Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

Melanoma

Welcome to Whales, hehe.

Where To

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Coming across a MPH/KPH would mean that you're entering another Country. In fact it would be the clearest indication that you've entered another Country or jurisdiction.



This is an exceedingly strange hypothetical as I would most likely have to assume that the person has not been provided with any sort of map, and yet they have to be in a very specific location - close enough to the border, but without crossing it.

I would tell them to keep an eye out for the MPH/KPH sign. If they can't see one, just look at the road; once the white line down the centre of the road ends, you're in the North. The Roads service up here don't seem to paint any small Country roads. The Road signs are also a dead giveaway as there is a very distinct difference in colour between those in the North and those in the South.

What exactly would be your solution? To place a "Welcome to Northern Ireland" sign on every major and minor road entering the North?

That's not true.

Road markings on country roads on Donegal and Derry vary according to the contractor, not the jurisdiction.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=leiter+culdaff&hl=en&ll=55.301402,-7.172871&spn=0.049348,0.165825&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=35.136115,84.902344&hnear=Culdaff,+County+Donegal,+Ireland&t=m&z=13&layer=c&cbll=55.301144,-7.172849&panoid=0-nLjPRtYJO1Guzv5A_J0A&cbp=12,37.77,,0,0


https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Carmoney+Road,+Eglinton,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=55.020777,-7.236407&spn=0.006212,0.020728&sll=55.301109,-7.172871&sspn=0.04974,0.165825&oq=carmoney+road+&hnear=Carmoney+Rd,+Eglinton,+Londonderry,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=55.02074,-7.235516&panoid=AtI72aXiEbcZxK3pyCXucQ&cbp=12,101.24,,0,2.83

TheChizler

Sound of Silence wrote: »

TheChizler wrote: »

I just think it's bizarre that there's no official statement that you are passing into another jurisdiction, and you don't know unless you are aware of the code implanted in speed signs.

Unless we throw a fence around the whole North of the Island, someone's bound to cross the Border without immediately realising that they're in the UK.

We could, however, return to the 1970's and 80's and have countless Army Checkpoints littering the Border areas to give people a good idea of what side of the divide they're on.

For now I think the small MPH/KPH signs are suitable enough for their purpose. Certainly a lot cheaper and discreet than thousands of "Welcome to Northern Ireland" signs.

Oh course I'm not saying we fence off the north. I just think it weird as its the norm when driving from county to county and country to country both here and abroad.

I think it's unfortunate that the reason that there are no signs is either cause the locals are in denial, or for political reasons, in this case not willing to admit that they're deprecate countries. I also would think it unfortunate if the signs were up purely to distance them, as Is what happened this time. The signs are just a statement of fact and emotions and politics shouldn't come into it.

I find it bizarre that there is so much denial that we have pseudo boundary signs in the form of speed warnings.

awec

Don't see the issue. It's entertaining in fact.

Every so often when Sinn Fein start to panic that they're getting too cosy with the DUP they come out with nonsense like this to appease their more politically simple minded supporters. It usually works, they're pretty good at it by this stage. There's a reason it's a nobody like Phil Flanagan coming out with it though.

The uber-republicans will lap it up as some sort of victory when the signs disappear while everyone else looks on in a sense of bemusement.

Hopefully they keep replacing them, the continual yapping over a sign will amuse me further. Maybe the next ones could say "Welcome to the United Kingdom" just to take it up a notch, that'd really make them moist. Once we get the likes of Barry "Da Comoontay" McElduff or Conor "No Prods" Murphy commenting we're in business. And of course, let's not forget Director of Unionist Engagement (:pac:) Martina Anderson, she's bound to have some interesting views given her role.

If ye can't be light hearted about crap like this, when can ye be?

im invisible

but, aren't we all part of the British Isles anyway???:pac:

TheChizler

awec wrote: »

Don't see the issue. It's entertaining in fact.

Every so often when Sinn Fein start to panic that they're getting too cosy with the DUP they come out with nonsense like this to appease their more politically simple minded supporters. It usually works, they're pretty good at it by this stage. There's a reason it's a nobody like Phil Flanagan coming out with it though.

The uber-republicans will lap it up as some sort of victory when the signs disappear while everyone else looks on in a sense of bemusement.

Unfortunately I think you've hit the nail on the head.

johne30

TheChizler wrote: »

Unfortunately I think you've hit the nail on the head.

