawn.

I think he was a complete sectarian dirtbag who had a few redeeming qualities, like everyone does.

You probably think Gerry Adams and Martin Mcguinness are nice guys. David Ervine was just defending his people.

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

for the last time

Yes, the AND you underlined is what makes the name mean that Northern Ireland IS NOT in Britain.

Seriously? am I being filmed here or somthing?

geneyuss wrote: »

Originally Posted by Pride Fighter

If they were really gloating about it they would say welcome to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Just Northern Ireland is fine and not gloating in any way IMO

Fenian Army

LordSutch wrote: »

I understand, but (seriously) would the signs not be helpful in the practical ways I suggest in post #290.

Hope Nodin has gone to bed, bites nails

You already have signs saying welcome to county x, and other signs explaining the different speed limits etc.

So adding in another sign is simply a case of, as others have said, pissing on a lampost and stirring things up.

TheChizler

geneyuss wrote: »

for the last time

If you got off the ferry in Fishguard for instance and saw that sign, would you be confused as to why you were being welcomed to Northern Ireland? It's just a name for the regions as a collective.

Sound of Silence

LordSutch wrote: »

I understand, but (seriously) would the signs not be helpful in the practical ways I suggest in post #290.

Hope Nodin has gone to bed, bites nails

The problem is that the signs do not fulfil your purpose in any way.

Beyond signalling that the person has entered Northern Ireland, they fail to provide any other information. It would have to be assumed that said person would already be aware of any pertinent differences between the two Countries, unless they hope to pull into a Tourist Office and ask for more info.

If a tourist in Ireland really was struggling with the differences between our two Countries, I doubt he would be suddenly enlightened by some sign in a ditch passing him at 40MPH.

LordSutch

In reply to Fenian army, County x means nothing to tourists though, and surely even people from down south would welcome the signs which warns them of the diffenences I highlight in post#290. Anyway, if local people don't like the signs then they should complain and resolve the issue properly. Glead people arent shooting at each other that's for sure.

Goodnight.

Guy:Incognito

Will somebody with opposing views to me on all the other points in this thread please explain to Geneyuss that the name The United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Northern Ireland does not say that Northern Ireland is in Britain and in fact makes a point that its not. On thread please if you dont mind.

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I've already answered. If your goign to demand quick answers at least check if your too slow for that.

Now, we'll come back to your demands later. I asked you first how he was wrong.

ive already answered that,,,keep up

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Will somebody with opposing views to me on all the other points in this thread please explain to Geneyuss that the name The United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Northern Ireland does not say that Northern Ireland is in Britain and in fact makes a point that its not. On thread please if you dont mind.

oh my,,,how embarrassing, are you gunna tell your ma next??

TheChizler

Sound of Silence wrote: »

The problem is that the signs do not fulfil your purpose in any way.

Beyond signalling that the person has entered Northern Ireland, they fail to provide any other information. It would have to be assumed that said person would already be aware of any pertinent differences between the two Countries, unless they hope to pull into a Tourist Office and ask for more info.

If a tourist in Ireland really was struggling with the differences between our two Countries, I doubt he would be suddenly enlightened by some sign in a ditch passing him at 40MPH.

In fairness it is absolutely handy to know when you're entering another country, or leaving one. When you enter Germany from France you don't get a massive sign stating all the relevant laws. Although I can't be sure about that one

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

ive already answered that,,,keep up

No you havnt. You havnt shown how the name says that Northern Ireland is in Britain. In fact ,in your last explaination you highlighted the word that shows how its not in Britain.

The Very Hungry Catterpillar

Where is Alastair?

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

oh my,,,how embarrassing, are you gunna tell your ma next??

I might do. She's german but still understands the ENglish languages better than you seem to. Maybe she'll explain it to you.

TheChizler

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No you havnt. You havnt shown how the name says that Northern Ireland is in Britain. In fact ,in your last explaination you highlighted the word that shows how its not in Britain.

I suppose the argument would make some sense if the sign said "Welcome to Great Britain and Northern Ireland", but "United Kingdom of ..." changes the meaning, so much so that I can't believe that it's an issue at all...

Sound of Silence

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

Exactly my point. That was very bad government. But it doesn't mean that a state can't exist in co existence with the Irish government. If Stormont would focus more on local issues for the people everyone would be better off.

Liberty is basically the point I am getting at. That is why Northern Ireland exists because in one way, Nationalists don't want it to exist but a large portion of people don't want to be ruled by Dublin. Civil war is not needed.

But how could that possibly be bad Governance! I thought you guys were the plucky Rebels who were fighting for the rights of people and Counties.

