Stonewall Cider

enda1

I'm down in the lovely kinsale at the moment and saw an ad for this cider which is produced locally. Does anyone have an idea how it is? I'll try get in a bottle later anyways and report back.

tommy2bad

It's a good cider, comes in two types dry which is still apple'er than bulmers and medium which is only georgeous.
Bit pricey though but worth it as a treat.

(is apple'er a word? is now )

irish_goat

I've had the medium dry and it's lovely, has a real nice refreshing apple juice taste to it.

bamboozle

the medium dry is a beautiful cider, well worth the expense.

Chris.Buckley

Are there any off licenses that sell this in the city?

tommy2bad

I get it in Kilkenny so I imagine it's fairly well distributed, should be able to get it pretty much everywhere.

BeerNut

Chris.Buckley wrote: »

Are there any off licenses that sell this in the city?

Cork City? Bradley's on North Main Street are bound to have it. Abbot's on Devonshire Street quite likely to as well.

Chris.Buckley

BeerNut wrote: »

Cork City?

Yeah thanks! it's been on the back of my mind to get some for a while, but I forgot until this thread because I couldn't find it outside a pub..

Carry Out on Bandon Road have loads of it. They have a decent range of Irish craft beers etc.

eurokev

Deleted User wrote: »

Carry Out on Bandon Road have loads of it. They have a decent range of Irish craft beers etc.

Ya they distribute it, they've got a great range too, I actually mentioned this drink in an earlier thread, its one of the nicest drinks I have ever tried

http://galvinswines.ie/

https://twitter.com/Galvins_Wines

enda1

Damn it, I never ended up tasting it. Grrr

grenache

Gorgeous cider. But they are shooting themselves in the foot by asking for €4 for it.

Ridiculous and unwarranted price. My boss won't stock it because it's too dear.

BeerNut

grenache wrote: »

they are shooting themselves in the foot by asking for €4 for it.

Ridiculous and unwarranted price. My boss won't stock it because it's too dear.

Irish cider has two huge problems:
1. People think it's basically like beer and should cost about the same.
2. People think Bulmers is cider.

Neither of those is true and, personally, I don't think enough is being done to educate the public and trade about it.

If you and he reckon €6+ is reasonable for 75cl of wine it should be reasonable for the same amount of cider, pro rata.

grenache

BeerNut wrote: »

If you and he reckon €6+ is reasonable for 75cl of wine it should be reasonable for the same amount of cider, pro rata.

But the wine you buy here is produced outside of Ireland, and is thus subject to extra taxes such as import duty. Cider does not have any import tax imposed on it as it is Irish produced.

Also, wine grapes grow almost exclusively between 30 and 50 degrees latitude north and south of the equator, and so are produced in only a limited number of countries. It's possible to produce cider nearly anywhere as you don't require such stringent conditions for growing apples as you do wine grapes. Thus the real demand for cider is less as the production of it is more numerous, relatively speaking.

I agree with you on the branding though, Bulmers sells well for an expensive cider because consumers buy into the advertising lark about it being a "premium cider". Drink a can of Bulmers and then drink a can of Strongbow (made by Bulmers also). There is little difference if any between the two, except in the price, where Bulmers is 40-50 cent more per can.

Tazz T

Strongbow is far nicer IMO. Great in a pint up north.

grenache

Tazz T wrote: »

Strongbow is far nicer IMO. Great in a pint up north.

That's the Britsh Stongbow, the one made in Herefordshire. Totally different in taste to our one made in Clonmel. But yes i agree, it's a decent cider.

bamboozle

Stonewell Cider is far nice than Bulmers & Strongbow, tried the much raved about Armagh Cider and much preferred Stonewell, ok its expensive but i reckon its worth it. Went to the craftbeer festival in the rds in Sept with a few mates and they all loved Stonewell and Tom Crean larger.

grenache

bamboozle wrote: »

Stonewell Cider is far nice than Bulmers & Strongbow, tried the much raved about Armagh Cider and much preferred Stonewell, ok its extortionate but i reckon its worth it. Went to the craftbeer festival in the rds in Sept with a few mates and they all loved Stonewell and Tom Crean larger.

FYP

bamboozle

grenache wrote: »

FYP

€3.50 for a shot of coffee in hot water from Starbucks is extortionate, €5.50 for a bottle of Corona in Cafe en Seine is extortionate, €5.20 for a bottle of crafted Irish cider is not.