LOOK THE SHINNERS MISSED THE BOAT . why didn't they insist on a new border commision before agreeing to th g f agrement . a new b commision was the way to go and would have returned parts of the border areas on n i side back to the irish state. blair was a gangster and would have agreed to anything to be famous but the s fein give in and signed it and there is no goin back now.

Genghis Khan.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

But how could that possibly be bad Governance! I thought you guys were the plucky Rebels who were fighting for the rights of people and Counties.

Stormont should focus on local issues? Then I guess they will tear these signs down if the local Community don't in fact want them.

I'm sorry Genghis, but unless you start a new profile under some assumed name I'm going to find it difficult to take you seriously after having read your previous posts.

We don't live in 1969. Perhaps you should realise that the sun doesn't shine out of the arse of Dublin.

jaykay74

I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes
I saw the sign
life is demanding without understanding
I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes
I saw the sign
no one's gonna drag you up
to get into the light where you belong
but where do you belong

Crooked Jack

awec wrote: »

Don't see the issue. It's entertaining in fact.

Every so often when Sinn Fein start to panic that they're getting too cosy with the DUP they come out with nonsense like this to appease their more politically simple minded supporters. It usually works, they're pretty good at it by this stage. There's a reason it's a nobody like Phil Flanagan coming out with it though.

The uber-republicans will lap it up as some sort of victory when the signs disappear while everyone else looks on in a sense of bemusement.

Hopefully they keep replacing them, the continual yapping over a sign will amuse me further. Maybe the next ones could say "Welcome to the United Kingdom" just to take it up a notch, that'd really make them moist. Once we get the likes of Barry "Da Comoontay" McElduff or Conor "No Prods" Murphy commenting we're in business. And of course, let's not forget Director of Unionist Engagement (:pac:) Martina Anderson, she's bound to have some interesting views given her role.

If ye can't be light hearted about crap like this, when can ye be?

lighthearted? That was a little bit too bitter to be lighthearted.

LordSutch

Sound of Silence wrote: »

The whole MPH/KPH issue is pretty irrelevant and would play no part in dictating where a person would or wouldn't go, unless they happen to be the most unadventurous Human Being on the planet.

If you actually considered it a real issue, I think an actual sign indicating that you've entered a MPH/KPH zone would be more appropriate than a sign that simply tells you that you've entered Northern Ireland, and provides you with absolutely no other information.

The sign serves no real practical purpose; certainly not in the sense that other posters have been arguing.

But what about telling people that they are now entering the Sterling/GBP zone, and that the speed signs will now be in Miles Per Hour (reset your Speedo), that the traffic lights have a different sequence (extra Orange) and that they are in a new jurisdiction (as part of the UK), that you have now moved out of the jurisdiction of the Republic of Ireland. What about informing tourists that the telephone codes Vodafone UK/ O2 UK/ Orange UK mobile network/ have changed, and letting the driver know that you are now policed by the PSNI and not the Gardai, different laws, different rules of the road, sterling used in the shops etc . . . .

I think tourists would certainly benefit from the signs, and why not signal the fact that you are leaving the Republic and entering the UK? its a fact as you cross the border. I do understand that many peoplw wish the border didn't exist in the 1st place - but it does - and these signs inform drivers of the changes which I have highlighted above.

Would signs saying "YOU ARE NOW ENTERING ING THE UK" be any better?

mackg

If the signs are that important could we not just stick them on our side and have them say "You are now leaving the Republic of Ireland"?

If the problem is the term "Northern Ireland" surely that negates it.

Ghandee

LordSutch wrote: »

But what about telling people that they are now entering the Sterling/GBP zone, and that the speed signs will now be in Miles Per Hour (reset your Speedo), that the traffic lights have a different sequence (extra Orange) and that they are in a new jurisdiction (as part of the UK), that you have now moved out of the jurisdiction of the Republic of Ireland. What about informing tourists that the telephone codes Vodafone UK/ O2 UK/ Orange UK mobile network/ have changed, and letting the driver know that you are now policed by the PSNI and not the Gardai, different laws, different rules of the road, sterling used in the shops etc . . . .

I think tourists would certainly benefit from the signs, and why not signal the fact that you are leaving the Republic and entering the UK? its a fact as you cross the border. I do understand that many peoplw wish the border didn't exist in the 1st place - but it does - and these signs inform drivers of the changes which I have highlighted above.