Stormont should focus on local issues? Then I guess they will tear these signs down if the local Community don't in fact want them.

I'm sorry Genghis, but unless you start a new profile under some assumed name I'm going to find it difficult to take you seriously after having read your previous posts.

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I might do. She's german but still understands the ENglish languages better than you seem to. Maybe she'll explain it to you.

Maybe she'll teach you how to spell, you "havnt" apparently grasped the English language as of yet.

AtomicHorror

Ghandee wrote: »

The reason i find it strange?

Because loyalist leaders, from the six counties considered themselves Irish.

Yet we have people from Ireland (twenty six counties) who tell us we're not.

Oh that. Yeah, that's just bollocks. That's an attempt to massively over-simplify cultural identities. It's broadly the same as those guys who get into edit wars on Wikipedia over what exact genre some awful ****ing band should be placed in.

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

Maybe she'll teach you how to spell, you "havnt" apparently grasped the English language as of yet.

Your resorting to spelling , really?

geneyuss wrote: »

oh my,,,how embarrassing, are you gunna tell your ma next??

golden lane

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Pedantic point but under EU law it is legal currency even in the streling area and has to be accepted.

no it does not.......

TheChizler

geneyuss wrote: »

Maybe she'll teach you how to spell, you "havnt" apparently grasped the English language as of yet.

Come on now. If we're being serious a spelling mistake is no demonstration of one's grasp of a language. Can we get back OT?

Dubhlinner

LordSutch wrote: »

I understand, but (seriously) would the signs not be helpful in the practical ways I suggest in post #290.

Hope Nodin has gone to bed, bites nails

yeah. though practicality is rarely a major factor in decisions there.

Guy:Incognito

TheChizler wrote: »

. Can we get back OT?

He's been on topic very few times out of the few pages this has gone on. Prefers to try to deflect and not answer. Or just outright say he didnt when he didnt.

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I might do. She's german but still understands the ENglish languages better than you seem to. Maybe she'll explain it to you.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Your resorting to spelling , really?

If i have to stoop to you level of imaturity... so be it,

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

If i have to stoop to you level of imaturity... so be it,

No. My level is asking you outright to explain your points. Which , so far you havnt.

Sound of Silence

TheChizler wrote: »

In fairness it is absolutely handy to know when you're entering another country, or leaving one. When you enter Germany from France you don't get a massive sign stating all the relevant laws. Although I can't be sure about that one

It's hardly a Culture shock when you cross the Border here. It's not as if you're going to be lost among foreigners without a well researched travel book.

The basis that this sign serves a real practical purpose is a bit misguided.

The MPH/KPH signs are a suitable indicator that the person is crossing over some international divide. Let's hope they don't panic and start wondering what Country they just crossed into. Ya know, cos' that one border on this tiny Island can confuse people...

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

He's been on topic very few times out of the few pages this has gone on. Prefers to try to deflect and not answer. Or just outright say he didnt when he didnt.

And your still of topic,,,even when asked to get back on,,,,your just going to argue and troll everyone,

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

And your still of topic,,,even when asked to get back on,,,,your just going to argue and troll everyone,

Look. I'll ask you outright again just to if you'll answer.
How does The United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Northern Ireland mean that Northern Ireland is in Brtain.

No need to quote any other posts or put in loads of commas between your words. Just an answer, thats all.

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Look. I'll ask you outright again just to if you'll answer.
How does The United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Northern Ireland mean that Northern Ireland is in Brtain.

No need to quote any other posts or put in lads of commas between your words. Just an answer, thats all.

i have already answered that same question several times, its just not getting through to you, even with another member trying to explain it to you, you completely ignored him,Its just not registering with you and i'll put as many commas as i like in my replys,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:cool:

TheChizler

Sound of Silence wrote: »

It's hardly a Culture shock when you cross the Border here. It's not as if you're going to be lost among foreigners without a well researched travel book.

The basis that this sign serves a real practical purpose is a bit misguided.

The MPH/KPH signs are a suitable indicator that the person is crossing over some international divide. Let's hope they don't panic and start wondering what Country they just crossed into. Ya know, cos' that one border on this tiny Island can confuse people...

There might be legal issues that might make a visitor not want to cross the border. If they didn't specifically know that the UK used m/h and ireland km/h they might just think that the council had neglected that part of the roads. That certainly happened me travelling to the north years ago. I didn't know that the road markings were different up north and just thought that the local council hadn't enough money to paint all the roads (I was young).

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

i have already answered that same question several times, its just not getting through to you, even with another member trying to explain it to you, you completely ignored him,Its just not registering with you and i'll put as many commas as i like in my replys,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:cool:

Who tried to explain it to me?