BeerNut

grenache wrote: »

But the wine you buy here is produced outside of Ireland, and is thus subject to extra taxes such as import duty.

Except for wine from minor wine producing countries like France, Italy and Spain where no import duty is payable in Ireland Yes, wine has high excise duty payable, but it's significant for cider too, and craft cider makers don't get the rebate that allows our microbreweries to survive.

My point really is that cider is much closer to wine than beer, in terms of both its production and the tax regime imposed on it.

What would be a fair, non-extortionate, price for a 50cl bottle of cider, and what's that number based on?

Tazz T

bamboozle wrote: »

€3.50 for a shot of coffee in hot water from Starbucks is extortionate, €5.50 for a bottle of Corona in Cafe en Seine is extortionate, €5.20 for a bottle of crafted Irish cider is not.

5.20 from an offy or in a pub?

enda1

BeerNut wrote: »

Except for wine from minor wine producing countries like France, Italy and Spain where no import duty is payable in Ireland Yes, wine has high excise duty payable, but it's significant for cider too, and craft cider makers don't get the rebate that allows our microbreweries to survive.

My point really is that cider is much closer to wine than beer, in terms of both its production and the tax regime imposed on it.

What would be a fair, non-extortionate, price for a 50cl bottle of cider, and what's that number based on?

Well you'll struggle to pay more than €3.00 in France from a producer for 75cl's of beautifully corked cider nirvana. So there must be a hell of a high amount of tax on the product here to justify such a price!!

grenache

BeerNut wrote: »

Except for wine from minor wine producing countries like France, Italy and Spain where no import duty is payable in Ireland Yes, wine has high excise duty payable, but it's significant for cider too, and craft cider makers don't get the rebate that allows our microbreweries to survive.

My point really is that cider is much closer to wine than beer, in terms of both its production and the tax regime imposed on it.

What would be a fair, non-extortionate, price for a 50cl bottle of cider, and what's that number based on?

For a quality cider like Stonewell I would say no more than €3.20 max. I think this RRP would allow the average offy to make a 50-70% margin of profit on it. By charging €4+, they are almost being counter productive. Less is more.

BeerNut

grenache wrote: »

By charging €4+, they are almost being counter productive.

But what if that price reflects what it costs to make?

grenache

BeerNut wrote: »

But what if that price reflects what it costs to make?

If it costs that much to make, they clearly need to ask their bank for a bigger business loan.

BeerNut

Not sure I understand that. To buy more apples?

I still don't get why €4 isn't an acceptable price for a local artisan product but €3.20 might be. What is this being benchmarked against?

schemingbohemia

grenache wrote: »

If it costs that much to make, they clearly need to ask their bank for a bigger business loan.

I'm thinking Economics aren't a specialist subject of yours.:rolleyes:

grenache

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I'm thinking Economics aren't a specialist subject of yours.:rolleyes:

Would you care to explain why, rather than being condescending?

Never heard of economies of scale?!

schemingbohemia

Yes I have heard of economies of scale, why thank you.

I've also heard of people losing their houses because they over-extended their borrowings, have you noticed there's a recession on?

How much extra borrowing would you think they'd have to do to ensure that you got the cider at the price you wish to pay for it? Now, figure out how many other people they would need to buy their cider at this reduced price to meet the costs of the borrowing and that's apart from making any sort of a profit.

If you think their cider is too expensive and not worth it, don't buy it, but don't tell them how to run their business from a position of pure ignorance.

the beer revolu

schemingbohemia wrote: »

, but don't tell them how to run their business from a position of pure ignorance.

Easy, tiger.

Lyaiera

grenache wrote: »

Would you care to explain why, rather than being condescending?

Never heard of economies of scale?!

I've talked to the owner of Stonewell. Tax is the biggest reason for the high price, including the fact that they don't get the same allowances as beer microbrewers. He maintains that it's because cider has been seen as the crappy drink teenagers chug in fields and no-one has cared to argue for it before. Bulmers didn't give a damn about it because they produced so much of it at such ridiculously cheap prices (because of the ingredients) that the tax was actually a benefit to them, keeping smaller, better producers out of the market.

The Stonewell guy says even if he was producing the same amount as Bulmers (which is impossible as there are literally not enough of the type of apples he uses grown in Ireland) then he still couldn't sell at the same or even near the price Bulmers do because of the amount and quality of ingredients he uses. He said he has no intention of competing with Bulmers anyway and sees himself as a premium producer. And I'd agree, his is a quality cider, not fizzy chemical, apple flavoured sugar water.