Would signs saying "YOU ARE NOW ENTERING ING THE UK" be any better?

I've travelled from Holland to Belgium recently, didn't notice any of these signs tbh.

(open to correction on this, but certainly never noticed them)

My flemish speaking friend (Belgian) told me that 'you'd know you've entered Holland when the road changed'
As she said it, the car went over a slight bump, and the tarmacadam changed slightly. Then roadsigns changed, cars had coherent reg plates etc etc.

I find it strange that one section of the community in the north continually need to remind themselves where in the world they are.

philologos

mackg wrote: »

If the signs are that important could we not just stick them on our side and have them say "You are now leaving the Republic of Ireland"?

If the problem is the term "Northern Ireland" surely that negates it.

Its nonsense though. Would they prefer welcome to the United Kingdom? People need to realise that Northern Ireland is a part of the UK and most people including Catholics want it to stay that way in the latest opinion polls.

This is just a waste of time that could be spent on more important issues.

To note in most other EU land borders they do clearly tell you that you're leaving the country. If you're going to be bound to different laws that makes sense.

gurramok

philologos wrote: »

People need to realise that Northern Ireland is a part of the UK and most people including Catholics want it to stay that way in the latest opinion polls.

Not in the last election, they voted SF and SDLP. Interesting that the SDLP have been quiet on this issue so far, not condemning the signs removal.

LordSutch

Ghandee wrote: »

I've travelled from Holland to Belgium recently, didn't notice any of these signs tbh.

(open to correction on this, but certainly never noticed them)

My flemish speaking friend (Belgian) told me that 'you'd know you've entered Holland when the road changed'
As she said it, the car went over a slight bump, and the tarmacadam changed slightly. Then roadsigns changed, cars had coherent reg plates etc etc.

I find it strange that one section of the community in the north continually need to remind themselves where in the world they are.

But what about the spacific points I mention in post#412 re tourists?

mackg

philologos wrote: »

Its nonsense though. Would they prefer welcome to the United Kingdom? People need to realise that Northern Ireland is a part of the UK and most people including Catholics want it to stay that way in the latest opinion polls.

This is just a waste of time that could be spent on more important issues.

To note in most other EU land borders they do clearly tell you that you're leaving the country. If you're going to be bound to different laws that makes sense.

I've no real interest in getting dragged into this too much I was just offering a common sense alternative.

I don't really see the problem with the signs but then again I'm not familiar with the issues up there and don't really understand the nuances of the relationship between the two communities.

Chuck Stone

I'm sure if SF countered this.. 'territory marking' by seeking that 'Welcome To Ireland' signs be placed at the airports and ferry ports the issue would be quickly dropped.

A simple sign like this is all I could find on entering the six counties from the the Dublin direction on the main route between Ireland's two most populous cities.

Not much further up the road you have a bloody big sign offering currency exchange services.

Ghandee

LordSutch wrote: »

But what about the spacific points I mention in post#412 re tourists?

But Netherlands/Belgium would get their fair share of tourists also.
They have different laws (cannabis being one thing that jumps at me here)
In some regions, they speak completely different languages.
Different police forces.

philologos

gurramok wrote: »

Not in the last election, they voted SF and SDLP. Interesting that the SDLP have been quiet on this issue so far, not condemning the signs removal.

It's possible that some SDLP and SF voters aren't anti-union in the same way that not all Tories are anti-EU. For this reason the poll that clean out asks purely on the union rather than party affiliation is logically better.

LordSutch

Different Currency, different Phone networks/codes, road signage/Speed signs, traffic light sequence? new jusisdiction, do tourists need to know?

air assault

Its only taking them since 1921/22 to finally put up theses signs. Kinda funny how the relationship between the two parts of Ireland has gradually gotten better.

Ghandee

What's the different traffic light sequence?

I'm down here seven years, genuinely haven't noticed the light sequence?

All other points outlined apply to tourists entering Belgium from Holland and vice versa with the exception of the currency.

awec

Ghandee wrote: »

What's the different traffic light sequence?

I'm down here seven years, genuinely haven't noticed the light sequence?

All other points outlined apply to tourists entering Belgium from Holland and vice versa with the exception of the currency.

The only difference I can think of is the flashing orange arrows you get down here that you don't get up home.

ejmaztec

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

We don't live in 1969. Perhaps you should realise that the sun doesn't shine out of the arse of Dublin.