Throw up a quote of where you explain it, you dotn even have to type it out again.

Johro

_norniron_.jpg

There there...

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Who tried to explain it to me?

Throw up a quote of where you explain it, you dotn even have to type it out again.

you need to read or re-read the thread, not me

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

you need to read or re-read the thread, not me

No, you need to answer the question. If your going to lie and say you've explained how it means Norhtern Ireland is in Britain then I'll just say no you didnt. Surely you'll want to shut me up and post the proof?

The Chizler made a couple of attempts to explain it to you but you ignored him.

TheChizler

geneyuss wrote: »

Why would one put a sign up in N.Ireland saying Welcome to The United kingdom Of Great Britain ?? When its Not Part of Great Britain???

I think this is the closest you got.

geneyuss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No, you need to answer the question. If your going to lie and say you've explained how it means Norhtern Ireland is in Britain then I'll just say no you didnt. Surely you'll want to shut me up and post the proof?

The Chizler made a couple of attempts to explain it to you but you ignored him.

isnt in Britain :rolleyes:

Sound of Silence

TheChizler wrote: »

There might be legal issues that might make a visitor not want to cross the border. If they didn't specifically know that the UK used m/h and ireland km/h they might just think that the council had neglected that part of the roads. That certainly happened me travelling to the north years ago. I didn't know that the road markings were different up north and just thought that the local council hadn't enough money to paint all the roads (I was young).

The whole MPH/KPH issue is pretty irrelevant and would play no part in dictating where a person would or wouldn't go, unless they happen to be the most unadventurous Human Being on the planet.

If you actually considered it a real issue, I think an actual sign indicating that you've entered a MPH/KPH zone would be more appropriate than a sign that simply tells you that you've entered Northern Ireland, and provides you with absolutely no other information.

The sign serves no real practical purpose; certainly not in the sense that other posters have been arguing.

Guy:Incognito

geneyuss wrote: »

isnt in Britain :rolleyes:

No, your trying to show that what he said means its in Britain. I said it shows its not.

TheChizler

Sound of Silence wrote: »

The whole MPH/KPH issue is pretty irrelevant and would play no part in dictating where a person would or wouldn't go, unless they happen to be the most unadventurous Human Being on the planet.

If you actually considered it a real issue, I think an actual sign indicating that you've entered a MPH/KPH zone would be more appropriate than a sign that simply tells you that you've entered Northern Ireland, and provides you with absolutely no other information.

The sign serves no real practical purpose; certainly not in the sense that other posters have been arguing.

But that's my point. Coming across a MPH warning sign doesn't necessarily warn you of a new country, it certainly won't if you aren't aware of the differing standards used, for example if you were a tourist/not an Irish (in either way) resident.

Imagine you're in a situation where you aren't legally allowed to cross the border, but you have to be in a border area for whatever reason. How do you avoid crossing the border? SatNav aside, you can't make policy assuming everyone has a SatNav.

fasttalkerchat

LordSutch wrote: »

In reply to Fenian army, County x means nothing to tourists though, and surely even people from down south would welcome the signs which warns them of the diffenences I highlight in post#290. Anyway, if local people don't like the signs then they should complain and resolve the issue properly. Glead people arent shooting at each other that's for sure.

Goodnight.

Concerns were raised and the idea was dropped then the signs suddenly pop up on BBC newsline. The tourist board says it wasn't them, and Kennedy owns up. Now they're being removed and a few angry interviews were on the TV but nothing has been achieved other than a bit of real life trolling and £1000 wasted.

fasttalkerchat

TheChizler wrote: »

But that's my point. Coming across a MPH warning sign doesn't necessarily warn you of a new country, it certainly won't if you aren't aware of the differing standards used, for example if you were a tourist/not an Irish (in either way) resident.

Imagine you're in a situation where you aren't legally allowed to cross the border, but you have to be in a border area for whatever reason. How do you avoid crossing the border? SatNav aside, you can't make policy assuming everyone has a SatNav.

For this purpose hundreds of signs would be needed to cover every border crossing and this still would be of no help to any lost Chinese mountaineers without a valid visa!

EDIT: Would you put a sign here, for example?

Sound of Silence

TheChizler wrote: »

But that's my point. Coming across a MPH warning sign doesn't necessarily warn you of a new country, it certainly won't if you aren't aware of the differing standards used, for example if you were a tourist/not an Irish (in both ways) resident.

Coming across a MPH/KPH would mean that you're entering another Country. In fact it would be the clearest indication that you've entered another Country or jurisdiction.

Imagine you're in a situation where you aren't legally allowed to cross the border, but you have to be in a border area for whatever reason. How do you avoid crossing the border? SatNav aside, you can't make policy assuming everyone has a SatNav.

This is an exceedingly strange hypothetical as I would most likely have to assume that the person has not been provided with any sort of map, and yet they have to be in a very specific location - close enough to the border, but without crossing it.

I would tell them to keep an eye out for the MPH/KPH sign. If they can't see one, just look at the road; once the white line down the centre of the road ends, you're in the North. The Roads service up here don't seem to paint any small Country roads. The Road signs are also a dead giveaway as there is a very distinct difference in colour between those in the North and those in the South.

What exactly would be your solution? To place a "Welcome to Northern Ireland" sign on every major and minor road entering the North?

fasttalkerchat

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No, you need to answer the question. If your going to lie and say you've explained how it means Norhtern Ireland is in Britain then I'll just say no you didnt. Surely you'll want to shut me up and post the proof?

The Chizler made a couple of attempts to explain it to you but you ignored him.

Please just give it a rest. No one cares whether or not you said Great Britain or the UK. The point was made, you disputed it, anyone interested can read the relevant posts.

Guy:Incognito

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Please just give it a rest. No one cares whether or not you said Great Britain or the UK. The point was made, you disputed it, anyone interested can read the relevant posts.

No. I made reasoned points and was met with childish posts and deflecting. I dont see why I should give anything a rest. All Geneyuss has to do is admit to being wrong or explain his point.

If you were that interested you could have told him how hes wrong ages ago. I can only assume you think this would be seen as you admitting that Northern Ireland exists or somthing, otherwise you are free to end the arguement and explain to him how the name United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland doesnt mean Northern Ireland is in Britain.

If you dont want to do that, feel free to keep out of it and continue wth your own debate. Why you felt the need to take the person making the reasoned point and tell them to give it a rest I dont know, is it just that I disagree with you on other issues?

Sound of Silence

LordSutch wrote: »

Glead people arent shooting at each other that's for sure.

I love that he makes the assumption that somehow all Nationalists disputes are likely to end in shooting and mayhem.

Good thing this was solved quickly, otherwise the 'RA would've rode again!

TheChizler

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Coming across a MPH/KPH would mean that you're entering another Country. In fact it would be the clearest indication that you've entered another Country or jurisdiction.



This is an exceedingly strange hypothetical as I would most likely have to assume that the person has not been provided with any sort of map, and yet they have to be in a very specific location - close enough to the border, but without crossing it.

I would tell them to keep an eye out for the MPH/KPH sign. If they can't see one, just look at the road; once the white line down the centre of the road ends, you're in the North. The Roads service up here don't seem to paint any small Country roads. The Road signs are also a dead giveaway as there is a very distinct difference in colour between those in the North and those in the South.

What exactly would be your solution? To place a "Welcome to Northern Ireland" sign on every major and minor road entering the North?

I dunno, a Pakistani reporter here to report on the poorly defined border, who has attained a southern visa but not on that would cover the north. I don't know. I admitted that it was a bit out there, but it's not unfathomable that the situation would crop up. Obviously I'm not calling for coverage on every single boreen, but if they have m/km signs up I don't see what the huge hassle for country signs would be (on a practical level).

I just think it's bizarre that there's no official statement that you are passing into another jurisdiction, and you don't know unless you are aware of the code implanted in speed signs.

Sound of Silence

TheChizler wrote: »

I just think it's bizarre that there's no official statement that you are passing into another jurisdiction, and you don't know unless you are aware of the code implanted in speed signs.

Unless we throw a fence around the whole North of the Island, someone's bound to cross the Border without immediately realising that they're in the UK.

We could, however, return to the 1970's and 80's and have countless Army Checkpoints littering the Border areas to give people a good idea of what side of the divide they're on.

For now I think the small MPH/KPH signs are suitable enough for their purpose. Certainly a lot cheaper and discreet than thousands of "Welcome to Northern Ireland" signs.

Melanoma

In the UK when you enter Wales it says welcome to Whales. They have the same currency and laws. There is nothing wrong with the sign.

In most counties there is a sign saying welcome to county ... There is nothing wrong with the signs.

Sinn Fein must become a more mature party and allow some things to pass by without over reacting. There are not a main stream party till they do.

Personally I like there being no signs as it is better to just pass through without thinking about it. I think leaving no signs for a while longer would be no harm.

On the other hand the idea tourists need to know about rule changes is valid. The 100 km to 60 mph is subtle but important. I'd rather just signs stating the speed limit.

I think the tourist thing might be best served without pointing out jurisdiction issue. Not for the time being at least.