The sun doesn't shine in Ireland, out of arses or anywhere else for that matter.:(

Melanoma

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm sure if SF countered this.. 'territory marking' by seeking that 'Welcome To Ireland' signs be placed at the airports and ferry ports the issue would be quickly dropped.

A simple sign like this is all I could find on entering the six counties from the the Dublin direction on the main route between Ireland's two most populous cities.

Not much further up the road you have a bloody big sign offering currency exchange services.

Yes I think its a politically easy on the eye and less making a big deal out of it. I think is tourists see no real border sign then they will go home saying you'd hardly know you were crossing and that would put them at ease more that the old days are gone. But it would be better and its coming when it wont matter that proper signs will go up, just nobody will care.

billybudd

The signs where not needed and just used as a political tool.


Some current Unionists and nationlists will just not move on.

Ghandee

Ghandee wrote: »

What's the different traffic light sequence?

I'm down here seven years, genuinely haven't noticed the light sequence?

All other points outlined apply to tourists entering Belgium from Holland and vice versa with the exception of the currency.

You don't have the "get set" amber when changing from red to green.
NI
red
red/amber
green


ROI
Red
green

Ghandee

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't have the "get set" amber when changing from red to green.
NI
red
red/amber
green


ROI
Red
green

Are you sure?

Their are three different lights on traffic lights, north and south?

Ghandee

Ghandee wrote: »

Are you sure?

Their are three different lights on traffic lights, north and south?

he said when changing from red to green, not how many lights there are

haulagebasher

Varied wrote: »

That's right Sean, lets ignore half the population of the north who consider themselves Irish. This served no purpose and no consultation took place.

I bet if it was the catholic/Irish community that erected Irish signs on the border youd surely be on your high horse about it.

Can one not identify oneself as irish and British also? And if not why not? Just like one can consider onself English/Welsh/Scottish and also British.I consider myself irish and British you know. Just becasue I am pro-union does not automatically mean that I am anti-irish - I'm not anti irish at all.As for the signs, SF are just at it again. Ignore them. Only harliner Republicans will be phased by this, no-one else cares really.
The level of anti-British bile in this country is sickening sometimes. I blame in large part the education system in the south which is totally biased and rams Republican/Nationalist propaganda into kids. Thus it's no surprise there are so many armchair/barstool republicans about. I should know, my primary school headmaster in Tipperary was a pure RA head.

Ghandee

bluewolf wrote: »

he said when changing from red to green, not how many lights there are

Genuine response here.

Do the lights in the south go, red-red-green? Green-red-red?

I'm colour blind, so the subtle difference in the red/amber doesn't really stand out to me.

gurramok

philologos wrote: »

It's possible that some SDLP and SF voters aren't anti-union in the same way that not all Tories are anti-EU. For this reason the poll that clean out asks purely on the union rather than party affiliation is logically better.

Nice sidestep. Where are the pro-union SDLP and SF voters? They've been awfully quiet since those parties were founded.

billybudd

Ghandee wrote: »

Genuine response here.

Do the lights in the south go, red-red-green? Green-red-red?

I'm colour blind, so the subtle difference in the red/amber doesn't really stand out to me.

Red - orange - green --- green - orange - red

Ghandee

billybudd wrote: »

Red - orange - green --- green - orange - red

That's how they work in the north too though

billybudd

billybudd wrote: »

Red - orange - green --- green - orange - red

they don't go orange from red to green here
they go red then green

billybudd

bluewolf wrote: »

they don't go orange from red to green here
they go red then green

Yeah i should really pay more attention to lights

Ghandee

bluewolf wrote: »

they don't go orange from red to green here
they go red then green

Ok, so the signs will now remind me of the different light settings too.

Don't really believe its a valid reason to erect signs though.

(I've been driving half my life and gotten by up to now. )

Chuck Stone

haulagebasher wrote: »

As for the signs, SF are just at it again. Ignore them. Only harliner Republicans will be phased by this, no-one else cares really.

The signs are provocative. They'd have done better to leave well alone. They've been systematically de-politicising the border now since the PP by removing check points, watch towers, army barracks and by rebuilding roads and bridges that were blocked off with boulders or demolished.

Whoever decided to put up the signs is either deliberately trying to provoke a reaction or hasn't a clue about political sensitivities on the ground.

I suspect the former.

Edit:

The signs are the responsibility of the Roads Service, a devision of the Department of Regional Development, with the minister being Ulster Unionist Party’s Danny Kennedy.

Traditional Unionist Voice Leader Jim Allister commended the Minister on the erection of the “Welcome to Northern Ireland” signs along the border.

Mr. Allister said:

“I am glad that Mr Kennedy has taken action. These signs are a useful reminder that traffic laws in the United Kingdom differ from those in the Republic and indeed it is only polite to welcome foreign nationals into our Province.”

Source

Good old Jim Allister trolling away and still living in a Unionist dominated fantasy land long since gone.

haulagebasher

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The signs are provocative. They'd have done better to leave well alone. They've been systematically de-politicising the border now since the PP by removing check points, watch towers, army barracks and by rebuilding roads and bridges that were blocked off with boulders or demolished.

Whoever decided to put up the signs is either deliberately trying to provoke a reaction or hasn't a clue about political sensitivities on the ground.

I suspect the former.

By that logic we should be taking down all the brown signs that say "Welcome to County Cork/Waterford/whereever" just in case, god forbid, the people of the neighbouring County got offended.Too much PC pussyfooting around these days. The signs are informative only. IF they had a Union flag background or whatever, that might be provocative but there just small signs.Don't get me started on having an Irish translation on it. Shure even in the south, who ever actually reads the irish text on a road sign? - thats right, no-one. It just clutters up the sign and results in the English version being smaller and harder to read. Like it or Lump it English is our first language. Bi-lingual me arse. The cupla focal does not an irish speaker make.

Sonics2k

bluewolf wrote: »

they don't go orange from red to green here
they go red then green

Damned crazy foreigners.

fasttalkerchat

bluewolf wrote: »

they don't go orange from red to green here
they go red then green

Is that not just in Dublin centre? I never noticed it in the rest of the country.

Chuck Stone

haulagebasher wrote: »

The signs are informative only.

The signs don't even tell people they are entering a MPH graded road network. The signs are just territory marking and rekindling old memories of the border and all the misery that went with it.

What would be wrong with a simple sign saying 'Welcome to County Tyrone - speed limits in MPH'?

These are roads we're talking about not international air and ferry ports.

Ghandee

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Is that not just in Dublin centre? I never noticed it in the rest of the country.

The pedestrian crossing lights at Naas (beside Tesco extra) just went red, flashed orange, then green....

Silly argument anyway.

Ghandee

Ghandee wrote: »

The pedestrian crossing lights at Naas (beside Tesco extra) just went red, flashed orange, then green....

Silly argument anyway.

well yeah they do at pedestrian ones

awec

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The signs are provocative.

Anyone provoked by a sign that says "Welcome to Northern Ireland" should go and get their head felt. Some people must lead absolutely miserable lives if this sort of thing annoys them. :pac:

Ghandee

awec wrote: »

Anyone provoked by a sign that says "Welcome to Northern Ireland" should go and get their head felt. Some people must lead absolutely miserable lives if this sort of thing annoys them. :pac:

That's easy for you to say as your location is Dublin.

Some people in the border areas affected obviously are offended by it though.

As previously pointed out, I'd imagine their could be outrage by unionists if signs were erected at Belfast or Derry airports saying 'welcome to the island of Ireland'

Same argument.

Chuck Stone

awec wrote: »

Anyone provoked by a sign that says "Welcome to Northern Ireland" should go and get their head felt. Some people must lead absolutely miserable lives if this sort of thing annoys them. :pac:

It's a welcome through clenched teeth. It's territory marking. We could be doing without it heading back down that path.

It's predictable what will happen. The signs will be continuously vandalised. People will spray 'Occupied' over 'Northern', they'll be pulled out of the ground.

MagicSean

If the term northern Ireland is so offensive then why has there been no uproar over the Northern Ireland tourism ads all over YouTube and the tv?

Seanchai

awec wrote: »

Anyone provoked by a sign that says "Welcome to Northern Ireland" should go and get their head felt. Some people must lead absolutely miserable lives if this sort of thing annoys them. :pac:

Great, then, let's just put a sign up saying "Welcome to the Occupied Six Counties", and place it in a loyalist heartland like Ballymena. Anybody annoyed by this clearly apolitical unprovocative move "should get their head felt". :rolleyes: